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Old 2008-02-10, 00:36   Link #201
james0246
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
I apologize if I do sound a little subjective in my reasonings, but the reason I say that Kuma is the most invaluable warlord is because he is the only obedient member that follows the orders of the world government, as stated by Moria. What do you think would enrage the world government more, for example, having Moria defeated or having Kuma defeated? If Kuma is out of the picture they probably would not have a warlord who would report important things to them. So far all of the known warlords presented to us, excluding Kuma, have shown little interest in the desires of the World Government. They mostly do as they please and this is the reason why the marines don't get along with them. I am just basing my viewpoints off of what we know so far in the story.

There are many things to suggest that Blackbeard will be fought near the end. For one thing, he is the dark side of Luffy with high aspirations to become the pirate king. He also has the will of "D", which so far has shown that characters who possess it are incredibly resilient to any obstructions in their way. Furthermore, he has been getting a lot of build up ever since Drum Island and he is still showing impressive feats as the story progresses. Why would Oda build up a character for so long based on his favorite historical pirate and have him taken out before the final battles of the story? It doesn't make sense. I know that you still feel that he is a "mid-boss" villain, but I really think he is a potential candidate for being at least one of the last bosses.

Jimbei - I would like for Sanji to fight him. Sanji being for the reason that he needs time to shine and defeat a major opponent. He is always overshadowed by Luffy and Zoro, but we know that he is definitely the third strongest member in the crew. His strength shows that he is eligible to contend with a warlord and he does deserve to take out a major player in the story.

Unknown Member - Brooke or someone else besides the strawhats.
You are right, of course. I just have this weird desire for Blackbeard to not be the final bad guy. I can not explain it, it is just a weird desire for someone else to be a final villian. It might be because I repect Blackbeard or at least have some weird type of respect for him because he is such a likable character. So, I can not help but want his defeat to come about by the hands of someone besides Luffy.

In the Jimbei fight, Nami should definitly take part. That is if Jimbei fights. I always kind of wanted him to be something of a gentle giant, or more precisely he is tired of his former days of violence and wants to relax in his old age. Whatever, it'll be fun.

But, I have to agree Sanji and Zoro need to beat a Shichibukai. They will not have "world" respect until they defeat a Shichibukai.
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Old 2008-02-10, 00:39   Link #202
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Chopper and Nami - Jimbei (Chopper is actually one of the physical strongest fighters next to Franky and Luffy; plus they are both part animal And Nami has a past with this Shichibukai)
Actually, we don't know if Jimbei (meaning whale-shark I believe) really is a fishman. We have to wait and actually see what he looks like before we can see what species he is. Although, I do find it hard to believe that Arlong would serve a captain that is not of his same species. He does hate humans after all. We also don't know that Nami has a past with Jimbei, but I can see how you would want her to fight him considering her past history with Arlong and the fishman species.
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Old 2008-02-10, 01:00   Link #203
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You are right, of course. I just have this weird desire for Blackbeard to not be the final bad guy. I can not explain it, it is just a weird desire for someone else to be a final villian. It might be because I repect Blackbeard or at least have some weird type of respect for him because he is such a likable character. So, I can not help but want his defeat to come about by the hands of someone besides Luffy.
Just out of curiosity james3wk, may I ask who you would like to be the final villain of One Piece?
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Old 2008-02-10, 01:33   Link #204
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Just out of curiosity james3wk, may I ask who you would like to be the final villain of One Piece?
I don't really know. I have always been a fan of escalation in Shounen manga. So, of course the final baddie should be the most powerful. But, damn if Blackbeard isn't allready powerful, one of if not the most powerful.

I guess I want, more than anything else, a villian you can hate. Like Crocodile or Enel. You can not help but love to hate these bastards. They look down on their broken victims laughing maniacally.
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Old 2008-02-10, 09:54   Link #205
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I don't really know. I have always been a fan of escalation in Shounen manga. So, of course the final baddie should be the most powerful. But, damn if Blackbeard isn't allready powerful, one of if not the most powerful.

