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Old 2008-02-24, 02:38   Link #81
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudninja View Post
Also, you can see she is wearing the cardigan over her usual shirt/light sweater whatever. [...] Shin's mother does'nt have to change clothing, she just puts the cardigan over her regular shirt when it's colder.
You think she would wear her red cardigan over this?
Spoiler for Episode 8, Shinichirou's Mother's Outfit:
Isn't that already like wearing a cardigan? Maybe it's just really cold? Maybe she got changed? In either case, maybe it's just me, but I can't see her pulling that red sweater over top of what she was last seen wearing. That certainly doesn't dismiss the possibility that it's still her, but it does bring the timeline into question a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudninja View Post
Ok, here are the pics to prove that the red shirt in the episode 9 preview belongs to Shin's mother. [...] At any rate, this scene happens in Shin's house and the red cardigan belongs to Shin's mother.
Well, or, somebody else has the same colour shirt? "Prove" is such a strong word...

I can accept the theory about the location, as it does look very similar, but it seems to me that the pattern/style isn't so unusual that there could be another location with the same pattern (or, in other words: lazy texture artists). That being said, it does seem the most likely, given that it looks similar to locations already seen (and it's logical to default to that over assuming some previously unseen location, despite the fact that the episode ends with Hiromi heading off to another town).

Edit: I suppose one theory could be that the episode begins some time (a day?) after the end of the previous episode, with Hiromi returning home after being gone with Jun without explanation. That could explain the cops, Shinichirou's mother's change of outfit, and why Shinichirou is so upset at Jun (presuming they don't tell us right away what happened -- he might assume that Jun took advantage of her). That would still allow for the scene to take place back at the house with the mother, allow for the change of clothes, explain why she might be willing to let the mother talk to her like that, and still not diminish the impact of her decision to run off arbitrarily. A possibility?
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Old 2008-02-24, 03:07   Link #82
golthin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post

Edit: I suppose one theory could be that the episode begins some time (a day?) after the end of the previous episode, with Hiromi returning home after being gone with Jun without explanation. That
I can accept that theory, it is pretty valid. We will find the truth next saturday!
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Old 2008-02-24, 03:13   Link #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
You think she would wear her red cardigan over this?
Spoiler for Episode 8, Shinichirou's Mother's Outfit:
Isn't that already like wearing a cardigan? Maybe it's just really cold? Maybe she got changed? In either case, maybe it's just me, but I can't see her pulling that red sweater over top of what she was last seen wearing. That certainly doesn't dismiss the possibility that it's still her, but it does bring the timeline into question a bit.

Well, or, somebody else has the same colour shirt? "Prove" is such a strong word...
I acknowledged in my previous post that the possibility of it being a flashback exists. Maybe I should focus more on another word I used. Probability, as in there's a good probability that it is the cardigan of Shin's mother. Just about everyone including you jumped to the conclusion that it was Jun's shirt even though the reddish purple shirt he left with in is a much worse match to the shirt in the preview pic than the one Shin's mother owns. Even with a large difference in detail between Jun's shirt and the one shown in the preview pic, many people easily came up with various excuses for the difference while still adamantly saying it was the exact same shirt he was wearing when he left.

It's also more probable that the location is Hiromi's room than some unknown place she might get to or Jun's house because of the walls and green carpeting with black lines. Well, I guess it's natural for most people to want to defend their inital position. I just wanted to explore the possibility that the preview clip was intentionally misleading coming after what happened at the end of the episode but most people fell for it hook, line and sinker. Then they proceeded to defend it vigorously, which is fine but try to give a good reason why it's going to happen as suggested by the preview instead of resisting viable alternatives that make sense.

Last edited by cloudninja; 2008-02-24 at 04:10.
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Old 2008-02-24, 03:16   Link #84
golthin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudninja View Post
I acknowledged in my previous post that the possibility of it being a flashback exists. Maybe I should focus more on another word I used. Probability, as in there's a good probability that it is the cardigan of Shin's mother. Just about everyone including you jumped to the conclusion that it was Jun's shirt even though the reddish purple shirt he left with in is a much worse match to the shirt in the preview pic than the one Shin's mother owns. Even with a large difference in detail between Jun's shirt and the one shown in the preview pic, many people easily came up with various excuses for the difference while still adamantly saying it was the exact same shirt he was wearing when he left.

