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Old 2008-03-17, 00:00   Link #1241
khryoleoz
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LOL! I think it depends on what part of the world where you find 16-year-old girls.
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Old 2008-03-17, 00:08   Link #1242
tenken627
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Originally Posted by LeftX View Post
Just because Clare entered the org young doesn't mean she graduates early. I don't think it's like high school where you do your 4 years and then set out into the world. Remember they took Alicia and Beth as babies. I think it's more like the foster care system where by a certain age they let you out.

I think Priscilla was actually younger than 16. Most females have reached their adult height by 16. If that were the case, then Priscilla is a really short claymore.

5'5" - Priscilla
5'7" - Clare, Elena
5'9" - Miria, Helen, Deneve, Ophelia, Noel, Sophia, Raphaela, Jean, Undine
5'11" - Teresa, Irene, Alicia, Beth, Flora
6'1" - Galatea

The average height of adult claymores is over 5'9". I would also argue that when we first met Elena and Clare in the series, she herself had not reached her final adult height either given how much we've witness how much room she had for development and after the 7 year skip, we see her toe-to-toe with Miria where they are the same height. I think in chapter 1, Clare is about 16. Priscilla when we saw her as a rookie, I would say is 14, maybe 15.
I'm not sure that you can use height as an example of age. My last ex was 5'0" tall, at the age of 22. There is just too much variation.

And I'm not sure if there is a set time from when a girl undergoes yoma transfusion and graduation. There could be a certain age where they make the girls undergo the yoma transfusion. It could be at a later time than when they first aquire them.

Alicia/Beth is a special case, they were brought as infants due to the experiment. I don't really see a large baby nursery center at the organization headquarters.

As for Priscilla, you may be right. I just see Priscilla as being older than Raki. Well, when she was awakened, she was older than Raki. How old could Raki be? 13? 14? 15? He doesn't seem like he's 12 or younger. He's too aware of his surrondings to be that young.

Last edited by tenken627; 2008-03-17 at 00:20.
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Old 2008-03-17, 00:14   Link #1243
[thousandmaster]
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It's hard to say, how old Raki was. Maybe, 13ish? And separated from Clare at the age of 14? Anyway, does anyone know, how long (months) he had been with Clare?
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Old 2008-03-17, 00:16   Link #1244
tenken627
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Originally Posted by LeftX View Post
If you look at the top panel of page 14 of the fourth extra story, there's no way those girls are 16. Several of them are really lacking in the chest area. Every girl I knew had boobs by the age of 16.
LOL.

I don't know about you, but not many Asian girls are really large breasted at age of 16.

Well, I dunno, I guess Claymores are supposed to be Caucasian girls.

I guess it depends.
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Old 2008-03-17, 00:24   Link #1245
tenken627
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Originally Posted by [thousandmaster] View Post
It's hard to say, how old Raki was. Maybe, 13ish? And separated from Clare at the age of 14? Anyway, does anyone know, how long (months) he had been with Clare?
Well, Raki certainly likes girls at the time he meets Clare. He knew what prostitutes were and was embarrassed at the thought of Clare smiling like one. It's not like he's 10 years old. I can see him being 13-14 at the age when he meets Clare.

Hmmm, that would make him 20-21 years old post time skip. We don't know what he looks like at that point though.
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Old 2008-03-17, 00:36   Link #1246
Cyclone
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Is it only Ophelia and Irene that have elf ears? When I was reading the manga up to the point of where Clare meets Ophelia, I assumed elf ears were common in Claymores because you didn't see many other claymores. At Pieta and after the 7 year time skip, you are introduced to MUCH more Claymores, and none of them have elf ears.
Actually, there we was one or 2 pairs of elf ears that perished in Pieta:
#20 Queenie (the lone Miria team casualty)
and I think there may have been one other...
maybe 24 Zelda? or 37 Natalie? maybe it's just my imagination about a 2nd one.
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Old 2008-03-17, 00:41   Link #1247
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Claymore are really more like Amazonians, they are on average taller the average woman in the claymoreverse. The point is, it doesn't seem as if a claymore is completely finished with adolescence when they graduate.

