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View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 22 Rating
Perfect 10 151 62.66%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 52 21.58%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 22 9.13%
7 out of 10 : Good 9 3.73%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 0.83%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.41%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.41%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.41%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 0.83%
Voters: 241. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-03-14, 14:57   Link #641
MooMooFarm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
How many different ways are there to show the GN-X's doing that circular rotation?

I mean with those it's just there I don't see it being detrimental to the entire series.
How many ways are there to show a Flag transforming in mid air? Oh wait, they've never recycled it. Get creative buddy.

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And if your that nitpicking they reused the scene where the Artillery Tieren fires a round in the desert battle from Ceylon island but again, how many different ways are there to show that?
Enough that you'll never have to recycle in a 25 ep season. It's 1-2 scenes the entire season, surely you can go the long way and create a gundam series finally exempt from recycled trash. The point is that this series had potential (GS/GSD did not, you'd be an idiot to believe a rehash of UC can become a revolutionary benchmark) and while it wasn't amazing in story, the HD quality and the fights so far were majority decent and some were damn good. It's like Naruto. Do you think more jaded anime fans would still watch Naruto if they still held on to the more ninja/rural/flutey background music and had fights like Rock Lee vs Gaara instead of Gai vs Kisame? You bet your ass. Did anyone believe Naruto would turn into a pile of crap that it is today animation wise? I doubt it. The story and presentation had potential. Don't ruin it.

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Which, ironically, could lead to all sorts of "interesting" situations, and I'm not just talking about the O gundam.

Imagine, if you will, what would have happened had Graham, sitting in a captured Gundam, been in the seat at just the right time?

"Graham Special!"
QUE THE DRAGON BALL Z SONG.

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One of those is the visual thing. The reused GN-X fotage in ep 22 was actually the first one I've noticed so far, so I really don't see the reason to make all the fuss. It indeed is much better than during the times of ol' CE episodes with dozens of reused mecha animations.
Hand drawn anime vs computer made with years of experience and backing advantages. It wasn't a BIG fuss, it was a concern that if it continues, it'll stand out again, and 00 will have been no better of an upgrade than GS/GSD

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I second this, so far it's all about the suit when it comes to Meisters piloting. I wish for Al/Hal switch to come out for the remaining 3 episodes. Imagine if that happened during Trans-Am mode.
Less than 5 GN-X suits would live from Hal alone. The advantage of Trans-Am vs lack of is as bad if not worse than GN-Drive vs Enact/Flag/Tieren. The fact that Ali, possibly the best pilot of the series so far (argued by Graham and Hal I guess) got schooled like Patrick did in the first episode by the loser Setsuna just pretty much went . . . WOOOOW

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wasn't even saying it's worse than CE. Seriously, the show comes in doing close to the same thing Kira and Friends did in GSD (and that everyone hated them for, mind you), which is trying to stop war with one ship and a few Gundams. So why does 00 get a free pass? Because it's not Jesus Yamato and Moses Zala that are the ones doing it? Celestial Being shows up and says to the world, if you're going to engage in war, we're going to blow you up. How is that any different from Cagalli showing up in front of Orb before a battle and telling them to go back, and then sending Kira out to shut everyone down? I guess the only real difference is that Celestial Being kills people, and Kira didn't. It's quite close to being the exact same thing that happened in CE, but wingdarkness doesn't hate it because the Godh4x Gundams aren't doing it, so it gets his stamp of approval. Whatever. I didn't understand why Bush was elected a second time either.
Do you understand the words atmosphere, tone, etc? Cause CE did not have the whole 9/11/terrorism/savior program deal. CE was OMIGOSH GURLAY FAN SERVISUUUUU with Pink Haros and smiley faces galore with water fall tears. Am I saying CE is bad? No. It was amazing in it's own category. I've watched the damn thing 5 times. But it's amazing in a UNREALISTIC way, that's the point. It basically rehashed CE and put a more "anime" feel to it and added huge dramatic overreactions. Right from the get-go, 00 from the music to the drawing gives off the THIS IS A SPECIAL PROGRAM WE HAVE URGENT NEWS kind of deal. CE is like, K, Myolie Wu says we should stop fighting, and she has weapons of galactic destruction. Let's listen to her sing and drop our guns. And 00 still has some crap

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that I think it's not doing right, unless it plans to not wrap up a season.

So again, Celestial Being and Kira's Gang are doing the same thing but AnimeSuki loves 00 yet hates GSD. I'm gonna have to dig up Sherlock Holmes and revive him with the Dragon Balls to solve this one, my dear Watson.
SORRY, BUT THIS IS ANIMESUKI. KUDO SHINICHI > SHERLOCK HOLMES T_T

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I'm rather worried about this "TRANS AM"... i mean, i know the meisters are in desperate need of an upgrade to fight the GN-X's, but this right now looks like WAY too much; give them enough power to defend themselves is one things, but enough power to turn the GN-X's into grunts is just too much... i mean, Ali is a better pilot and couldn't even dream of matching Exia's power; i mean, back when he was in a grunt unit he atleast showed some signs of winning. He got a gundam he turned the tide in his favor, but with TRANS AM, the power gap between him and Setsuna is now larger than ever.
Sorry, but there's only 3 episodes left, and Ali has to die. Setsuna must be #1 by season 2.

