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View Poll Results: Shakugan no Shana II - Episode 20 Rating
Perfect 10 62 57.94%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 30 28.04%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 11 10.28%
7 out of 10 : Good 2 1.87%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 2 1.87%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 107. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-03-05, 16:42   Link #121
Anh_Minh
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Yeah. So far, Sabbrac is boring. Too invulnerable and talkative.

That's not to say that watching Wilhelmina fight him isn't entertaining. But Sabbrac himself? Meh.
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Old 2008-03-05, 18:08   Link #122
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I like the talkative part. It gives him a sort of charm.
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Old 2008-03-05, 19:06   Link #123
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I think the problem is that you guys are taking opinions too fast. We have seen Sabbrac basically just in this episode, and some are saying he is the best villain and some don't like him. At least that is my opinion.

Well, I just hope he survives and appears on more episodes, I want to see more of him.
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Old 2008-03-05, 21:09   Link #124
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Originally Posted by ProtoMan View Post
Hmm... I guess I'll have to be the odd ball on not finding Sabrac awesome. He relies on his infinite lives hack way too much, he commited way too many blunders IMHO (I mean, he died 3-4 times already), he relies more on spam attacks rather than accuracy, and gets a little too related with his victim to be an assasin. I mean, he's cool and all, but I found Friagne or Metamorphosis to be much more calculating and precise into what they did.
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Yeah. So far, Sabbrac is boring. Too invulnerable and talkative.

That's not to say that watching Wilhelmina fight him isn't entertaining. But Sabbrac himself? Meh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisuke06 View Post
I think the problem is that you guys are taking opinions too fast. We have seen Sabbrac basically just in this episode, and some are saying he is the best villain and some don't like him. At least that is my opinion.

Well, I just hope he survives and appears on more episodes, I want to see more of him.
I just realised something; Comparing all the previous villains in the season itself that had met up with the Flame Haze gang, NONE of them actually survived (except for Pheles, if you count her as a villain, that is) and most importantly, they didn't even make a real impact on the show aside from Zarovee and Bifrons, who served to bring an even greater villain in (well, technically Zarovee did act as a foil for Yuji to realise that he was lying to himself all the time, but that's about it).

After complaints regarding the earlier episodes of being horrifyingly slow and Konoe-laden with what people consider 'little relation to the entire plot', it isn't all that surprising that when someone comes along to give us a good piece of action, some of us will go a little overboard with the praise or simply consider a 'boring' villain to be the best.

How long has Wilhelmina lived as a Flame Haze? Perhaps at least a thousand years? I'm inclined to believe that Sabrac has a longer lifespan than her, and when your job gets a little too easy it tends to get boring somewhere along those millenia-odd years.

Ahn_Minh might be right in saying Sabrac is too boring; No backstory is what I find boring, though, since it's even more boring watching the Flame Hazes destroy their opponents with relative ease. In a way, I find watching a struggling Wilhelmina trying to a find a way to beat an opponent she was unable to ever since they met interesting.
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Old 2008-03-05, 21:27   Link #125
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Anyone wonder why the villians in Shana let your opponents talk so much and give chance after chance to the enemy? (Well not just Shana, really almost all Anime).

It annoys me a lot to sit there and think how stupid these villians are. What kind of assassin takes 25+ minutes to kill an opponent?

Anyone know of an Anime where the Villians are truely evil and smart? But then I guess the story would end. I would just like to see an Anime reflecting how it would turn out in real life where the enemy really goes for the kill at the first opening.
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Old 2008-03-05, 21:40   Link #126
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so wats with the silver flamed guy, i thought he was named sabrac instead of this assasin?
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Old 2008-03-05, 21:45   Link #127
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so wats with the silver flamed guy, i thought he was named sabrac instead of this assasin?
The silver-flamed guy is called "Silver". He's the suit of armor dude that tried to bust out of Yuji's stomach for whatever reason. He's been talked about in the series since Margery's appearance in season one.
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Old 2008-03-05, 21:46   Link #128
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Episode 20 is the best episode in the series in terms of action so far.
Zabrac is powerful, totally overwhelming and with an interesting personality too. I wonder how'd they defeat someone that strong?

