Learning Japanese

[Vexx]

He might be reading Spice and Wolf.... I'm hearing the wolf-goddess in that one uses a dialect popular in the pleasure quarters of town during the Edo period.
(an interesting choice for a harvest/fertility goddess if true).

I've not gotten a hold of the novels yet to verify though... so consider that speculative.

[tripperazn]

Originally Posted by Vexx

He might be reading Spice and Wolf.... I'm hearing the wolf-goddess in that one uses a dialect popular in the pleasure quarters of town during the Edo period.
(an interesting choice for a harvest/fertility goddess if true).

I've not gotten a hold of the novels yet to verify though... so consider that speculative.

I only wish my Japanese was good enough to read a light novel, I have enough trouble with shounen manga. So far, I haven't heard this "zamasu" from Horo in the anime.

The context is a radio talk show between two seiyuu (Kugimiya Rie and Shiraishi Ryouko from Hayate no Gotoku). Kugimiya used it about twice in the 20 min segment, I lost count of how many times Shiraishi did though (it was a lot, sometimes 5 times within about 10 seconds).

You get hits for Lucky Star because it was used by Konata in the intro for the first part of the series. This is the first thing you hear in the entire show:

Konata: 始まるざますよ！

[Vexx]

Believe me, at my current 'level' -- I don't read anything without dictionary and other aids in hand ... and frequently I'll have to dissect a sentence or the kanji combos with some head scratching. Bull-headed stubbornness is my most common tool.

[Tri-ring]

Originally Posted by Vexx

He might be reading Spice and Wolf.... I'm hearing the wolf-goddess in that one uses a dialect popular in the pleasure quarters of town during the Edo period.
(an interesting choice for a harvest/fertility goddess if true).

I've not gotten a hold of the novels yet to verify though... so consider that speculative.

For those of you who are wondering what "Zamasu" is, it's just a speech quirk probably originating from Fujiko Fujio.
You hear alot of it from the mother of Suneo in "Doraemon" and Dracula of "Kaibutu-kun" (that's where Lucky Star picked it up).

As for Horo's usage of "Oiran kotoba" within the novels, yes it is a fact, one of the reason why it became a best seller.

[tripperazn]

Originally Posted by Vexx

frequently I'll have to dissect a sentence or the kanji combos with some head scratching

Haha, a feeling I know only all too well

Originally Posted by Tri-ring

For those of you who are wondering what "Zamasu" is, it's just a speech quirk probably originating from Fujiko Fujio.
You hear alot of it from the mother of Suneo in "Doraemon" and Dracula of "Kaibutu-kun" (that's where Lucky Star picked it up).

As for Horo's usage of "Oiran kotoba" within the novels, yes it is a fact, one of the reason why it became a best seller.

Ah, thanks Tri-Ring. Though it seems kind of out of place for a seiyuu nowadays...

Wait, how does the use of "Oiran Kotoba" make Spice and Wolf popular, is it that appealing? I mean, there is a sultry feel to it when Koshimizu Ami does it (I mostly attributed that to Horo being Horo before), but I can't imagine that translating into text.

[Vexx]

Its the words and conjugations themselves that appear to be a turn-on of sorts... english just doesn't have grammatical constructs to do this sort of thing other than metaphorical things like "that looks sweet and juicy".... O.o.

[tripperazn]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Its the words and conjugations themselves that appear to be a turn-on of sorts... english just doesn't have grammatical constructs to do this sort of thing other than metaphorical things like "that looks sweet and juicy".... O.o.

Sexual innuendo? Does anyone have an example? This is something I'd really like to see.

[Vexx]

Hmmm, here's the only thing I've run across:
http://books.google.com/books?id=mXt...EnLQWI#PPP1,M1
(google books - like pdf but not - its a preview of the book with selected pages .... pgs 63, 68-69 are the relevant bits )

It was more of a case that using certain words and conjugating them in certain ways made people aware of one's status as a courtesan (and therefore possibly desirable?). I'm certainly guessing much here - but its the only rationale I've found so far.

