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Old 2008-02-20, 00:58   Link #1001
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
^ So it was the canceller and not the nuclear powered suit?
Pretty much, it wouldn't make much sense to make prohibitions against constructing nuclear-powered mobile suits when the real threat exists in the form of nuclear missiles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper View Post
Again I ask you, what is there left to further develop in the 3rd series or the movie?
You seemed to have missed all of our points about limited conflicts, exploring the fertility crisis, setting the story far in the future, and so on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper View Post
Unless of course, Lacus becomes corrupt from the power she amassed at the end of Destiny
That'd be really cool. I already have an image of the last scene being Lacus achieving total victory as she gloats about how easily Kira fell to her plans.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper View Post
Also, Dullindal didn't wish for innocent blood to be spilled, Morosawa just had to make him that way so that Kira and co. decision to kill him off would be "right" and "legal" at the same time.
So you're now presuming to understand Durandal better than the creators of Destiny? Fine - in my opinion, that forcefield thing didn't happen at the end of Zeta, so Yazan Gable actually defeated all his enemies and became the overall dictator of the Federation.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper View Post
What is there left to develop?
You seemed to have missed all of our points about limited conflicts, exploring the fertility crisis, setting the story far in the future, and so on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper View Post
Also, cutting off the source that is the reason for the war is a big thing, especially if they were really meaning to save the world from another war. >.>;;
At the end of Seed, none of the parties thought that there wouldn't be another conflict in the near future. Just about the first thing every force did was to massively rearm.

From a real world standpoint, things like the War to end all Wars simply didn't. And likewise, any attempt to resolve deeply held hatreds so conveniently would rightly be regarded as execrable writing.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper View Post
But the thing is everything has already been taken cared of by SE IV. Gundam stories have always been about saving the world from some evil
But that doesn't mean that it couldn't be about a smaller conflict. In fact, most Gundam shows would have benefited by making the scope of their wars (or at least of the portion that's portrayed) much smaller.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper View Post
Gundam 00 now has a war in it. >.>;;
Really? Where?
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Old 2008-02-20, 01:10   Link #1002
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by k//eternal View Post
Hey, this is a good idea. Don't take it the wrong way, but Wesley, when you have a long post, can you spoiler tag it also?
But then there would be no wall of text for massive damage.
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Old 2008-02-20, 05:44   Link #1003
Sir Dearka
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@Eidolon Sniper

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As I said, the war was going on, so the sense of menace was a given...>.>;; but other than that, I see no threat at all until Zala and Azrael threatened to wipe each other out from the face of the entire universe.
Yeah, basically in the final episodes it turns out that Zala and Blue Cosmos leader are major threats.Along with Rau who acted like a double agent with nihilistic tendencies. For most of the series, we just see the characters fighting for their lives and striving with their moral dilemmas and choices. A simple threat of war. Your friends could die any time, any minute. You could die, too. So really, from an individual point of view (omg, those 4 Gundams are going to kil us!) or cosmic point of view (Patrick ZAla wants to destroy Earth! AAA!) there where enough "threats" for the series.

I still don't see you point. What did you want to prove except the obvious fact that Zala and Azrael where the "threats"? That they were the only ones? What about the corrupted EA soldiers on Artemis? What about the rest of EA generals who expressed same tendencies as Blue Cosmos or even where the members of this organization? What about Rau who worked hard behind the scenes to bring down entire human nations?

Quote:
So if we end up like Azrael (like we are, for example, have a certain dislike for someone, or a group of people, or whatever), does that make us villains as well? >.>;; We sometimes tend to act like Azrael too in some way, and Zala in some way (like being selfish over some favorite game or favorite food in so many various ways, then resort to doing childish pranks or whatever in order to get back at them, or even we have our own narrow-minded notions about something), but it doesn't make us a villain - except maybe to the people who we acted like a Grinch to.
And no, I don't think we act like Patrick or Azrael. You are absolutely missing the point here. "Being selfish over some favorite video game or food is by no means HOMICIDE. That's surprising simplification from the person like you, whom I consider to be rather intelligent. We are not ready to kill millions of people for our own aims. If we do, we are indeed villains. But if u want to again change the scale of our "faults", well... some people like me may call those selfish people who hold the best food for themselves to be "little villains". Of course, the scale of the "crime" is much much lower, so my approach is much less serious, even to the point of forgiveness!

