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View Poll Results: Shakugan no Shana II - Episode 17 Rating
Perfect 10 7 10.61%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 10 15.15%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 25 37.88%
7 out of 10 : Good 15 22.73%
6 out of 10 : Average 7 10.61%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 3.03%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-02-11, 21:51   Link #81
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post


It's more like some sort of a phobia than rational fear, in my view. It's like, he saw his beloved got torn apart in the Fuzetsu. Sure, she healed back, and everything's fine afterwards, but he'll never be able to dissociate Fuzetsu with Oga-chan in danger ever again. To me that's more-or-less convincing.
I agree. The impression I took from Tanaka when, an episode or two back, he started screaming in terror at a frozen Ogata after a Fuzetsu had been brought up, is that Tanaka now has a phobia of Fuzetsus in general. Like yourself, I think that he now associates Fuzetsus with Ogata being in severe danger.

I actually like the twists involving Tanaka and Satou. It wasn't that long ago when Tanaka seemed to be the far more enthusiastic of the two in supporting Marjery and fighting the good fight against tomogaras. Now, however, Tanaka is leaving the Flame Haze world entirely, while Satou is moving deeper into it.


The episode as a whole felt like a filler episode to me, even if parts of it/all of it were based on the Shana novels.

But... if this is a filler episode, it's one of the better anime filler episodes that I've seen.

The "Syndonay and beasts obliterates Outlaw" opening was extremely cool, and a nice surprise for me, but after that... it just didn't feel like there was enough action to this episode.

I liked the Yuji/Shana training sessions (though it annoyed me when they skipped away from one just as it was getting good to check out Tanaka in an arcade). I really like Yuji's change in attitude.

Still, I don't like how, even now, he can't do anything more than dodge Shana or block her sword swings. I'd like him to actually knock her unto her back for a change of pace, even if it's simply through using her own kinetic force against her with a judo throw of sorts. The writers could, if they want, have her get up, and then in shocked anger knock Yuji unto his back, to reinforce how Shana is, of course, the main fighting protagonist... but just having Yuji actually show that he can seriously fight Shana would do loads for him and his character, imo.

I found the Wilhelmina flashback concerning Sabrac, and the eternal lovers, to be very informative and fun to watch. It's a great way to build up Sabrac too, of course.

All of the Tanaka/Ogata, and Tanaka/Satou, scenes in this episode where great too. I really like how the Tanaka/Ogata relationship has developed, and how the Tanaka/Satou friendship has developed.

The scenes beyond the ones that I've gone into detail in talking about though... all of those felt like they were inserted to simply fill out the necessary episode length.

So, 8/10 overall for me.
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Old 2008-02-11, 21:58   Link #82
Owaranai Destiny
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Originally Posted by Deathscyther View Post
I think that the konoe-arc ruined season 2 for most of the people. Usually there aren't many complains for decent/good 'plot advancing' episodes. But because there have been so many 'weak' episodes in the beginning, people complain very easily now.
Duly noted. I guess the expectations of having a great season with other hopes i.e. manifestation of the novel material such as the distant past with Mathilda St.Omer, or an immediate dive into the story itself probably led many to be disappointed. Considering that much of the first half of the anime was mostly anime-original, that is.

Aside from that, I would have to attribute it to the fact that SnS II has been inconsistent in dealing out exciting episodes. I get the feeling that as it gets categorized as a show with action as its main attraction, slow, developmental episodes or those which have no bearing with the storyline tend to get criticised with a few particular characters getting all the flak. Not that all of them don't deserve bits and pieces of that, but considering how popular and (if I may add) a success SnS season 1 was, expectations tend to be higher, and when people start seeing things they don't like, criticism comes first.

There's the romantic spectrum of the show as well, I suppose. Novel material or not, Kazumi's role has been cheapened in that she hasn't been given a way to be more involved in the 'love triangle' after her declaration of war in the last season. Rather than just having an annoying character for people to hate, I thought it might be poor handling of a character on the part of the producers instead.

