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View Poll Results: Favourite Code Geass Characters Poll (Multiple Choice!)
Lelouch Lamperouge / Zero 939 67.41%
Suzaku Kururugi 222 15.94%
C.C. 808 58.00%
Karen Stadtfeld 533 38.26%
Nunally Lamperouge 167 11.99%
Shirley Fenete 207 14.86%
Milly Ashford 173 12.42%
Rivalz Cardemonde 43 3.09%
Nina Einstein 26 1.87%
Lloyd Asplund 212 15.22%
Cecile Croomy 105 7.54%
Cornelia Li Brittania 189 13.57%
Euphemia Li Brittania 210 15.08%
Jeremiah Gottwald 119 8.54%
Viletta Nui 104 7.47%
Diethard Lied 74 5.31%
Shinichirou Tamaki 22 1.58%
Sayoko 73 5.24%
Kyoushirou Toudou 62 4.45%
Clovis La Britannia 38 2.73%
The Emperor 51 3.66%
Authur (the cat) 164 11.77%
Kaname Ougi 40 2.87%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 1393. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-02-29, 14:17   Link #261
SoldierOfDarkness
The Dark Knight
 
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Quote:
Until now finally, he has become what he lectured others about; nothing more than a murderer.
The only person he's murdered was his father and he wants to prevent people from falling into that same hole that he ended up falling into which we are all critizing him for. Does that make him a hypocrite?

Regardless though as Mao pointed out he's all messed up in the head trying to make up for what he did.

Which is interesting because now that he's thrown off the "mask" that people hate him for what kind of person will he be now?
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Old 2008-02-29, 14:20   Link #262
Dann of Thursday
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He'll probably stop trying to justufy everything he does and stop being all happy all the time. His mercy is probably gone completely and he'll do whatever it takes to get the job done. If Lelouch is supposed to become more likable in season 2 than I would expect Suzaku to become more dislikable.

And what Mao pointed out is that he really wasn't concerned about helping people as he was about making himself feel good.
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Old 2008-02-29, 14:21   Link #263
SoldierOfDarkness
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So we are going to critize Suzaku for doing what Lelouch has been doing ever since season 1?
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Old 2008-02-29, 14:23   Link #264
Dann of Thursday
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I don't think it will be like that really. It isn't said what is going to make Lelouch more likable after all. I think Taniguchi would realize that doing something like that wouldn't get the message across.
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Old 2008-02-29, 14:38   Link #265
SoldierOfDarkness
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I thought Lelouch was already likeable enough. He's fighting to make a better and safe world for his sister. Everyone already likes him.

And the message is that if you want to change something you go out to do it right?

Quote:
And what Mao pointed out is that he really wasn't concerned about helping people as he was about making himself feel good.
Which is why he joined the army so he can die on the field because of that guilt.
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Old 2008-02-29, 14:43   Link #266
Dann of Thursday
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Not really. I've seen enough people criticize him to the point where it isn't all that clear exactly how good of a person he is even though some may see it otherwise. I think they may make him seem less dark than he is, though I worry a thing like would be harmful to his character.
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Old 2008-02-29, 14:45   Link #267
SoldierOfDarkness
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The only way I can see that work is if they reverse Lelouch and Suzaku's season 1 attitudes then.

Since in Season 1 Suzaku was always smiling and laughing compared to Lelouch who was more serious and such but I see where your coming from.
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Old 2008-02-29, 14:48   Link #268
Dann of Thursday
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A switch like that would be too drastic a change for both of them I think. While I believe is at his core a kind person, to get rid of everything that makes him who he is would be a bad idea I think.

They'll probably take some middle ground with both of them.
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Old 2008-02-29, 16:18   Link #269
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
The only person he's murdered was his father and he wants to prevent people from falling into that same hole that he ended up falling into which we are all critizing him for. Does that make him a hypocrite?

Regardless though as Mao pointed out he's all messed up in the head trying to make up for what he did.

