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Old 2008-03-22, 13:28   Link #41
Sides
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
Correction Taoism was a religion before confucian was even born. It was the primary religion in China until the introduction of Buddhism and both religion has exist side by side in China for the last several thousand years.
Technically taoism isn't a religion in a sense, just as confucianism. It is only because the influences of folk religion and through merging it became a religion. The core is basically to give a example of a way of living.

About Olympic Games and World Cup, it is about corruption see World Cup 2006 in germany and how they won the bet.

About HK, it is just a joke, the 50 years no change agreement, that is. If you don't have a chinese nationality, like british overseas, you do get discriminated by the system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geta Boshi View Post
That doesnt make a Tibet a part of China . Korea was almost like a fiefdom of Japan for nearly 200 years that doesnt give Japanese right over Korea . Also when Buddhism was introduced in Tibet , China and Tibet were two separate countries.
Doesn't matter technically tibet is a part of today's china, from PRC's and ROC's point of view.
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Old 2008-03-22, 13:29   Link #42
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Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle View Post
I personally don't give a damn whether Tibetans want independence or not, but I'm annoyed at the commies sullying the name of my race time and time again, giving the ill-informed westerner more excuses to bash everything Chinese here and there.
I could not agree more. I can't even get my Chinese Visa to go back now that some damn Human Rights Activist set fire to part of the embassy...

I seriously don't see the point of keeping Tibet though, besides keeping China looking like a chicken on the world map, lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
Correction Taoism was a religion before confucian was even born. It was the primary religion in China until the introduction of Buddhism and both religion has exist side by side in China for the last several thousand years.
It's only a religion in Western eyes, just like Confucianism. It's a system of philosophy with strong cultural influence, nothing more.
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Old 2008-03-22, 13:46   Link #43
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Originally Posted by Geta Boshi View Post
I think the Olympics should be boycotted . A country which illegally occupies another for more 50 odd years doesnt deserve the games . The sad part is Yes it will be devastating blow for Chinese Pride but the fun part is it will be a mighty smack on the cheek for commies.
Then did you support the Olympic games in Tokyo? Okinawa was once a independent country that was forcibly occupied by Japan during the turn of the 20th century?

Would you also support the Independence of Scotland and Wales if they declare independence? How about Basque on the border of France and Spain? Do you support thier independence? And how about Northern Ireland?
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Old 2008-03-22, 13:55   Link #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
Then did you support the Olympic games in Tokyo? Okinawa was once a independent country that was forcibly occupied by Japan during the turn of the 20th century?
I wasnt born then so it doesnt concern me one bit . BUT this Olympics does and I want to see it Boycotted

Quote:
Would you also support the Independence of Scotland and Wales if they declare independence? How about Basque on the border of France and Spain? Do you support their independence? And how about Northern Ireland?
Yes I would but First I want to start with China as its currently in spotlight . Also going by your examples you do acknowledge Tibet is illegally occupied by China
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Old 2008-03-22, 14:01   Link #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geta Boshi View Post
Yes I would but First I want to start with China as its currently in spotlight . Also going by your examples you do acknowledge Tibet is illegally occupied by China
And what about america, if the tribes what a proper own nation, or even claim back the continent?
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Old 2008-03-22, 14:04   Link #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrana View Post
I lived in China for 14 years and never seen one person practice Taoism and Confucianism. I think wikipedia need update their database.

official Chinese government statistic web site

http://www.zytzb.org.cn/zytzbwz/reli...0212190045.htm

there are 20 million Buddism monks in China, only 2.5 million Taoism Monks
Humm... that is an interesting fact.

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Originally Posted by from CNN
Campaigners also want China to lift its ban on allowing foreign journalists into Tibet.
Now does this make China more suspicious? I understand that some journalist exaggerate the truth to other worldly proportions but w/o them the information from a some what real perspective isn't included.
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Old 2008-03-22, 14:04   Link #47
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Besides the resource and military reasons I mentioned above,

Quote:
Originally Posted by tripperazn View Post
I seriously don't see the point of keeping Tibet though, besides keeping China looking like a chicken on the world map, lol
Hu Jintao, the Paramount Leader of the PRC, has built his career on the basis of the results of strong measures against Tibet (1989-1990). It is critical for him to accept liberal attitude in Tibetan affairs. In addition, the warlike factions in the People's Liberation Army have grown these days so that its control requires much sensitivity. He cannot show "weak" thought.
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Old 2008-03-22, 14:06   Link #48
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Sides are you trying to Validate China illegally occupation of Tibet with random examples . I will answer this question with another What about Aboriginals in Australia ? ...And giving North America is a horrible example as down south you had cleansing taking place at the hands of Conquistadors . Native Americans atleast have some of there culture and language intact . You do realize whole of South America speaks Spanish and Portuguese

I also hope one athlete has the guts to drape himself with a Tibetan flag during the Victory Lap or even Podium that would be so humiliating to commies
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Old 2008-03-22, 14:07   Link #49
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Originally Posted by tripperazn View Post

I seriously don't see the point of keeping Tibet though, besides keeping China looking like a chicken on the world map, lol
You need to read back on Chinese form the mid 1800s onward. This mindset has its base formt he opium wars and the force leasing of HongKong to the British. Any Chinese leader who appears weak to foreign powers won't last long.

