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View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 22 Rating
Perfect 10 151 62.66%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 52 21.58%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 22 9.13%
7 out of 10 : Good 9 3.73%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 0.83%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.41%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.41%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.41%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 0.83%
Voters: 241. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-03-15, 01:00   Link #661
Ardi220288
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase View Post
this thread is getting depressing
really ? I find it funny though that every time a new episode going to come out someone would bashing about the series however when the episode just fresh come out like 3-4 days they're gone like doesn't even exist

when I show their argument around to hear a lot of other people opinion they laugh really hard - so please keep us entertained
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Old 2008-03-15, 01:25   Link #662
Angela Sanctisstessa
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wow.. just wow.... somehow it's beyond a regular gundam fan's comprehension
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Old 2008-03-15, 02:01   Link #663
wingdarkness
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Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
You say it's about execution, WD, which is where I'll bite...however:

Yes, Kira was basically untouchable. And what the hell were the Meisters when they had the element of surprise? They completely cleaned house and you know it. In fact, it wasn't until they got completely WTFOHNOES outnumbered that they really more or less came to the gates of heaven...but what about that space battle? Once again, Tieria surprised with Nadleeh, and then Hallelujah surprised by waking up Kyrios. In fact, so far, the gundams, dare I say it, are EVERY FUCKING BIT AS UBER as anything before the Freedom or the Wing Zero was. In fact, IT'S THE MEISTERS THAT SUCK. If it was Heero and Kira and Amuro and hell, let's even say SHINN for shits and giggles in those Gundams, they'd be dodging those 800 and weaving to a quick retreat and leaving those 800 looking like idiots.

The fact is that this "presentation" is simply a result of the current Gundam pilots possibly being the absolute worst in franchise history, when you can have Ali Al Sarges hop into the Zwei and then GGPWN Johann, who was acquainted with Eins for who knows how long, when Ali only saw Zwei for several minutes!

Your presentation isn't the grunts being necessarily good, WD. It's the gundam meisters that suck horribly, and we've been having that shoved down our throats since moment 1--that all the time, they were winning because of two SIGNIFICANT factors:

1) Surprise
2) Technology

Now that the powers have GN-Xs and are hunting down both Thrones and the original Meisters, they're lucky to survive from episode to episode not because their opponents are necessarily THAT GREAT--but because THEY ARE BAD. If you recall, Heero Yuy in Wing was an ace to end all aces except Zechs, since Zechs had more or less a VERY similar background.

Similarly, in SEED, Athrun was the TOP ace of ALL of ZAFT. He was number one in just about EVERYTHING (I think except gunning when he had the flu and came in 2nd to Yzak), while Kira was so smart that he knew MSes inside and out. Kira may not have originally been the greatest PILOT when the show set out, but A) he taught himself by sitting in the Strike's cockpit 24/7 when he realized only he could pilot it, and B) he was so fucking smart that he could figure out Strike, AND Freedom (and I assume SF is more of the same) in seconds.

So let's see:

In GSD, Kira had:

1) Surprise
2) Tech
3) SKILL
4) A specially custom-designed Gundam
5) Lacus Dust

To say that OMG MEISTERS VULNERABLE KIRA WAS GOD GSD SO STUPID is being a hypocrite in judgment! Yes, I'll give you this: the reused animation made me SICK. It was a travesty, plain and simple. But aside from the horrid animation, if you're going to judge Goddess and God on the same line you're going to judge the meisters, then I expect nothing LESS than complete dismemberment of any and all enemies. Kira has far more skill, far more brains, and far superior technology than the meisters do, with the same amount of surprise until he was called out in SF (at which point he had an ARMY behind him).

And you can't really call out Kira for not getting touched...Strike got thrashed around quite a bit when he piloted it, Freedom got nearly decimated by the Providence and then of course, we all remember the travesty that was GSD 34. And speaking of which, why do people say "OMFG EVERYONE ELSE SUCKS THAT'S WHY KIRA WINS" when Athrun specifically asked him "Why did you get shot down?" and Kira answered "Oh, I wasn't trying". People cheered that and when Kira DID try "OMFG THE CREATOR IS A KIRA FANBOY HE MADE KIRA GOD WAAH WAAH".

Just as G00 is trying to hammer into us that the Meisters are completely outclassed in piloting by the nations' best (Soma, Sergei, Graham, Ali), then I don't think GSD could have done any more to hammer it into us that Kira A) resigned himself that he's Lacus's sword and B) since accepting that, decided to become the best damn pilot in the world.