Which is interesting because now that he's thrown off the "mask" that people hate him for what kind of person will he be now?
When a person kills someone then judges someone else because they did the same thing, then yes that is the very definition of a hypocrite. Also I was just giving a reason as to why so many people dislike Suzaku.
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Old 2008-02-29, 18:50   Link #270
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by Blue_Mercy View Post
When a person kills someone then judges someone else because they did the same thing, then yes that is the very definition of a hypocrite.
Gah haven't seen it in awhile but I don't recall anyone else killing their dads. Are you referring to Clovis' murder or Euphie's?

And a hypocrite is someone who pretends to have principles but behaves otherwise....not sure if Suzaku really falls into that because he seriously wants to kill himself and prevent other people from doing what he did. Forgot which Drama it was that Suzaku wanted to speak out to Lelouch about it.

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Also I was just giving a reason as to why so many people dislike Suzaku.
No it varies actually to the point of them comparing him to Kira
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Old 2008-02-29, 21:59   Link #271
Koshimizu
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
And a hypocrite is someone who pretends to have principles but behaves otherwise... not sure if Suzaku really falls into that because he seriously wants to kill himself and prevent other people from doing what he did. Forgot which Drama it was that Suzaku wanted to speak out to Lelouch about it.
Well, if that's the definition of hypocrite, then Suzaku is the perfect example.
He claimed that he joined the army because he doesn’t want to see people die, but really he's just looking for a place to die.
He claimed that he want to change Britannia from the inside, but really all he wants is to die.
He seriously wants to kill himself. Yes. Does he admit it? No.
He's always covering it up with pretty lies. We know he want to die because Mao dug out this fact. He never admitted it. Never. Not even after Mao dug it out.

Pretends to have principles but behaves otherwise?
That's what Suzaku has always been doing throughout the first season!

You seem to think it's a noble thing to seek death, but forgetting he's doing it while claiming he's doing things for greater good. From the moment we know he want to die, every merit he has done is meaningless, and every ideal he claimed to have is lie. People saving? Change Britannia from the inside? Nah. These sorts of ideals are only lies to cover his true intention- to get killed.

Suzaku is trying to justify himself. Said by the director Taniguchi.

The part that he wanted to speak out to Lelouch was picture drama 9.
Better watch it again, because you're selectively remembering (and twisting) things to make him look good. The whole picture drama is to show us how sick Suzaku is, how he live in the past and couldn't move on, and how he keeps forcing his opinion on others.

He tried to tell Lelouch? Yes. Did Lelouch stop him? No.
Why didn't he say it? Because he's afraid to do so.
And now he's bickering and whining about how things might have changed if he did tell Lelouch.

Who's fault is it, for not saying these words he think are so important?
Suzaku.
Who's paying the price?
Lelouch of course! Who else? It's all so natural!

"Might"s and "if"s. All thinking and nothing practical. He's living in the past and pays no attention to present. Living in regrets and kept dreaming what might happen if he could change the past. And someone else has to pay the price for not living up to his dreamt up world.

Prevent other people from doing what he did? Oh what a pretty excuse. Just because "killing dad" happened to be part of Lelouch's plan, it doesn't mean it'll be totally meaningless and at the end Lelouch will sit there and whine for 7 years like him. He stabbed his dad in a quarrel, thinking it will stop the war but results in Japan conquered. Does Lelouch's plan only include walking into Wakamoto's room and stab him?

Who has the right to foretell Lelouch will fail?
Who has the right to foretell Lelouch will regret it like he did?

Who has the right to judge what is right and what is wrong?

Suzaku of course! Who else? It's all so natural!
Of course Suzaku has every right to judge others! He became omnipotent because he killed his dad!

I killed my dad and regretted it. Therefore anyone, no matter what he do, as long as it involve dad-killing, he will regret it. Therefore I'm stopping you, Lelouch, for your own good. It's even better to leave you dead than to let you do this.
This is Suzaku's reasoning.