The entire season so far is inconsistent, I would say, but the better episodes were excellent, while I try not to bash 'slow' episodes unneccessarily.

@_DaViD_: Come to think of it...Drell was a Flame Haze too, unless his abilities at sensing POE are average at best or Metamorphosis has an ability to hide his own POE well enough, he should have sensed Sydonay coming. Anyone care to answer? (Forgive me if this was already answered earlier, since I haven't had the time to flip through all the pages)
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Old 2008-02-11, 22:10   Link #83
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Due to Yuji's analytical mind, he has the potential to become an extremely powerful warrior. And once he learns how to do spells to, he'll be a magic swordsman, which is totally wicked.
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Old 2008-02-11, 22:20   Link #84
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I can totally imagine Friagne fapping to fetishist pr0n.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R
I actually like the twists involving Tanaka and Satou. It wasn't that long ago when Tanaka seemed to be the far more enthusiastic of the two in supporting Marjery and fighting the good fight against tomogaras. Now, however, Tanaka is leaving the Flame Haze world entirely, while Satou is moving deeper into it.
Yay, somebody agree with me for once!

Although, I always got the opposite impression in the Tanaka-Satou angle: it always appeared to me that Satou was always the more involved one. It's his house Margery was staying; he was the one who first tried to lift that Big Sword; and he interacted more with our hero than Tanaka -- and that's not counting the more obvious hints in Season 2.
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Old 2008-02-12, 00:42   Link #85
The Real Nemo
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Still, I don't like how, even now, he can't do anything more than dodge Shana or block her sword swings. I'd like him to actually knock her unto her back for a change of pace, even if it's simply through using her own kinetic force against her with a judo throw of sorts. The writers could, if they want, have her get up, and then in shocked anger knock Yuji unto his back, to reinforce how Shana is, of course, the main fighting protagonist... but just having Yuji actually show that he can seriously fight Shana would do loads for him and his character, imo.
Eh, this is Shana we're talking about. She's been trained for combat practically since she was born, I think it's still too soon to expect Yuji to be that good. Just the fact that he was able to disarm her for a moment is impressive enough IMO, even that caught me by surprise.
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Old 2008-02-12, 01:59   Link #86
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The sad part is... it seems that Shana don't want Badass Yuji >_>
lol yeah! it seems to be like that xD! shana wants to keep pwning yuji
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Old 2008-02-12, 03:20   Link #87
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There's the romantic spectrum of the show as well, I suppose. Novel material or not, Kazumi's role has been cheapened in that she hasn't been given a way to be more involved in the 'love triangle' after her declaration of war in the last season. Rather than just having an annoying character for people to hate, I thought it might be poor handling of a character on the part of the producers instead.
The 'romantic spectrum' in this season thus far has been garbage. In fact, there hasn't been anything remotely romantic this season worth noting outside of Tanaka and Ogata. When the first epsidode resets the character development of the entire season that came before it, well that's just a clear sign that they don't have a bloody clue what they're doing.

I was so happy to see where Shana and Yuji had gotten before that I end up mad and frustrated at the constant failed attempts of 'romance' that were thrown at us at the start of this season. I lost count of how many times Yoshida and Shana were plastered to the panes of the school's windows watching Yuji walking with Konoe, or the incessant need to repeat the lines Yuji's dad gave them as a pep talk, or Yoshida and Shana constantly acknowledging the other as a 'love rival'.

It's so horrendously bloody obvious that Yoshida doesn't have a chance in hell with Yuji no matter what she does. Fine, go ahead and like the character, cheer her on all you want, but in the end you know it's all for nothing because Yuji and Shana's relationship with one another is far more worthwhile, and Yoshida has never been anything more then a footnote to the entire ordeal since the very start of the first season. At best she served her purpose as something to stir up jealousy for Shana, but again that's helping develop Shana's character. Yoshida's pretty much been a plot device from the start (who stopped working 15 episodes ago).

