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Old 2008-02-06, 08:00   Link #21
billbrown
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
By request:

But you see, Shin is a "good boy". There are few things as humiliating for a teenage male to be, but it's not a matter of choice for a good boy - it's a compulsion. It all fits - the folk dancing, the conservative dress, the fairy tales with kawaii illustrations... He's a good step-brother, a good best friend, a good student, a good son. Like most GBs, what he longs for is to be a threat (and this drives much of the tension for his character) but he can't. He can no more let a girl stay stuck in a tree (even if he thinks she's nuts) than murder a puppy.

And as a good boy, what he did in Hiromi's bedroom was not a matter of choice. Of course he didn't want to tell her about Number 4 - he didn't want to talk at all. What he wanted to do was take her in his arms and kiss her, then throw her down on the bed and ravish her until they were both so weakened by thirst and hunger that they had to emerge for provisions. But he couldn't even tell her how he felt, so he did what he thought was the right thing to do - he told her the guy she said she liked thought she was cute. Because that's what a good boy would do.

Shin can't help himself - he's serially nice. Stop him before he helps again.
I woudn't call Shin's disposition humiliating more than it is plain realistic. Your average guy almost always plays the cautious route, especially with the girl he knows is "the one." Shin's just caught in the loop; Due to Hiromi's words that he overheard he believes he's been friend zoned, and hard. Something as slicing as what Shin heard is more than enough to crush most guys' spirits.

Shin very much still loves Hiromi, that much is sure. But having been cut so deep he's reserved himself to settling on the friend ladder, even though Hiromi most likely doesn't want him there. So he does what he believes is the best way to stay close to her, which is be her friend and support her in the ways he thinks is right based on what he knows.
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Old 2008-02-13, 02:23   Link #22
Grizzlybar
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My "true heart" tells me that Shin'ichiro is a limp handshake (What's up with that true heart business anyway? It's disgusting.)

This guy has no admirable qualities, and his only merit is his ability to bring out the personalities of those around him in comparison to his boring.

But the part I'm most upset about is that it's not too hard to say the same thing about me back in high school. He's someone who can be identified with and that's what makes him a great (if irritating) lead.