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Originally Posted by Sides View Post
And what about america, if the tribes what a proper own nation, or even claim back the continent?

funny you should mention the US and the Native Americans.

http://www.republicoflakotah.com/

Lakotah Unilateral Withdrawal from All Agreements and Treaties with the United States of America

We as the freedom loving Lakotah People are the predecessor sovereign of Dakota Territory as evidenced by the Treaties with the United States Government, including, but not limited to, the Treaty of 1851 and the Treaty of 1868 at Fort Laramie.
Lakotah, formally and unilaterally withdraws from all agreements and treaties imposed by the United States Government on the Lakotah People.



So how many people here supports the Lakotah for Independence?
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Old 2008-03-22, 14:16   Link #50
Sides
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geta Boshi View Post
Sides are you trying to Validate China illegally occupation of Tibet with random examples . I will answer this question with another What about Aboriginals in Australia ? ...And giving North America is a horrible example as down south you had cleansing taking place at the hands of Conquistadors . Native Americans atleast have some of there culture and language intact . You do realize whole of South America speaks Spanish and Portuguese

I also hope one athlete has the guts to drape himself with a Tibetan flag during the Victory Lap or even Podium that would be so humiliating to commies
Nope, what i was saying it that it doesn't matter how todays People's Republic of China (or Republic of China) was formed, tibet is a part of it.
And calling the tribes native american is a kind of degraddation isn't it?
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Old 2008-03-22, 14:16   Link #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
Then did you support the Olympic games in Tokyo? Okinawa was once a independent country that was forcibly occupied by Japan during the turn of the 20th century?
If people in Okinawa wanted independence and the Japanese authority suppressed their activity by armed force, causing such atrocities, then it would be worth considering to boycott Tokyo Olympic.

Do not use sophistry. Your remark makes no sense.
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Old 2008-03-22, 14:19   Link #52
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As Lakota People dont have independence so its a no no for Tibetans to gain Independence . Its A Okay for Tibetinas to be subjugated oppressed and ruled by a foreign power .

US was built on Blood Sweat and Tears of Blacks .Economy was further paved with oppression of native Americans . No amount of apologizing will ever make up for it .

China's pride in general was at an all time low in 19 century it was exploited by western powers . So China was at the receiving end once now its doing exactly the same . Why do you think the Boxer Revolution hold such high importance in terms of pride and patriotism for Chinese people . Supporting Tibetan occupation turns Boxer revolution into a Joke as Tibetans too are fighting for there national Pride and IDENTITY
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Old 2008-03-22, 15:01   Link #53
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There was only one Western reporter or journalist in Lhasa shortly after the protests began. It was somewhat of a coincidence, as China doesn't like Western reporters seeing their brutality first-hand. The reporter was from The Economist and had to leave the region on the 19th when his week-long reporting permit expired.
http://www.economist.com/world/asia/...ry_id=10875823

And here's some commentary on the Dalai Lama's position:
http://www.economist.com/opinion/dis...ry_id=10880709

Nancy Pelosi (Speaker of the House of Representatives; Democrat) went to India to meat with the Dalai Lama. Most likely nothing will come of that though.
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Old 2008-03-22, 15:16   Link #54
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Originally Posted by Geta Boshi View Post
[B]
US was built on Blood Sweat and Tears of Blacks
african americans
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Old 2008-03-22, 15:16   Link #55
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Umm, there's something I'm not quite following here... Because other nations maintain control of a once-independent people China's rule over Tibet is justified? It's a pretty obvious "tu quoque" argument, and it calls forth issues that aren't to be discussed in this thread.

If the people of Tibet, knowing their history (a period of 40 years of independence in the early 20th century) wish to become an independent country, they've all the right in the world to do so. China's military actions against them are more than condemnable.

I don't know about boycotting the Olympic Games... I think it's more important to realize that they aren't the rainbow-colored fantasy advertisers are trying to sell us, no matter where they're held.
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Last edited by WanderingKnight; 2008-03-22 at 15:31.
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Old 2008-03-22, 15:34   Link #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autumn Demon View Post
There was only one Western reporter or journalist in Lhasa shortly after the protests began. It was somewhat of a coincidence, as China doesn't like Western reporters seeing their brutality first-hand.
I understand why they would dislike reporters looking in on things seen as they do love to exaggerate on such "brutal" events. It is like giving the reader what they like to hear depending on the type of newspaper etc. Next thing you will see is a bolded headling in the sunday newspaper exclaiming: "those sickening acts from the Chinese!"