Thank god Pheles gave her that cross (which apparently came with a pre-requisite of 50 flashbacks of her telling Yoshida what it's to be used for and what it really means to use it), because not only do I have the glimmer of hope that Yoshida will be written out of the story, but it actually gives her a reason to be there! Her showing up to the meeting Pheles was absurdly selfish, my forehead had handmarks from me slapping it too much while watching.

Bah.
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Old 2008-02-12, 05:35   Link #88
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I mite just be stupid but does that little scene of Yoshida (recapping on the hogu) actually significant (since it's feels kinda repetitive)
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Old 2008-02-12, 07:06   Link #89
Owaranai Destiny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Chibi View Post
The 'romantic spectrum' in this season thus far has been garbage. In fact, there hasn't been anything remotely romantic this season worth noting outside of Tanaka and Ogata. When the first epsidode resets the character development of the entire season that came before it, well that's just a clear sign that they don't have a bloody clue what they're doing

I was so happy to see where Shana and Yuji had gotten before that I end up mad and frustrated at the constant failed attempts of 'romance' that were thrown at us at the start of this season. I lost count of how many times Yoshida and Shana were plastered to the panes of the school's windows watching Yuji walking with Konoe, or the incessant need to repeat the lines Yuji's dad gave them as a pep talk, or Yoshida and Shana constantly acknowledging the other as a 'love rival'.
You know, I never did say the 'romance' aspect of SnS was good. On the other hand, you can prove me wrong by quoting any post in which I said otherwise...provided you can find it in this sub-forum.

See, the thing is I don't bother to let it get to me that the relationship is going nowhere, because I'm confident that the Yuuji and Shana pairing is the most probable due to their existence as those of being 'non-human' and I can't really see how it is possible to reverse the whole situation such that Kazumi actually has an advantage.

Quote:
It's so horrendously bloody obvious that Yoshida doesn't have a chance in hell with Yuji no matter what she does. Fine, go ahead and like the character, cheer her on all you want, but in the end you know it's all for nothing because Yuji and Shana's relationship with one another is far more worthwhile, and Yoshida has never been anything more then a footnote to the entire ordeal since the very start of the first season. At best she served her purpose as something to stir up jealousy for Shana, but again that's helping develop Shana's character. Yoshida's pretty much been a plot device from the start (who stopped working 15 episodes ago).
See? This is what I meant. Blind hatred. The moment someone tries to consider the possibilities of her as a character, people like you grab hold of this opportunity to bash. When was it explicitly stated that I like Yoshida Kazumi? The only reason why I consider her character being poorly handled is due to there being no follow-up to her current situation after her declaration of her not wanting to lose at the end of Season 1. There were no opportunities for her and no turn of events that allowed her to be on 'equal' standing in the world of the Guze. This might actually be a little more useful than having all those Konoe episodes (which I consider essential, but not so much as to waste several episodes on it).

To defend myself (in a way), I have even considered Kazumi's repetitive monologue to be getting tiring, something that I had not stated explicitly since I didn't let it bother me.
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Old 2008-02-12, 09:14   Link #90
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Id be careful about all the Yoshida hate we dont know whats coming and the min we start to think we know something the unexpected happens. Nothing is for sure yet nothing has been clearly stated about "I like or dislike Yoshida". Lets just wait and see what happens. I am tired of her repetitive dialog as well but i happen to think its building to something else. For all we know Shana could die in the final fight saving Yuji which could only leave Yoshida. Im not saying its going to happen but consider every possibility before just spouting out the hate. I have faith that they will take her character to a new level and get out this crappy routine shit. If she just happens to serve as a plot device well my over all impression of the show is going to lower. If your not going to use a character get rid of them. Since she has been around for so long i cant help but theorize that her roll will be bigger later on. Look at what they did to Tanaka and he is now out of the picture. Im not trying to bash anyone just saying be careful with definitive answers because you might end being disappointed. Not to mention your blood pressure have a smoke take a drink have some sex or something but just calm down its not worth getting so worked up over.
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Old 2008-02-12, 09:29   Link #91
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I don't blame Eita for his choice, but... I think he's being a little na´ve. It seems to me that he's like " If I don't get involved with this world, then nothing will happen to Oga-chan!", and clearly, that's not the case. If anyone wanted to 'kill' or 'torchify' Ogata, then they would, even if he hadn't left his Ane-san. Well, so long, Eita. I still love you!