I guess I want, more than anything else, a villian you can hate. Like Crocodile or Enel. You can not help but love to hate these bastards. They look down on their broken victims laughing maniacally.
It's no wonder you like Donflamingo quite a bit. So far this guy is probably the biggest ***hole in the shichibukai. He is so conceited and arrogant and is always laughing at people. It tells you why a snobbish pirate like Bellamy was working for him. Am I correct to assume that he is your favorite warlord so far?

One interesting thing to note is that Donflamingo's ideologies directly oppose those of Blackbeard's as well. I can definitely see some friction between these characters. I wonder what would happen if Donflamingo tried to provoke Blackbeard into a fight?
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Old 2008-02-10, 13:53   Link #206
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It's no wonder you like Donflamingo quite a bit. So far this guy is probably the biggest ***hole in the shichibukai. He is so conceited and arrogant and is always laughing at people. It tells you why a snobbish pirate like Bellamy was working for him. Am I correct to assume that he is your favorite warlord so far?
Exactly

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One interesting thing to note is that Donflamingo's ideologies directly oppose those of Blackbeard's as well. I can definitely see some friction between these characters. I wonder what would happen if Donflamingo tried to provoke Blackbeard into a fight?
It would be cool. Blackbeard deffinetely seems to have DonFlamingo beat in regards to strength (hell Blackbeard is built like a tank), so I doubt if DonFlamingo would even be able to actually hurt Blackbeard even if he was being controlled. But, DonFlamingo can easily control Blackbeard's crew into either attacking Blackbeard or attacking each other. If nothing else, I see no reason why DonFlamingo wouldn't be able to keep Blackbeard away from, even if he couldn't actually beat them.

Actually, if they were fighting on the sea, I could see DonFlamingo winning easily by simply forcing Blackbeard to walk into the sea.

Then again, this is all assumption, we do not actually know much about Blackbeard's powers let alone DonFlamingo's. So, it is too hard to say right now.
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Old 2008-02-10, 17:47   Link #207
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It would be cool. Blackbeard deffinetely seems to have DonFlamingo beat in regards to strength (hell Blackbeard is built like a tank), so I doubt if DonFlamingo would even be able to actually hurt Blackbeard even if he was being controlled. But, DonFlamingo can easily control Blackbeard's crew into either attacking Blackbeard or attacking each other. If nothing else, I see no reason why DonFlamingo wouldn't be able to keep Blackbeard away from, even if he couldn't actually beat them.

Actually, if they were fighting on the sea, I could see DonFlamingo winning easily by simply forcing Blackbeard to walk into the sea.

Then again, this is all assumption, we do not actually know much about Blackbeard's powers let alone DonFlamingo's. So, it is too hard to say right now.
Indeed. But even so, Donflamingo seems like one of the cheapest fighters so far in the story. He has given us the impression that he is nearly invincible in a one on one fight because of his ability, whatever that may exactly be. However, what you have said about Donflamingo being able to easily control Blackbeard's crew is not factually accurate. If you have noticed carefully in Donflamingo's appearances, he has only controlled one person at a time so far. I really doubt that he can control groups of people, otherwise he would be able to make armies for himself and have them take out any opposition to him. He would probably be the strongest character in the story if this were the case. Nobody would be able to touch him. As for his physical strength, I do agree with you that Blackbeard most likely outclasses him in this area. However, looks can be deceiving. To me so far, Donflamingo looks like the physically weakest member from all of the shown warlords. But I am not going to underestimate him when it comes time for him to enter the story and cause some damage. He must have some really nasty tricks up his sleeve to warrant him a former bounty of 340 million.
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Old 2008-02-11, 23:34   Link #208
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Now that Gecko Moria's fight is over in Thriller Bark, I wanted to know what you people think of him. Do you all feel that he lived up to his warlord status? Were you all pleased with his fight? Did you all like him as a character? I'm interested in reading your opinions.

I personally feel that he did live up to his warlord status. He has a former bounty of 320 million, and he definitely showed why he was able to accumulate such a big bounty. His shadow fruit ability showed just how dangerous he could potentially be. He is able to revitalize corpses by extracting the shadows of his opponents and placing them into the said corpses. If his shadowless victims are exposed to sunlight, they are consequently disintegrated resulting in their deaths. The ability to switch positions with his doppleganger shadow at any time allows for good defense and trickery on his behalf. The doppleganger is also good for using sneak attacks when Moria's opponents are caught off guard. Finally, his shadows asgard technique exponentially increases his physical strength to the point of surpassing even Oz's physical strength. Moria splitting thriller bark in half with one punch exemplifies this feat of strength. All of the above abilities deemed him worthy of being a warlord in my opinion.

