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View Poll Results: True Tears - Episode 12 Rating
Perfect 10 46 35.11%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 41 31.30%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 16 12.21%
7 out of 10 : Good 12 9.16%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 1.53%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.76%
4 out of 10 : Poor 3 2.29%
3 out of 10 : Bad 2 1.53%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.76%
1 out of 10 : Painful 7 5.34%
Voters: 131. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-03-25, 12:14   Link #201
Reckoner
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darklightz View Post
Shin : I love you too!

Hiromi : Really?

Shin : No, I'm going back to Noe now. kthxbai
I really think you should look at whitemoon's post as he possibly explains Shinchiro's motives when he chased after her on the bike.

The idea that because the characters lack communication, everything becomes more unrealistic is silly. I must have a pretty weird life then because people around me don't speak their mind like so. Like recently I've been having a hard time at a job, then it got to a point of ridiculousness that I brought up troubles to my boss and a whole dramatic meeting took place for like the next 30 minutes. Maybe you people are way more open, but thoughts and feelings are transmitted between humans usually by subtle clues. I don't know, maybe I have a weird life! But I'll leave it as your opinion.
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Old 2008-03-25, 12:31   Link #202
vio5555
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I really think you should look at whitemoon's post as he possibly explains Shinchiro's motives when he chased after her on the bike.

The idea that because the characters lack communication, everything becomes more unrealistic is silly. I must have a pretty weird life then because people around me don't speak their mind like so. Like recently I've been having a hard time at a job, then it got to a point of ridiculousness that I brought up troubles to my boss and a whole dramatic meeting took place for like the next 30 minutes. Maybe you people are way more open, but thoughts and feelings are transmitted between humans usually by subtle clues. I don't know, maybe I have a weird life! But I'll leave it as your opinion.
b0nyb0y deals with this in his post on the main issues that people are having with the "realism" being portrayed. I think his response would be the same as mine, so I'll repost his lines and elaborate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by b0nyb0y View Post
I think the main thing that keeps this series from being 100% realistic is how little characters talk about what they intended to do or how they really feel until the final moment of their corresponding plot arcs. Oftentimes what's said only gave a slight hint (and rather ambiguous at that) of what action the character will take next. Yes, from screenwriting point of view, it makes sense to build suspense and save the revelation for later episodes, but damn, it's so irritating. To me, if the characters have been a little more communicative, and sending less mixed signal in their behaviors, then it wouldn't really stir up so much irritations in audiences as can be seen now in this thread. For example, by the end of this episode, if Shin just want to break up with Noe and go for Hiromi, realistically he should have reassured her before running off to Noe. Likewise, if he chooses to be with Noe, he can make Hiromi knows of his intention by saying just a couple of short sentences before taking off. Doing either of those would take only a few seconds, so he wouldn't really waste any time if he did so. Yet all he did was a little blushing, stayed quiet and said "I need to go now." Yes, from what we've seen so far, we always know who he really loves, so there's no question about that. But still...
I think b0nyb0y's points answer your and Whitemoon's address of the "total lack of communication".

Shin isn't even dropping "subtle hints." Like he said absolutely nothing to Hiromi before running off to find Noe at the end of episode 12. Sure that can easily be chalked up in many ways, but at this point it just looks like the writers sacrificing realism for more drama. I'm not buying that small ambiguous hints are a substitute for subtle hints that imply choices.

You continue to take the extreme view of what we expect. We expect subtle hints, not a broad answering of all the questions. No one is expecting Shin to "speak his mind" to Hiromi before running off to Noe at the end of 12. We want a small degree of answers to Noe and Hiromi at various points, not him keeping everything close to vest for no other reason than to drive up the drama. If he made his choice at the dance then certainly we should be fair in expecting him to drop a hint to Hiromi as he runs to Noe.