P.S. it's nice to know there are other students of ladder theory, most people are in denial!
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Old 2008-02-16, 13:58   Link #23
golthin
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Mr good boy does it again! Will he ever learn to try to hook people up, now Hiromi has to be misarable because of him! I am having so much fun with this show!
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Old 2008-02-17, 14:17   Link #24
Manji Midou
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Yes, blame shin for thinking he was doing what would make hiromi happy....oh but wait oops she was lying when he overheard her saying she liked number 4, she didn't mean any of the things she was going on about number 4 when she was walking home with shin, damn it all to hell shin...with ur psychic powers you should had realized she was lying.
Golthin, I don't know how you can blame anyone but hiromi for what's going on...poor victimized Hiromi she is so miserable right now...she should just come out and reject jun and clear things up...oh but wait she can't do that now can she...she rather keep on lying like the good victimized girl that she is.
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Old 2008-02-17, 14:42   Link #25
greyhawk
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Originally Posted by tripperazn View Post
I love Kyon, but he was nothing more than a foil for the other characters. He basically serves the purpose of helping the reader/viewer relate to otherwise totally alien characters. Yes, he is witty and sarcastic, but that's what he was supposed to do, nothing more.
Eh, actually, in the light novels (which you should've read already), Kyon was always the man set out to save the day. It's amazing that he just did everything merely by instinct, with little, if any, help from the other characters. Not much information about him/his past was given, at least until we met Sasaki. Anyway like u said, his endless sarcasm and philosophical arguments, sometimes paradoxical, never fail to keep me interested. Comparing any male character with him just isn't fair, he even got to travel back/forward in time, fix history and the like. But this is seriously going off-topic, isn't it?
Hmm? A man good enough for Noe? Now I wonder what that means.
Quote:
Originally Posted by billbrown
Shin very much still loves Hiromi, that much is sure. But having been cut so deep he's reserved himself to settling on the friend ladder, even though Hiromi most likely doesn't want him there. So he does what he believes is the best way to stay close to her, which is be her friend and support her in the ways he thinks is right based on what he knows.
Being a Noe's supporter, I find this statement downright hilarious. Some parts of it may hold true though, but I don't think you could call it "love" just yet. It'd need a lot more than that, true love I mean. "Affection" would be a better term I think. ShinxHiromi should be a very good match, but I'd choose Noe over her anyday
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Old 2008-02-17, 14:47   Link #26
golthin
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Originally Posted by Manji Midou View Post
Yes, blame shin for thinking he was doing what would make hiromi happy....oh but wait oops she was lying when he overheard her saying she liked number 4, she didn't mean any of the things she was going on about number 4 when she was walking home with shin, damn it all to hell shin...with ur psychic powers you should had realized she was lying.
Golthin, I don't know how you can blame anyone but hiromi for what's going on...poor victimized Hiromi she is so miserable right now...she should just come out and reject jun and clear things up...oh but wait she can't do that now can she...she rather keep on lying like the good victimized girl that she is.
I USED to blame her and hate her until episode 6. After that I can understand why she did it. She was trying very hard for a whole year to keep her feelings inside her. All her lying was for the sake of Shin. It all was for nothing as we saw in episode 6, but her lying was not for her sake, but for shin. It is true she lied, but it is still shin's fault for being a busybody, it is preven that the guy just can't help himself. That is why I place most of the fault on him, for Aiko's pain and for Hiromi's pain. Now we are going to have to add Noe's pain too, but this time he shares equal guilt with Jun.
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Old 2008-02-17, 14:51   Link #27
cloudninja
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Originally Posted by Manji Midou View Post
Yes, blame shin for thinking he was doing what would make hiromi happy....oh but wait oops she was lying when he overheard her saying she liked number 4, she didn't mean any of the things she was going on about number 4 when she was walking home with shin, damn it all to hell shin...with ur psychic powers you should had realized she was lying.
Golthin, I don't know how you can blame anyone but hiromi for what's going on...poor victimized Hiromi she is so miserable right now...she should just come out and reject jun and clear things up...oh but wait she can't do that now can she...she rather keep on lying like the good victimized girl that she is.

Hiromi has'nt appeared to be happy in any scene since Shin told her about meeting Jun in episode 5 while in her room. It should'nt take psychic abilities for Shin to at least wonder why she is'nt happy. He may not be able to figure out why but he should at least notice that she is'nt acting the way she should if she did like Jun. The girl should be happy that she's dating the guy she "likes". We get no indication that Shin notices that Hiromi is acting inconsistently with what she said about liking Jun.

Hiromi may want to reject Jun but that would raise questions from Shin. It would lead to her having to reveal that Shin is the one she really likes. With the "possibility" of being siblings hanging over them that is not a path she can take at the moment. Of course that "possibility" could be removed at a later point and the path cleared for them.
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Old 2008-02-17, 15:13   Link #28
Manji Midou
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Originally Posted by cloudninja View Post
Hiromi has'nt appeared to be happy in any scene since Shin told her about meeting Jun in episode 5 while in her room. It should'nt take psychic abilities for Shin to at least wonder why she is'nt happy. He may not be able to figure out why but he should at least notice that she is'nt acting the way she should if she did like Jun. The girl should be happy that she's dating the guy she "likes". We get no indication that Shin notices that Hiromi is acting inconsistently with what she said about liking Jun.

Hiromi may want to reject Jun but that would raise questions from Shin. It would lead to her having to reveal that Shin is the one she really likes. With the "possibility" of being siblings hanging over them that is not a path she can take at the moment. Of course that "possibility" could be removed at a later point and the path cleared for them.
Hiromi hasn't been happy at all, period, after all she is the poor victimized character of the show. She has shown shin, once that she hasn't forgotten how to smile and that was in the bathroom.The girl is basically somewhat cheery outside shin's home, shin could attribute her being sad/whatever mood she's in because of the strain of the relationship she has with his mother and not just her liking/not liking Jun. Hiromi could easily give up on Jun and tell Shin *gasp* a lie as to why she did it...it's not like it's something she's never done, by now it's a common thing for her like brushing her hair.