We've reached the conclusion- this is wrong. I must correct you. For Nunnally, and for Euphie.
This is the exact line he said in the picture drama.
Out straight insane. Let's see how many twitched thoughts are in this line:
1. What conclusion? Conclusion for what? St. Suzaku say it's conclusion then it's conclusion?
2. Who's to judge what it wrong?
3. Who has the right to "correct" other people? Is Lelouch his son or a pet of his?
4. What does he know about Nunnally's and Euphie's thoughts? Nothing. Nothing at all.
5. For Nunnally and Euphie? Did they ask him to "correct" Lelouch? It's purely revenge. Just say so. Stop wrapping selfish intentions with pretty lies like "for their sake".

[OT]
And before anyone takes Lelouch's "For Nunnally" into argument, I'll explain it first. The sentence is unfinished when he says "for Nunnally":
I'm doing this for Nunnally, therefore I'll move on, no matter what.
I'm doing this for Nunnally, therefore, if Nunnally isn't here, everything I done is meaningless.
He never said it's "right" to do anything because it's for Nunnally. He's only stating the fact that even though he know he will be hated, he will take the blame and move on because he has Nunnally as a support in his heart.
--It's for Nunnally. Therefore I have the strength to move on.
Suzaku's is:
I'm doing this for Nunnally and Euphie, therefore you're wrong and I'll correct you.
--It's for Nunnally. It's for her own good.
See the difference?
[/OT]

And he's out to do it. Forcing his crooked thoughts on others, as always. Using pretty excuses- for the sake of others, as always.

It's like he stumbled on a stone and fell, then sit there and whined for 7 years. (His time stopped. He refused to move on since 7 years ago. This is the fact stated in the picture drama.)
Now he automatically assumes everyone who walk on similar road will also stumble, fall, and whine like him.
(The most important thing is, which road is similar is also decided by him. Whether it's similar or not doen't matter. It's the same because he says so.)
So he will "correct" anyone who tries to walk on it by kicking him off.
It doesn't matter if that person will stumble. Because Suzaku believes he will stumble, then he must stumble, and Suzaku must stop him before he stumble.
And it's for that person's own good. For the good of people around him.

I don't know if there's a word for this kind of person.

Last edited by Koshimizu; 2008-02-29 at 22:41.
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Old 2008-02-29, 23:54   Link #272
ashlay
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you let some of the rage against Suzaku escape your heart Koshimizu?

still, I somewhat wonder if that's Suzaku anymore. (Read: for the love of god Taniguchi, make the pain go away! I never want to see that mental disease pretending to be a human being appear before me ever again! O_<) Even picture drama 9 is basically Boku-Suzaku talking until the very last line. This new Ore-Suzaku though, he might not be a hypocrite who cares about things like right and wrong, he might just be a killer. At least that path was open to Suzaku in the cave, and he can be that in R2 so long as he doesn't pull back from how he acted then.
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Old 2008-03-01, 00:02   Link #273
Dann of Thursday
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A very nice explanation on season 1 Suzaku. I think that depiction is pretty much exactly what Taniguchi wanted us to see in Suzaku's character.

Well, it seems as if he went back into Ore-Suzaku permanently. I think there may be a few parts of the old personality left, but most of it is probably gone.

I am rather curious if he'll still convince people anymore, or just kill them and be done with it. The scene of him in the trailer looked like a cold killer to me.
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Old 2008-03-01, 00:23   Link #274
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Same here, while it will be nice to see him being a badass and a much needed rest from all his preaching, the fact that he no longer has a cause worth believing in anymore will still probably lead me to hate him, even if I might respect him slightly or be amazed by his performance. Lelouch, hopefully, will still possess his moral ambiguity and grand ambitions to keep the show interesting and thought-provoking
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Old 2008-03-01, 00:24   Link #275
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You don't think killing your own father as kid would mentally scar someone and cause them to be irrational? I mean how old was he when he did that? Granted Suzaku is wrong but he clearly has severe mental isssues from what he did so I don't see why people hate him for it. I mean he's certainly not as mentally strong as Lelouch is but him trying to stop someone from walking the same path that in his eyes brings only pain and misery is exactly something to hate someone for? Well I guess so since you do but I can't understand it. In fact I can't see why you can't see it like I do. Oh no am I a Suzaku too? Assuming people will react the way the you do to a situation is human nature.