Moria's fight was really well done and unique in my opinion. One could argue that it wasn't as epic as Crocodile's battle, but it was definitely special and unprecedented. This is the first time we ever got to see a team battle against the main villain. It was a collaborative effort from the strawhats against Moria using Oz as his fighting weapon. We got to see many great new and innovative techniques from the strawhats working together and just how disastrous Moria's devil fruit ability can be when used to awaken a monstrous fighting machine. Luffy using a combination of Gear 2 and 3 was also a spectacular finish against Moria.

As a character, I really do like Moria. His design is vastly different from the other characters in this series. He doesn't even look human; he looks more like a demon which does complement his nightmare theme. It's hard for me to say if I like him better than Crocodile. I do like Kuma better than him (you can probably tell by my name ) and I have a feeling that I am also going to like the other warlords more than him. I am not trying to downgrade Moria, I just feel that the other warlords are going to be more promising for me based on their personalities and significance to come. They also do seem to be more intimidating I feel.
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Old 2008-02-12, 04:03   Link #209
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Couldn't agree with you more. Moria was a great secondary villian. He had a solid dream, similiar in fact to Luffy's, had a semi-tragic background, some good if simple henchman, and a cute ghost-controlling girl named Perona . As you said, he had a great design and a great setting to work with his design, there were several interesting designs actually and the boat 'Thriller Bark' was quite fun ("Its and old man with a large wound" is still the phrase that I use now to describe all zombies ). And of course the fights were suitably epic (OZD was and is cool). All in all a great introduction to the "New World".

...Oh yeah, and Brooke. How can you go wrong with a sword-weilding afro-wearing rude crude skeletal dude. Added to that he had one of the best "Manly Emotions" backstory since Montblanc Norland and Calgara's vow to meet each other again that was finally fullfilled after 400 years. Truly great emotional stuff here.

Spoiler for Spoilers for one of the Movies:
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Old 2008-02-15, 23:18   Link #210
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Spoiler for Spoilers for one of the Movies:
Sorry for taking so long to respond back to your spoiler James3wk. It's been a while since I've seen that movie, so I thank you for providing an abstract for the villain in this movie. Yes, I absolutely do agree with you that Moria and this villain seem to be remarkably similar for the reasons you stated.

Now, there is one thing that I would like to discuss regarding Mihawk. Apparently from one of those SBS data books, it is stated that Mihawk can actually cut through elements. What I am wondering is, if Mihawk is to cut a logia user, would he just cut right through the element or would he actually hurt the person? The only way I could see him hurting the logia user is if his sword is made out of seastone. This greatly intrigues me because I think it would be rather silly for Mihawk, a person of such a high stature in the one piece universe, to not be able to match up against logia users.
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Old 2008-02-15, 23:56   Link #211
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Now, there is one thing that I would like to discuss regarding Mihawk. Apparently from one of those SBS data books, it is stated that Mihawk can actually cut through elements. What I am wondering is, if Mihawk is to cut a logia user, would he just cut right through the element or would he actually hurt the person? The only way I could see him hurting the logia user is if his sword is made out of seastone. This greatly intrigues me because I think it would be rather silly for Mihawk, a person of such a high stature in the one piece universe, to not be able to match up against logia users.
Thanks for the response to Movie 6.

Now for your question, I do not know the definite answer, then again only Oda does right now, but here is my interpretation of Mihawk's and Zoro's abilities.

In regards to Mihawk's ability to cut elements, let us look at Zoro and his evolution with his sword(s). To cut an element goes back to Zoro's training.

Zoro's sensei esplained that the greatest swordsman can cut through anything and nothing. Zoro proved this theory during the Alabasta Arc by being able to cut through rock (and steel) while not being able to cut through a palm leaf. He descibed it as hearing the 'breath' of the world around him. It is a very metaphysical concept, but in many respects, it could be said that Zoro became 'one' with the universe, or at least gained a higher understanding of the universe.