Shin should be dropping the subtle hints to let people know what's going on at the end of episode 12..., that's the point we've been trying to make.
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Old 2008-03-25, 12:48   Link #203
pac2is
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LOL are you guys also expecting the same end as School days? -_-

(Damn you Jun, sick bastard O__O What the hell r you thinking? :O )

P.S.: Can i say that word: bastard, here on this forum? Cuz i kinda dunno xD Just to make sure
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Old 2008-03-25, 12:55   Link #204
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vio5555 View Post
b0nyb0y deals with this in his post on the main issues that people are having with the "realism" being portrayed. I think his response would be the same as mine, so I'll repost his lines and elaborate.



I think b0nyb0y's points answer your and Whitemoon's address of the "total lack of communication".

Shin isn't even dropping "subtle hints." Like he said absolutely nothing to Hiromi before running off to find Noe at the end of episode 12. Sure that can easily be chalked up in many ways, but at this point it just looks like the writers sacrificing realism for more drama. I'm not buying that small ambiguous hints are a substitute for subtle hints that imply choices.

You continue to take the extreme view of what we expect. We expect subtle hints, not a broad answering of all the questions. No one is expecting Shin to "speak his mind" to Hiromi before running off to Noe at the end of 12. We want a small degree of answers to Noe and Hiromi at various points, not him keeping everything close to vest for no other reason than to drive up the drama. If he made his choice at the dance then certainly we should be fair in expecting him to drop a hint to Hiromi as he runs to Noe.

Shin should be dropping the subtle hints to let people know what's going on at the end of episode 12..., that's the point we've been trying to make.
Shinchrio dropped one hint in this episode when he told Hiromi that it was going to be crowded and you don't have to force yourself with his faint smile.

He hasn't even had an opportunity to speak to Noe after his closet fiasco, hence why he's chasing after her to sort out his feelings. Ok, perhaps if he was thinking clearly he would've let Hiromi know kind of what's on his mind. But from what I could garner from his mind in this episode, he is starting to get a little warped in his thoughts and doesn't know exactly what he is doing anymore. This was kind of portrayed by the scene of him sitting at the stand with Nobuse where he states "what am I doing?." Still I think Hiromi understood what's going on when he kept telling her in a guilty way, "I have to go now." It's not like she doesn't know, why would she be getting sad and saying "don't leave me" if that was the case? Or do you think she is assuming too much because Shinchiro doesn't let her know in a clearer way? I understand you don't expect him to actually speak his mind to everyone, but give a reasonable statement of what Shinchiro could've said to HIromi in that little two minutes he had when he is trying to chase after Noe...
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Old 2008-03-25, 13:19   Link #205
vio5555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Shinchrio dropped one hint in this episode when he told Hiromi that it was going to be crowded and you don't have to force yourself with his faint smile.

He hasn't even had an opportunity to speak to Noe after his closet fiasco, hence why he's chasing after her to sort out his feelings. Ok, perhaps if he was thinking clearly he would've let Hiromi know kind of what's on his mind. But from what I could garner from his mind in this episode, he is starting to get a little warped in his thoughts and doesn't know exactly what he is doing anymore. This was kind of portrayed by the scene of him sitting at the stand with Nobuse where he states "what am I doing?." Still I think Hiromi understood what's going on when he kept telling her in a guilty way, "I have to go now." It's not like she doesn't know, why would she be getting sad and saying "don't leave me" if that was the case? Or do you think she is assuming too much because Shinchiro doesn't let her know in a clearer way? I understand you don't expect him to actually speak his mind to everyone, but give a reasonable statement of what Shinchiro could've said to HIromi in that little two minutes he had when he is trying to chase after Noe...
Well, I agree with most of what you're saying, but on the last thing; I do think he misses an opportunity to clear things up with a small simple statement.

Right after Hiromi says that she told Noe to leave them alone and that they're together; Shin says to the effect that its okay that Hiromi told that stuff to Noe and then he just says he has to go to the closing celebration.

Right there, if he really had made his decision before that, he could have either said "You shouldn't have told her that" or "That's not how we are" a small statement disagreeing if he had really made a decision that opposes what she said. Instead he just goes along with it and then fakes to go off to celebrate. If he was choosing her then possibly he could have indicated it by not abandoning her or something like "I'll go and talk to Noe, wait for (or "believe in") me" since he'd want to go and make sure Noe can deal with it.