It's also more probable that the location is Hiromi's room than some unknown place she might get to or Jun's house because of the walls and green carpeting with black lines. Well, I guess it's natural for most people to want to defend their inital position. I just wanted to explore the possibility that the preview clip was intentionally misleading coming after what happened at the end of the episode but most people fell for it hook, line and sinker. Then they proceeded to defend it vigorously.
Cloudninja, we most likely will be the one pointing fingers next saturday. There is always the possibility we are wrong but I am pretty sure that I would bet $50.00 on it (if I had more free money ill bet it too).
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Old 2008-02-24, 05:27   Link #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudninja View Post
Ok, here are the pics to prove that the red shirt in the episode 9 preview belongs to Shin's mother. The location of the episode 9 preview pic is either Hiromi's room or the dining room as they both have the same green carpet with black lines and they both have one wall that look the same. It's more likely to be Hiromi's room.

Spoiler for Hiromi episode 9 preview pic 1 showing green carpet, note the black line:
Who is taking this off... So did mother give it right after to Hiromi to warm up when she came back with police. Is mother staring to show show some compassion (Is it ok to be longer here) or are they same room just comparing birth marks Maybe mother is starting to melt. Here hoping they stop hating each other before ending.
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Old 2008-02-24, 11:48   Link #86
Unknown123
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the person with the red shirt could be noe's coat as seen her...

http://randomc.animeblogger.net/imag...Large%2009.jpg
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Old 2008-02-24, 12:49   Link #87
jaisrh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown123 View Post
the person with the red shirt could be noe's coat as seen her...

http://randomc.animeblogger.net/imag...Large%2009.jpg
Is'nt Noe a lot shorter than Hiromi though? The episode 9 preview shows the person as being slightly taller than Hiromi based on height of shoulders. Also, Jun is a lot taller than Hiromi so the person in the red shirt is even less likely to be Jun.

Edit: Here you go, I went to the trouble finding a screenshot of Jun and Hiromi. Look at how much taller Jun is compared to Hiromi while standing side-by-side. Then look at the ep 9 preview pic to see that the person wearing red is only slightly taller while also stand next to her. Cloudninja, hope you don't mind if I borrowed the 2nd pic from your gallery as it helps you prove your point that it's not Jun.

First pic of Hiromi standing next to Jun, he's a lot taller and bigger than her
Spoiler for Hiromi standing next to Jun:


Second pic borrowed with thanks to cloudninja of preview pic where Hiromi is shown undressing. The person in red is only slightly taller than Hiromi, almost the same height.
Spoiler for preview pic from ep 9:

Last edited by jaisrh; 2008-02-24 at 13:20. Reason: add pics
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Old 2008-02-24, 13:01   Link #88
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudninja View Post
I acknowledged in my previous post that the possibility of it being a flashback exists. Maybe I should focus more on another word I used. Probability, as in there's a good probability that it is the cardigan of Shin's mother. Just about everyone including you jumped to the conclusion that it was Jun's shirt even though the reddish purple shirt he left with in is a much worse match to the shirt in the preview pic than the one Shin's mother owns. Even with a large difference in detail between Jun's shirt and the one shown in the preview pic, many people easily came up with various excuses for the difference while still adamantly saying it was the exact same shirt he was wearing when he left.
I definitely admit that -- I jumped to that conclusion, mostly because I felt it would make sense as a story progression given what we had seen in 7, and I'm not a visual person -- slight differences it tone and shape don't jump out at me, and the textures of the walls don't mean all that much to me either (maybe I'm too used to games where textures are reused en-masse! ). You presented the evidence, and I can accept your theory. The second half of my doubt was about plausibility -- after having their big blow-up and Hiromi storming off with Jun, why would she be back at that house undressing next to Shinichirou's mother? Doesn't that ruin the impact of the end of the episode? As a result of the discussion, we've had a few plausible theories proposed to address that. So my doubts about "motive" have been addressed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudninja View Post
Well, I guess it's natural for most people to want to defend their inital position. I just wanted to explore the possibility that the preview clip was intentionally misleading coming after what happened at the end of the episode but most people fell for it hook, line and sinker. Then they proceeded to defend it vigorously, which is fine but try to give a good reason why it's going to happen as suggested by the preview instead of resisting viable alternatives that make sense.
I think you're taking the idea of "defending one's theory" a bit too seriously and taking my "resistance" the wrong way. Certainly, one's easily swayed by their first impression. From what happened in the story sequence leading up to the preview, it would have made sense to me for Jun to take Hiromi off somewhere, as per her request. But you interpreted my resistance to your theories as just "defending my own" or being closed to other options. That isn't the case at all. I'm not at all "set in my ways". Your theory focused on physical evidence, which helps build the case, but what I was struggling on was "motive" (as outlined above). So I was pushing back to see how strongly the theory held water, and in an attempt to probe at possible motivations that would support the theory.