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The 3 Nations have only JUST RECENTLY got a taste of victory and started getting the upperhand, and now it looks like their back at square one... That was incredibly short lived... i mean, the least they could have done was wait until the GN-X's were being mass-produced (which they are still working on) and that they had upgraded a few GN-X's for the aces before giving the meisters the power to treat them like insignificant grunts.
They would've won already. Sadly, 00 is not stupid on how to cover their ass in plot, and pretty much the whole "WE ARE HOT ON YOUR ASS SO PRAY TO JESUS AEOLIA HE GIVES YOU WATER WALKING" is the deal we are given. At least it's better than Gundam Igloo. Igloo failed me miserably as anything but OH LOOK IT'S CHAR.

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CB was a lost cause before Trans Am was activated, they went from sitting ducks to having a punchers chance. I doubt TAM will be overused from here on out, just when they really need it(outnumbered greatly, about to bite the dust, etc.)
Doubt it and that would be DUMB. Trans-AM might use up more power or whatever, but the real Solar Furnaces powered by TD Plunket apparently DON'T RUN OUT OF GAS BUDDY. Anything that's INFINITE can't possibly get screwed if they are willing to put on a over drive on it. And second, it's not even an over drive. It's the FULL UTILIZATION OF THE SUITS. Meaning you know how when you get a new car, like a g35 or something, they lock the engine so you can't completely floor it until you've driven it for a few days or weeks? Yeah it's like that. Basically CB was driving a civic believing they were WRXs only because they were raping old geezer volvos. Limited use would make the entire Aeolia sacrifice/death meaningless.

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When the Thrones were introduced this was said, but what happened? After their fighting styles lost the element of surprise and were analysed those scary gundams became much less scary..
It's different. Trans-Am actually upped the fighting power by miles. Thrones were cool because it was new, and it wasn't like someone like Graham would've completely lost to Johann during that fight. It was more like, we invested so much crap and time into just beating down these gimpy gundams, than 3 more pop up. Aw crap. At that point, you're too shocked and scared and by that assault, you already lost everything. Drei is utility, but has absolutely no combat ability. I doubt she would've even beaten Ali if he was prepared and had a straight up 1v1 no interference in his Enact. Zwei was the only amazing one in fighting because of fangs, which umm, he used terribly. The guy actually had the best gundam out of ALL OF THEM (FIN FUNNELS = INSTANT WIN >.> IF YOU DONT SUCK LOOK AT KIRA) and I bet he was barely better than his sister. Eins was long range artillery, and did JACK in a fight. It's like Dynames/Virtue hybrid that has strengths from both but also weaknesses, meaning it's REALLLLLY GIMP in close combat. If Graham didn't care about his squad mates lives, which basically got one shotted even though they were "aces" he would've owned that guy.

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Well, if anyone expected the focus on pilot skills, then they could've felt disappointed. It seems that the show is more oriented on the race for upgrades. Something that really did not do well to Destiny (I mean, mostly in terms of plot value as the kits sold decently).
Unlike Gundam GS/GSD, where the coolest fights had rehash and the ALMIGHTY KIRA ATHRUN fight was pretty much still pictured, Gundam 00 had fights like Ali vs Setsuna, Graham vs Lockon which pretty much kinda said "Hey, if we want to, we can make awesome fights". The best fight in CE I believe was Providence vs Freedom, and that was pathetically sad because FIN FUNNELS LOST WORSE THAN FLOATY HANDS DID IN UC though the emotion and feel of the fight was right. The point is, there's two points to making a fight good, one is the animation/script, and the other is how to explain how you win, which is the focus of pilot skill/techniques/strategems. Initial D does one of the best for this, specially season 1. Gundam series have ALWAYS had the animation/script down if they wanted to, but for a damn company that PRIDES ITSELF IN SELLING SPECS/ETC models, they FAIL at explaining that stuff during the anime.

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Perhaps what bugs viewers is how the Meisters are relying constantly on superior technology to obtain victory. However, take into account the experience the pilots are gaining while the ace pilots catch up in technology; Setsuna holds out longer each time he faces Ali (excepting the exhaustion of 15, of course), and this time he is even up against the mercenary as the man pilots a Gundam. Also, relations improving between the Meisters will most likely make way for better teamwork and increased capability of individual action (a la episode 19, formation S32). Looking back to the beginning, when they lacked experience, teamwork, and followed orders to the dot, the state the Meisters are in now is an evolution.
This might be true, but uh guess what? The anime doesn't ACKNOWLEDGE IT. They don't even have any hype up, like OH LOOK I DID BETTER THIS TIME, or DAMN THAT KURDISH BRAT GOT A BIT BETTER. There is NO sign of how good the opponent or your team mate is. You know how unrealistic that is? Even in the army, you carry out a field assignment, and even though you may complete/not complete it, you still have to fill out paperwork and people do figure out how to rate you, not to mention the GOSSIP? It's like, you barely see it in 00. You are at war here, all your soldiers are valuable, and if you are a soldier, specially a captain, you value your squads growth. I have never seen Graham train Mason or Daryl despite his personal desire to recruit them under him. That's pathetic, because we figured out Mason was a GIMP. How does that work? Surely you can't tell me the Union was SHORT ON PEOPLE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SERIES WHEN THEY WERE CLEARLY ARMS RACING.