I don't know that scene was just extremely frustrating to me more than any of Shin's actions prior to that because it seemed like he made some kind of decision during the dance, so I thought that he would finally start doing things properly at that point and yet it still wasn't meant to be...

I really think that he missed the last chance to finally be proactive (since he had finally made some kind of decision) and again he has to wait until another drastic Noe action (at the end of 12 just like at 11) to finally go through with it.

Maybe that's my gripe with it and compared with Jun coming clean as well as Hiromi's actions over the past 3 episodes, I have to think Hiromi and Jun are the only ones who have done things properly after facing up to their feelings. Noe's trying as best she can to deal with all of these new emotions to her so I give her far more leeway for not being able to emotionally handle all of this.

Either way, losing his last and perhaps only chance to truly be proactive (in my mind) is a total disappointment to me despite how much I like this series. I've given you three 1-liners that Shin could have used to indicate what his feelings were after seeing Noe in his eyes during the dance and making the "decision", and I think I'm safe in saying that it would reasonable to expect something like this from a character who's struggled to be proactive through his doubt but has reached some position of clarity.

Last edited by vio5555; 2008-03-25 at 13:39.
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Old 2008-03-25, 13:41   Link #206
Reckoner
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All right, as Deathkillz put it "he fcked up", and I'll agree with you. We both probably were watching that scene with different anticipations. You expected Shinchiro to finally step up, I expected him to be his usual self. So I can understand your disappointment with it. The writers were clearly trying to show that he was going to change, but he so far hasn't really done anything too different. But I am expecting him to finally make these changes next episode, if the girls do everything for him then I'll actually be disappointed like you are this episode.
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Old 2008-03-25, 14:41   Link #207
ani_d
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I have too much free time and was rewatching ep 8, then 12. It got me thinking. I think everyone here has agreed that Noe is going to get her tears back next episode, the question is just how? From heartbreak? It seems less likely now. I mean, Noe's already heartbroken, and she's still not crying. She found it actually hard to cry in ep 12. The only time Noe has been shown close to crying was when Shin wrote he 'likes' her on the ground. The Noe ending just keeps getting stronger the more I rewatch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Ok, perhaps if he was thinking clearly he would've let Hiromi know kind of what's on his mind. But from what I could garner from his mind in this episode, he is starting to get a little warped in his thoughts and doesn't know exactly what he is doing anymore. This was kind of portrayed by the scene of him sitting at the stand with Nobuse where he states "what am I doing?."
I just want to say this rings true. I thought the scene with Miyokishi and Shin was pretty random as well, and I don't think the writers will just animate that scene cuz they feel like it. Like you said, I think they just want to emphasize that even Shin himself doesn't know what he's doing anymore. Out of all 11 episodes, this is the only episode where he starts to really break away from his old self--the one who couldn't fly.

@vio5555

Also, while it's true Shin didn't verbally express what's on his mind about Hiromi, his expressions and his eye movements tell us a whole lot. Nonverbal communication is way more expressive than verbal. We've been shown a lot of facial close-up of Shin here, especially when talking to Hiromi. It may be too subtle to notice, but if you're looking for subtle hints, there you go. He's been like that, ever since ep 11, and it just got worse in this episode. I do feel like he's being a little bit of a jerk for lying to Hiromi too, but that simple gesture tells us a lot as well. Hence, this is why I think episode 13 will be interesting. We get to confirm our suspicions lol
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Old 2008-03-25, 15:53   Link #208
jaisrh
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Noe is supposed to get her tears back by taking them from someone dear to her as she herself said in the early episodes, that's supposed to be the mechanism although the exact method in episode 13 may be different. That's what her grandmother told her and that's what Noe believes. The only ones that qualify are Shin and Jun. So Shin will probably cry and Noe will take his tears. Shin could cry because of his feelings for Hiromi and because of all the misunderstandings that created this situation to hurt Noe. Noe said to Hiromi "They're beautiful...your tears". She wants to be able to cry like Hiromi can, in fact she used to cry a lot as Jun said before she took to heart her grandmother's act of "taking her tears away". There are times when Noe has wanted to cry but can't because of her belief that her grandmother took her tears away and she needs to regain her tears by taking them from someone dear to her.