As for ideas for further developoment, there are many, even with a seemingly "flawless victory" of Lacus and co. That's just my opinion. Use your imagination. Even the purests of paradises may fall under the corrupt activities of the few. And I really don't think that the winning of the second war would bring eternal peace everywhere. Conflicts always were and will be there. Enough conflicts to eventually spawn new series if big fishes decide to do it

And about Dullindal, as I said, we already had discussions here. And as I remember, u also participated in it. And I think that it was clear obvious that the Chairman was made to be a villain of the show. But if you still want a rehash from this "fight", just turn to 4Tran who seemed to have already picked the challenge.

---

As for the dream sequel to me... I'd really like to see Kira in a grunt unit
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Old 2008-02-20, 06:12   Link #1004
Bring d0wn tEh Sky
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What would be cool is seeing the early days of Mwu, how and why he enlisted, his academy days, first sorties and Endymion
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Old 2008-02-20, 06:15   Link #1005
Sir Dearka
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Originally Posted by Bring d0wn tEh Sky View Post
What would be cool is seeing the early days of Mwu, how and why he enlisted, his academy days, first sorties and Endymion
I see it as short OAV series. Maybe two or three 40-minute episodes
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Old 2008-02-20, 08:07   Link #1006
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by Sir Dearka View Post
I see it as short OAV series. Maybe two or three 40-minute episodes
Ah, back in the days when destroying four Ginns in a single battle was considered more than simply impressive. More like unheard of.
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Old 2008-02-21, 09:24   Link #1007
D-KLAC
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well maybe all GS fans should really do a rally or something to get a prequal series/special/ova for GS.

even ask for mini GS to get a series.
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Old 2008-02-21, 15:29   Link #1008
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by D-KLAC View Post
well maybe all GS fans should really do a rally or something to get a prequal series/special/ova for GS.

even ask for mini GS to get a series.
I'd say we've had enough. More than most Gundam series anyway. We'll never be able to surpass the sheer amount of UC material, but no Gundam ever will, which may be for the best since UC had some series that were just awful, or so I've been told.
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Old 2008-02-21, 15:34   Link #1009
Sir Dearka
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I'd not mind a little movie or a short OAV series, really. Because an entirely new 50-episode series seems to be nothing but wishful thinking for hardcore CE fans.
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Old 2008-02-21, 16:10   Link #1010
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by Sir Dearka View Post
I'd not mind a little movie or a short OAV series, really. Because an entirely new 50-episode series seems to be nothing but wishful thinking for hardcore CE fans.
I have mixed feelings about a movie at this point. I would really hate for it to bomb. Fortunately the reason it's taking so long and being kept under such a tight lid might indicate that the studio is worried about that as well.
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Old 2008-02-21, 16:37   Link #1011
Sir Dearka
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Of course, if the studio is not sure about its ideas, then it'd be better if it did not realize them. I think another thing like "Kira the ultimate god" would just not sell well. They should make something completelly new. With a couple of cameos, eventually.
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Old 2008-02-21, 16:37   Link #1012
Dean_the_Young
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Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
I'd say we've had enough. More than most Gundam series anyway. We'll never be able to surpass the sheer amount of UC material, but no Gundam ever will, which may be for the best since UC had some series that were just awful, or so I've been told.
FYI, don't respond to D-KLAC. He/she/it is the definition of a CE-nut-troll, and doesn't work well with grammar or dissenting opinions on the epic greatness of Destiny or the Seedverse. It's probably not even a dozen pages back.
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I have mixed feelings about a movie at this point. I would really hate for it to bomb. Fortunately the reason it's taking so long and being kept under such a tight lid might indicate that the studio is worried about that as well.
Or that it was canceled...

(Bets $50 on D-KLAC's response...)
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Old 2008-02-21, 17:25   Link #1013
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by Sir Dearka View Post
Of course, if the studio is not sure about its ideas, then it'd be better if it did not realize them. I think another thing like "Kira the ultimate god" would just not sell well. They should make something completelly new. With a couple of cameos, eventually.
You think it's impossible for Kira's ability to be downplayed and made more in line with "mortal" standards? I personally don't think he was as bad as people seem to think he was, but if it's a common impression, correcting it would be advantageous.

Actually if they simply say that the N-Jammers' battery life expired, one of the main advantages of nuclear powered suits equipped with cancelers evaporates. The targetting range and accuracy is then on more equal terms, as well as battlefield awareness.
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Old 2008-02-21, 18:07   Link #1014
Sir Dearka
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But still, I can't see much in terms of Kira's possible character development... At least not enough to make him the main protagonist of such show. Same for Athrun Zala. Unless they make the "unthinkable" - they start to kill off important characters. But really, give me an example or some idea about them that may not sound cheap.