Really though...with protests like this what do you expect to come from it? There is no way to respond to "riots" with words. Sometimes violence is unavoidable. And how about looking at it from both sides, where are the pictures of a beaten up policeman? I refuse to believe that casulties wern't suffered on both sides.
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Old 2008-03-22, 16:33   Link #57
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Originally Posted by Geta Boshi View Post
Native Americans atleast have some of there culture and language intact . You do realize whole of South America speaks Spanish and Portuguese.
there are still few remaind natives in south america, they still speak their languages and living in a tribe community, except they do not have all the privileges like native americans in Canada (free medicine, free school, free health care...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geta Boshi View Post
China's pride in general was at an all time low in 19 century it was exploited by western powers . So China was at the receiving end once now its doing exactly the same . Why do you think the Boxer Revolution hold such high importance in terms of pride and patriotism for Chinese people . Supporting Tibetan occupation turns Boxer revolution into a Joke as Tibetans too are fighting for there national Pride and IDENTITY
I do agree, because of the western army destroyed the unity we had thats why us Chinese people see it more important than ever.


people are exaggerating the whole thing with the casualties, doesn't matter which country, what would anti-riot police do when violent riots charge into them? They won't just stand there and take it in the balls. according to the BBC site someone linked earlier, "what sparked the riot?"

"Many Tibetans are angry at the increasing numbers of Han Chinese migrants arriving in the region, accusing them of taking the best jobs.

Tibetans feel they have been left behind by the economic boom which coastal provinces have enjoyed, yet they are suffering from China's accelerating inflation. "

so one section shows tibetans feels upset they are left out from the economic boom which coastal province have enjoyed and then when China opens up railroad to bring in tourism into tibet, now tibetans complain about others taking their job?tThat's such a bull reason to start a riot...
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Old 2008-03-22, 16:35   Link #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geta Boshi View Post
US was built on Blood Sweat and Tears of Blacks .Economy was further paved with oppression of native Americans . No amount of apologizing will ever make up for it .
The United States was built on the backs of immigrants. Yes, that includes slavery which was not just limited to blacks from africa. They just happen to be the most spoken about. You are correct in that no amount of apologizing will ever make up for it, but then again, slavery was abolished over 100 years ago. No one alive now took part in what happened then.

Native Americans were forced out entirely onto reservations. The various tribes have treaties with the government that give them some level of sovereignty. The lands they hold now are not exactly part of the US (it's kinda like Puerto Rico or Guam in a sense).

Different races and cultures have had their periods of crap in the US, and sometimes it got bloody. But claiming it was minority or slavery driven isn't telling the whole picture. It's like someone claiming the Civil War was about slavery....it was certainly part of the issue, but not the main reason the country split and fought.

I have no clue how this can be correlated to the current situation with Tibet and PRC. But I'm also not going to try drawing comparisons when my understanding of history in that region is limited at best.
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Old 2008-03-22, 16:54   Link #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
I understand why they would dislike reporters looking in on things seen as they do love to exaggerate on such "brutal" events. It is like giving the reader what they like to hear depending on the type of newspaper etc. Next thing you will see is a bolded headling in the sunday newspaper exclaiming: "those sickening acts from the Chinese!".
If Beijing dislikes the "exaggerating", the protest should be done by opening more accurate information, not by shutting the reporters out. Bad speech must be blamed by another speech, not by forcible action. This is the concept of Freedom of Expression ("I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Hall)

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Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
Really though...with protests like this what do you expect to come from it? There is no way to respond to "riots" with words. Sometimes violence is unavoidable. And how about looking at it from both sides, where are the pictures of a beaten up policeman? I refuse to believe that casulties wern't suffered on both sides.
You upset the order. It is the authority's side that used violence first. On 14th March, 110 Tibetan priests made a march for independence. The authority used military force to stop them. Four armoured cars were dispatched, one of which run over and killed priests. Then Tibetan people got angry and began the riot. Sorry I cannot find English source; Japanese source here.

Last edited by LiberLibri; 2008-03-22 at 17:04.
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Old 2008-03-22, 17:13   Link #60
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The BBC is probably much more reliable than Yomiuri:

Quote:
Dozens of people are feared dead after mass protests against Chinese rule in Tibet. It is the biggest challenge to China's rule in Tibet since 1989.

What sparked the protests?


Buddhist monks marched from monasteries in and around Lhasa on 10 March to mark the 49th anniversary of a Tibetan uprising against Chinese rule.

According to reports, security forces arrested some of the marchers and the following day, more monks marched through the streets to appeal for their colleagues to be freed.

As news of the unrest spread, Tibetan minority populations in other areas in China began to stage demonstrations.

By the end of the week, protests had broken out in a number of foreign countries - particularly in Nepal and India.

There were also confirmed reports of mass rioting on the streets of Lhasa.

At this point, economic and social grievances came to the fore, and members of the general population became involved in the monks' protests.

Many Tibetans are angry at the increasing numbers of Han Chinese migrants arriving in the region, accusing them of taking the best jobs.

Tibetans feel they have been left behind by the economic boom which coastal provinces have enjoyed, yet they are suffering from China's accelerating inflation.

And reports of a mosque being burnt to the ground could also heighten tensions between Tibetans and the Hui Muslim minority population.
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