Even Kira Jesus Yamato had times where it's like OHHHHH he's getting better or THIS GUY ALMOST GOT ME. Shinn pretty much had an entire ship full of people being his rating squad. And etc etc etc you know? Sure, Gundam series have that quality of HI IM CHAR AZNABLE CLONE, U DONT GET TO RATE ME CAUSE IM PWN BUT I SUCK AT THE END AND I LOSE, I ALSO NEVER KILL ANYONE THAT YOU BELIEVE WONT DIE (Ali in 00 maybe graham); but when the main characters get that, it gets fugly. Remember in UC when people were smart enough to pull those zaku cords from their gas mask thingy or basically always aim at the thruster packs? It's like, what happened to stuff like that? You get to see Hal pew pew Soma at her thrusters and NOTHING HAPPENS. Is there a NERF GUN mode for Kyrios?


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That's the problem with how many viewers are watching Gundam; their eyes are glued to the scenes for plotholes, and consequently they fail to see the actual themes and symbols, lose their objectivity, and complain about the story and characters when they haven't 'read' either properly. Yes, presentation is importantóbut how can a person pick so terribly at the slightest detail in one series and act ignorant in another?
I bitch not because I hate. In fact, if you haven't gotten it from every post I've made so far here, I love gundam 00. I rate it as the #1 anime this year and probably last year, and it's right now the only damn thing I watch. Everything else is manga'd, though One Piece I'm saving up because I have faith it might not suck after fillers (CP9 was very good).

But this is Animesuki forums, even before I was a spammer, people who were even more ridiculous than me nit picked at everything. Did that mean they hated it? No. They just went overboard. You taking things as if this was the only thing I see during the episode is only your own ignorance. I can appreciate Snow white and the seven dwarves from walt disney, there's no way I can't appreciate Gundam, no matter how cliche/fail it may be.

On the other hand, acknowledging the fails is a totally different matter. Showing your point of view of what can be better, and making silly bashes is what makes this forum entertaining. If anyone takes offense to what complainers say, either you have to prove it wrong (AKA you take part in the argument in a "RP" mode) or you just let it go. You can't go CALM DOWN ITS JUST A SHOW. It's like telling people in a game that you don't know that they are overreacting because it's a game. Sure, some people or in some cases MOST PEOPLE are flat faced and can only express themselves in one manner, but there are those of us that can go Griffith on you and get all sharp and cold while laughing at something as random as Suzumiya Haruhi the next.

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On another note,Kyrios has been sorely missed as of recently
Am I the only person who thinks Kyrios is crappily designed? The thing is like that stupid thing Mwu rode until he had a gundam combined with a damn gundam, has a rifle that makes no sense (CAN ONE SHOT THINGS AS WELL AS DYNAMES YET SOMETIMES FAIL MISERABLE AND CAN ALSO HAVE 100% ACCURACY IN BURST MODE...), a claw thingy that...is a claw thingy (these kinda things are like....side kick material harsh) that shows no depth other than OOO LOOKY HERE and about the only time he was baller is whenever a large amount of tards went above him and he ballistic'd their asses with spams of missiles. Also his transformation sucks compared to a flags imo, because it's not SMOOTH like ...I dunno...and it's not rugged like Flags where you can hear it's gears cringing. Kyrios transformation always reminds me of Transformers roll out time.

(I'll be fair and blame the rifle deal on Hal being a jackass, but the claw thing needs attention or else it's just a sidekick item. I'm not saying the design sucks, it's the spot light time and how they present it that makes the item. So far, it blows as nothing but LOL GRUNT TORTURE)

However, the DESIGN (LOOKS) is quite appealing. The thing is probably the 2nd coolest out of CB imo, and it along with Exia fits the elegant approach 00 takes unlike the extravagant look CE took. Dynames after the deathscythe wing shields and Virtue period is not that elegant what so ever, as Dynames looks too rugged and squarish. I mean, the guy has the most baller hat, and his body looks like it's made of lego or was the successor of the honda element. There's not even a need to comment about fat gundam. Jared Subway/Slim Jimed AND gender change? Wow, they might as well give some pegasus shoulders and call the damn thing Saint Seiya.

However, one thing I love about CB pilots > other pilots of 00 is that, when they have their helmets on, their modified voice sounds so much more baller than when without. Like Tiera. That guy is the pinnacle of sounding like a guy you wanna punch when he's out in the open (HIS CLOTHES DONT HELP) but sounds incredibly bad ass when he's piloting. It's these little details that previous gundam series didn't really focus on that I love.