As fans have noticed, before the Mr. 1 fight, all of his attacks had animal names (even a demon can be considered an animal), but after the Mr. 1 fight, his attacks gained spirtual names (His cannon techniques as well as his 'Asura' techniques as seen in the fight with Kaku are all based around spiritual principles etc.). Zoro can cut through steel and iron, next is presumably diamond or something a little below that. After he learns to cut through the hardest materials, it is possible that he will be able to learn how to cut through immaterial substances.

It is a very zen-ish philosophy mixed in with Zoro's fighting style. By gaining a greater understanding of himself as well as the universe around him, he is slowly achieving a sense of enlightenment. With his enlightenment comes the ability to exert his will over the basic properties or the 'breaths' of the things around him. As his understanding of this technique improves, presumably he will eventually gain the ability to cut through elements.

This is what Mihawk allready does. A good indication as to how ready Zoro will be for a fight with Mihwak is whether or not Zoro can cut an element. Until he can cut through fire, etc. Zoro will not be ready to fight Mihwak.
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Old 2008-02-16, 01:29   Link #212
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Thanks for the response to Movie 6.

Now for your question, I do not know the definite answer, then again only Oda does right now, but here is my interpretation of Mihawk's and Zoro's abilities.

In regards to Mihawk's ability to cut elements, let us look at Zoro and his evolution with his sword(s). To cut an element goes back to Zoro's training.

Zoro's sensei esplained that the greatest swordsman can cut through anything and nothing. Zoro proved this theory during the Alabasta Arc by being able to cut through rock (and steel) while not being able to cut through a palm leaf. He descibed it as hearing the 'breath' of the world around him. It is a very metaphysical concept, but in many respects, it could be said that Zoro became 'one' with the universe, or at least gained a higher understanding of the universe.

As fans have noticed, before the Mr. 1 fight, all of his attacks had animal names (even a demon can be considered an animal), but after the Mr. 1 fight, his attacks gained spirtual names (His cannon techniques as well as his 'Asura' techniques as seen in the fight with Kaku are all based around spiritual principles etc.). Zoro can cut through steel and iron, next is presumably diamond or something a little below that. After he learns to cut through the hardest materials, it is possible that he will be able to learn how to cut through immaterial substances.

It is a very zen-ish philosophy mixed in with Zoro's fighting style. By gaining a greater understanding of himself as well as the universe around him, he is slowly achieving a sense of enlightenment. With his enlightenment comes the ability to exert his will over the basic properties or the 'breaths' of the things around him. As his understanding of this technique improves, presumably he will eventually gain the ability to cut through elements.

This is what Mihawk allready does. A good indication as to how ready Zoro will be for a fight with Mihwak is whether or not Zoro can cut an element. Until he can cut through fire, etc. Zoro will not be ready to fight Mihwak.
Very well said James3wk. Everything you have stated I completely agree with. It's just that Mihawk is a character with 2 prestigious titles; he is both a warlord and the strongest swordsman in the world. Having said this, you would think that he would be able to contend with logia users. To me, it just wouldn't feel right for Mihawk to be effortlessly defeated in a duel with a logia user, just for the simple fact that a logia user would be impervious to his attacks. The same thing could be said for characters such as Shanks, Doflamingo, and Sengoku the Buddha. These characters are members of their respective world powers and so far they don't appear to have logia fruits. What's to stop logia users from defeating these characters just because they cannot be physically hurt? I guess what I am trying to say is, is that there must be a way for these aforementioned characters to contend with logia users other than exploiting their weaknesses or using seastone.
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Old 2008-02-16, 01:54   Link #213
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Very well said James3wk. Everything you have stated I completely agree with. It's just that Mihawk is a character with 2 prestigious titles; he is both a warlord and the strongest swordsman in the world. Having said this, you would think that he would be able to contend with logia users. To me, it just wouldn't feel right for Mihawk to be effortlessly defeated in a duel with a logia user, just for the simple fact that a logia user would be impervious to his attacks. The same thing could be said for characters such as Shanks, Doflamingo, and Sengoku the Buddha. These characters are members of their respective world powers and so far they don't appear to have logia fruits. What's to stop logia users from defeating these characters just because they cannot be physically hurt? I guess what I am trying to say is, is that there must be a way for these aforementioned characters to contend with logia users other than exploiting their weaknesses or using seastone.
Oh sorry, I guess I did not finish my former post, or at least pull everything I was saying to it natural conclusion. Mihawk can damage logia users, easily if they can only use their logia powers. Because he understands how the elements "breath", he is able to cut them. As I said, it is some what metaphysical, but Mihawk can treat an elemental attack like any other attack and simply parry it or avoid. In regards to a logia body, he can see how it "breathes" and be able to cut it much the same as if the logia user was a regular person. This is what makes Mihawk the Strongest Swordsman in the World.

