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Old 2008-03-18, 10:54   Link #1321
Flar
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Originally Posted by hell88 View Post
I don't think anyone would argue with that.
In all honesty, I would, and I would mean it, but it's not worth the trouble.
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Old 2008-03-18, 11:06   Link #1322
majin_vegeta
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This has been troubling me as well. Are the handlers actually demons themselves? They should be showing the signs of age by now, but none of them look the worse for wear. And how come they aren't occasionally killed when someone awakens?

And no, Pri is the top honcho right now. There isn't a single charcter in the manga that can take her out by his or her self right now. The mangaka has done a pretty good job of emphasizing that. She is twice as strong as Riful of the west, and none of them, save Alicia and beth would have stood a chance against her. I also don't think we should count an awakened Rafela. She hasn't shown any indication of heading in that way, so why bother to add her into the mix.

We can only hope for Claire to get a major power up for her eventual fight with her. And on a side note, I really hope Raki is a male claymore now. I wonder how powerful he could become with the flesh of Isley in his body (no pun intended for the yaoi girls). I figured he could probably grow to actually be useful.
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Old 2008-03-18, 11:11   Link #1323
hell88
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I was thinking that Raphaela might have awakened because of Riful. When Raphaela killed her sister she probably left and ran into Riful and Dauf. Where Riful probably tortured her to awaken or she died. But I hope she's not dead she has to many unaswered questions that a lot of people want to know. If she did awaken and is with Riful she could probably kill her and leave when the chance is right. Or mabye she ran off if she saw Riful and is hiding from her.
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Old 2008-03-18, 11:13   Link #1324
Simley
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How would he get isley's flesh in him...? I don't see Isley mutilating himself, cutting off his arm or whatever to put into Raki. However, what I can see happening, is the possibilty that Raki becomes an excellent swordsman with the help of Isley. Remember even when he was faced with a deadly situation against Ophelia, he fought till the bitter end. I can see Isley being impressed and maybe even see himself in Raki as a young boy.

If Raki becomes quite good at swordplay as a human, I can see Isley seeing the potential and making him a claymore. Though, not with his own body, we still don't know if it's possible to use an AB instead of a yoma. I think even if you use the power of an AB, you still only have 1 / 4 of the power, it would be a hybrid similar to clare. Just because the AB's are so much stronger than regular yoma doesn't mean their flesh would be as strong. It's think it's kinda like putting a claymore into a human (clare)

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Originally Posted by hell88 View Post
I was thinking that Raphaela might have awakened because of Riful. When Raphaela killed her sister she probably left and ran into Riful and Dauf. Where Riful probably tortured her to awaken or she died. But I hope she's not dead she has to many unaswered questions that a lot of people want to know. If she did awaken and is with Riful she could probably kill her and leave when the chance is right. Or mabye she ran off if she saw Riful and is hiding from her.
I don't see Raphaela being caught by Riful...if the ghost 7 can escape, she can escape if needed as well. Regardless, if Raphaela was somehow caught, she's been surpressing her yoki for so long, I don't think Riful's torture would be enough to make her release. She would rather die, other claymores have been strong enough to resist the temptation to awaken (of course they die), but still I don't see Rapaela being any weaker than them.
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Old 2008-03-18, 11:29   Link #1325
majin_vegeta
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I understand what you are saying, but I was under the impression that they AO became Youma when they let go. I thought their bodies and mind were completely taken over by the Youma inside them. Thus, their complete change from halfling to a full demon. I should probably re-read the manga at this point. It has been a long time since I read the earlier chapters. Oh, do you know what kind of Youma flesh they use normally? All of the Youma we have seen so far don't seem like they would be strong enough to produce a powerful claymore.
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Old 2008-03-18, 11:43   Link #1326
khryoleoz
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So yeah, this manga is the best out right now..
I don't know. There are plenty of strong contenders for that spot. Right now I'm especially fond of KissxSis, Berserk, and Nodame Cantabile.
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Old 2008-03-18, 11:44   Link #1327
Simley
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Originally Posted by majin_vegeta View Post
I understand what you are saying, but I was under the impression that they AO became Youma when they let go. I thought their bodies and mind were completely taken over by the Youma inside them. Thus, their complete change from halfling to a full demon. I should probably re-read the manga at this point. It has been a long time since I read the earlier chapters. Oh, do you know what kind of Youma flesh they use normally? All of the Youma we have seen so far don't seem like they would be strong enough to produce a powerful claymore.
nah, ur right, and it's partly speculation on my part as well...but I always figured when combining human and yoma, their powers were increased, but the human mind does remain in charge. There is evidence to indicate awakening does make you more powerful, as does partial awakening. We don't know if the basic physiology changes within the claymore, or simply if they become more "compatible" with their yoma sides. I kinda figured if a claymore is a halfling, and an AB is simply a full awakened halfling, just with the yoma mind in control, isn't the AB still a halfling? It's just that the hybridization process makes the halfing much stronger than usual.