I'm fairly impressed at Wilhelmina as well for standing up to Zabrac, although it seems she has almost no chance alone.
Maybe on 21 they'd all fight Sabrac and they'd manage to win somehow.
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Old 2008-03-05, 21:52   Link #129
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Originally Posted by Liddo-kun View Post
Episode 20 is the best episode in the series in terms of action so far.
Zabrac is powerful, totally overwhelming and with an interesting personality too. I wonder how'd they defeat someone that strong?
Attack his weakpoint for Massive Damage. And/or disable whatever gimmick allows him to seemingly keep coming back (doppelganger generator? ), assuming it isn't as simple as "he's just that good".
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Old 2008-03-05, 22:56   Link #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tntrulez View Post
Anyone wonder why the villians in Shana let your opponents talk so much and give chance after chance to the enemy? (Well not just Shana, really almost all Anime).

It annoys me a lot to sit there and think how stupid these villians are. What kind of assassin takes 25+ minutes to kill an opponent?

Anyone know of an Anime where the Villians are truely evil and smart? But then I guess the story would end. I would just like to see an Anime reflecting how it would turn out in real life where the enemy really goes for the kill at the first opening.
Plenty of shows are like that. Bond movies, in particular, where the villain harps on about his plan to destroy the world via some giant laser or crashing a meteor into the Earth to establish a new world order or...Whatever, you get the point.

I'm pretty sure it will be quite entertaining if, let's say, Sabrac, Syndonay or even Bel-Peol doesn't say a single word, charges in wordlessly and fights a battle with our heroes. I mean, hey, it isn't interesting if villains actually have some personalities, right?

I'm not trying to putting you down, seirously, but through dialogue and conversation for the characters in a story, you can ascertain what kind of personality the character has and how he reacts in different situations. No dialogue, no interaction and all we have is action, action and action. Where's the depth of character?

Obviously, Sabrac would be viewed as more professional if he just ignored Wilhelmina's questions and went in for the kill, but this is entertainment and bits of information for the audiences, else certain viewers who might feel as though Sabrac's appearance was totally random would consider it a big plot hole.
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Old 2008-03-05, 23:00   Link #131
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This episode was incredibly awesome, the action was top-notch and I almost pulled a Darth Vader when the episode ended.

Sabrac is awesome, gotta love a villain with style, Wilhelmina sure is awesome as well, definitely nice to see her pull out such awesome moves.
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Old 2008-03-06, 01:35   Link #132
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Comparing all the previous villains in the season itself that had met up with the Flame Haze gang, NONE of them actually survived (except for Pheles, if you count her as a villain, that is) and most importantly, they didn't even make a real impact on the show aside from Zarovee and Bifrons, who served to bring an even greater villain in (well, technically Zarovee did act as a foil for Yuji to realise that he was lying to himself all the time, but that's about it).
Hecate's and Fecor's lawyers will subpoena you for defamation and minimizing their client's merits though
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Old 2008-03-06, 02:29   Link #133
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Originally Posted by KaneDragon View Post
The silver-flamed guy is called "Silver". He's the suit of armor dude that tried to bust out of Yuji's stomach for whatever reason. He's been talked about in the series since Margery's appearance in season one.
Actually, the silver-flamed guy has no name, people just call him "the Silver" in place of his complete anonymity.

I don't find Sabrac boring, he's fine. The fight lasting more than this episode after taking up almost its entirety just bothers me.
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Old 2008-03-06, 05:19   Link #134
Kiyoru
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I thought this episode was excellent. The fights with Carmel and Sabrac were awesome, and the stigma thingy makes things really interesting.

Does anyone know how many episodes there's gonna be in S2? Or is it 24 like S1?
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Old 2008-03-06, 05:23   Link #135
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Hecate's and Fecor's lawyers will subpoena you for defamation and minimizing their client's merits though
My bad. Forgot about them. Then again, I didn't really bother about them because they are here to stay IMO, at least until the Flame Hazes take them all out somehow.

@ Kiyoru: It's 24 episodes.
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Old 2008-03-06, 09:09   Link #136
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Hmm... I guess I'll have to be the odd ball on not finding Sabrac awesome. He relies on his infinite lives hack way too much, he commited way too many blunders IMHO (I mean, he died 3-4 times already), he relies more on spam attacks rather than accuracy, and gets a little too related with his victim to be an assasin. I mean, he's cool and all, but I found Friagne or Metamorphosis to be much more calculating and precise into what they did.
You aren't the odd ball. Certainly, I felt that episode mediocre to core.