Meh, the last few posts have been more centered around hiromi,huh?
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Old 2008-02-17, 16:23   Link #29
cloudninja
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Originally Posted by Manji Midou View Post
Hiromi hasn't been happy at all, period, after all she is the poor victimized character of the show. She has shown shin, once that she hasn't forgotten how to smile and that was in the bathroom.The girl is basically somewhat cheery outside shin's home, shin could attribute her being sad/whatever mood she's in because of the strain of the relationship she has with his mother and not just her liking/not liking Jun. Hiromi could easily give up on Jun and tell Shin *gasp* a lie as to why she did it...it's not like it's something she's never done, by now it's a common thing for her like brushing her hair.


Meh, the last few posts have been more centered around hiromi,huh?
There was a change in the way Hiromi's acted towards Shin that lasted several episodes (3-5) leading to the beach scene so it was not a one time thing. Instead of being distant she was more cheerful and actually greeted Shin first instead of hesitantly greeting him after he did it. During that time it was'nt just outside the house but at home as well so her relationship with Shin's mother did'nt stop her from doing that much. Since Shin's talk about Jun in her room near the end of episode 5 that progress has reversed. Coincidence? Also, they were alone the couple of times they talked about Jun in episodes 5 and 6 yet her demeanor was inconsistent with liking Jun. As for the lie, she told it once at the end of episode 3. While she has not retracted it, she has also not mentioned it again so it should'nt count as multiple lies unless you want to also consider for example that Aiko has lived out a lie for a while by dating Nobuse.

You're right in that we have gotten sidetracked. It started with your earlier post about Shin and Hiromi but it has shifted more towards Hiromi about her relationship with Shin.
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Old 2008-02-17, 21:05   Link #30
golthin
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Originally Posted by cloudninja View Post
There was a change in the way Hiromi's acted towards Shin that lasted several episodes (3-5) leading to the beach scene so it was not a one time thing. Instead of being distant she was more cheerful and actually greeted Shin first instead of hesitantly greeting him after he did it. During that time it was'nt just outside the house but at home as well so her relationship with Shin's mother did'nt stop her from doing that much. Since Shin's talk about Jun in her room near the end of episode 5 that progress has reversed. Coincidence? Also, they were alone the couple of times they talked about Jun in episodes 5 and 6 yet her demeanor was inconsistent with liking Jun. As for the lie, she told it once at the end of episode 3. While she has not retracted it, she has also not mentioned it again so it should'nt count as multiple lies unless you want to also consider for example that Aiko has lived out a lie for a while by dating Nobuse.

You're right in that we have gotten sidetracked. It started with your earlier post about Shin and Hiromi but it has shifted more towards Hiromi about her relationship with Shin.
I agree! Hiromi was opening to Shin from episode 3-5. IT was after Shin stupid dare to Jun and Shin going and telling her that Jun said she was cute and then Jun asking her to go out with him that Hiromi returned to her old self. Noe had noticed the change on Shin after Hiromi started opening up to him, so seeing him back to his old self gave her the hint that something was wrong. Noe is a very perseptive girl. Of course, she is blinded now by love, and can't see that Shin is putting an act, but she eventually will notice Shin's pain, once she get passed her lovey-dovey stage.
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Old 2008-02-18, 00:18   Link #31
Manji Midou
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Originally Posted by golthin View Post
I agree! Hiromi was opening to Shin from episode 3-5. IT was after Shin stupid dare to Jun and Shin going and telling her that Jun said she was cute and then Jun asking her to go out with him that Hiromi returned to her old self. Noe had noticed the change on Shin after Hiromi started opening up to him, so seeing him back to his old self gave her the hint that something was wrong. Noe is a very perseptive girl. Of course, she is blinded now by love, and can't see that Shin is putting an act, but she eventually will notice Shin's pain, once she get passed her lovey-dovey stage.
It was Hiromi's stupid lie that made shin make that stupid dare...had that stupid lie not been said that stupid dare had probably not be made...once again the blame falls on hiromi.
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Old 2008-02-19, 23:31   Link #32
Guardian Enzo
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Poor, poor Shin - his world just doesn't want to act the way it's supposed to. The way he acts. Is that too much to ask?
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Old 2008-02-19, 23:57   Link #33
golthin
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Poor, poor Shin - his world just doesn't want to act the way it's supposed to. The way he acts. Is that too much to ask?
because he see the world with pink colored glasses! It is time someone take them off for him! Aiko is going to be the one that does it for him.
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Old 2008-02-20, 00:06   Link #34
Guardian Enzo
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Maybe so, maybe so... What a way to get your first kiss - not from your unrequited beloved, not from the girl you just confessed to - but from your BF's GF. Ack, I almost expect a Scanners moment at the beginning of #8...
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Old 2008-02-20, 01:35   Link #35
HayashiTakara
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Well at least it was a child hood friend... lol

