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Old 2008-03-15, 21:26   Link #41
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Setsilya~ View Post
Not really, when you created something; you know exactly where it's bad point and where it's good point. As human, we usually focus on whats bad and not whats good, so it is really hard to get a good impression on your own work. But there are those people. ~Well that is one reason why a lot of artist aren't satisfied with their work even if it is very amazing. It is not a bad attitude since it will become a motivation to move you forward, since you know you can improve.
What you said reminds me of something interesting. I've received some training in Chinese calligraphy, and here's something we learned - there are three basic stages that a person undergoes during their training. If I recall correctly, when you begin you will feel that all of your work is near-masterpiece level. This takes some time to fade away, and then you reach the second level: your flaws stand out at you. You may feel that your work is all flawed, but this is necessary for improvement. In the final stages you work hard and recognize your shortcomings and your improvements.

I can say for certain that I followed those stages exactly as they were described (although I never really made it to stage 3, as I didn't do calligraphy for more than half a year). Does it apply to all forms of art, and all types of people? I know it applies to me and almost any type of art I do, but I can't say for sure that it applies to everyone.

What you say may apply to most people - I can't say for sure. I personally don't think everyone or even the majority of people start out at the final stage that calligraphy makes mention of, but I can't say for certain It's just a thought, either way. I guess I'm with solace in saying that if you enter a contest you're already nominating yourself by putting yourself into the running. If you really feel that you're the absolute best and nobody else is even worth a single vote, abstain from voting - your superiority should be clear enough to your peers, right? (For what it's worth I don't really mind it if people vote for themselves. At this point I'm more or less musing over the philosophy behind the act.)
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Old 2008-03-15, 21:39   Link #42
Deathkillz
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I feel that behind the whole idea about voting for yourself is because you want to win, and naturally I do believe that most of us do want to win despite what we say about "lets just have fun". Well it is true about it we want to have fun but another part is that we do want to win as it gives a sense of joy. Well not winning is not the end of the world but just a chance to look at others and imporve yourself for next time. As much as your guy want to fluff it by saying that it is just for fun, deep down a part of that fun is looking forward to winning; THIS IS WAR MEN!! (or something like that ).
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Old 2008-03-15, 23:08   Link #43
KiNA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
Interesting concept. Since the maximum amount of votes is 3, I would say if you vote for yourself, you should vote for two others. Basically, if you vote for yourself, then you must have 3 votes total. I think it makes it fair.
Then it cancel out.. and its even not fair for those that dont vote for themselves no?

If you really wanted vote for yourself, then use your own quota.
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Old 2008-03-16, 03:08   Link #44
Thingle
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I'll do that.
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Old 2008-03-16, 03:11   Link #45
kayos
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Personally I don't see anything wrong with voting for yourself, it shows you appreciate your own work. But it is a bit redundant to vote for yourself, even after all the hard work you've put into creating it. We all know everyone love their own work, so wouldn't it be better to show appreciation toward other works beside your own... unless you're here for the purpose of winning or just self-centered. Then by all means do what you have to do.

After all we're all (or most, maybe some, or just me) here to enjoy and appreciate the ideas and creativity of other members. Yes it would be nice to win but that's just a small piece of the pie (the last piece), the main portion is the enjoyment of displaying your beauty.

Who knows, maybe I'm wrong... I tend to have brain fart sometimes.

Spoiler for Off Topic for useless fact:
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Old 2008-03-16, 03:15   Link #46
Thingle
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I'm doing things like this primarily to see how far I've developed style. It's basically gaging myself against people who would do similar themes.
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Old 2008-03-16, 03:43   Link #47
kayos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thingle View Post
I'm doing things like this primarily to see how far I've developed style. It's basically gaging myself against people who would do similar themes.

Fair enough, it's a contest after all.

Good luck again to all contestants.

Solace, after the final vote is counted, is it possible to reorganize the siggys in ranking position with votes number beside it. It'll make it easier to see where each sig ranked and who's better or worse with just a scroll. Exactly like a video game ranking.

Instead of trying to match names and sigs.
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Old 2008-03-16, 04:47   Link #48
Solace
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Let me be a little more blunt. If someone votes for their own entry, but does not vote for at least one other entry, I will disqualify the vote. Sorry but don't make me regret allowing self voting in the first place. If I have to change the rule so that no one can vote for their own entry, I will.

I don't approve of it. I think it's a pointless thing to do. And the rule is designed so that the voter recognizes at least one other person with an entry. Let me be clear, this contest is for fun. Winning is great, don't get me wrong, but the last thing I want to see is ego stroking. Finding at least one other person who deserves a vote IS NOT THAT DIFFICULT. There's 54 entries. If you can tell me honestly that 53 of the entries are completely terrible then I can tell you that you shouldn't bother entering the next contest because you are in fact, a god among graphic designers.

@ kayos. Yes, I could. It's possible. Let me know when I need to devote a few hours of personal time for that.
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Old 2008-03-16, 05:00   Link #49
kayos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
@ kayos. Yes, I could. It's possible. Let me know when I need to devote a few hours of personal time for that.
Well yeah it's time consuming.

