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Old 2008-03-05, 10:16   Link #301
Wild Goose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaoron View Post
umm....
the... umm....
combat knife isn't manly enough for male asakura....?

if the katana is too long then we could use the shorter ones...
kodachi...?
The United States Marine Corps would like to have a word with you, as would the Navy SEALs, Delta Force, Special Air Service, Special Boat Service, Force Recon, GSG-9 and many, many other organisations.

Especially the Marines. You do not diss either the Holy Pistol made by St. John Moses Browning in front of a Marine, or his K-BAR.

Besides, remember that Male Asakura is a Data Collection Entity. He's not gonna chose a weapon based on manliness, he's going to chose it based on efficiency and suitability to combat. It has been conclusively proven that in an environ such as a classroom, you are better off with a knife.

Kodachi - debatable. Frankly, is it really important to change the knife just for the sake of supposed manliness?

During the Battle of Guadalcanal, Marine Corps Sergeant Mitchell Paige defended an entire hill from the Japanese with just two weapons: his K-BAR, and a Browning .30cal MG. The Japanese who were attacking uphill had more firepower than him and the supposedly more manly katana. http://instapinch.com/?p=739

Incidentally, most katana in WW2 were used to execute defenceless, unarmed prisoners, or for sepukku. The Marines used their K-BARs to kill the enemy.

Still think katana are more badass?

Summation: Katana = debatable manliness. K-BAR = undisputed badass.
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Old 2008-03-05, 10:26   Link #302
Keroko
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To add to Goose, concidering well known 'girls with katana' craze in anime, I highly doupt Katana classify as 'manly'

Combat knives definetely classify as manly.
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Old 2008-03-05, 10:27   Link #303
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(I'd like to see 'Kyon' chuck a manly crowbar at Asakura during that famous showdown...)
Edit: As a cold shower, dkellis made the right point. Whether if Kyon is capable of chucking a chair should not lead to wayward thinking of any sort that would be in conflict with the actual scenarios.

//back to photoshop
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Old 2008-03-05, 10:34   Link #304
dkellis
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Ryou Asakura is attempting to kill Kyonko with a weapon. Personally I don't see why he needs a weapon in the first place, considering his ability to alter reality locally, but the canon has a knife, and apparently the knife is popular enough in fandom to be left into the genderswap.

With this attempted murder, I'm not really seeing a need to switch weapons around such that he's more "manly", or whether the weapon has any bearing on his "manliness". It's attempted murder. "Manliness" should not be a factor in the discussion.
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Old 2008-03-05, 11:12   Link #305
Tangowr
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Kyon-ko singing...XD
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm2522013

Fanservice Kyon-ko


Sos-dan


Kyon-ko



Asakura


Haruki's hair style change


Nagato


Haruki
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Old 2008-03-05, 11:16   Link #306
Wild Goose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkellis View Post
Ryou Asakura is attempting to kill Kyonko with a weapon. Personally I don't see why he needs a weapon in the first place, considering his ability to alter reality locally, but the canon has a knife, and apparently the knife is popular enough in fandom to be left into the genderswap.

With this attempted murder, I'm not really seeing a need to switch weapons around such that he's more "manly", or whether the weapon has any bearing on his "manliness". It's attempted murder. "Manliness" should not be a factor in the discussion.
An admitted sidetrack common to fans who Just Don't Get It (can't find the link to TV tropes.)

I was attempting tongue-in-cheek satire. Doesn't really seem to have worked.

To repeat, As a practical and cultural reason, I would go with the knife. Not only is it easier to use in close quaters, Japan has some sort of liking for knives, and frankly, is there any reason to change it from a knife to a supposedly more manly weapon?
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Old 2008-03-05, 11:24   Link #307
Kinny Riddle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Haruhi dragging Kyon through the hallways by the collar could still be used, I don't see that much of a problem with it. Perhaps for more comedic factor it could have standing and struggling.
That'd be too rough on Kyonko. Just grabbing her wrist and pulling her along so much it hurts would do. And then add in your addition below:

Quote:
Which reminds me, there is also the scene in which Haruhi grabs Kyon's tie when she reqruits him. I figured a comedic shift would be Haruki grabbing Kyonko's shoulders while staring into her eyes, while Kyonko blushingly wonders what the hell he is talking about.
Quote:
Bunny suits... Haruhi's goal was to atract members, I think Haruki would be smart enough to realize that this would have the oposite effect. I'd say find a masculine equivelant. Perhaps sexy surf outfits?
Like I said, Hard Gay constumes. Even the original Haruhi anime series featured a guy cosplaying as Hard Gay. Remember, the bunny girl concept was popularized by Playboy. Hard Gay is quite entrenched in Japanese popular culture now that I don't really see any problem in terms of direct references, IMHO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunny girl wikipedia entry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunny_girl
The Bunny suit is also very popular in Japan, where it has lost much of its association with Playboy. In fact, it has become associated with sexiness in general, where they are referred to as bunny girls (or bunnygirls) and have an association with the female human/animal hybrids common in anime and manga known as kemonomimi. Bunnies should not be confused with Playboy Playmates, women who appear in the centerfold pictorials of Playboy magazine, although a few bunnies went on to become Playmates (see below).
Quote:
As for that scene in volume 2, yes that does lose a lot of its impact. I'll have to think about that one a bit more.
Original Kyon nearly went medieval and smacked Haruhi, but Koizumi came to the rescue.

Please forgive if I even sound slightly sexist (I'm definitely not), though it seems to be more acceptable for a girl to slap a guy in the face then the opposite. So do have Kyonko slap Haruki, and then Itsuki-chan coming up to grab her hand to stop her from slapping Haruki even further, while Haruki looks stunned at this outburst.
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Old 2008-03-05, 11:25   Link #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
An admitted sidetrack common to fans who Just Don't Get It (can't find the link to TV tropes.)
Amusingly, I'm actually browsing (and editing) TVTropes right now. (For those who have no idea what we're talking about, TVTropes Wiki.)

I'm finding it a bit depressing that both my questions in this thread have gone completely ignored.
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Old 2008-03-05, 11:43   Link #309
Kaisos Erranon
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Kyon-ko should be short and DFC and Shana-ish. Adds to her charm.

I don't know what everyone's problem with Haruki is.

Ryou should keep the knife.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkellis View Post
Oh, I don't know. I read someone commenting on Kyonko as "aww, tiny little cute sarcastic person", and it stuck with me. If I may be selfish, I'd say that Kyonko being short is part of the charm for me.

-

Random thoughts:

I had this long list of ways for characters to refer to each other, but I seem to have lost it. So, from what I can remember:

Haruhi to Kyon: "Kyon"
Haruki to Kyonko: "Kyonko" (or "Kyon" or whatever her nickname ends up being)

Kyon to Haruhi: "Suzumiya-san" originally, "Haruhi" after some time
Kyonko to Haruki: The same, I think.

Haruhi to Mikuru: "Mikuru-chan"
Haruki to Mitsuru/Minoru/whatever: I don't know. "Minoru"? "Minoru-kun"? "Asahina"? "Asahina-kun"?

Haruhi to Koizumi: "Koizumi"
Haruki to Koizumi: "Koizumi-san", perhaps. Just "Koizumi" sounds a bit strange.

Haruhi to Yuki: "Yuki"
Haruki to Yuuki: "Yuuki" or "Yuuki-kun"? Or "Nagato-kun"?

Kyon to Yuki: "Nagato-san"
Kyonko to Yuuki: The same, probably.

Kyon to Mikuru: "Asahina-san"
Kyonko to Minoru: Probably the same, or "Asahina-sempai".

Kyon to Koizumi: "Koizumi"
Kyonko to Koizumi: Good question. Will address in a bit.

As far as I can tell, Koizumi, Nagato, and Asahina address everyone around them as "surname-san", except for Kyon. Asahina calls Kyon "Kyon-kun", and I don't remember Koizumi and Nagato ever addressing Kyon by (nick)name at all. If they did, it's probably "Kyon", but I need to check that.

Gender flip that, and it's likely to stay the same, except for Kyonko and Koizumi. From what I can tell, usually when female students address their female friends, it's on a first-name basis, with "-chan" occasionally, or maybe a cutesy nickname. When they're being polite to each other (whether because they don't know each other that well, or it's just their nature), it becomes "surname-san" again. So Tsuruya calls Mikuru "Mikuru-chan", and Mikuru calls Tsuruya "Tsuruya-san".

So, would Female Koizumi call Kyonko "Kyon", or "Kyon-chan"? Would Kyonko call Female Koizumi "Koizumi-san", or by her first name? Or maybe even just "Koizumi", like in the canon?
Haruhi calls Koizumi "Koizumi-kun" in the original. Kyon usually calls Yuki as "Nagato" and "Nagato-san" when feeling extra respecful.

Kyon-ko will probably call Koizumi "Koizumi".