In the end though, it doesn't matter. No amount of "THIS PILOT IS GOD INCARNATE" pounding would ever convince people that the protagonist is untouchable, simply because no matter how good the protagonist is, people want him to take hits anyway, no matter how ridiculous it seems, which is why GSD 34 was such a cop-out to me...and hell, it was a cop-out to the director himself which was why Kira said "I'm not trying" and then when everyone said "BS, you were trying", he went and OWNED Shinn at Orb, and then Gruntified Rey in space.

And furthermore, if you're Patrick Zala, and you want to END THE WAR NOW, you have the enemies' most advanced technology, are you going to just one-up them with Strike Mk.II? No. You're going to build the most powerful Gundams you possibly can. Hence Freedom and Justice and Providence. And then, if you're LACUS CLYNE, and you KNOW these pilots PERSONALLY, KNOW how they function and care for them, are you going to make suits that are just slightly better than the rest for fun and fingernail-biting edge-of-your-seat battles, or are you going to make the best most powerful godlike gundams you can?

Time and again, there has been justification for a pilot being damn good. Time and again, there has been justification for an MS so powerful existing (and inevitably finding its way into the hands of that ace of aces) that it can decimate entire fleets alone. Hello...the Wing Gundam Zero was SO powerful that it was deemed to be TOO POWERFUL TO BE BUILT.

The bottom line is that there was always justification for protagonists being next to godlike, which is why on a good day, only their rival themselves can lay a hand on them (okay, fine, there's also giant inanimate rocks just to deal with your pesky jedi newtypes without cannons of doom). There have always been justifications for doomsday weapons built into sparkly gundams (okay, though I don't know why all of the doomsday gundams have to be built in these gleaming blues and whites).

Of course, NONE of that matters to people that say OMG G00 IS GREAT. All that matters is that the protagonist is VULNERABLE, which makes absolutely no sense in terms of the universe. Shit, for a real life example, just look at the F-22. That thing has every single bell and whistle built into it that'll simply be mind-boggling if one ever gets shot down when F-15s and F-16s suffered more DOMESTIC TRAINING CRASHES than they've EVER been shot down (in fact, neither F-15 nor F-16 have ever lost an air-to-air engagement if I'm correct).

Frankly, I buy into "only a gundam can beat a gundam", since gundams are AT HEART designed to be like F-22s--with every single feature known built into them to make them the ultimate fighting machines. If a gundam can get gruntsmacked, then it fails as a gundam. Why put in all of those resources to build this sparkly "soopa-robot", when for a fraction of the resources, you can have three "real robos" that pwn this shiny soopa robot?

And as for vulnerable meisters, yeah, they are...but not because the grunts are any better. I can basically assure you that for all of their fancy formations, the Wing Zero's WTFENORMOUS BEAM BLAST OF DOOM would wipe them out every bit as nicely, as would Kira's "spam every single direction you can possibly move while spamming your general direction" freedom fireworks. The meisters suck. The meisters suck. I do not know how long I have to reiterate this.

If you call trashy piloting "good presentation", then I say it's far more a cop-out than good piloting.



LOL Wow...That might be your greatest post ever!
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Old 2008-03-15, 02:57   Link #664
Sir Dearka
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Originally Posted by Var View Post
Comparing 00 to SEED is like comparing The Hobbit to Harry Potter. They're both children's books, but, well, that's about it. They have different stories, different levels of motif and theme, and one is downright a children's book while the other is not limited... hint: The one (childish) I'm talking about uses Deus Ex Machina much like SEED and starts with an H and ends with arry Potter.

But in all seriousness. The plot of 00 is not really to be compared to SEED, they are different stories with very different ways of telling them. The level of sophistication is also a discerning feature. As much as you may want to suger SEED up it doesn't hold a candle to 00 in terms of politics and actual military planning. While 00 has nothing on SEED for WTFEPIC battles of beamspam.
Well, there's still the matter of establishing whether one likes Hobbit or Harry Potter more (or both of them). That's were the evaluation kicks in. It's quite natural as it was always in the domain of subjective.

I, for instance, prefer animes with lots of characters' personal drama and 'WTF moments'. Which is basically why 00 loses to SEED or Zeta a bit in my eyes. Lacks this 'substance' that makes my heart beat faster. At least in comparison to the fore-mentioned series. Still, it's a decent show so far, IMO. And in fact, the so-called 'realism' is the very last factor I'd consider in my evaluation. I'm no friggin' military man or that down-to-earth person to care about it, really. This is all science-FICTION to me. It was meant not to be that real.
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Old 2008-03-15, 03:56   Link #665
KiNA
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Thank God I'm migrating to ep 23 episode thread discussion in half an hour (or is it shown already)