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also poor, poor, thrones I always thought they were cool anti-heroes.
Neena was acceptable as she was the flirty girl cliche that's more fanservice than anything that kinda makes other characters like Setsuna more real. Johann was good too, but they never really showed his true devotion to the CB (You never knew he was super intent on being a Meister and was actually just misguided guy until he dies lol) and other stuff until it's too late. Mihael was...crap. I'm sorry I have to give CE the win on this one. Specially the Druggies. Their attitudes were baller, their stupidity was humourous, and due to their similarity, they acted as a "unit" better than the Trinities. Trinities were pretty much siblings, that other than DOCK WITH ME NEENA had no coordinated tactics. The group fights of Thrones vs the group fights of Druggies is overwhelmingly in the Druggies favour (ONLY GROUP OF PEOPLE TO LAST MORE THAN A FEW EPS AGAINST KIRA/CO CONSISTENTLY FIGHTING AND PUSH THEM T_T)

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I hope Setsuna will settle the score in the final season finale of gundam 00 before he confronts ALI AL-SACHEZ, FACE 2 FACE. I think i'm gonna drink some glass of water after my body feels giggle i mean i don't feel so good after i watched episode 22.
This guy is either:

A) A more immersed fan than all of us (more power to you)
B) Great troll (more power to you)

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I think most Gundam X similarities are just coincidental, but there's another one too: The official English name of Gundam X's "Earth Federation" was UNE (United Nations Earth) and the GN-X in 00 are officially troops of the UN (United Nations).
If you're telling me then the Agrissa was suppose to be Virsago, I'm gonna be sad. Virsago was by far the coolest gundam out of that entire series (YOU SEE THE GIMMICKS IT HAS? THE EPISODES LET IT SHINE UNLIKE KYRIOS T_T), and if they are gonna copy, Ali needs a 00 version.

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That's what they thought since they dont know that the Trinities and Ptolemaios are actually against each other (they are just aware that the two teams act differently). We probably wont ever know what Setsuna thought when he saw Zwei pointing his sword at Drei, probably he was thinking "Gundams are not toys!"
Sigh, the kid says it almost every episode in a dumb struck way, and you believe he will say something that is a coherent sentence?

Let me show you what Setsuna thinks/feels/believes/etc during that situation...no...his entire life:

"gundam...Gundam....GUNDAM"

Get it? Got it? Good.

This will NOT BE DISPUTED. I have enough evidence that even Pheonix Wright cannot object to.

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At the begining of the ep he seemed concerned with the fact that they now had only three Gundam's working while the forces against them were getting stronger. Maybe out of desperation he was going to try one last time to get the Trinity on their side so CB would have the best chance at survival. However it didn't quite go as planned since by the time he got there it was already too late and things got worse.
Another person believing Setsuna thinks. You guys also believe Kira doesn't have aim bot or something? Refer to above. Gawd.

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Pls dont flame but im still rooting for some setsuna and neena love relationship.

Given now neena is alive and all perhaps this may be a 180 degree turn for neena's character. Perhaps she may feel remorse for her crimes commited as well as pain for witnessing her death of her brothers.

I honestly dont want her dead. I know she is a bitch and all and posters wants her dead, but given the director chose to keep her alive i hope he decides to do something useful and meaningfull than just another fodder pilot.
She is a contrast to every other female, and unlike Flay who is a useless bitch, Neena will at least live to go out in flames one way or another.

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Amazingly I expected Ali Al to die a horrible and VERY fast death. I mean after all he's done to Setsuna, and after Setsuna got such a HUGE advantage...
Oh look, Rau dies again.

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Maybe just on the one side. Of all the Thrones to leave alive they pick Nena? I mean at least you could get along with Johann. Instead we've got the girl who blasts civilians for kicks. Guess she can always go down later. Be a strange feeling to see them do something like try and reform her and make the slaughter that occurred earlier ok.
1. Setsuna has slaughtered many. Face to face.
2. A GIRL staying alive out of an entire group? HOWDATPOSSIBAL?

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I don't Watch SEED & SEED Destiny before but this is my first time after i experience watched Gundam 00 Since Episode 1 because now i got my Exia Figure in my bedroom plus a lots of Gundam 00 Gashapon figures!!
XD I've yet to see replies to this guy. He's a great troll.

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I would say the GN Flag isn't a totally dumb idea. The one thing that the design has over the GN-X's is that it's transformable. As long as Billy figured out tweak the GN Drive output it might have faster acceleration than then GN-X and possibly a higher max speed.
When Graham dies in a blaze of glory because of his inferior suit, you'll take those words back. On the other hand, a suit that looks like Gryphon from Pat Labor and having a baller pilot with sufficient screen time surely deserves it's glory minutes.

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Why would you consider her to be a five-year-old. She certainly knew that what she did was wrong, but she slaughtered all those people anyways.
Cause she's not human. I also do not expect Soma Peris to understand what the SATs are and what Prom Queen means. Nor do I expect Tiera to understand the word homosexual and how he really looks like one sometimes. You forget, these are tube babies like Kira.