This brings up another point if we assume their ages before the 7 year skip to be:

Clare - 16~17 (I just think Clare is the youngest of the fab 4)
Helen/Deneve - 18~19 (They are the same age and given how Helen calls Miria big sis, that makes Miria the oldest)
Miria - 20~22

I think one of the reasons why we see the Ghost seven be so dominant right now is possibly because if you add 7 to those ages, you get claymores of the age 23~29. These Claymore are in their prime physically. I have always thought of Teresa/Irene to be in their mid to upper 20's when we saw them in action. So a huge factor in reaching one's highest rank may not be just pure talent but also having developed enough. Just like if you follow the careers of many Olympians, most athletes do not win their championships until they reach the prime age of their sport. The Ghost 7 are in their best position now to take on Priscilla now.
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Old 2008-03-17, 00:59   Link #1248
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We know from Irene's conversation with Clare that Claymores mature but they do not age, and if Teresa were alive still she would look exactly the same. Just like Irene. So that really throws a wrench in any theory about how old the claymores actually are or how long they are active. So no matter how old they are after they mature, claymores are always in their prime because they do not age. Raphaela is the oldest living claymore we know of and she does not look any different because of it. How old is she? We have no idea. She could have been stalking her sister for decades or more. There is very little reference for time. It reminds me of the movie Highlander.
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Old 2008-03-17, 01:28   Link #1249
tenken627
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Well, Claymores do not seem to live long period. The MiB say that they do not like their Claymores to live a long time. While it could be true that Clare and the others are actually 40+ years old, I tend to doubt it.

Rafaela is a special case. She was exiled instead of executed. And her age actually could reveal some interesting things. If say, Rafaela was 50 years old, what would that make Rubel? Rubel then could also possibly be 70 years old and doesn't necessarily look older from the time period when he exiled Rafaela to the time of giving Clare her orders. This would have to mean that the MiBs are beings that do not age normally either.

If the time difference between Rafaela's generation and Clare's generation was only 15 years, Rubel might be able to age 15 years and possibly still look the same if he was a regular adult human male. If the time difference was something like 30 years+, Rubel should look like an old, old man during Clare's time if he was human.

Last edited by tenken627; 2008-03-17 at 01:56.
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Old 2008-03-17, 01:44   Link #1250
LeftX
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Just because they do not age does not mean, they do not develop. Females are their most agile when they are young (gymnastics, figure skating), they are their strongest and most active in their 20's (most sports), and they build their most endurance into their late 30's and 40's (any extreme long distance sports).

We may not know how long ago the veterans reached their prime (Teresa, Irene, Raphaela, etc) but we do know there are many who are still developing and thus have not reached their prime. Even when we met Miria, she had not reached her prime yet despite her single digit rank. I'm just saying, the huge rift between high rank claymores versus their fellow claymores may not be simply differences in talent (which is really insurmountable) but more related to differences in age/development (which is more surmountable). It's like if you look at the roster of a college sports team, there are a bunch of players that only sit on the bench but not because they aren't talented but because they are the freshmen and cannot match up against seniors yet. I think there is a lot of evidence to suggest none of the Ghost 7 had reached their prime prior to the 7 year skip and that they have reached or are closer to their prime now.

I base this on the assumption Miria is the oldest of them and that she was nearing her prime at Pieta.
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Old 2008-03-17, 01:46   Link #1251
tenken627
what Yagi said
 
 
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Originally Posted by LeftX View Post
Claymore are really more like Amazonians, they are on average taller the average woman in the claymoreverse. The point is, it doesn't seem as if a claymore is completely finished with adolescence when they graduate.

This brings up another point if we assume their ages before the 7 year skip to be:

Clare - 16~17 (I just think Clare is the youngest of the fab 4)
Helen/Deneve - 18~19 (They are the same age and given how Helen calls Miria big sis, that makes Miria the oldest)
Miria - 20~22

I think one of the reasons why we see the Ghost seven be so dominant right now is possibly because if you add 7 to those ages, you get claymores of the age 23~29. These Claymore are in their prime physically. I have always thought of Teresa/Irene to be in their mid to upper 20's when we saw them in action. So a huge factor in reaching one's highest rank may not be just pure talent but also having developed enough. Just like if you follow the careers of many Olympians, most athletes do not win their championships until they reach the prime age of their sport. The Ghost 7 are in their best position now to take on Priscilla now.
You could be right. No way to be sure right now.