[Tri-ring]

Originally Posted by tripperazn

Haha, a feeling I know only all too well



Ah, thanks Tri-Ring. Though it seems kind of out of place for a seiyuu nowadays...

Wait, how does the use of "Oiran Kotoba" make Spice and Wolf popular, is it that appealing? I mean, there is a sultry feel to it when Koshimizu Ami does it (I mostly attributed that to Horo being Horo before), but I can't imagine that translating into text.

It expands the imagination for the readers. As for out of date, since the setting is a wolf not having touch with the outside world for centuries I think it works perfectly.
Wolves were considered wise but fearful, by using Oiran Kotoba it gives a sense of intimacy towards Horo, the protagonist.

[nikorai]

tripperazn
I wasnt really sure my japanese was correct but I see that my idea was understood, that's nice.

私としては１９８１年にまだいなかったから、日本語を勉強してちょっと困りました
I'm not sure how to put. What I mean was that in 1981 i wasnt born yet, so it was a bit difficult for me to study japanese then.

If I'm not mistaken, nikorai is a college senior who's major is Economics and is writing a senior thesis on insurance.

そうです。私は大学院生です。論文を書くのは難しいけど、仕方ありません。
Right. Basically I'm a graduate student. Writing the thesis is really tough but there's nothing I can do about it.

About zamasu. i think it sounds sort of funny when used nowadays.
There was also a joke in Sakura taisen 3. Kayama was getting on everyone's nerves with his self-introduction which was 'yuichi kayama zansu' (especially with western style name order).

[tripperazn]

Originally Posted by nikorai

tripperazn
I wasnt really sure my japanese was correct but I see that my idea was understood, that's nice.

私としては１９８１年にまだいなかったから、日本語を勉強してちょっと困りました
I'm not sure how to put. What I mean was that in 1981 i wasnt born yet, so it was a bit difficult for me to study japanese then.


Right. Basically I'm a graduate student. Writing the thesis is really tough but there's nothing I can do about it.

Your Japanese is quite clear for the most part IMO.

いなかった means that you didn't "exist" back in 1981. Wouldn't it be more precise to say 生まれなかった?

Sorry about that, in all the languages I know the topic of graduate study and the college major uses different terms, I didn't think that 専門 would carry over. Good luck!

[richvh]

Originally Posted by nikorai

tripperazn
I wasnt really sure my japanese was correct but I see that my idea was understood, that's nice.

私としては１９８１年にまだいなかったから、日本語を勉強してちょっと困りました
I'm not sure how to put. What I mean was that in 1981 i wasnt born yet, so it was a bit difficult for me to study japanese then.

I'd suggest １９８１年には私がまだ生まれたから、その頃日本語の勉強はちょっと難しい or something along those lines.

[nikorai]

tripperazn

Your Japanese is quite clear for the most part IMO.

Oh, sounds reassuring.

, in all the languages I know the topic of graduate study and the college major uses different terms

Yes indeed, during english and french classes we specifically studied the terms.
Actually, at first I didnt want to specify. I treated 専門 as speciality.
But anyway thanks for your comment and support.
So in japanese, a person who's graduated would be 卒業生?
After that it's 博士.

richvh
thank you for corrections. Indeed your variant sounds more natural.

[Tri-ring]

Originally Posted by richvh

I'd suggest １９８１年には私がまだ生まれたから、その頃日本語の勉強はちょっと難しい or something along those lines.

1981年には私はまだ生まれていませんでしたのでその頃日本語を勉強することはちょっと難しいですね。
Would be better.

If you gain a PH.D degree then it will be 博士, a master degree will be 修士

[onehp]

このかんじは方法の何ですか　(how did I do? it was "what does this kanji mean?")

Spoiler for 漢字:

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How can I say that there is something that can do something exists in Japanese. . . such as

"Is there a robot that can walk" (going to try to translate it to Japanese) =?> 歩きのロボトがありますか　(i used a gerund)


And a verb or personal feelings on it

"Is there a robot that can walk which I will like"　=?> すきの歩きのロボトがありますか (where should I put the "suki"?)
"Is there a robot that can walk which I will destroy" =?> 歩きのロボトを破壊するがありますか

私のエッラーを正していますに私が開いたな　("I am open to corrections on my errors")

[Tri-ring]

Originally Posted by onehp

このかんじは方法の何ですか　(how did I do? "what does this kanji mean?")

