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View Poll Results: Shakugan no Shana II - Episode 21 Rating
Perfect 10 85 63.43%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 35 26.12%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 8 5.97%
7 out of 10 : Good 1 0.75%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 2.24%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.75%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.75%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-03-09, 06:09   Link #61
Machina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokkan View Post
A hero who lacks a moral code, and normally has the attitude of a battle scarred badass.
Sounds a lot like Margery to me.
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Old 2008-03-09, 06:25   Link #62
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I agree with cnnydz about the reasons why JC staff rushed the SnS 2 and ZnT 2, however, I do not think they will be getting that much of profit from ZnT 2 season - the drop of quality in second season turn quite a few numbers of ZNT 1 season fans off. Thus the income isn't as high as one could have been expecting after the success of season one, so rushing the ZnT 2 is hardly that profitable. Nor japanese nor other anime fans are that stupid to pay much for the rushed crap that ZnT 2 turned out to be.

It still roles on the + side but not by much

On the other hand - terrible 2 season of ZNT increased the popularity of novels, right now in japanese market the Znt Novels are on a very high roll, as many people turn back to novels after the failure of second season.

As far as SnS goes - it is one of the most profitable projects of JC staff, maybe the most profitable, even the second season though rushed at some points is just as popular as the first one was. And the income, as far as I know, are pretty good from it and look promising in the future as well.

So yeah, SnS 2 rushing did payed off for JC Staff, but ZnT 2 was not really that good in terms of income.

As for other complaining about second SnS season - sure it could have been better, but again it could have been worse (something like ZnT 2). So far I think it is an average season, has bads has goods.

And about KyoAni - well this studio produce much higher quality than JC Staff will ever be able to. thats why their projects are so successful, and thats why they can wait more before releasing another season - they are just much better studio than JC Staff.
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Old 2008-03-09, 15:28   Link #63
The Real Nemo
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Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek View Post
...not really. Anti-heroes are characters who act like villains (or have the traits commonly associated with a villain) yet are for various reasons aligned on the side of the protagonists. The Flame Haze are very firmly set in the ordinary hero category.

There is a significant anti-hero in Shana but he hasn't shown up yet. Here's a hint.
Flame Haze in general have been portrayed as perfectly willing to sacrifice a few people here and there for the sake of their mission to keep the balance between the worlds, even Shana demonstrated this early on during the Friagne arc. That seems pretty anti-hero to me.
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Old 2008-03-09, 16:05   Link #64
Malintex_Terek
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That seems pretty anti-hero to me.
Only if you rank the Flame Haze up against ridiculous Gundam SEED standards. An anti-hero has to have villainous characteristics, not something like that is usually done for the greater good.

An anti-hero would:

1. Sacrifice many people for the few.
2. Sacrifice 100 people to save 100 people.

A villain would:

3. Sacrifice people for no particular reason or a false one.

The powers of the Quincy in Bleach are something an anti-hero would have. They save humans by killing off Hollows, but they risk spiritual balance since they actually destroy the spirits, though they don't care. This is compared to the Shinigami powers which only seal spirits.
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Old 2008-03-09, 17:30   Link #65
The Real Nemo
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Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek View Post
Only if you rank the Flame Haze up against ridiculous Gundam SEED standards. An anti-hero has to have villainous characteristics, not something like that is usually done for the greater good.

An anti-hero would:

1. Sacrifice many people for the few.
2. Sacrifice 100 people to save 100 people.

A villain would:

3. Sacrifice people for no particular reason or a false one.

The powers of the Quincy in Bleach are something an anti-hero would have. They save humans by killing off Hollows, but they risk spiritual balance since they actually destroy the spirits, though they don't care. This is compared to the Shinigami powers which only seal spirits.
An anti-hero doesn't necessarily have to have villainous characteristics, just ones that are adverse to traditional heroism. I don't know about you, but I would never consider someone who treats human life the way most Flame Haze do to be heroic.
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Old 2008-03-09, 20:56   Link #66
Proto
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According to Dungeons and Dragons alignment lore I'd put most flame haze's somewhere between lawful neutral (with some having some chaotic tendencies, but still lawful, like Margery), since in most of their cases they care nothing about the greater good, and just about maintaining the balance (aka the order). I wouldn't put the Guze no Tomogara in the evil alignment though (at least not in their entirety, and just put them as chaotic beings, being more neutral than evil in term of Good/Evil axis. In fact, the war in Shakugan no Shana has always stroken me more as Lawful vs Chaos rather than Good vs Evil. Meaning that by the nature of the plot we get a lot of antivillians and antiheroes rather than pure villians or heroes in this show.

Last edited by Proto; 2008-03-09 at 21:06.
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Old 2008-03-09, 21:17   Link #67
CapoExecutor
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There's always been a lot of gray and nothing is ever in black and white regarding the Guze as a whole.

The perspectives regarding the goals being taken upon by the Flame Hazes, the Balle Masque, and the other players conflict with each other on and off.

Question would be on who the real bad guys are. Perhaps there aren't any or they have yet to reveal themselves.

For now, the fog of war containing the anti-heroes and anti-villians isn't very clear.
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Old 2008-03-10, 13:00   Link #68
Kristen
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...



That was basically my reaction at the end of this episode. In other words, this was quite possibly the best episode of the entire series, including Season 1.
The battle choreography for one of the first times this season was believable, was definately moving in the right direction, and kept me on my chair the entire time.
There was only 1 of the overly dramatic moments in the entire episode (New low for SII), and even that was shaky ground.
The explanation of the plot was phenomenal, almost Death Note level.
And the best thing about this episode: The background music. The selection of the music was absolutely amazing, and it made me almost burst out in joy a couple times.