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Actually, they had enough of an early warning for Nena to get inside Throne Drei. Why the brothers stayed outside while a potential enemy was approaching in a mobile suit is odd reaction.
No info on who was in the red suit, nor really any info on the red enact. Neena being the lazy clueless person probably didn't fill in the report that the guy got away when they debutted. Also, knowing Mihael, he believes he coulda taken anyone 1v1 with his Gillette knife. Johann was desperate for any help possible, so being ballsy to show you are willing to talk is a need sometimes, depending on what disposition the enact pilot was in.

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and this may be a stretch of my imagination, but watching that ep again. I think the reason Eifman is assassinated is not because he's getting closer to Aeolia's true goal. more because his research may later reveal that gn drive the thrones and later gn-x use is just a fake, have some drawback like that radiation. if that flaw is exposed. I think the 3 power blocks will be more weary in accepting their tech
Louise hand example in the age of stem cell regen is pretty much clear what the Tau drive is.

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So I think the lesson is Ali had the advantage the whole time, because he's a world-class mercenary...No way Johan thought the dude could kill Micheal within a half-second as Micheal raises his gun to kill Ali then do some super-human dodge-skipping to shoot Johan aswell...He tells Neena to run because he's just being an oni-chaaaan (Not to mention he in no way feels like Ali can start any of the Gundams which proved to be his own demise)...
A Rau Lecruze that got screen time! How amazing. All they had to do was make him more red, the color of char. Just goes to show white sucks when you're not the main character.

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Ali has all the qualities to be the perfect villain, some one you love to hate. He just needs a better motivation why he fights CB. "You are a mercenary and love to fight" just doesn't cut it atm.
Kinda, but if you're willing to divulge into your love of fighting (WHICH GUNDAM FAILS TO DO SINCE IT CANT EVEN DO TECHNICAL EXPLANATIONS DURING FIGHTS) it easily becomes justifiable. It's like saying why do some people rape, why do some people perform serial murder, and it's completely the same as why some people like shooting animals etc etc. Some people might be GOOD at this stuff, as sad as it seems, simply cause it gets them high and feeling good. Competitive games/sports are the same.

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I call it cheating. Mason would be turning in his grave if he knew how Graham planned on keeping his vows.
Lol. You're as immersed as that troll guy.

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- I think that it's great that they want to show the GN-Xs defeat the Trinitys through superior tactics and numbers, but the way the creators went about it is just about the silliest way imaginable. And, of course, they let them get away again.
DING DING DING

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Just realised with the whole exia turning redish color. Wouldnt that signify more towards evil? opposed something holy? I understand the whole red color makes suits go faster but i wonder if the directors may have red color exia have a religious notion behind it?
KAOKEN/Char mode buddy. Or Red Ranger. YOUR PICK.

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Shounen series have been built upon constant deus ex.
Does the Eyeshield plays count? Cause they put a lot of thought into it unlike stuff like Prince of Tennis. Not realistic, but very neat in a game-like way. POT is like, a joke unless you look at Fuji's stuff. How the hell is Samurai Drive that powerful?

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Now back to G00, as much as I'd love to see Graham vs. Ali
Do you actually think Bandai or whatever would be able to keep people believing CB is the main cast if this happens? Then again, this would be the stuff of mobile suit legends if done correctly. I just hope if it does happen, it doesn't go Karen vs Suzaku style where it's lackluster.
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Old 2008-03-14, 15:17   Link #642
Blaat
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Woah, great episode, felt like a classic Gundam episode, especially the MS fights. Can't wait to see the next one.
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Old 2008-03-14, 15:30   Link #643
AlphaDragoon
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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*facepalm*

Would people using this thread to bash CE (guess it's the cool kids thing to do or something) kindly shut the hell up and get back on topic?
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Old 2008-03-14, 15:37   Link #644
Sir Dearka
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Last couple of posts just made me believe in Gundam fans again

I agree with the opinions about quite slow progress/development when it comes to characters. It's, like, the biggest weakness of 00 so far. I won't only mention Kira or Kamille here, but also Kou Uraki as an example of interestingly built personal plot-story, as well as convincing and consequent skill/abilities improvement.

Nevertheless, the series is not finished yet and there are characters which I really got to like. Like Neil Dylandy or, quite recently, Setsuna (whom I hated at the beginning, but... it is not the first time I've changed my attitude for a Gundam character ).

Episode 22, along with episode 15 (desert battle) and 18 (atttack at the wedding) is my favorite one. I have a feeling that those 3 that remain shall be like a ride on the rollercoaster to me, setting the appetite for the next 00 series.
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Old 2008-03-14, 15:51   Link #645
NeonZ
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Doubt it and that would be DUMB. Trans-AM might use up more power or whatever, but the real Solar Furnaces powered by TD Plunket apparently DON'T RUN OUT OF GAS BUDDY. Anything that's INFINITE can't possibly get screwed if they are willing to put on a over drive on it.
It doesn't really work like that. The GN Drive might produce infinite energy in the sense that it's continuously producing power without external interference, but that doesn't mean it produces infinite energy per second, nor can the Gundam store infinite energy. If more energy is used than what is produced or stored, the Gundam could run low on power.