I could take up your position of counting the ballots and organizing it by ranks, all you would have to do is reorganize the signatures. That alone shouldn't take more than an hour... right?

The list of ranking shouldn't be too hard for me.
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Old 2008-03-16, 05:04   Link #50
Sephi
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@Dkz.
Of course everyone want to win. And as mentioned in my previous post in this thread i don't think any of us are a exception to that. But just don't forget the main point of this. And that being: fun and learning things and improving.

@kayos
You will see something similar like this
It's from previous SOTM. You could easily look for who got what amount of vote with that. I might sound like a prick for saying this. But making a ranking would just take a lot of extra time from Solace. And i hate to see effort only being one sided. With that sheet it shouldn't be to much trouble to figure out how much vote everyone got with some ctrl+C and ctrl+F and paste. It's won't be aligned nice and tidy. But you should get a good picture of votes and signatures.

Not sure if Solace was being sarcastic about his comment. But if he really doesn't mind to do it. Than nvm me


Edit: To slow with posting But seeing Kayos commented already what i said wasn't really necessarily.
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Old 2008-03-16, 05:28   Link #51
Solace
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I guess the response was a little sarcastic. Let me be a bit more diplomatic.

Since it was the first voting session, the formating wasn't great. But keep in mind I was using notepad to track votes. It's not exactly easy to copy paste results and organize them into rankings using something like that. Sephi assisted in vote counting and he had a spreadsheet, which was much more organized and was posted when the voting was done. At that point everyone was excited to get the next contest going and everyone moved on pretty quick.

On the time side of things, yes it only takes an hour-ish to do what you ask. Keep in mind that's an hour-ish later that announcing results will take, an hour-ish later someone needs to spend organizing and copy/pasting, and an hour-ish later that most people won't care about.

It's nice for convenience sake, but for the few who care I think scrolling will work just fine for now.

This is what the entry list looks like when I edit it. Keep in mind this is with almost no formatting outside of bolds, img tag, and the list tag.

Spoiler for size:
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Old 2008-03-16, 05:50   Link #52
Jinto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
...
I guess I'm with solace in saying that if you enter a contest you're already nominating yourself by putting yourself into the running. If you really feel that you're the absolute best and nobody else is even worth a single vote, abstain from voting - your superiority should be clear enough to your peers, right? (For what it's worth I don't really mind it if people vote for themselves. At this point I'm more or less musing over the philosophy behind the act.)
Its difficult, since if one really feels one's own work is best, then it would be like lying to yourself if you do not vote for your work. On the other side, if one competes in the contest, to see how others judge one's art, there is no need to vote for oneself, since that one thinks the own work is best is known beforehand anyway.
If one does compete to win, sportsmanship should prevent one from voting for oneself, since there is no performance needed to vote for oneself, means if one does win because of one's own vote it usually does not feel like winning because of a good performance.
Finally if one tries to desperately win this contest, I seriously question this person's self-esteem. (Like... put the effort into real life problems instead of this contest, that will secure a more enduring fortune for the life)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
I feel that behind the whole idea about voting for yourself is because you want to win, and naturally I do believe that most of us do want to win despite what we say about "lets just have fun". Well it is true about it we want to have fun but another part is that we do want to win as it gives a sense of joy. Well not winning is not the end of the world but just a chance to look at others and imporve yourself for next time. As much as your guy want to fluff it by saying that it is just for fun, deep down a part of that fun is looking forward to winning; THIS IS WAR MEN!! (or something like that ).
I want to disagree, I actually do not want to win. Because if I win, I have to choose the next contest theme
For me it really is just fun. And if there is only one person who likes what I created, it even has a purpose (which is all the better).

Quote:
Originally Posted by kayos View Post
...

Spoiler for Off Topic for useless fact:
Jinto used his own webspace. But one time (when KiNa asked for another host, because he could not see it) I used Imageshack instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thingle View Post
I'm doing things like this primarily to see how far I've developed style. It's basically gaging myself against people who would do similar themes.
But this does not explain, why you'ld vote for yourself. I mean for you it is an already known precondition that you like your work/style. I cannot see the added value a vote for yourself would provide in that regard.
On the other side I think, if there is someone voting for oneself, this person should not need to justify this here. So don't understand me wrong, I actually don't want/need to know your intentions on this matter. It would not affect my voting or my POV for this contest anyway (I am biased only to a signature's content never to the creator).
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Old 2008-03-16, 06:15   Link #53
Deathkillz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinto View Post
Finally if one tries to desperately win this contest, I seriously question this person's self-esteem. (Like... put the effort into real life problems instead of this contest, that will secure a more enduring fortune for the life)
I would do too

Like I said, it isn't/shouldn't be the end of the world if you lose, this is but a great opportunity to share ideas and improve yourself so you can win next time ^^

or the next...or the next...and maybe the next...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinto View Post
I want to disagree, I actually do not want to win. Because if I win, I have to choose the next contest theme
For me it really is just fun. And if there is only one person who likes what I created, it even has a purpose (which is all the better).
There has to be one

But that wasn't a rule, just a general opinion on perhaps 70% of the contestants.