The weakness to this attack is to have a greater will than Mihawk (Mihawk's will is what allows him to attack a logia user, his will is greater, thus he believes he can cut, so he will cut...as I said very metaphysical), something very few characters can claim right now.
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Old 2008-02-16, 12:11   Link #214
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Oh sorry, I guess I did not finish my former post, or at least pull everything I was saying to it natural conclusion. Mihawk can damage logia users, easily if they can only use their logia powers. Because he understands how the elements "breath", he is able to cut them. As I said, it is some what metaphysical, but Mihawk can treat an elemental attack like any other attack and simply parry it or avoid. In regards to a logia body, he can see how it "breathes" and be able to cut it much the same as if the logia user was a regular person. This is what makes Mihawk the Strongest Swordsman in the World.

The weakness to this attack is to have a greater will than Mihawk (Mihawk's will is what allows him to attack a logia user, his will is greater, thus he believes he can cut, so he will cut...as I said very metaphysical), something very few characters can claim right now.
I understand that Mihawk can cut through elements, but unless his sword is made out of seastone there is no way he can actually hurt logia users. His sword attacks would simply slice through the elements just like how all other physical attacks pass through the bodies of logia users. All logia users are immune to physical pain, with the exception of Blackbeard, and if Mihawk's sword is not made out of seastone he would not be able to damage logia users at all.
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Old 2008-02-16, 13:05   Link #215
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I understand that Mihawk can cut through elements, but unless his sword is made out of seastone there is no way he can actually hurt logia users. His sword attacks would simply slice through the elements just like how all other physical attacks pass through the bodies of logia users. All logia users are immune to physical pain, with the exception of Blackbeard, and if Mihawk's sword is not made out of seastone he would not be able to damage logia users at all.
Let me start of by saying, until Oda actually shows the fight with Mihawk or shows Zoro cut a logia user, my analysis of their powers is purely speculative.

I'm not explaining myself clearly. It has nothing to do with the sword, it is all Mihawk. The training that Mihawk has gone through allows him to 'see' past the devil fruit abilities of his opponents, and to 'see' simply the person he is fighting. By understanding the 'breath' of the world around him, Mihawk is able to exert his will upon the 'breath'. Much the same as Zoro, by actively controlling the 'breath' of the univere around him, Mihawk can make it so that he wills his sword to cut through a logia body. To put it another way, there is no way that Zoro's sword could not have cut through that palm tree in the Alabasta arc, while fighting Mr. 1, the very fact that he did not cut through the tree, implies that he can exert his own willpower of his sword forcing it to cut or not to cut (that's the question , sorry couldn'y resist). This is what Mihawk does to fight Logia bodies, he forces his sword to hurt them.

Damn, I can explain my idea further, but it gets into some freaky philosophical sh*t, and, well, I don't feel like going through all the hassel of trying to explain everything when I am not even sure if I am correct.
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Old 2008-02-16, 16:01   Link #216
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Let me start of by saying, until Oda actually shows the fight with Mihawk or shows Zoro cut a logia user, my analysis of their powers is purely speculative.

I'm not explaining myself clearly. It has nothing to do with the sword, it is all Mihawk. The training that Mihawk has gone through allows him to 'see' past the devil fruit abilities of his opponents, and to 'see' simply the person he is fighting. By understanding the 'breath' of the world around him, Mihawk is able to exert his will upon the 'breath'. Much the same as Zoro, by actively controlling the 'breath' of the univere around him, Mihawk can make it so that he wills his sword to cut through a logia body. To put it another way, there is no way that Zoro's sword could not have cut through that palm tree in the Alabasta arc, while fighting Mr. 1, the very fact that he did not cut through the tree, implies that he can exert his own willpower of his sword forcing it to cut or not to cut (that's the question , sorry couldn'y resist). This is what Mihawk does to fight Logia bodies, he forces his sword to hurt them.

