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View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 18 Rating
Perfect 10 199 69.58%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 64 22.38%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 15 5.24%
7 out of 10 : Good 4 1.40%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 0.70%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 0.70%
Voters: 286. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-02-10, 18:43   Link #361
DJ_RockmanX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_moon View Post
Controlling her actions...

She is following orders to complete a mission.
She gets bored
She notices a group of people having fun
It irritates her
She blows them up

Where is the control in that?

*edit*
Just in case you are defending her because you like her, I'd like to point out it is okay to love a crazy person. Just realise that they are crazy!
That's not mental instability then. It's a lack of self-control as a so-called "soldier".

And let him love his crazy woman. She is quite attractive by my standards, as demented as she acts.
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Old 2008-02-10, 18:44   Link #362
wtfftw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_moon View Post
Controlling her actions...

She is following orders to complete a mission.
She gets bored
She notices a group of people having fun
It irritates her
She blows them up

Where is the control in that?

*edit*
Just in case you are defending her because you like her, I'd like to point out it is okay to love a crazy person. Just realise that they are crazy!
i changed my post bro cuz its the mind not the body sorry bout that bro i saw it after you posted

BTW actually i dont feel as much for her. I think her bro is a better char imo and graham but i geuss its just my "whatever the hell" post seems to attract Neena haters:S.

Geuss what i want her to die now too lol happy?
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Old 2008-02-10, 18:52   Link #363
Pandalax
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The ending part was AWESOME...this series is really turning into something special.

Scenes of Code Geass 2 at the end made it that much sweeter too.
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Old 2008-02-10, 18:53   Link #364
X207
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saiji and louise could still patch things up a bit given he doesnt get the sudden urge to pilot an MS. they'll probably start with that in the next 1-2 eps.
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Old 2008-02-10, 18:54   Link #365
grey_moon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX View Post
That's not mental instability then. It's a lack of self-control as a so-called "soldier".

And let him love his crazy woman. She is quite attractive by my standards, as demented as she acts.
Soldier can't be used. For starters she fired on non-combatants, that makes her a war criminal if you want to go there. If they did court martial her and she tells them why she did it, they would say she is NUTS (replace with scientific term).

Self-control... Well the thing is a healthy stable person in society and society being the group that determines what is normal and what is mad. Even if she had cause to get really mad, for example the evil wench getting married stole her bloke . If she did take that anger and then blow up the wedding she would be at the very least be categorised by society as mad with anger. In her case she got slightly irritated. What would she do if she actually got pissed? For example every one on the news is calling her actions those of a mad man.


Unfortunately in this case and others madness is just a term used by the majority of the population to label those who do not think in the same way as the rest. Sometimes a person can be quite happily mad and not affect anyone, others can do well in society (the social paths who are CEOs and multimillionaires), but as soon as they kill a group of people on the whim, then that is just wrong. I'm sorry to say but thinking that their actions are cool or fine is just

*edit*

@wtfftw - Actually I want her defanged and given help
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Old 2008-02-10, 18:55   Link #366
Chase
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lmao @ Neena saying "Just Die" and then telling her brother "i hit the wrong switch". Cold as ice.lol.
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Old 2008-02-10, 18:57   Link #367
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Hey you guys help me choose.
Shinsen=better translations
Nyoro=better quality

which one???
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Old 2008-02-10, 18:59   Link #368
Terrestrial Dream
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This episode deserves freaking 10, my god what a great episode. This episode has made all those annoying Louise and Saji moment worthwhile (especially the ring part), and well let's see how the writer will take it further. And what a difference a episode could make, my love for Nena is gone and my respect for Graham has just went up, the way Graham fought was very impressive, to fight until he would cough up blood. And the ending with cliffhanger, loved it. It should be very interesting to see how Setsuna's action will affect the relationship between the CB.
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Old 2008-02-10, 18:59   Link #369
MikeMania
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or menclave=better both
but -speed lately
however+they will improve
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Old 2008-02-10, 19:00   Link #370
Chase
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NarutoFreak1 View Post
Hey you guys help me choose.
Shinsen=better translations
Nyoro=better quality

which one???
Shinsen imo, Conclave-Mendoi is the best but they have been slow lately due to some stuff going on.
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Old 2008-02-10, 19:01   Link #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase View Post
Shinsen imo, Conclave-Mendoi is the best but they have been slow lately due to some stuff going on.
Yeah but Shinsen doesn't give out that HD quality that Gundam 00 is suppose to have.
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Old 2008-02-10, 19:02   Link #372
wtfftw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_moon View Post
Soldier can't be used. For starters she fired on non-combatants, that makes her a war criminal if you want to go there. If they did court martial her and she tells them why she did it, they would say she is NUTS (replace with scientific term).