I agree though, putting AB flesh in a human would prove to be an interesting experiment. We can guess all we want, but until it's tested, we can never know for sure. With that being said, how exactly do you go about getting AB flesh...which part of the yoma's are needed to make a claymore? In teresa's case, clare used her head. With most AB's, even if you decapitate their heads, they remain alive. You have to chop them into pieces to kill them. Can the torso be used? can the arms or legs be used? who knows these things

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Originally Posted by khryoleoz View Post
I don't know. There are plenty of strong contenders for that spot. Right now I'm especially fond of KissxSis, Berserk, and Nodame Cantabile.
yeah, I used to love berserk as well, spending hours on their forums speculating...the release is even slower than claymore, and I've lost touch for a long time. I don't know the other two, but anyways, there are lots of manga that are as good as Claymore, I love reading them...like one piece, I think it's pure brilliance, but I've never discussed/read threads with the level of interest as I do with claymore
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Old 2008-03-18, 12:08   Link #1328
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Come to think of it, the overwhelming vast majority of my posts are in the Claymore sub-forum. Part of it has to do with the people who post here. I find posts by anh_minh, chibamonster, gooral, fenrir_valindri, flar, tempest, VR to name a few (my apologies to those who are worthy of mention but escape my immediate recollection) stimulating.

The AB morality debate was particularly fascinating, but my participation there demonstrated how much my argumentation needs work.
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Old 2008-03-18, 12:14   Link #1329
nines
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Raki will never become a claymore i just feel that his character is just to much a wimp at most he will become a bad ass swordsman that can take on normal yomas not like an AB or something. Because if he is still with isley he probably teaches him so knarly stuff or maybe some how Raki learned how to use yoki without being yoma or claymore :O
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Old 2008-03-18, 12:29   Link #1330
majin_vegeta
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I don't think they are going to keep raki a human. This manga doesn't really deal with humans as main players. If he has any hope of becoming a main player, he'll need a major powerup. Taking in the flesh of Youma is the only way Raki will be able to compete with even some of the weakest Youma. Normal humans just don't have the speed and strength necessary to fight on the same level. Here's to hoping we'll get some flash backs to Raki's lessons with Isley.

Or, let's just hope he's already dead.
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Old 2008-03-18, 12:31   Link #1331
nines
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yea please just let raki die lol
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Old 2008-03-18, 13:15   Link #1332
tenken627
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I'm still not sure an Awakened Being is 100% yoma.

Their natural form is still that of a human, it takes energy and effort to shift into their Awakened state. Luciela, after her fight with Isley, couldn't hold her Awakened state because she was too injured and exhausted. She was left so vulnerable that Rafaela could just walk up to her and give her the bear hug of death. And she was an Abyssal One.

I still contend that ABs are still a mix of human and yoma, with the yoma side taking control of the mind. The yoma control of the mind might not even be 50% or more. The human aspect of the mind is still there, just that the yoma side has a stronger say. Even if they kept their memories, you would think that a fully yoma controlled mind wouldn't undergo psychological trauma like Priscilla (as an AB) reverting back to that of a child.

The mind is a powerful thing. It's the reason why Claymores were created in the first place. Someone with the power and abilities of a yoma combined with the mind control/ingenuity of a human. That might explain why hybrids are so much more powerful than regular yomas.

It's like that urban legend of the old grandmother who lifted a car to save her grandson.