Basically, I get the impression that both you and golthin felt exasperated by my attempt to test your theories. This is the only way I know to truly understand something -- I need to be able to explain it myself, inside and out. I am not at all closed minded to other options, nor am I at all interested "I told you so" games. This isn't about being "right", it's about understanding what the most probable theory is, and why. At this time, I would say that your theory is the most probable based on the evidence and on the corollary theories proposed. So, as a result of our discussion, I will consider that we all "won" if this theory pans out, because we talked about it were able to understand each other's points of view. I'm here to learn, not to "preach".
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Old 2008-02-24, 14:06   Link #89
Unknown123
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Thumbs up

it has to be noe, cause who else have that kind of shirt. Plus hiromi isn't that stupid to take her frustration to jun. And it can't be shin's mom because she doesn't wear that kind of clothes. But I still could be wrong. Also about noe shorter than hiromi is that the view could be from a diagnol side.
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Old 2008-02-24, 14:19   Link #90
jaisrh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown123 View Post
it has to be noe, cause who else have that kind of shirt. Plus hiromi isn't that stupid to take her frustration to jun. And it can't be shin's mom because she doesn't wear that kind of clothes. But I still could be wrong. Also about noe shorter than hiromi is that the view could be from a diagnol side.
Look at cloudninja's post on page 4 where he has several pics that you probably did'nt see. Shin's mother does own a red cardigan that matches, and the floor and wall from the preview match that of Hiromi's room. Why would Noe be in Hiromi's room?
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Old 2008-02-24, 14:48   Link #91
Kaoru Chujo
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I was going to post some caps showing that Hiromi was 90% likely to be taking her shirt off in her own room, but cloudninja posted them for me. It is almost certain that that is her room, with the latticed walls and tatami (not carpet) floor.

The shirt is not as purple as Jun's shirt, even in ep2, where it is less purple. It could be the sweater in the flashback, or some dressing gown, but in any case there is really no other candidate we know of that could be in Hiromi's room than Shin's mother. I say 90% because it's barely possible that the upstairs at Noe and Jun's house had tatami floors and latticed walls, and Noe's coat is that color, but I'm satisfied that it is Hiromi's room, myself.
Spoiler for ep9 preview:
By the way, I can finally see the possibility that Shin's mother might have invented the sibling thing. Until now, I just did not think she would have invented such a shameful thing, that it would have hurt her pride too much to tell anyone that, unless she couldn't escape the fact that it was true.

However, if she was desperate for something that would keep Hiromi away from her beloved son, she might have stooped to that, in the knowledge that Hiromi wouldn't tell anyone else. Probably someone else made this point before. I apologize for discounting it. I still think the sibling thing might well be true, but at least now I see the real possibility that it is false. In any case, Hiromi's mother clearly did something to attract Shin's father's affection, and hurt Shin's mother. Whether they actually made love, or whether they did it at a time that would allow Hiromi to be their daughter, I don't know. The printed preview suggests that in ep9 Shin's mother says more about the situation.
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Last edited by Kaoru Chujo; 2008-02-24 at 15:38.
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Old 2008-02-24, 20:19   Link #92
Goodwin999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaisrh View Post
Is'nt Noe a lot shorter than Hiromi though? The episode 9 preview shows the person as being slightly taller than Hiromi based on height of shoulders. Also, Jun is a lot taller than Hiromi so the person in the red shirt is even less likely to be Jun.

Edit: Here you go, I went to the trouble finding a screenshot of Jun and Hiromi. Look at how much taller Jun is compared to Hiromi while standing side-by-side. Then look at the ep 9 preview pic to see that the person wearing red is only slightly taller while also stand next to her. Cloudninja, hope you don't mind if I borrowed the 2nd pic from your gallery as it helps you prove your point that it's not Jun.

First pic of Hiromi standing next to Jun, he's a lot taller and bigger than her
Spoiler for Hiromi standing next to Jun:


Second pic borrowed with thanks to cloudninja of preview pic where Hiromi is shown undressing. The person in red is only slightly taller than Hiromi, almost the same height.
Spoiler for preview pic from ep 9:
Based on your observation with the height and the color of the shirt I am almost certain it is not Jun.