I'm in love with Satou, forever *_*
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Old 2008-02-12, 09:54   Link #92
Grimkill7
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I don't blame Eita for his choice, but... I think he's being a little na´ve. It seems to me that he's like " If I don't get involved with this world, then nothing will happen to Oga-chan!", and clearly, that's not the case. If anyone wanted to 'kill' or 'torchify' Ogata, then they would, even if he hadn't left his Ane-san. Well, so long, Eita. I still love you!

I'm in love with Satou, forever *_*
I don't think it's exactly that though. Now that he has given up his talisman(?) he can pretty much remain ignorant to any Guze related activities. Even if Oga gets torch'd, he wouldn't know about it and his memories of her would fade as she burns out. Plus, if he isn't involved with Margery anymore, the danger surrounding him and his gf goes down considerably.

And yea, I've always liked Satou. I kind of had my hopes up that he would get contracted and become a Flame Haze.

Also, this episode needed moar Hecanoe!
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Old 2008-02-12, 12:11   Link #93
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Haha, I liked Konoe more than I ever liked Hekate
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Old 2008-02-12, 12:21   Link #94
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Originally Posted by _DaViD_ View Post
lol yeah! it seems to be like that xD! shana wants to keep pwning yuji
Progress means that Yuji would have to go further.
And it won't be long before Yuji starts picking up on his combat skill.
He at least manages to disarm her.
But he got himself distracted as Shana went in for the kill.


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Haha, I liked Konoe more than I ever liked Hekate
You'd think Yuji would say to Hecate in battle, "You're still as empty as you were before because Konoe had more of a soul than you ever will."
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Old 2008-02-12, 12:42   Link #95
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Does anyone happen to know what the year is in the anime?
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Old 2008-02-12, 14:35   Link #96
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Nice episode, hmmm I think its just at this time they don't say anything about the year
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Old 2008-02-12, 14:53   Link #97
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You'd think Yuji would say to Hecate in battle, "You're still as empty as you were before because Konoe had more of a soul than you ever will."
Ha, that would definitely save this series, especially to serenade_beta, who would probably then rate it 10/10.
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Old 2008-02-12, 15:18   Link #98
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The relationship between Tanaka and Ogata is better than anything we've experienced this season regarding the Yuji-Shana-Kazumi triangle. It definitely saved any of the romance I loved in season one.
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Old 2008-02-12, 15:46   Link #99
Whitemoon648
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I don't think it's exactly that though. Now that he has given up his talisman(?) he can pretty much remain ignorant to any Guze related activities. Even if Oga gets torch'd, he wouldn't know about it and his memories of her would fade as she burns out. Plus, if he isn't involved with Margery anymore, the danger surrounding him and his gf goes down considerably.

And yea, I've always liked Satou. I kind of had my hopes up that he would get contracted and become a Flame Haze.

Also, this episode needed moar Hecanoe!
I agree with your point. And yes he would be ignorant. He doesnt want to deal with the pain. He wouldnt have those memories. But Most of the people here are calling him smart. Some are even saying he is doing it to protect Oga-chan. and also some are defending him against people who are calling him coward.

So If we say he is chickening out, then all is good. But people are actually defending him and saying he isnt. They are calling him smart. But the fact is that he is chickening out.

Well is that a good choice? Yes. Is he not a coward? Yes he is. Is he smart? Well i think thats arguable.
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Old 2008-02-12, 16:04   Link #100
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I wasn't that surprised with Satou and Tanaka's respective choices.

I always thought that Satou, despite being quiet and dishonest (Tsundere?) was always more serious about Margery. And Tanaka... From the get go, he always saw it all as an adventure, without really realizing the dangers. Ogata getting burned was a wake-up call.
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