The 7 year time skip also makes Raki now the perfect age to start a romantic relationship with Clare.

How convenient.
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Old 2008-03-17, 01:50   Link #1252
Cyclone
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Originally Posted by tenken627 View Post
Well, Claymores do not seem to live long period. The MiB say that they do not like their Claymores to live a long time. While it could be true that Clare and the others are actually 40+ years old, I tend to doubt it.

Rafaela is a special case. She was exiled instead of executed. And her age actually could reveal some interesting things. If say, Rafaela was 50 years old, what would that make Rubel? Rubel then could also probably be 70 years old and doesn't necessarily look older from the time period when he exiled Rafaela to the time of giving Clare her orders. This would have to mean that the MiBs are beings that do not age normally either.

If the time difference between Rafaela's generation and Clare's generation was only 15 years, Rubel might be able to age 15 years and possibly still look the same if he was a regular adult human male.
Remember: Adult Rafaela met a young Teresa, and Teresa of course adopted a really young Clare when she became an adult (meaning Teresa and Clare both grew up during Raphaela's adulthood). I'd say at the very least 20-25 years had to have passed between Rafaela's time, and Pieta. Now add 7 more years to that to get to the present, and I think we can safely say that Rubel at least, doesn't age (but probably the same is true for all the MiBs).
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Old 2008-03-17, 01:57   Link #1253
chibamonster
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Claymores strength comes from infusing a youma's flesh and blood into their own body, not because of their physical human prowess or physical peak as they never lose their ability once they have it. Irene was still a phenomenal fighter even against the younger Ophelia. In the same breath Raphaela had not lost her power either despite being 3 generations old. Miria rose in rank as she was able to control her phantom ability, not because she reached a physical peak with age.

Claymores mature, unless they awaken, but do not age. Claymores are no longer just humans and their strength does not come in the same way it does to humans. Controlling youki or having a lot of it seems independent of age; Riful and Priscilla as an example of ones who had a lot of it early on not because of any training. Miria could just as easily be referred to as an older sister because of her higher rank as age would not matter to claymores. While thinking of a prime is a very human and understandable thing to do, Claymores are not human and we have seen no indication that age has any relationship to developing power in the Claymore universe.
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Old 2008-03-17, 01:59   Link #1254
tenken627
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Remember: Adult Rafaela met a young Teresa, and Teresa of course adopted a really young Clare when she became an adult (meaning Teresa and Clare both grew up during Raphaela's adulthood). I'd say at the very least 20-25 years had to have passed between Rafaela's time, and Pieta. Now add 7 more years to that to get to the present, and I think we can safely say that Rubel at least, doesn't age (but probably the same is true for all the MiBs).
Yeah, I think it's pretty safe to say that the MiBs aren't normal humans either. Or at least they might have been normal once but no longer.

The only chance I see of Rubel being a normal human is if Raphaela's generation was only one generation before Teresa's and maybe at most 12-15 years between the exile of Raphaela to the battle at Pieta.

That would probably have to mean that both Clare and Teresa spent around 3-4 years each in training and around 3-5 years of living as actual claymores (Clare: from time of graduation to time of Pieta)?

Last edited by tenken627; 2008-03-17 at 02:14.
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Old 2008-03-17, 02:03   Link #1255
Cyclone
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You could be right. No way to be sure right now.

The 7 year time skip also makes Raki now the perfect age to start a romantic relationship with Clare.

How convenient.
Bah - he's got his kiss already. He should just disappear and let Cid have some fun.
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Old 2008-03-17, 02:11   Link #1256
Fenrir_valindri
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Well I place their ages as follows (in my mind)

Note; this is pre-timeskip.

Clare: 18-20
Helen and Deneve: 19-21
Miria: 20-22
Galatea: 21-24


As for the older generation: (during their era)

Teresa: 24-29
Irene: 24-28
Priscilla: 17-19

Of course, their physical aging would probably stop around 25 or whenever it is the body reaches its prime.

I'd place Raki about 14-15
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Old 2008-03-17, 02:31   Link #1257
tenken627
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Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
Well I place their ages as follows (in my mind)

Note; this is pre-timeskip.