Last edited by tenken627; 2008-03-18 at 14:03.
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Old 2008-03-18, 13:45   Link #1333
hell88
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[QUOTE=tenken627;1469344]She was left so vulnerable that Rafaela could just walk up to her and give her the bear hug of death.QUOTE]

I think we should call it the death hug, it sounds cool.
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Old 2008-03-18, 14:34   Link #1334
chibamonster
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If they can use a claymore as the base for another claymore I think an AB would be possible as well. Although no way to know if that is the kind of sample you want running around. Isley is super old and very cunning so if anyone would know how a claymore was made he would be the one. The thing that would be the most interesting to me about Raki as a claymore would be the fact that male Claymore's awaken so quickly. That is something that has been mentioned but not really explored because the basic rule is that male claymores = AB's automatically. Would Raki be any different?

As for Claymore being the best manga or not it is all subjective as there is plenty of awesome stuff out there and everyone has different tastes. I read a lot of other manga, but none with the concern for characters that I have in Claymore for the time being. If anyone knows of anything they think is awesome like Claymore I'll check it out because it would just mean more great stories to read. I've gotten a bunch of great recommendations off the forum so far which has been a big help. There is some manga / anime that detonates my mind with awesomeness.
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Old 2008-03-18, 14:37   Link #1335
nines
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male ABs dont waken auto when denevu helen maria and clare ran into the first male AB they ever fought they said that the guys eventually like get all sexeyed up or something and then when they cant lol they Awaken.
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Old 2008-03-18, 14:40   Link #1336
Awakened
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I don't think that the average claymore is stronger than a regular Yoma.

Claymore use there yoki to give them the strength to carry there claymore, and to improve there speed.

Yoma use their body as a weapon and a shield. When going up against someone with a sword, using your body to defend yourself is not a good idea.

So far only Teresa and Miata fought against a Yoma/AB with their hands. Imagine if Jean had no claymore in her hand when she used her drill-sword against Dauf.

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If they can use a claymore as the base for another claymore I think an AB would be possible as well. Although no way to know if that is the kind of sample you want running around. Isley is super old and very cunning so if anyone would know how a claymore was made he would be the one. The thing that would be the most interesting to me about Raki as a claymore would be the fact that male Claymore's awaken so quickly. That is something that has been mentioned but not really explored because the basic rule is that male claymores = AB's automatically. Would Raki be any different?
If Raki surppresses his yoki, he should be fin.
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Last edited by Awakened; 2008-03-18 at 14:52.
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Old 2008-03-18, 14:47   Link #1337
majin_vegeta
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I'm not sure if that is true. They are completely suppressing their youki right now. But they are still fighting with crazy speed and strength. Or did I mis read that chapter? Are the fab 4 suppressing their stuff? And if so, how can they fight at the level that they do?
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Old 2008-03-18, 14:55   Link #1338
tenken627
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I don't think that the average claymore is stronger than a regular Yoma.

Claymore use there yoki to give them the strength to carry there claymore, and to improve there speed.

Yoma use their body as a weapon and a shield. When going up against someone with a sword, using your body to defend yourself is not a good idea.

So far only Teresa and Miata fought against a Yoma/AB with their hands. Imagine if Jean had no claymore in her hand when she used her drill-sword against Dauf.
Part of a human's strength is the ability to use tools. There are numerous animals in the world today that can physically overpower a human. But humans can conquer them through sheer ingenuity (traps) or tools (weapons).

A yoma might be able to overpower a Claymore physically, but that doesn't mean that they are stronger overall.

I can see what you are saying: that the average yoma would be stronger than the average Claymore without any weapons. I just don't think you can take out the weapon part, because that's part of what makes them human, with the strength and abilities of a human.

Teresa and Miata doing that with their bare hands? That just shows how physically powerful they are.

Last edited by tenken627; 2008-03-18 at 15:31.
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Old 2008-03-18, 15:14   Link #1339
khryoleoz
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So far only Teresa and Miata fought against a Yoma/AB with their hands.
Teresa didn't just fight any AB, but an awakened former number one. She twisted Rosemary's arm off! You know, like this. :does the hand motion:
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Old 2008-03-18, 15:18   Link #1340
nines
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Yea teresa is in clare so maybe theirs a slight possibility that if teresa ever takes over clares body shell like flip out and go hand to giant ugly AB lol
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