Self-control... Well the thing is a healthy stable person in society and society being the group that determines what is normal and what is mad. Even if she had cause to get really mad, for example the evil wench getting married stole her bloke . If she did take that anger and then blow up the wedding she would be at the very least be categorised by society as mad with anger. In her case she got slightly irritated. What would she do if she actually got pissed? For example every one on the news is calling her actions those of a mad man.


Unfortunately in this case and others madness is just a term used by the majority of the population to label those who do not think in the same way as the rest. Sometimes a person can be quite happily mad and not affect anyone, others can do well in society (the social paths who are CEOs and multimillionaires), but as soon as they kill a group of people on the whim, then that is just wrong. I'm sorry to say but thinking that their actions are cool or fine is just

*edit*

@wtfftw - Actually I want her defanged and given help
I doubt it is going to go to a trial cuz she either be killed of or will have to like fight the rest of her life in a cockpit.

I would love to see some shady characters to remain alive though cuz its so stereo typical to see bad guys die thats it gets boring(for me) i mean if neena remained alive to the end of the show it would be like wow. At least then i know there will be a season 2 more fun for me


BTW i dont understand how you say soldier cant be used but talk about court martial. In fact i doubt they have a rules of engagement simply because they are not a country and that term meister at least for me seems to indicate that they should have some kind of moral principles and stuff though it its not the case with the thrones though

@Terrestrial Dream the cliffhanger was the most hard part for me cuz i was like NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO >.>
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Old 2008-02-10, 19:11   Link #373
grey_moon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfftw View Post
BTW i dont understand how you say soldier cant be used but talk about court martial. In fact i doubt they have a rules of engagement simply because they are not a country and that term meister at least for me seems to indicate that they should have some kind of moral principles and stuff though it its not the case with the thrones though
Hmmmm well it isn't wearing a uniform that dictates being a soldier in my book.

First you have to be in a org that has declared war on another. Even though the watcher dudes declared them as valid CBs, but we don't actually know that they are. They are actually acting more like a terrorist cell. Very good tactic unfortunately for everyone trying to understand or stop them.

Then there is the whole non-combatant thing, sure if you follow Saddam Hussain's rules of engagement, then anyone who pisses you off would be a valid target.

For the original CBs then sure they seem to be bound (loosely) by some form of moral code, but for the new ones, it is hinted that they have an hidden agenda which is not eradicating war. So far they have:
Shot on a wedding (okay actions of one)
Blew up a whole base to stop hidden agenda from being revealed (okay they might not know the reason for that mission)
Blew up a arms factory that is full of civilians...

Apart from Neena's actions they could be said to be eradicating war, but the way they have carried out their actions and the hints that we are being given says they are up to something different from CB.

The scene of someone salvaging/stealing Haro senior says to me that they are not actually CB, but a wannabe. In that case, then they are not actually a part of CB and have not declared war and therefore are terrorists.
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Old 2008-02-10, 19:11   Link #374
DJ_RockmanX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_moon View Post
Soldier can't be used. For starters she fired on non-combatants, that makes her a war criminal if you want to go there. If they did court martial her and she tells them why she did it, they would say she is NUTS (replace with scientific term).
Hence why the word soldier is in quotations and is preceded by the phrase "so-called".

She is indeed a war criminal at this point, along with her warmongering siblings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_moon View Post
Self-control... Well the thing is a healthy stable person in society and society being the group that determines what is normal and what is mad. Even if she had cause to get really mad, for example the evil wench getting married stole her bloke . If she did take that anger and then blow up the wedding she would be at the very least be categorised by society as mad with anger. In her case she got slightly irritated. What would she do if she actually got pissed? For example every one on the news is calling her actions those of a mad man.