Here is a more interesting theory that the person standing behind Hiromi is in fact Shin. (Shin might get laid in the end of the next episode )

If you didn't notice Shin has a baggy-like orange/red shirt (Jun is too slim and never wore anything that baggy) and on top of that jaisrh's height comparison also supports my claim since Shin is just slightly taller than Hiromi.

Last edited by Goodwin999; 2008-02-24 at 21:23.
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Old 2008-02-25, 01:18   Link #93
jaisrh
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Originally Posted by Goodwin999 View Post
Here is a more interesting theory that the person standing behind Hiromi is in fact Shin. (Shin might get laid in the end of the next episode )

If you didn't notice Shin has a baggy-like orange/red shirt (Jun is too slim and never wore anything that baggy) and on top of that jaisrh's height comparison also supports my claim since Shin is just slightly taller than Hiromi.
The only way that's gonna happen that way in episode 9 is if Shin has a wet dream that we get to see. Wishful thinking since it would be out of place, but I would'nt mind seeing that. Maybe in an OVA or one of those specials like an episode 9.5 type of deal. Something more lighthearted and fun once the 13 episode series is done since there's quite a bit of angst regarding Hiromi now. Although I think Hiromi will start to open up and become more like her former 'normal' happy self around Shin once Shin's mom eases off on her. Then everyone can get off her case about being the way she is now.
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Old 2008-02-29, 09:47   Link #94
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Ughhh...This series really has many flame wars...I don't wanna get flamed but I'll give my thoughts...Baseless or with evidence...whatever..
Spoiler for specs:


This series... is really a surprise for me...I think this will be a classic...
Whatever happens I'll stick to find out...
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Old 2008-02-29, 17:12   Link #95
DanielSong39
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Who knows, perhaps Noe's terminal illness and untimely demise will generate True Tears from Shin and open the road for Hiromi.

So far this show has been a textbook Asian drama, so such a development would hardly be a shocker. It would confirm Noe's status as Shin's "angel" and Hiromi's as Shin's eventual love interest.
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Old 2008-02-29, 18:32   Link #96
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Who knows, perhaps Noe's terminal illness and untimely demise will generate True Tears from Shin and open the road for Hiromi.
What terminal illness? The one they're going to all of a sudden spring on us out of nowhere as a plot device to cause unnecessary drama when the show's already got drama in spades? Is there any good storytelling reason whatsoever that Noe has to die to convey this show's message?

You're bluffing...
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Old 2008-02-29, 20:05   Link #97
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
What terminal illness? The one they're going to all of a sudden spring on us out of nowhere as a plot device to cause unnecessary drama when the show's already got drama in spades? Is there any good storytelling reason whatsoever that Noe has to die to convey this show's message?

You're bluffing...
he is just comparing the show to Oriental soap opera show and it seems the "person with the deadly disease" is the only plot device that they have not used yet that is predominant in Oriental Soap epera.
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Old 2008-02-29, 21:56   Link #98
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he is just comparing the show to Oriental soap opera show and it seems the "person with the deadly disease" is the only plot device that they have not used yet that is predominant in Oriental Soap epera.
Well, that may be, but is it seriously common in those soap operas for them to pull this sort of a plot device in the middle of nowhere for no good reason and with not so much of a prior hint of a problem? One would expect that these sorts of things would be woven into the fabric of the story, and not just randomly sprung upon the viewers right before the end. This anime in particular I feel has been pretty good about ensuring that the actions, reactions, and plot devices have been consistent with the theme, motivations, and overall drive of the show. That's why I had to assume that he was bluffing (and, it sounds like, in a sense, that may sort of be what that was).
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Old 2008-02-29, 22:30   Link #99
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Well, that may be, but is it seriously common in those soap operas for them to pull this sort of a plot device in the middle of nowhere for no good reason and with not so much of a prior hint of a problem?
I have only watched two of those and in both there was a person that died from a deadly illness. So going by what I have watched and by what other people say, that plot Device is a "MUST". It is not only in Oriental soap operas, Many american and hispanics soap opera used that plot device.
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Old 2008-02-29, 23:48   Link #100
Kaoru Chujo
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I think it's probably too late for a terminal illness to be dramatically reasonable, but I have always thought Noe looked like a chronic illness kind of character, lol. Just her pinched features and tousled hair.
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