Other good things about this episode was a very strong Kazumi showing, and Shana NOT confessing. Especially at the end, I definately saw some love between Kazumi and Yuji, but nothing from Yuji's end with Shana.

There is no way I can give this episode anything less than a 10. That may be the first of the series for me, I'm not sure.

I guess the last 3 will be about the silver and finishing up the love story, since I don't think JC Staff would want to try a season 3 with so little material left.
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Old 2008-03-10, 13:14   Link #69
Midonin
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That was EPIC. Shana's sudden appearance in battle, seeing so much cooperation and effort...playing "JOINT" on top of it all just made it perfect. Even better was that it ended with Shana's "Urusai, urusai, urusai!". I really missed hearing her say that. Wonderful episode all around really.

10/10
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Old 2008-03-10, 13:15   Link #70
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Originally Posted by ChrissieXD View Post
...



That was basically my reaction at the end of this episode. In other words, this was quite possibly the best episode of the entire series, including Season 1.
The battle choreography for one of the first times this season was believable, was definately moving in the right direction, and kept me on my chair the entire time.
There was only 1 of the overly dramatic moments in the entire episode (New low for SII), and even that was shaky ground.
The explanation of the plot was phenomenal, almost Death Note level.
And the best thing about this episode: The background music. The selection of the music was absolutely amazing, and it made me almost burst out in joy a couple times.

Other good things about this episode was a very strong Kazumi showing, and Shana NOT confessing. Especially at the end, I definately saw some love between Kazumi and Yuji, but nothing from Yuji's end with Shana.

There is no way I can give this episode anything less than a 10. That may be the first of the series for me, I'm not sure.

I guess the last 3 will be about the silver and finishing up the love story, since I don't think JC Staff would want to try a season 3 with so little material left.
I personally don't see the love story being finished yet, I mean J.C has to wait patiently for more novels to be published so that they can make a Season 3, they could make an anime original ending for the season, but not the series, so they're gonna have to make a Season 3...guess that means more waiting for us fans...
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Old 2008-03-10, 13:22   Link #71
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I personally don't see the love story being finished yet, I mean J.C has to wait patiently for more novels to be published so that they can make a Season 3, they could make an anime original ending for the season, but not the series, so they're gonna have to make a Season 3...guess that means more waiting for us fans...
Well, honestly, this season really tired me out of Shana, so to be honest, I don't want any more episodes. I'll be forced to watch it if they make any more, and I really don't want that.

But, I mean, it's not impossible to end it. Especially since from the preview it says that they will be making a confession letter next episode. Ending it is simple. Have them confess, Yuji picks Kazumi, Shana goes into a suicidal battle with Bal Masque and dies, but not before killing Bel Peol, Margery gets her final victory over the Silver, and Yuji kills Hecate. Happy end!
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Old 2008-03-10, 13:25   Link #72
DeotoxSlayer
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Originally Posted by ChrissieXD View Post
Well, honestly, this season really tired me out of Shana, so to be honest, I don't want any more episodes. I'll be forced to watch it if they make any more, and I really don't want that.

But, I mean, it's not impossible to end it. Especially since from the preview it says that they will be making a confession letter next episode. Ending it is simple. Have them confess, Yuji picks Kazumi, Shana goes into a suicidal battle with Bal Masque and dies, but not before killing Bel Peol, Margery gets her final victory over the Silver, and Yuji kills Hecate. Happy end!
And then J.C get bombed by crazed fans what a happy ending.

Seriously, it's completly impossible to end it in this season, and if they do do it(and in the process get bombed) then it's not gonna be anything like what you put there becuase then they'd have to throw away all of the good story points in the latest novels(believe me you'd want to see those episodes animated)
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Old 2008-03-10, 13:39   Link #73
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And then J.C get bombed by crazed fans what a happy ending.

Seriously, it's completly impossible to end it in this season, and if they do do it(and in the process get bombed) then it's not gonna be anything like what you put there becuase then they'd have to throw away all of the good story points in the latest novels(believe me you'd want to see those episodes animated)
Alternative Universe OVA for Novel 18? Do it like KGNE.
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Old 2008-03-10, 13:40   Link #74
DeotoxSlayer
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Alternative Universe OVA for Novel 18? Do it like KGNE.
impossible, we don't even know how many more novel will be written, but as of the last novel we can guess that there'll be quite a few more novels to be written.
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Old 2008-03-10, 13:51   Link #75
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Originally Posted by ChrissieXD View Post
Alternative Universe OVA for Novel 18? Do it like KGNE.
How can there be an OVA for a novel that hasn't been written yet
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Old 2008-03-10, 14:12   Link #76
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Urusai, urusai, urusai!

Nothing much to say that hasn't already, so I won't bore you all by repeating it. This episode has everything that defines Shakugan no Shana as a great series. It's a shame there haven't been many others of this caliber in season 2.
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Old 2008-03-10, 14:18   Link #77
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How can there be an OVA for a novel that hasn't been written yet
Oh, I thought 18 was out... Whatever the last one was.
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Old 2008-03-10, 15:01   Link #78
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Nice music in the backround. OP 1 played in the battle, was quite nice.

First time in a while we hear Shana saying "Urusai urusai urusai!" aswell.
Great episode.
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Old 2008-03-10, 15:04   Link #79
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Oh, I thought 18 was out... Whatever the last one was.
They're still on Volume 16, and they are quite a few more volumes to be written before SnS ends for good, there is going to be a third season, SnS is J.C's biggest money make there's no way they're stupid enough not to make a third season, especially when there'll be plent of material left to make one.
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Old 2008-03-10, 15:17   Link #80
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Wonderful episode like others have said...I even actually liked the placement of the insert song and ofcourse best of all urusaix3 is back.

Shame it looks like where going back to the...ugh...love triangle. Think ill just wait awhile before I bother watching the rest of this season...
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