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And second, it's not even an over drive. It's the FULL UTILIZATION OF THE SUITS. Meaning you know how when you get a new car, like a g35 or something, they lock the engine so you can't completely floor it until you've driven it for a few days or weeks? Yeah it's like that. Basically CB was driving a civic believing they were WRXs only because they were raping old geezer volvos. Limited use would make the entire Aeolia sacrifice/death meaningless.
That has not even been stated in the series yet. I'd wait for an official statement before saying that.
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Old 2008-03-14, 15:51   Link #646
SoldierOfDarkness
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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How many ways are there to show a Flag transforming in mid air? Oh wait, they've never recycled it. Get creative buddy.
How many times did a Flag transform in the exact same situation? Oh wait it never did.

Unless you suggest that they change the angle from where the GN-X's are doing the circular rotation.
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Old 2008-03-14, 17:16   Link #647
Sir Dearka
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wingdarkness, no offence, but to me you seem to be yet another example of a perfect fanboy image. Being ready to sit in the "cheap-seats in an empty arena" out of love for one of your favorite ser.. err.. teams

Just chill man.
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Old 2008-03-14, 17:22   Link #648
wingdarkness
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^It's called an analogy...Furthermore, I'm a fanboy of GUNDAM, but never to the point where I ever compromise the content of my arguments to be one...No one in this forum can accuse me of that in ALL my years here...Ask around if you must...
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Old 2008-03-14, 17:26   Link #649
Sir Dearka
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
^It's called an analogy...Furthermore, I'm a fanboy of GUNDAM, but never to the point where I ever compromise the content of my arguments to be one...No one in this forum can accuse me of that in ALL my years here...Ask around if you must...
^Yeah, I know it's an "analogy". It's, like, a metaphore, right? If yes, then I guess I understood you well.

I also consider myself to be a Gundam fan. But still, there are series I consider to be better or worse, and I bet (more than that, I can see) that you also have your favorites and un-favorites. Maybe the only difference between us is that I like both CE and 00
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Old 2008-03-14, 17:31   Link #650
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Originally Posted by Sir Dearka View Post
^Yeah, I know it's an "analogy". It's, like, a metaphore, right? If yes, then I guess I understood you well.

I also consider myself to be a Gundam fan. But still, there are series I consider to be better or worse, and I bet (more than that, I can see) that you also have your favorites and un-favorites. Maybe the only difference between us is that I like both CE and 00
Please don't take the harsh way I talk sometimes as an indicator of how I am on the other side of this computer monitor...I respect anyones right to fight, and//or have passion for what they love, but when they compromise integrity with fanboy juices, that's when I fly beneath the surface...That's what wingdarkness means...
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Old 2008-03-14, 17:40   Link #651
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It doesn't really work like that. The GN Drive might produce infinite energy in the sense that it's continuously producing power without external interference, but that doesn't mean it produces infinite energy per second, nor can the Gundam store infinite energy. If more energy is used than what is produced or stored, the Gundam could run low on power.



That has not even been stated in the series yet. I'd wait for an official statement before saying that.
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wingdarkness, no offence, but to me you seem to be yet another example of a perfect fanboy image. Being ready to sit in the "cheap-seats in an empty arena" out of love for one of your favorite ser.. err.. teams

Just chill man.
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^Yeah, I know it's an "analogy". It's, like, a metaphore, right? If yes, then I guess I understood you well.

I also consider myself to be a Gundam fan. But still, there are series I consider to be better or worse, and I bet (more than that, I can see) that you also have your favorites and un-favorites. Maybe the only difference between us is that I like both CE and 00
Err sorry, I have to agree with WingDarkness.

I have to say the only reason why Seed and Destiny scored so well was because of all the affiliating it had, with T.M. Revolution, as well as the large chunks of fanservice chucked into the intros-its a desperate way to get ratings by making us guys infatuated so we have a better impression of it.

Gundam Seed Destiny had a very rushed and disorganized story, clearly with the last half of it showing much desperate script writing; example destiny plan. I was like "WTF?" There was simply no motive behind such an extreme move which made it VERY weak.

See 00, with CB, you can clearly see how a large organization with much power can get corrupted or split- with MAJOR problems. Basically the gundams are now in a fight for survival as CB has achieved its goal. Doesnt that sound better than "random operations on a base, random operations on a base, ill kill you if you dont jon"?

Its not fanboyism, its the fact that Destiny had such poor directing/plot/script, compared to 00.
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Old 2008-03-14, 17:56   Link #652
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@wingdarkness - Ah, I see. Same way I feel when I see some hater that starts bashing Gundam or any anime series I like in general.