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Old 2008-03-16, 22:12   Link #666
Stratos
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to not go into the seed dicussion in a non gunda seed thread im just gona ask my gundam 00 question insteed

when Aeolia Schenberg get's shoot in Vedas room, do you think he actully dies? as i se it he was in statis but when (the person i cant remember the name of) shoot hes caupsule the glass do not break even after multiple shoots... bulletproof glass maybe ?
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Old 2008-03-16, 22:41   Link #667
Demongod86
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Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
to not go into the seed dicussion in a non gunda seed thread im just gona ask my gundam 00 question insteed

when Aeolia Schenberg get's shoot in Vedas room, do you think he actully dies? as i se it he was in statis but when (the person i cant remember the name of) shoot hes caupsule the glass do not break even after multiple shoots... bulletproof glass maybe ?
As of ep 23, there's a gaping hole above his right eyebrow with a little bit of blood floating around. I'm not sure if that qualifies as the area that the brain would be at, but he may very well be dead.
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Old 2008-03-17, 03:18   Link #668
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
As of ep 23, there's a gaping hole above his right eyebrow with a little bit of blood floating around. I'm not sure if that qualifies as the area that the brain would be at, but he may very well be dead.
Those who wear tin foil hats might claim the body to be a clone/dummy. I personally doubt it because it is too conveluted. I think we can consider him head, if only because we have too many characters already.

"Prince Ali"'s purging of name characters in the last few weeks is cutting the cast numbers down, but I think there isn't room for Aeolia except in the form of pre-organized messages.
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Old 2008-03-17, 13:29   Link #669
demon_god04
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I'm not sure if this was mentioned already but seriously, if I was Aeolia Schenberg and forsaw the possiblity that someone will come into the Veda room with "evil intentions" to the point of preparing a message and everything for when someone killed me I'd set the place to self-destruct after the message finishes killing my killers. Maybe I'm just vindictive but I'd try to take the people who killed me with me.
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Old 2008-03-17, 13:43   Link #670
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
I'm not sure if this was mentioned already but seriously, if I was Aeolia Schenberg and forsaw the possiblity that someone will come into the Veda room with "evil intentions" to the point of preparing a message and everything for when someone killed me I'd set the place to self-destruct after the message finishes killing my killers. Maybe I'm just vindictive but I'd try to take the people who killed me with me.
Self-destruction devices are not practical, which is why it doesn't fit with 00's practical design mindset. It's harder to do that than you think.
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Old 2008-03-17, 13:46   Link #671
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Self-destruction devices are not practical, which is why it doesn't fit with 00's practical design mindset. It's harder to do that than you think.
Didn't stop them from doing that in Raiders of the Lost Ark.
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Old 2008-03-17, 14:33   Link #672
demon_god04
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Self-destruction devices are not practical, which is why it doesn't fit with 00's practical design mindset. It's harder to do that than you think.
I'm no expert on things like that but still I'd just hate the thought of being killed without being able to atleast take a shot at the guy who did it, but thats just me
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Old 2008-03-17, 14:35   Link #673
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX View Post
Didn't stop them from doing that in Raiders of the Lost Ark.
...Or in any of other countless movies.

But there is a time and place for everything. Randomly collapsing a place just become someone dies is too silly for 00.
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Old 2008-03-17, 17:56   Link #674
DJ_RockmanX
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But there is a time and place for everything. Randomly collapsing a place just become someone dies is too silly for 00.
At least we agree on that.
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Old 2008-03-19, 14:26   Link #675
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by demon_god04 View Post
I'm no expert on things like that but still I'd just hate the thought of being killed without being able to atleast take a shot at the guy who did it, but thats just me
Or how about NOT having yourself in cryos in that area?
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Old 2008-03-20, 19:12   Link #676
Var
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Or how about NOT having yourself in cryos in that area?
Why not though, for this case at least. He's with the heart of Veda. If that gets cracked he'll be discovered either way so what's the difference really.
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Old 2008-03-21, 11:16   Link #677
Dean_the_Young
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Originally Posted by Var View Post
Why not though, for this case at least. He's with the heart of Veda. If that gets cracked he'll be discovered either way so what's the difference really.
Personally, I'm wondering why he's in cyro pod in a depressurized environment. What was he expecting, that someone would re-close the airtight room, pressurize it with oxygen, and then open it up? Alejandro could have merely opened the capsule, and Aeolia would have been just as dead.
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Old 2008-03-21, 12:02   Link #678
Var
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Personally, I'm wondering why he's in cyro pod in a depressurized environment. What was he expecting, that someone would re-close the airtight room, pressurize it with oxygen, and then open it up? Alejandro could have merely opened the capsule, and Aeolia would have been just as dead.
I'm guessing it wasn't designed or even able to be opened there unless someone applied enough force too open it. I figure he left himself there to be taken away when the world changed and awakened in the world.

Of all the places available, though, I'd think that's probably the safest place.
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