In any case, we need to agree on names here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy View Post
This discussion is really starting to tickle my sociology fetish. It's clearly much more than crazed fans run amok at this point.
You too?


Guys, I plan to write Chapter 1 today, so you'll see my ideas then.
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Old 2008-03-05, 12:02   Link #310
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Kyon-ko should be short and DFC and Shana-ish. Adds to her charm.

I don't know what everyone's problem with Haruki is.

Ryou should keep the knife.
DFC? But Shana-ish... how much Shana-ish? I don't really see Kyonko as the 'urusai' type. Like Kyon, she's more the logical thinker type.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Haruhi calls Koizumi "Koizumi-kun" in the original. Kyon usually calls Yuki as "Nagato" and "Nagato-san" when feeling extra respecful.

Kyon-ko will probably call Koizumi "Koizumi".

In any case, we need to agree on names here...
I think we're mostly agreed on Haruki and Kyonko.

Yuki becoming Yuuki strikes my fancy as well. Nagato could become Nagato-kun.

Itsuki is can be used as a female first name, so I don't really see a need to change this (chan can be added when we need to differ the two)

Mikuru... I like Mitsuru myself.
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Old 2008-03-05, 12:07   Link #311
Poulp
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Greetings

as the saying goes, I'm a long time lurker first poster.

I registered for the sole purpose of thanking you guys who participate in this mind-blowing brain-storming thread.
I thank you because I can feel my inspiration is coming back. I'm planning to write some fanfiction loosely based upon what I read so far. (although considering my writing speed, don't except to read it so soon...)


Now, my view on the knife/katana for Asakura.

I'd go for the knife too. For various reasons:

1/ it fits into a schoolbag (does humanoid interfaces ever get that kind of problem ?)
2/ katanas conveys the image of swordfights, with two opponents clashing. The knife conveys a more plain, brutal image; a murder on a defenseless victim. Male or female, Kyon is the innocent, defenseless victim in this scene.
To sum it up, katanas are more "graphic", knife are more frightening
3/ as a writer, I could introduce some thougths like
"Does he intend to slash my clothes and rape me ?" or,
"What's with that knife ? Will he try to scar my face ? Hold on, he said "kill you" didn't he ?"
See #2, in this scene, before Nagato appears, there's no action, the stress is put on fear rather than actual, physical violence.
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Old 2008-03-05, 12:09   Link #312
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On the Haruki dragging Kyonko everywhere thing, I once suggested that Haruki just pick Kyonko up and carry her off. Haruki's strong enough to lift Kyonko's small body, and this could be funny in more ways than one.

Edit: I am quite smitten after this one:

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Old 2008-03-05, 12:23   Link #313
tshouryuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
I finished my first draft of the prologue, but I think I made Kyon-ko a bit too feminine with all the shojou references...

Tell me what you guys think.


Spoiler:


Also, RmX, that scene that he's referring to in Vol 2. is the one where Kyon tries to hit Haruhi... somehow we're going to have to change that.
Hmm... Interesting but this version of Kyouko (or is it Kyonko?) doesn't sound snarky enough. The parts about getting kidnapped sounds rather too girlish(?) and doesn't quite convey the deadpanned tone of Kyon like the original if you get what I mean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bean Bandit View Post
*Ponders*

I have been considering the issue of 'Haruki' being an ill fitting piece of this puzzle. While I applaud the concept of Modeling him on Kamina and The Ouran male lead, I think he might be a little too generic still.

What I'm advocating is...in addition to Kamina and Tamaki...Mix in a dash of Sousuke Sagara as well?

Perhaps not so deadly serious, but an encyclopedic knowledge of Anime and Fiction devoted to his favorite subjects leaves him short on common sense? (The Cosplay Rape Scene with Mitsuuru makes me want to see Haruki tell Kyon-ko that crossdressers are a very important factor with groups of this kind)

As for the Why...Haruki, as he's shaping up right now, doesn't seem as likable as Haruhi. Her aggressiveness translates badly into a male character. (I think this has been said before) If we add something of an endearing blind spot to explain it (Like obviously having watched far too many anime: Something Haruhi {Female} Could also be said to have done, given her impromtu lecture on moe, in the anime, Kyon-ko might be less aggressively inclined. As in "He's not a Jerk, he's just an idiot.")