---

@Tkpenalty - you chose your "side", but I'd rather not belong to any. I have my own preferences, but I like both 00 and Destiny enough not to even consider which is better or worse in my personal ranking. To me, Destiny was just an opportunity to meet my favorite SEED characters again. Whilst 00 is completely new and interesting series which just blew me away with its visuals. Moreover, 00 is still airing, so I leave eventual evaluation till I finish watching the whole second season.
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Old 2008-03-14, 18:02   Link #653
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Well at least arguing over the plot is better than arguing over what made-up robot would beat up what other made-up robot in a fight
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Old 2008-03-14, 18:13   Link #654
Sir Dearka
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Well at least arguing over the plot is better than arguing over what made-up robot would beat up what other made-up robot in a fight
Definitely. And so far, the plot in 00 is uneven, but still forms a coherent whole to me. I hope it doesn't fall apart. But I trust in the skills of its director. The only thing I am certain of by episode 22 is that the show had enough "moments" to be considered to be fairly good in my eyes. It still has a long way to reach the SEED or Zeta league, but it can just dance through it with style if Mr. FMA does his work well. <fingers crossed>
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Old 2008-03-14, 20:08   Link #655
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^It's called an analogy...Furthermore, I'm a fanboy of GUNDAM, but never to the point where I ever compromise the content of my arguments to be one...No one in this forum can accuse me of that in ALL my years here...Ask around if you must...
I can second to that
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Old 2008-03-14, 20:22   Link #656
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Well SEED had a proven framework to build off of (MS Gundam), whereas Gundam00 is something totally new, so... (Sir Dearka)
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Old 2008-03-14, 21:05   Link #657
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Seed Destiny failed in its EXECUTION... In that the grunts were indeed nameless grunts who wasted frames with recycled explosions while screaming "My life has no meaning!" and 00 at least named the grunts and gave them a small personality before killing them off in a shinier death- thus winning the respect of Gundam Fans everywhere...

Destiny COULD HAVE BEEN good, but it wasn't due to its awesomely bad sub-plots overshadowing the main story- which was war remember? Not the pink Zaku or Meer's breasts... -__- All about execution.

There is no being "realistic" in an anime, but the way Destiny made them untouchable got ridiculous. Sure 00 characters get a magical boost when it got tough, but at least they have their limits... We saw this when they were nearly defeated before the Trinity team came along. Lockon even mentioned the need to have food or a bathroom break in a 12-24 hour battle. XD Now that's down to earth...
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Old 2008-03-14, 21:20   Link #658
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Definitely. And so far, the plot in 00 is uneven, but still forms a coherent whole to me. I hope it doesn't fall apart. But I trust in the skills of its director. The only thing I am certain of by episode 22 is that the show had enough "moments" to be considered to be fairly good in my eyes. It still has a long way to reach the SEED or Zeta league, but it can just dance through it with style if Mr. FMA does his work well. <fingers crossed>
Comparing 00 to SEED is like comparing The Hobbit to Harry Potter. They're both children's books, but, well, that's about it. They have different stories, different levels of motif and theme, and one is downright a children's book while the other is not limited... hint: The one (childish) I'm talking about uses Deus Ex Machina much like SEED and starts with an H and ends with arry Potter.

But in all seriousness. The plot of 00 is not really to be compared to SEED, they are different stories with very different ways of telling them. The level of sophistication is also a discerning feature. As much as you may want to suger SEED up it doesn't hold a candle to 00 in terms of politics and actual military planning. While 00 has nothing on SEED for WTFEPIC battles of beamspam.
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Old 2008-03-14, 23:28   Link #659
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You say it's about execution, WD, which is where I'll bite...however:

Yes, Kira was basically untouchable. And what the hell were the Meisters when they had the element of surprise? They completely cleaned house and you know it. In fact, it wasn't until they got completely WTFOHNOES outnumbered that they really more or less came to the gates of heaven...but what about that space battle? Once again, Tieria surprised with Nadleeh, and then Hallelujah surprised by waking up Kyrios. In fact, so far, the gundams, dare I say it, are EVERY FUCKING BIT AS UBER as anything before the Freedom or the Wing Zero was. In fact, IT'S THE MEISTERS THAT SUCK. If it was Heero and Kira and Amuro and hell, let's even say SHINN for shits and giggles in those Gundams, they'd be dodging those 800 and weaving to a quick retreat and leaving those 800 looking like idiots.

The fact is that this "presentation" is simply a result of the current Gundam pilots possibly being the absolute worst in franchise history, when you can have Ali Al Sarges hop into the Zwei and then GGPWN Johann, who was acquainted with Eins for who knows how long, when Ali only saw Zwei for several minutes!

Your presentation isn't the grunts being necessarily good, WD. It's the gundam meisters that suck horribly, and we've been having that shoved down our throats since moment 1--that all the time, they were winning because of two SIGNIFICANT factors:

1) Surprise
2) Technology

Now that the powers have GN-Xs and are hunting down both Thrones and the original Meisters, they're lucky to survive from episode to episode not because their opponents are necessarily THAT GREAT--but because THEY ARE BAD. If you recall, Heero Yuy in Wing was an ace to end all aces except Zechs, since Zechs had more or less a VERY similar background.

