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Old 2008-02-26, 14:42   Link #161
False Dawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juggen View Post
That's bs. They can't know more than any fansubber, and we have all seen how bad some shows can actually turn out to be.

Well, in theory, the guys working for companies like ADV should actually be more knowledgeable about anime (and even manga) than fansubbers -- they've got serious problems if this isn't the case.

And I side with bayoab on this point, and in a circular way, it brings us back to the original question, which we found most people concluded that fansubbing does little, if anything, to help out companies. And it's a definite that companies don't feel fansubbers help them out at all (in fact, they probably mistakenly think the opposite).
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Old 2008-02-26, 15:25   Link #162
ScR3WiEuS
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you guys need to stop seeing things in black and white really.
fansubbing can be both good and bad for the anime industry.
the question is which outweighs which.
and that's a question we can't really answer... nobody can really answer.
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Old 2008-02-26, 17:19   Link #163
bayoab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juggen View Post
That's bs. They can't know more than any fansubber, and we have all seen how bad some shows can actually turn out to be.
During negotiations and before, they have access to production materials and screeners. ADV claims to have licensed a number of shows just based on the storyboards. Remember, typically production on an episode began a month or so before it actually airs. They might not actually finish it until the day before it airs, but it was started a month before.

Quote:
And you can't mean you've never heard of "Try before you buy"?
I can't speak for everyone though, but who spend 30$ on something they don't know jack about?
You watch a trailer for a movie. You play a demo for a game. For music, it was radio and then sample audio. In no other entertainment medium do you try out the entire thing before buying it. With TV, you only buy it because you want to watch it again. (And in Japan, DVDs start while the show is still airing.) Anime is a direct to disk medium in the US for the most part, and yet fans still feel they have a right to the entire show before a single penny is made off of them.

And I can name tons of things you spend $30 on without know much about it at first. Restaurants, game consoles, textbooks.. the list goes on forever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant0 View Post
Without this infomation, or the push for these series to be picked up for later seasons, or to be exported overseas would probably be alot less. Since there would be fewer anime being spoken about, companies may decide to focus more on their most reliable viewer base (kids shows), and ignore everything that can't be converted to kid friendly TV.
(Shortened version) Shows such as IGPX and Duel Monsters were absolute failures over here. Kids shows are not that reliable anymore. Also, your speculation relies heavily on the assumption that the companies actually care about how much noise is being made on a message board. The companies have many metrics that they use. They do not need a show to have been fansubbed to pick it up. Yes, the main way that fansubs still help companies is to point out the diamonds in the rough. Otherwise, the big titles are pretty predictable (Gundam 00, Clannad, etc).

Quote:
If you look, the growing markets for mature (not hentai) anime actually seem so coincide with the rise of the fansubber and the world wide exposure that these series get now.
Up until 2002ish, this was true. Since then, the actual market has been on a roller coaster while fansubs have continued to grow unbounded.
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Old 2008-02-26, 18:15   Link #164
ScR3WiEuS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bayoab View Post
You watch a trailer for a movie. You play a demo for a game. For music, it was radio and then sample audio. In no other entertainment medium do you try out the entire thing before buying it. With TV, you only buy it because you want to watch it again. (And in Japan, DVDs start while the show is still airing.) Anime is a direct to disk medium in the US for the most part, and yet fans still feel they have a right to the entire show before a single penny is made off of them.
Except that...
1. anime shows are longer than movies.
2. so, a short trailer won't always give you an idea of what the show is about
3. if you think "but there's western tv show DVDs." you're right, but you've usually watched them on TV before buying the DVDs.
4. demos are more for gameplay than story. and as games don't usually rely on story to sell, a demo will give you a pretty good idea of what to expect.
5. the first few eps of a show are usually wasted on introductions,etc. in the end, you'll have to invest a LOT more money on a complete show than on a game or movie.

so yah, that's not a very sound argument.

what companies might try, rather than making anime a straight to DVD thing, is set up a cable anime tv channel or streaming website, and make money off advertisement.
the few anime cable channels i've known were piss-poor and badly managed.
cartoon network grew big by airing shitty cartoons 24/7. why can't anime ? most popular cartoons on TV anywhere in the world nowadays are anime shows or anime clones.
of course there's the entire issue that some countries forbid the excessive airing of tv programs that are not domestic. but i'm not sure if that applies to cable or satellite tv.

if anything, the american and japanese companies need to work closer together as to cut costs, especially pertaining to licensing, which is more or less the biggest cost.
both american and japanese companies would profit from it. but elas, american anime companies are horribly managed with utter incompetence, and the japanese are always
uncaring or doubtful about such foreign investments.
imho, the lack of cooperation between american and japanese companies, and american and american companies are the biggest reason for the problems this industry is facing.
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Last edited by ScR3WiEuS; 2008-02-26 at 18:27.
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Old 2008-02-26, 18:28   Link #165
WanderingKnight
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Quote:
what companies might try, rather than making anime a straight to DVD thing, is set up a cable anime tv channel or streaming website, and make money off advertisement.
the few anime cable channels i've known were piss-poor and badly managed.
cartoon network grew big by airing shitty cartoons 24/7. why can't anime ? most popular cartoons on TV anywhere in the world nowadays are anime shows or anime clones.
of course there's the entire issue that some countries forbid the excessive airing of tv programs that are not domestic. but i'm not sure if that applies to cable or satellite tv.
There is a Latin American cable channel broadcasting 24/7 dubbed anime (it's actually Animax, the same Japanese channel), but the quality worse than shit. Not only they air bad shows for the most part, they air them with horrendous dubs, improperly transformed to 4:3, with lowered music... the few shows that are worth watching are completely ruined by the stupid management on charge. I understand the dubbing, but they could, at least, make it sound on par with the music (something which was accomplished AGES ago, and I can't for the life of me understand why they don't do it anymore) and either transform it to 4:3 properly or not transform it at all. It's a blasphemy of a channel, and their commercials show the stereotyped way in which they view the general fandom.

And, sadly enough, many people watch it thinking that's all there is to anime. Sigh.
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Last edited by WanderingKnight; 2008-02-26 at 18:39.
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Old 2008-02-26, 18:32   Link #166
ScR3WiEuS
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yah, that's my point. pitiful attempts like that confirm over and over again how badly those companies are managed.

the cooperation i spoke of should also apply to a potential tv channel. rather than airing the shows only they have licensed or aired, other companies should be allowed to air there.
cooperation and centralizing of the biggest costs will eventually lead to a big decrease in individual costs.
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