And I have my theme thought out already

WAIFUS! (yes, if anyone wants waifu theme you know what to do ).

/runs before I get axed for advertising
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Old 2008-03-16, 06:35   Link #54
Riker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephi View Post
@Dkz.
Of course everyone want to win. And as mentioned in my previous post in this thread i don't think any of us are a exception to that. But just don't forget the main point of this. And that being: fun and learning things and improving.
I have learnt how to animate falling sakura petals!
I have also learnt the reluctance of people letting me borrow their hair to pull.
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Old 2008-03-16, 08:20   Link #55
KiNA
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In previous sotm, I learn to draw rocks and onsen.. animate a water portion while having a steam effect. This sotm I learn how to make lightning. I failed at making a blood drop effect good enough to show saphyre tho

And I also value my hair more
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Old 2008-04-21, 04:12   Link #56
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
To tell the truth, i don't believe a theme this broad and interpretation/personal preference dependent is all that good of an idea. The confusion during the process showed this, as what constitutes "elegant" is very much a personal interpretation with no clear cut right or wrong. A lot of the signatures presented here look very nice, but there are not many that would qualify as "elegant" in my books ... on the other hand it made choosing easier, as i simply had to chose among the ones i thought passed that threshold
You aren't the first one to mention this. Unfortunately it was less a matter of using a vague topic and more about how to phrase it so that people would understand it. People were clinging to words like "formal" too strongly, and misinterpreting what Sephi was trying to convey. I don't really feel I did a very good job conveying his idea either, but I do think it helped put things a little more in perspective.

Essentially, the contest was about "pretty girls in pretty clothing" but just saying that is also vague. Sephi provided an image pack that I felt was pretty much exactly what he was trying to convey the theme was, but it didn't appear that people wanted to review it. Or if they did, they chose to ignore it or had other ideas.

I feel for the most part all of the sigs display some form of elegance. As you state, it's open to interpretation but I feel that's ok. The theme was compromised a bit, unfortunately, and I think that soured some people. I can only hope that next month won't be as difficult and that those sour feelings won't persist.

On the other hand, bumps like this are expected. As a forum, the contest is still new to us. This is only the third month the SOTM has been running. Personally, I'm amazed response is still strong. I fully expected things to drop off much more than they did (we're slightly less on entries this month than last), especially seeing that the theme was an issue.

It's still a bit of a learning experience trying to get things like this sorted out. But I'd hate to get in someones way and start creating rules about how themes should be created and handled. It takes some of the fun out of the process.

Perhaps the community wasn't ready for a theme like this, that's hard to say. But they still tried their best to create entries for this theme, and that's extremely commendable. There might have been some that missed the mark but there's still a lot of girls in pretty dresses and there's a lot of creativity on display this month.

I'm open to ideas on how to handle Themes from anyone who has some thoughts.
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Old 2008-04-21, 07:21   Link #57
Sephi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
To tell the truth, i don't believe a theme this broad and interpretation/personal preference dependent is all that good of an idea. The confusion during the process showed this, as what constitutes "elegant" is very much a personal interpretation with no clear cut right or wrong. A lot of the signatures presented here look very nice, but there are not many that would qualify as "elegant" in my books ... on the other hand it made choosing easier, as i simply had to chose among the ones i thought passed that threshold
Hence i gave up on this...

But suppose the theme choice wasn't that good. But with the images provided i thought people would still understand what i had in mind. But it appears not many people bothered with checking them. Or they just don't read anything beside the thread title.

Quote:
The theme was compromised a bit, unfortunately, and I think that soured some people. I can only hope that next month won't be as difficult and that those sour feelings won't persist.
I got a feeling the sour feelings will remain for awhile. And that i will be getting a few subtle stabs at my back from it to.

Overall, my biggest disappointment about this SOTM was the amount of complaints i did received and the very little amount of help people wanted to offer. I tried my best with the theme, and i really thought i had a nice theme going(looks at images). But there are limits to mine and Solace views on things. If only more people helped i'm sure we could of had a smoother SOTM with less unhappy people.

But unfortunately this is how the world works. Good things are taken for granted. And bad things are the only things people bother to talk about.
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Last edited by Sephi; 2008-04-21 at 07:37. Reason: Killed typo's
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Old 2008-04-21, 10:00   Link #58
SeedFreedom
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Just an idea, but i think it would be a good idea to have a thread dedicated to showcasing past winners and their sigs. That was people can check all the winners without having to search out 2 or 3 month old threads. Not sure how the admins would like so many threads for this contest but i think it would be great.
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Old 2008-04-21, 10:03   Link #59
KholdStare
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Is it too late to withdraw from the contest?
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Old 2008-04-21, 16:31   Link #60
xxmimixx
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LMAO the drama in the april entry phase thread was hillarious.

Anyways like SeedFreedom, we should have a thread from all of the winners of the SOTM contest and at the end of January, a contest for SOTY (Signature of the year) of 2008. That will be really cool, and would represent the thinking that the Artists did in 2008 ^^, and maybe someone is willing to give special prizes as well.
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