Similarly, in SEED, Athrun was the TOP ace of ALL of ZAFT. He was number one in just about EVERYTHING (I think except gunning when he had the flu and came in 2nd to Yzak), while Kira was so smart that he knew MSes inside and out. Kira may not have originally been the greatest PILOT when the show set out, but A) he taught himself by sitting in the Strike's cockpit 24/7 when he realized only he could pilot it, and B) he was so fucking smart that he could figure out Strike, AND Freedom (and I assume SF is more of the same) in seconds.

So let's see:

In GSD, Kira had:

1) Surprise
2) Tech
3) SKILL
4) A specially custom-designed Gundam
5) Lacus Dust

To say that OMG MEISTERS VULNERABLE KIRA WAS GOD GSD SO STUPID is being a hypocrite in judgment! Yes, I'll give you this: the reused animation made me SICK. It was a travesty, plain and simple. But aside from the horrid animation, if you're going to judge Goddess and God on the same line you're going to judge the meisters, then I expect nothing LESS than complete dismemberment of any and all enemies. Kira has far more skill, far more brains, and far superior technology than the meisters do, with the same amount of surprise until he was called out in SF (at which point he had an ARMY behind him).

And you can't really call out Kira for not getting touched...Strike got thrashed around quite a bit when he piloted it, Freedom got nearly decimated by the Providence and then of course, we all remember the travesty that was GSD 34. And speaking of which, why do people say "OMFG EVERYONE ELSE SUCKS THAT'S WHY KIRA WINS" when Athrun specifically asked him "Why did you get shot down?" and Kira answered "Oh, I wasn't trying". People cheered that and when Kira DID try "OMFG THE CREATOR IS A KIRA FANBOY HE MADE KIRA GOD WAAH WAAH".

Just as G00 is trying to hammer into us that the Meisters are completely outclassed in piloting by the nations' best (Soma, Sergei, Graham, Ali), then I don't think GSD could have done any more to hammer it into us that Kira A) resigned himself that he's Lacus's sword and B) since accepting that, decided to become the best damn pilot in the world.

In the end though, it doesn't matter. No amount of "THIS PILOT IS GOD INCARNATE" pounding would ever convince people that the protagonist is untouchable, simply because no matter how good the protagonist is, people want him to take hits anyway, no matter how ridiculous it seems, which is why GSD 34 was such a cop-out to me...and hell, it was a cop-out to the director himself which was why Kira said "I'm not trying" and then when everyone said "BS, you were trying", he went and OWNED Shinn at Orb, and then Gruntified Rey in space.

And furthermore, if you're Patrick Zala, and you want to END THE WAR NOW, you have the enemies' most advanced technology, are you going to just one-up them with Strike Mk.II? No. You're going to build the most powerful Gundams you possibly can. Hence Freedom and Justice and Providence. And then, if you're LACUS CLYNE, and you KNOW these pilots PERSONALLY, KNOW how they function and care for them, are you going to make suits that are just slightly better than the rest for fun and fingernail-biting edge-of-your-seat battles, or are you going to make the best most powerful godlike gundams you can?

Time and again, there has been justification for a pilot being damn good. Time and again, there has been justification for an MS so powerful existing (and inevitably finding its way into the hands of that ace of aces) that it can decimate entire fleets alone. Hello...the Wing Gundam Zero was SO powerful that it was deemed to be TOO POWERFUL TO BE BUILT.

The bottom line is that there was always justification for protagonists being next to godlike, which is why on a good day, only their rival themselves can lay a hand on them (okay, fine, there's also giant inanimate rocks just to deal with your pesky jedi newtypes without cannons of doom). There have always been justifications for doomsday weapons built into sparkly gundams (okay, though I don't know why all of the doomsday gundams have to be built in these gleaming blues and whites).

Of course, NONE of that matters to people that say OMG G00 IS GREAT. All that matters is that the protagonist is VULNERABLE, which makes absolutely no sense in terms of the universe. Shit, for a real life example, just look at the F-22. That thing has every single bell and whistle built into it that'll simply be mind-boggling if one ever gets shot down when F-15s and F-16s suffered more DOMESTIC TRAINING CRASHES than they've EVER been shot down (in fact, neither F-15 nor F-16 have ever lost an air-to-air engagement if I'm correct).

Frankly, I buy into "only a gundam can beat a gundam", since gundams are AT HEART designed to be like F-22s--with every single feature known built into them to make them the ultimate fighting machines. If a gundam can get gruntsmacked, then it fails as a gundam. Why put in all of those resources to build this sparkly "soopa-robot", when for a fraction of the resources, you can have three "real robos" that pwn this shiny soopa robot?

And as for vulnerable meisters, yeah, they are...but not because the grunts are any better. I can basically assure you that for all of their fancy formations, the Wing Zero's WTFENORMOUS BEAM BLAST OF DOOM would wipe them out every bit as nicely, as would Kira's "spam every single direction you can possibly move while spamming your general direction" freedom fireworks. The meisters suck. The meisters suck. I do not know how long I have to reiterate this.

If you call trashy piloting "good presentation", then I say it's far more a cop-out than good piloting.
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Old 2008-03-15, 00:32   Link #660
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this thread is getting depressing
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