Spoiler for 漢字:

-

-

-

How can I say that there is something that can do something exists in Japanese. . . such as

"Is there a robot that can walk" =?> 歩きのロボトがありますか　(i used a gerund)


And a verb or personal feelings on it

"Is there a robot that can walk which I will like"　=?> すきの歩きのロボトがありますか (where should I put the "suki"?)
"Is there a robot that can walk which I will destroy" =?> 歩きのロボトを破壊するがありますか

私のエッラーを正しますがいい　("I am open to corrections on my errors")

For the kanji most of the balance is off.
I think the sequential order of strokes are out of order.
As for Japanese translation;
歩くロボットはありますか。
６ variation for ある(く)　is き　未然形(future tense)　き　連用形(infinitive tense) く　終止形(predicative tense)　く　連体形(adnominal tense)　け　已然形(assumptive tense)　け　命令形(imperative tense)

私が好きになる歩くロボットはありますか。
Which is a little strange since no body knows your taste before hand.
You can't omit yourself(私) out of the sentence since "I" is the subject for the verb "like".

The next sentence I was not able to comperhend since it is out of text.

Last should be;
(私の）間違いを正してください。or 間違いを正していただけませんか。
In this case "I" can be omitted since it is obvious.

[richvh]

Tri-ring: Wouldn't it be 歩けるロボット? Or is there a reason you wouldn't use the potential form in this context? Also, isn't the 未然形 of 歩く 歩か, not 歩き? Finally, isn't 直して rather than 正して normally used in this context? 正す, as I understand it, is what a tailor does to an outfit, not what a teacher does to homework.

one-hp:

このかんじは方法の何ですか　(how did I do? it was "what does this kanji mean?")

I think you meant, この漢字の意味は何ですか。 What you wrote comes out as "This kanji is a method of what?"

Treating the kanji as stand-alone words, the top one is ととけ, "report", the second isn't a word by itself, but is part of the verb おく "to put", the third is はな "nose", and the last is ちっそく "suffocate"

[Tri-ring]

Originally Posted by richvh

Tri-ring: Wouldn't it be 歩けるロボット? Or is there a reason you wouldn't use the potential form in this context? Also, isn't the 未然形 of 歩く 歩か, not 歩き? Finally, isn't 直して rather than 正して normally used in this context? 正す, as I understand it, is what a tailor does to an outfit, not what a teacher does to homework.

I guess it is か for 未然形. haven't done this in a long time.

歩けるロボット will translate to, a robot that has abilities to walk, but to keep it simple I simply choosed to translate a robot that walks.

正す means "to correct(矯正）" like 姿勢を正す、so 間違いを正す will have the same effect. The translation of 直す is "to fix（修理）" like PCを直す so in context 間違いを直してください。 will also be correct.

[Nagato]

Originally Posted by onehp

"Is there a robot that can walk which I will like"　=?> すきの歩きのロボトがありますか (where should I put the "suki"?)
"Is there a robot that can walk which I will destroy" =?> 歩きのロボトを破壊するがありますか

私のエッラーを正していますに私が開いたな　("I am open to corrections on my errors")

How about these
1.私が好きになるような歩くロボットはありますか。
2.私が壊すことになるような歩くロボットはありますか。

Like Tri-ring said, it's a little strange, unless you talk to your close friend, etc who knows your personality very well.

For me, 歩くロボット sounds more natural than 歩けるロボット. Like 飛ぶ妖怪 than 飛べる妖怪, etc. まぁ、飛ぶ妖怪といえば、飛べるとわかるしな。

[nikorai]

Tri-ring
>>1981年には私はまだ生まれていませんでしたのでその頃日本語を勉強することはちょっと難しいですね 。
Would be better.

Awesome. That's what I needed. Thanks a lot.
Also thanks for informing me about masters and ph.d. equivalents.

for onehp
The replies above are of real help. richvh, Tri-ring, and Nagato provided great examples and grammar comments.