Unfortunately in this case and others madness is just a term used by the majority of the population to label those who do not think in the same way as the rest. Sometimes a person can be quite happily mad and not affect anyone, others can do well in society (the social paths who are CEOs and multimillionaires), but as soon as they kill a group of people on the whim, then that is just wrong. I'm sorry to say but thinking that their actions are cool or fine is just
You're right in that there's no justification for an unprovoked attack with the reasoning that she was "bored" and maybe "irritated". But for a "soldier" who has killed many and has become callus to the loss of human life, the thought process is definitely no longer the same as a normal person by society's standards. Maybe sociopath is the correct term for this act of treating people as nothing more than objects, but I don't really know. All I can say is that by the standards established for the Throne pilots, she was thinking "straight" and merely demonstrated a lack of discipline.
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Old 2008-02-10, 19:18   Link #375
Dean_the_Young
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfftw View Post
I doubt it is going to go to a trial cuz she either be killed of or will have to like fight the rest of her life in a cockpit.
Likely killed. CB has shown no hesitance in killing threats; Tieria drew on Setsuna for merely risking a Solar Furnace.
Quote:
I would love to see some shady characters to remain alive though cuz its so stereo typical to see bad guys die thats it gets boring(for me) i mean if neena remained alive to the end of the show it would be like wow. At least then i know there will be a season 2 more fun for me
If you consider the bored slaughter of innocents or the threatening of unwilling love interests fun, well...

Quote:
BTW i dont understand how you say soldier cant be used but talk about court martial. In fact i doubt they have a rules of engagement simply because they are not a country and that term meister at least for me seems to indicate that they should have some kind of moral principles and stuff though it its not the case with the thrones though
They do; it was listed in the first episode. "Celestial Being will not intervene for its own gain, but will only do so to defeat conflict, etc. etc." Considering that the first intervention of the Thrones was manifestly for CB's own gain, and Neena's own action was not for the elimination of warfare, she broke Schenberg's guaranteed to humanity.

There's also the consideration of changing policies for no practice. The way the Meisters destroy the source of conflict, while the Thrones destroy the means of conflict, is very telling. Allelujah cirles over drug fields for half an hour, allowing workers to flee before he bombs them. Casualties: 0, and one of the sources of conflict (fighting over the drugs produced) is eliminated. Johann attacks a munitions plant: no warning, over 800 die, and no conflict has been solved (though the US's means to fight are reduced, but that only hurts the ability to wage war on a nation-scale, not lower scales).

So, really, the Thrones expanded the conflict for little to no reason, and against Schenberg's declaration. Neena especially could be courtmarshalled and convicted of going against Celestial Being's public mission statement.
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Old 2008-02-10, 19:22   Link #376
grey_moon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX View Post
Hence why the word soldier is in quotations and is preceded by the phrase "so-called".

She is indeed a war criminal at this point, along with her warmongering siblings.
Ah I missed the subtle sarcasm

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX View Post
Maybe sociopath is the correct term for this act of treating people as nothing more than objects, but I don't really know. All I can say is that by the standards established for the Throne pilots, she was thinking "straight" and merely demonstrated a lack of discipline.
Social paths who kill a large group of people on a whim in my books are crazy.

A person who has been trained to a point that they have no concern for civilians is mad product of a mad system. Sure some people might dub them as holy warriors or crusaders, but I call them mad.

You are right in pointing out that the Throne pilots don't seem to care about civilians, which is quite nicely demonstrated by her brothers lack of concern of her "mis-fire". But that isn't an excuse to justify the actions of a mass murderer. If her brother ordered her to do it, then he would be in the blame (still would not excuse Neena), if her mission dictated to her to do it, then her superiors would be wrong (still does not excuse Neena), if God was telling her to do it then he/she would be wrong (still does not excuse Neena). See the general pattern, her action cannot be excused.
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Old 2008-02-10, 19:23   Link #377
wtfftw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX View Post
Hence why the word soldier is in quotations and is preceded by the phrase "so-called".

She is indeed a war criminal at this point, along with her warmongering siblings.



You're right in that there's no justification for an unprovoked attack with the reasoning that she was "bored" and maybe "irritated". But for a "soldier" who has killed many and has become callus to the loss of human life, the thought process is definitely no longer the same as a normal person by society's standards. Maybe sociopath is the correct term for this act of treating people as nothing more than objects, but I don't really know. All I can say is that by the standards established for the Throne pilots, she was thinking "straight" and merely demonstrated a lack of discipline.
I see it the same i view her action as on a whim. Too call her a maniac psycho bitch is for me far fetched. I also dont condone her action just that it doenst strike me as if she was mentally unstable as people seem to argue.