Side note: Kyon-ko muttering 'Baka' Ala Ruri Hoshino from Nadesico is too cute. @_@

Also, I would like to voice a vote against any influence from Shana in Kyon-ko's evolution. Her Charm comes from Worldweary Sarcasm and aplomb with which she tackles life. There are already far too many Tsunderes that yell and hit things, IMO.
Actually my suggestion for making Haruki is to not mix in Sousuke Sagara but Izumi Konata instead. The result is that you'll more or less get a GAR version of an otaku which might be an interesting character.

Btw instead of trying to think of the male equivalent of a bunny suit why not just put Minoru in the bunny suit (creating a trap for real) and have Kyonko join him after getting guilt tripped by Haruki.
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Old 2008-03-05, 12:29   Link #314
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX View Post
On the Haruki dragging Kyonko everywhere thing, I once suggested that Haruki just pick Kyonko up and carry her off. Haruki's strong enough to lift Kyonko's small body, and this could be funny in more ways than one.
Agreed. Imagine Haruki lifting Kyonko into his arms, carry her off and putting her down, after which he puts his hands onto her shoulders and stares deeply into her eyes while saying "assist me."

I can think up a legion of ways for Kyonko to completely misunderstand the situations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX View Post
Edit: I'm am quite smitten after this one:

You too? I dare say its the most charming image of Kyonko in my folder so far.
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Old 2008-03-05, 12:41   Link #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Agreed. Imagine Haruki lifting Kyonko into his arms, carry her off and putting her down, after which he puts his hands onto her shoulders and stares deeply into her eyes while saying "assist me."

I can think up a legion of ways for Kyonko to completely misunderstand the situations.
Kyonko cannot deny those shoujo fantasies that she currently loves to hate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
You too? I dare say its the most charming image of Kyonko in my folder so far.
Nyaa~ (This thread is turning me into strange things....)
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Old 2008-03-05, 12:50   Link #316
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Last edited by panzerfan; 2008-03-05 at 13:09.
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Old 2008-03-05, 12:51   Link #317
DJ_RockmanX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfan View Post
mmm... still too much like real Kyon's face. I can't fantasize yet.
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Old 2008-03-05, 12:51   Link #318
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX View Post
Kyonko cannot deny those shoujo fantasies that she currently loves to hate.
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX View Post
Nyaa~ (This thread is turning me into strange things....)
You're imagining things. Everything is fine.

Another subject I would like to adress is Haruki's reason for capturing Mitsuru. I believe it was discussed before that he'd do so to make him more GAR. I disagree with this decision. Haruhi originally captured Mikuru to serve as a 'cute mascot' Mitsuru can still fill this role, only this time to atract the female part (he has Kyonko suplying the atraction for the male part) girls are inherently atracted to cute things, and Mitsuru is nothing if not cute.
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Old 2008-03-05, 12:52   Link #319
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tshouryuu View Post
Hmm... Interesting but this version of Kyouko (or is it Kyonko?) doesn't sound snarky enough. The parts about getting kidnapped sounds rather too girlish(?) and doesn't quite convey the deadpanned tone of Kyon like the original if you get what I mean.
Have you read the original novels? Most of the deadpan-ness and sarcastic tone was because of Tomokazu Sugita's voice, if you ask me.

Being female automatically makes her a bit more feminine, ya know. I plan to have her mention that she's mostly grown out of those fantasies, though.


As for the whole Shana-ish thing, I meant physically.
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Old 2008-03-05, 12:54   Link #320
Raijinken
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I find it humorous (and a little sad) that it seems the near majority of images of Kyon-ko are some form of fanservice.

Not that I'm complaining, however. Mmmmm... yuri...

And as for Kyon-ko sounding snarky, keep in mind nobody's talking to her, or saying very VERY stupid or half-baked things to her that are either doomed to fail, or will end in horrid embarassment for Mitsuru. (I like that name too.) Normally people don't sound like it's troublesome when they're offering their opinion.

Besides, in the origional series, Kyon isn't always like that either. He's proven he can be pleasent at times. Normally those times are when Haruhi gets a face full of grass, but whatever.

No wories. If I know Kaisos (and I do.), he will personally see to it that Kyon-ko is more sarcastic then a room full of cheerleaders. Said cheerleaders were just asked out by a D&D nerd (Nothing against the game). That makes for a potental sarcasm H-bomb.

Oh, also, Kyon had a fetish for ponytails. Sly bastard. What does Kyon-ko like?

...Yes, I just realized that question might take days to answer...

EDIT: Just saw the Kyon-koxYuki picture which was posted AS I DID THIS. As a fanboy, I now have a fetish for THAT. *Cuteness induced seizure*
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