Damn, I can explain my idea further, but it gets into some freaky philosophical sh*t, and, well, I don't feel like going through all the hassel of trying to explain everything when I am not even sure if I am correct.
Considering that we are both speculating on how Mihawk could fight with Logia users, what I bolded in your previous post is definitely a plausible explanation as to how Mihawk would be able to hurt them. But like you said, we are going to have to wait for the long awaited inevitable showdown between Zoro and Mihawk in order to see how Mihawk would fare against logia users. I can't wait to see Mihawk fight seriously.

I guess what I have been trying to convey here is that, yes, logia users are indeed at the top of the food chain in the one piece universe but they are not so invincible to the point where they dominate everyone else in the series. I am pretty sure that characters like Garp, Sengoku, and Whitebeard, all of which have many years of battle experience, would know how to deal with logia users. I am quite certain they have had encounters with logia users in the past.
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Old 2008-02-16, 18:05   Link #217
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Considering that we are both speculating on how Mihawk could fight with Logia users, what I bolded in your previous post is definitely a plausible explanation as to how Mihawk would be able to hurt them. But like you said, we are going to have to wait for the long awaited inevitable showdown between Zoro and Mihawk in order to see how Mihawk would fare against logia users. I can't wait to see Mihawk fight seriously.

I guess what I have been trying to convey here is that, yes, logia users are indeed at the top of the food chain in the one piece universe but they are not so invincible to the point where they dominate everyone else in the series. I am pretty sure that characters like Garp, Sengoku, and Whitebeard, all of which have many years of battle experience, would know how to deal with logia users. I am quite certain they have had encounters with logia users in the past.
I just want to say one more thing that will possibly aid in the discussion concerning Mihawk's and Zoro's abilities to fight material and immaterial things. In Chapter 400 or so, right before Zoro is 'tied' up to Usopp, Zoro mentions that he can not lose his focus or else his blades will lose their "sharpness". So, his ability to cut and injure the Stronger than Steel bodies of the CP9 is resulted from his ability to "focus". Drawing this to its extreme, If Zoro were to "focus" enough, he could presumable cut a logia users body, something it seems that Mihawk allready can do.
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Old 2008-02-16, 21:01   Link #218
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Originally Posted by james3wk View Post
I just want to say one more thing that will possibly aid in the discussion concerning Mihawk's and Zoro's abilities to fight material and immaterial things. In Chapter 400 or so, right before Zoro is 'tied' up to Usopp, Zoro mentions that he can not lose his focus or else his blades will lose their "sharpness". So, his ability to cut and injure the Stronger than Steel bodies of the CP9 is resulted from his ability to "focus". Drawing this to its extreme, If Zoro were to "focus" enough, he could presumable cut a logia users body, something it seems that Mihawk allready can do.
Agreed.

What does everyone think of this concept art for Jimbei?


I think that this is truly a work of art and it is an interesting design for Jimbei.
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Old 2008-02-17, 15:15   Link #219
Slayerx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Agreed.

What does everyone think of this concept art for Jimbei?


I think that this is truly a work of art and it is an interesting design for Jimbei.
Well, it is a nice design... however, knowing Oda's style for character design, i'm thinking that design is probably way off. If he really is a whale shark, i'm guessing he's gonna be HUGE (about Kuma/moria size) and probably have a pretty big mouth
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Old 2008-02-17, 15:30   Link #220
james0246
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[QUOTE=Blackbeard D. Kuma;1403701]Agreed.

What does everyone think of this concept art for Jimbei?


I think that this is truly a work of art and it is an interesting design for Jimbei.[/QUIt is a good picture, pretty sinister, but I am expecting Jimbei to be as large if not larger than Shipwright Tom. This design looks a little smaller than Arlong. Besides Luffy, and the CP9, a physically strong individual is generally shown as being strong by how tall or large-set the individual is. Arlong, Tom, Garp (to an extent), etc. are all 'large' individuals.

If this figure was much larger with a bigger mouth (something the Whale Shark is known for) adn hugely broad shoulders, then the design would proably be more accurate.
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