@grey_moon i know about the whole hidden agenda but im very critical in what i get to see. Like forexample setsuna's action is also a bad one.

but the thing is you said cant be called a soldier cuz thats was for me like huh? Because after that you do account her as a soldier. I rather see them as a rouge organization, terrorists, vigilantes or whatever.

If they are to be regarded as soldier then they could be excused for their actions by their leader for example. But i geuss in the meisters cases throne and setsuna crew they will be trialed by another kind of internation court if they are caught.

btw we aint excusing her dude

@Dean_the_Young I disagree with you interfene for the own gain cuz what do you want them to do hand over gundam cuz if they didnt interfene it would be their own gain. Self gain for me would mean they would try to make money or make extra profits with their gundams by helping certain countries if what you said was true they could better hand over the gundams when they ar ein a pinch cuz if they helped themself it would be self gain?

I dont have a real opinion now as the stopry can go anyway but if you look at how they handle it from a strategic point i got to say that the throne interfention is definitly better. In both cases you present the world can react. For me it did not look as if they stopped the source. they merely took out sides that were fighting each other. They did not kill leader or generals or bases. Thats not taking out the source. The throne is taking out the source by taking out every fighting capability and also leader Eifman who was researching them.

If only the 4 was in the picture now Eifman had the truth behind their power source and that would result in counter measures. Who handled that the thrones. How much fighting capability has the US and do you seriously believe the US would not stop making mobile suits?

Thats the big if i cant say that but i doubt the US is gonna do as CB says. They might not attack but when they have the chance theyw ill take out CB the moment they can. The Throne case they will have to kill out all the fighting capability and they seem to be reducing the US/italian force pretty hard.

I mean if you watch how the leaders of HRL/EAU/Union reacted you got to say they got it handed to em. I think both of the 2 groups did good in reducing war though. But i do think that killing off so many soldier after each other will only bring more strife in the end.

Last edited by wtfftw; 2008-02-10 at 19:41.
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Old 2008-02-10, 19:33   Link #378
squaresphere
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Great ep, of course the high light is Graham schooling the throne. Seems like the Flag can actually go even faster but it's the pilot that can't take it.

The Saji/Louise thing was tragic but it really ties into the over story plus lets us know without a doubt the Thrones are bad news for everyone.

While I do think Saji will do something for revenge, I highly doubt he'll be the 2nd coming of Char (that would be Graham... with out the lolicon :P). More likely since he's an engineering student, it wouldn't be far fetch if he's the one that comes up with a break through that helps level off the playing field against the Gundams. Well, in coordination with Billy or someone like that. Actually, all the Union needs is some sort of tech that could help the pilot resist more G's. Having Saji help come up with some new type of G suit would be great and not completely far fetched.

While I dislike the Thrones like everyone else, I do like like the fact they were included in the story. Just like Ali, they help balance out the cast so we can truly see the hero's shine.

... Ali working with the Thrones... wow that's a SCARY thought.
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Old 2008-02-10, 19:50   Link #379
SoldierOfDarkness
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If only the 4 was in the picture now Eifman had the truth behind their power source and that would result in counter measures.
Sigh. Eifman was assassinated because he was digging TOO deep into CB and their true objective.

1.He realizes that the generators can only be made using special particles. Yeah okay that's what everyone knows

2.Hence he deduced that it must've come from some place such as Jupiter. Okay now your getting too close.

Now where does that clue lead to? Oh right there were expeditions to Jupitor over 100 years ago. Hmmmmm. As Sergei pointed out, CB pretty much cut off all loose ends. Eifman just so happened to have found one and was eliminated. Much the same way as the Union pilot and Kinue would be next on the hit list (Oh is she a warmonger too?)

And geeze people, there's no justification for killing civilians no matter how you look at it. The worse case is where some guy decided to go to a mall and shoot some people simply because he was bored or on a whim. That doesn't make it okay.
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Old 2008-02-10, 19:53   Link #380
sariss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NarutoFreak1 View Post
Hey you guys help me choose.
Shinsen=better translations
Nyoro=better quality

which one???
If you want HD and don't want to wait for Conclave then go for Nyoro. But only if you can stand this much difference.

Spoiler for scene with graham:
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