Clare: 18-20
Helen and Deneve: 19-21
Miria: 20-22
Galatea: 21-24


As for the older generation: (during their era)

Teresa: 24-29
Irene: 24-28
Priscilla: 17-19

Of course, their physical aging would probably stop around 25 or whenever it is the body reaches its prime.

I'd place Raki about 14-15
I have around the exact same ages for each in my mind. I agree with the 25 physical aging limit. That's around the time a woman can look fully mature while still look young at the same time, the mid 20s.
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Old 2008-03-17, 02:42   Link #1258
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Call me crazy but it seems the art style is fairly inconsistent in the manga, especially in the early issues, to judge ages for me. They all look so baby faced at first. I am actually more effected by the Claymore's voice actors from the anime in deciding how old they sound and even then, it was more of a gauge for their mental maturity than their physical appearance. The difference in hair color also had an effect on me; for instance Irene seemed very mature with her extreme silver hair coupled with her cool and collected voice made me think she was older than Teresa initially. Teresa's voice made me think she was an accomplished veteran far older than Clare. I figured she was in her 40's although that was just my personal response as I love Romi Paku's raspy voice. Manga Teresa seemed much more child like which gave her a very different feel. Raphaela seemed younger than Teresa and Irene when she showed up on her secret mission especially with the Voice they gave her in the anime. Even now it seems that her obsession with Luciella had stunted her maturity in regards to her relationship with her sister. Once again, just my gut response.

It seems easier to judge their maturity than their age for me. I know middle aged women who are sillier than Helen for instance and see it more of a personality trait than an indication of age. Deneve seemed far more mature, but I know she and Helen are in the same generation. Personally I thought Clare was in her late 20's (27+) as she had a whole claymore career behind her when I first went through the series until I learned Claymores do not age so all that went out the window. The Irene we meet later in the series is one I would go help do her gardening and not because I thought she was old, but because I had ulterior motives.
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Old 2008-03-17, 02:52   Link #1259
Cyclone
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Originally Posted by tenken627 View Post
Yeah, I think it's pretty safe to say that the MiBs aren't normal humans either. Or at least they might have been normal once but no longer.

The only chance I see of Rubel being a normal human is if Raphaela's generation was only one generation before Teresa's and maybe at most 12-15 years between the exile of Raphaela to the battle at Pieta.

That would probably have to mean that both Clare and Teresa spent around 3-4 years each in training and around 3-5 years of living as actual claymores (Clare: from time of graduation to time of Pieta)?
That would still age him about 20 years to present and he still looks the same.

Those numbers I think are a bit unrealistically low.
- Rapahela's time to supress her Youki and meet Teresa - say 2 years (after which she met young Teresa) [yes - I know there is much speculation about this interval].
- The age difference between young Teresa and the Teresa who met Clare looks at least 8-10 years to me (12/14 -> 24/27+ ish).
- Post-Pricilla Clare to the Raki days were also at least 10 years (8 -> 18/20+ish). [She was a claymore for quite a while too as we know Elena started later, and ended earlier than Clare - and that had to take a few years at least (they mentioned not seeing each other in a long time too).]
- and 7 years since Pieta...

and we have some 30 years easy I think (with fairly conservative minimum bounds estimates) -- Spanning the time since Rubel talks to Raphaela right after the Luciela incident, and when he laughs after Clarice's report and remembers that the leader at Pieta was Miria and doubts that she would just obidiently die in vain.

If we assume the Zemas newborn twins are Alicia and Beth, they looked to be 20+ish during the Pieta days too.
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Old 2008-03-17, 02:58   Link #1260
tenken627
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Well, determining Claymore ages isn't really an exact science or anything

Unlike many other animes, the voices for most of the Claymores are a little more deeper and more warrior like. Much different from the many female voices you hear in most other anime series.

I agree that you can't always go by personality to determine someone's age.

As for Clare, I've always had the feeling that she was a pretty young Claymore. She doesn't know about many things and has to be told of them. This is probably due to the manga-ka introducing storylines and aspects of the Claymore world to the reader, but he made it seem like Clare actually knew little about various things. Like offensive and defensive types of Claymores. Or what Voracious Eaters really are. etc. etc.
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