Personally, I'd not risk focusing all over again on KiraxLacusxAthrun. I'd just incvent the new story with them in the background. No old Gundams. Every single Gundam was destroyed because of peace treaty. Maybe only Akatsuki hidden deep under Orb. And then come the new ones. Two are enough for the beginning But it's just me.
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Old 2008-02-21, 18:39   Link #1015
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by Sir Dearka View Post
But still, I can't see much in terms of Kira's possible character development... At least not enough to make him the main protagonist of such show. Same for Athrun Zala. Unless they make the "unthinkable" - they start to kill off important characters. But really, give me an example or some idea about them that may not sound cheap.

Personally, I'd not risk focusing all over again on KiraxLacusxAthrun. I'd just incvent the new story with them in the background. No old Gundams. Every single Gundam was destroyed because of peace treaty. Maybe only Akatsuki hidden deep under Orb. And then come the new ones. Two are enough for the beginning But it's just me.
Kira's fall from grace doesn't only have to apply to his martial ability. Would you be taken aback if he expressed impatience, anger, feelings in general? Fact is, Kira was disturbed and uneasy after what happened in Seed, when suddenly he was forced into action again by the attack in Desiny. After which he would wonder if they should or should not do something about the situation the world was facing.

If it weren't for Cagalli's nerfage and Dullidal's apparent obession with them, they probably wouldn't have done anything in Destiny, even after the attack.

That's why I think that if Kira is handed some actual responsiblities where he's not in a position to simply watch as the world passes him by, he'd be alright as a focus again. They could expand his character to beyond the "No killing" policy, and have him invested in something other than some hippy ideal.

Being in ZAFT would probably do him some good, although making him a high-ranking commander automatically doesn't really make sense given his experience and aptitudes. Athrun could pull off being a member of Faith, since he was already familiar with command structures, tactics, and organization, and he had the good sense to not second guess the people he was working with.

Kira by comparison was simply a good pilot in a powerful suit.

Having Kira ordered around would be a sight to behold.
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Old 2008-02-21, 18:47   Link #1016
Sir Dearka
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That actually sounds quite good. But then it'd be all about disillusion. One could only know if such change would really fit this character. I know that it might be considered an attempt to make the show "more mature and darker". But really, that'd be the very first time it'd be so.

But yeah, I agree that the first thing we should do with Kira is just to scrap him of some godly equipment and capabilities. Then we could again sit and watch him struggling for real, not like some n00bing supermaster.
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Old 2008-02-21, 19:34   Link #1017
D-KLAC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
FYI, don't respond to D-KLAC. He/she/it is the definition of a CE-nut-troll, and doesn't work well with grammar or dissenting opinions on the epic greatness of Destiny or the Seedverse. It's probably not even a dozen pages back.

Or that it was canceled...

(Bets $50 on D-KLAC's response...)
hoi ya have no idea about me do ya?!

besides unlike any of ya i'm more GS than anyone in here besides i'm on GS since 04 & been watching animes since 96 geez really besides i'm like ICON, INFAMOUS, REBELIOUS, EXTREME, HARDCORE, & many others but i'm a 100% REAL TRUE LOYAL GS FAN ORIGINAL.

& also GSM is still on it's just very top secret to the public.

also speaking of GS era maybe GS fans should really RISE UP to help the GS besides maybe the fans should give ideas for a new GS project.
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A KLAC IS JUST TOO COMMIT, HONOR, LOYALTY, PRIDE, ETC TO WORLD OF ANIME
WALKING THE PATH OF KLAC ON THE JOURNEY THORUGH THE KLAC-ERA
YOU EITHER ANIME NEXUS http://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=24159 OR AGAINST THE ANIME
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Old 2008-02-21, 19:40   Link #1018
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$50 to Dean_the_Young, I suppose.
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Old 2008-02-21, 20:00   Link #1019
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by Sir Dearka View Post
That actually sounds quite good. But then it'd be all about disillusion. One could only know if such change would really fit this character. I know that it might be considered an attempt to make the show "more mature and darker". But really, that'd be the very first time it'd be so.

But yeah, I agree that the first thing we should do with Kira is just to scrap him of some godly equipment and capabilities. Then we could again sit and watch him struggling for real, not like some n00bing supermaster.
Boot Camp for Coordinators, even Ultimate ones, can't be pleasant. What's he going to do when people start teasing him for "sleeping with the boss"?

I don't see what's wrong with Kira's capabilities or equipment. It's simply a matter of portrayal. Certainly, S. Freedom's got alot of bling, but I don't think it's the terror people make it out to be. Really, if you're okay with the original Freedom, you should be okay with Strike Freedom since they're similiar in most ways.
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Old 2008-02-21, 20:00   Link #1020
Dean_the_Young
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$50 to Dean_the_Young, I suppose.
It's like cheating, but legal!
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