ah hem... I think people are making Shinichiro out to be a saint, when he really isn't.. he's been pretty mean to Noe... He's just a normal teenage guy..
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Old 2008-02-20, 01:43   Link #36
golthin
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Well at least it was a child hood friend... lol

ah hem... I think people are making Shinichiro out to be a saint, when he really isn't.. he's been pretty mean to Noe... He's just a normal teenage guy..
actually, Shin doesn't follow his "good boy" act with Noe! He is kind of himself with her.
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Old 2008-02-20, 13:57   Link #37
Atheuz
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actually, Shin doesn't follow his "good boy" act with Noe! He is kind of himself with her.
Which is great, it's a lot better than a lot of other animes where the main protagonist is a complete pansy with all the girls. It's also why I'm rooting for ShinxNoe ending, because they're a lot better together than say ShinxHiromi where they're both just awkward and you just don't feel it.
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Old 2008-03-12, 11:19   Link #38
vio5555
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It seems as if all of the other characters (the 3 leading ladies and Jun) are getting far more discussion than Shin.

Obviously, they've been more interesting until recently, but I think Shin in ep 10 warrants some kind of discussion since he's finally starting to put his actions in the context of his relationships with others.

I assume now he'll be getting to where his relationship with Noe belongs since in ep 10 he started addressing questions about him and Hiromi (while most of the Ai/Shin issues were dealt with before 10).

I think that the whole experience with Ai in some ways has made him realize what his impact is on people in a tangible way, and I felt that I got hints of that in ep 10 (although I may be reading a bit too deep into his interactions with her).

Either way, I do think he's well on his way to dealing with this whole situation "properly" (and if you get the nuance I don't mean by whom he chooses...), and I've been pleased at how he's slowly been changing.

Last edited by vio5555; 2008-03-12 at 11:33.
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Old 2008-03-12, 13:01   Link #39
golthin
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Originally Posted by vio5555 View Post
It seems as if all of the other characters (the 3 leading ladies and Jun) are getting far more discussion than Shin.

Obviously, they've been more interesting until recently, but I think Shin in ep 10 warrants some kind of discussion since he's finally starting to put his actions in the context of his relationships with others.

I assume now he'll be getting to where his relationship with Noe belongs since in ep 10 he started addressing questions about him and Hiromi (while most of the Ai/Shin issues were dealt with before 10).

I think that the whole experience with Ai in some ways has made him realize what his impact is on people in a tangible way, and I felt that I got hints of that in ep 10 (although I may be reading a bit too deep into his interactions with her).

Either way, I do think he's well on his way to dealing with this whole situation "properly" (and if you get the nuance I don't mean by whom he chooses...), and I've been pleased at how he's slowly been changing.
The thing about shin that doesn't entice people to discuss him as much is that he doesn't have eyes for anyone else but Hiromi. the only reaction we got for the Aiko incident was the small blush after he remembered the kiss and after that poof! Later we got him avoiding Aiko and after Nobuse told him about the break up he wondering if it was his fault. He has Hiromi on his mind at least 80% of the time.
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Old 2008-03-12, 18:27   Link #40
Guardian Enzo
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Yes, he's a teenager in love. His love for Hiromi is the filter through which all of his other feelings and actions pass through. Some people may not like that aspect of his character, but I think it's pretty realistic.
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