First, the power level was incredibly off. Wilhelmina had like an incredible stamina despite the wounds and Stigma applied, plus the fact she has to keep defense and levitation on both herself and Yuuji (that said, since when Wilhelmina could have such float power for so long?).
Wilhelmina hardly changed/trained much from the start. Despite this, she is like two times or even thrice as "powerful/combative" than in season one.

Second, is like you said, Sabrac is hardly an assassin. He is basically a spammer which is more like a diversion than anything else.
For my taste however, it is even worse when Sabrac is so talkative and extremely laid back. FFS, I don't get why he indulge himself in such ridiculous and meaningless talk, but also such passive stance during the "chases" (no seriously, surfing on his flame was the most ridiculous scenes ever in this episode).

While wilhelmina was commendable on her tenacity, it is moot when her opponent is such a slowpoke tank like he is.

Finally, the animation of this episode was truely back on season 1: tons of still shot, recycled animation, giant flame to mask blunders etc.
This episode was hardly thrilling and it was even worse with stupid tidbits like Shana and Kazumi chit chatting in such situation (i would have expected alastor scolding her hard, but nope), etc.

In term of "awesomeness", Belpeol and Sydonay are way much better in term of adrenaline. And Friagne is largely more sly and prepared than sabrac. Heck, I even felt Friagne "passive" stance in season one (not the movie though) much more convincing than sabrac all together.

A mediocre episode earning a 4 in my books.
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Old 2008-03-06, 10:21   Link #137
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First, the power level was incredibly off. Wilhelmina had like an incredible stamina despite the wounds and Stigma applied, plus the fact she has to keep defense and levitation on both herself and Yuuji (that said, since when Wilhelmina could have such float power for so long?).
Wilhelmina hardly changed/trained much from the start. Despite this, she is like two times or even thrice as "powerful/combative" than in season one.
That's debatable. If Wilhelmina is as strong as she's suppose to be, her "float power" should be as long, if not more than Margery or Shana. How is she supposedly twice or thrice as powerful in Season 1? While fighting Bel-Peol? While trying to kill Yuji? In either case she wasn't able to use her power to its fullest extent (the former being that she had been given a handicap, while the latter was the fact that Yuji was practically defenseless at that time, while Shana had been in the way most of the time whenever she could).

I wouldn't ignore the possibility that this episode might actually be meant as an excuse for her to take the spotlight in action scenes, though. When it comes to nitpicking for detail and consistency, it would admittingly feel a little contrived with the way they fought (Makes me wonder how she dished it out with Sabrac in the novels, and if it was truly so explosive and grand as that).

Quote:
For my taste however, it is even worse when Sabrac is so talkative and extremely laid back. FFS, I don't get why he indulge himself in such ridiculous and meaningless talk, but also such passive stance during the "chases" (no seriously, surfing on his flame was the most ridiculous scenes ever in this episode).
I get the impression he was toying with them and might actually be waiting for the Stigma to slowly take greater effect before he can slay his targets as and when he likes it. The next episode is welcomed to prove me wrong, though.
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Old 2008-03-06, 11:07   Link #138
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Actually, the silver-flamed guy has no name, people just call him "the Silver" in place of his complete anonymity.
Exactly. People call him "Silver". How is this any different from what I just said?

Anyway, the important point here is that he is not the new guy, Sabrac.
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Old 2008-03-06, 18:48   Link #139
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Exactly. People call him "Silver". How is this any different from what I just said?
Ugh, I read "called" as "named". *whacks his own autistic head*
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Old 2008-03-07, 22:02   Link #140
holyman282
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I watched ep 20 and i have to say the action was quite nice but Sabrac's fighting style lacks variety. Wilhemina was interesting on the other hand as she uses all sorts of tactics to defeat Sabrac.

The one thing I have a problem with was why was Shana Calmly talking to Yoshida when she could sense that Wilhemina was fighting against Sabrac one of the strongest King of Guze? Also considering that Yuji is with Wilhemina I would of expected Shana to fly to their side...
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