Of course I'm not suggesting that Suzaku is the hero he thinks he is. He's wonderfully flawed just like nearly every character in the show. That's what Code Geass is.
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Old 2008-03-01, 00:37   Link #276
KrimzonStriker
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Well, at the very least Lelouch accepts his flaws, as will Suzaku in time. Much like Lelouch's comment in episode 5, this war between the two of them and their respective factions will be decided by who wins in the end. Good, Bad, it won't matter one manages to end the other and shape the world as they see fit when it's all said and done. This debate can go on for a while yet, and it's likely we'll never come to a complete agreement about which character is better, what will decide that will be which one who manages to succeed, and that's all. BTW, this lends credibility to Lelouch's arguments if you hadn't noticed
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Old 2008-03-01, 00:37   Link #277
ashlay
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Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
You don't think killing your own father as kid would mentally scar someone and cause them to be irrational? I mean how old was he when he did that? Granted Suzaku is wrong but he clearly has severe mental isssues from what he did so I don't see why people hate him for it. I mean he's certainly not as mentally strong as Lelouch is but him trying to stop someone from walking the same path that in his eyes brings only pain and misery is exactly something to hate someone for? Well I guess so since you do but I can't understand it. In fact I can't see why you can't see it like I do. Oh no am I a Suzaku too? Assuming people will react the way the you do to a situation is human nature.

Of course I'm not suggesting that Suzaku is the hero he thinks he is. He's wonderfully flawed just like nearly every character in the show. That's what Code Geass is.
That's why we who disliked the R1 character don't get angry at the writers, even if we do get extremely angry at Suzaku. He's got motivation and development, and in a weird kind of way he's an even better antagonist because of it. Still, even if as a story element he is well done, as a human being he was horribly flawed and made no effort at improving himself for 7 years.

Now, if Suzaku decides to stop trying to be a wolf in sheep's clothing and just acts like the wolf he is, (since clearly he's not just going to walk away from the stage, from this personal war of his) I think a lot of us are willing to forgive him. But otherwise he's living a lie and is the worst kind of selfish person imaginable: one who refuses to even admit that they're selfish.
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Last edited by ashlay; 2008-03-01 at 00:56.
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Old 2008-03-01, 00:49   Link #278
Koshimizu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
You don't think killing your own father as kid would mentally scar someone and cause them to be irrational? I mean how old was he when he did that? Granted Suzaku is wrong but he clearly has severe mental isssues from what he did so I don't see why people hate him for it.
I perfectly understand the reason why he become a jerk.
But that doesn't change the fact that he became a jerk.

Quote:
I mean he's certainly not as mentally strong as Lelouch is but him trying to stop someone from walking the same path that in his eyes brings only pain and misery is exactly something to hate someone for?
Yes. In his eyes.
Who has the right to judge what is right and what is wrong?
I don't see how people kept missing that.

St. Suzaku decides what will bring misary.
St. Suzaku guide you off the wrong track.

He's forcing his opinion on others, and kill them if they don't agree.
I don't see anything wrong in getting hated for that.

Quote:
Well I guess so since you do but I can't understand it. In fact I can't see why you can't see it like I do. Oh no am I a Suzaku too?
Exactly. Congrats for realizing this.
I can't see why you can't see it like I do. Therefore I'll correct you!
That's exactly Suzaku's thoughts.
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Old 2008-03-01, 18:41   Link #279
Gotank
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Respect to Koshimizu. Essentially you've said everything I hate about Suzaku =)
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Old 2008-03-01, 20:14   Link #280
Dann of Thursday
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Yes, excellent explanation on him. I wonder how he'll be in season 2 though.

Lelouch's progress is something I look forward to as well. C.C. could also use some more development I think and Kallen is pretty much guarenteed to get more development since her story was moved.
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