The story is set up so that Shin is the one that Noe is supposed to take the tears from in order to regain her own tears but Jun also qualifies as a person dear to her. It makes it interesting now that Noe knows about Jun's feelings for her and she did express that she did'nt want him to move away. Noe has to reconcile all the new knowledge she did'nt have until recently. As she said to herself this episode at 17:25, she did'nt notice her brother's feelings for her, Hiromi's feelings for Shin, and Shin's true feelings for Hiromi. All those feelings existed before Noe met Shin. I think Noe herself has a decision to make in episode 13 because she said "Shinichiro said that I could fly" in the preview, and she seemed to be considering the feelings of the other three as well as her own in this episode.

We've seen Hiromi, Aiko, and Jun cry. Both Shin and Noe have not cried. Shin's own tears are probably what is needed for Noe to be able to cry again.

Last edited by jaisrh; 2008-03-25 at 16:33.
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Old 2008-03-25, 16:34   Link #209
Theowne
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I have a comment I just thought of regarding the jumping off the tree. In previous episode, Noe has always needed Shin to catch her and asked him so. Maybe there's some significance in her climbing up and trying to jump off herself without him to catch her (if it was on purpose). If my interpretation is true it certainly shows a clear difference in Noe's character. She believes Hiromi is the one in Shin's heart and so she wants to go out of her way to try and forget about him or remove her attachment to him in the hope that it will be better for Shin.

Something else I noticed that was probably intentional from the writers is that Hiromi, after noticing Noe, is basically staring/glaring at her while Shin's own dance finishes without her noticing. There could be significance in the meaning behind this if you approach it from a certain perspective. The last thing is that I can see a contradiction between Hiromi's words about "being honest/seeing eye to eye" versus Shin's lie to her after the dance, as well as the misleading comments when he was getting dressed. If I had to make a bet I'd still wager on the Hiromi ending, but I can't see how the writers would include these things without relevance.
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Last edited by Theowne; 2008-03-25 at 16:46.
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Old 2008-03-25, 16:59   Link #210
vio5555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaisrh View Post
Did anyone else notice that at 4:30 of this episode, Shin said to himself "What was she saying? I was the one who superimposed Jibeta with myself. I was the one who did'nt realize Jibeta's strength".

Shin basically admitted that he represented himself as Jibeta at some point. I know there was a debate in episode 11 about who Jibeta was supposed to represent but here Shin is telling us that he "superimposed Jibeta" with himself. The writers might have given an element of foreshadowing by having Noe fall off the tree to parallel Jibeta's fall in episode 11, but at the time Shin was thinking of himself as Jibeta and not Noe because he "superimposed Jibeta" with himself.

With that being said, while I think the interpretations for Raigomaru and Jibeta in episodes 9-11 were valid for those episodes, episode 12 brought another shift in his thinking as he watched and listened to Noe at the beginning of the episode. Since she jumped off the tree at the end of the episode and the preview has Noe saying "Shinichiro said that I can fly", Shin likely has given up on the association of Jibeta and himself, and instead probably associates Jibeta with Noe now.

So now Shin is stuck with Raigomaru as representing him wanting to fly. Without using Jibeta as a separate representation of his feelings, I think it has evolved to the point where Raigomaru can represent him flying to either Hiromi or Noe because he has reconciled his separate feelings in Raigomaru and Jibeta into just Raigomaru.
I wanted to get to this issue next, since it does seem like the chickens are coming home to roost (no pun intended ) with respect to the Raigomaru/Jibeta impressions that we began to establish in the last episode discussion.

As with everything else you point out and as ani_d pointed out, we're going to find out where all of this has led Shin in episode 13 and perhaps find out the final interpretations of the events and symbols employed earlier.

I don't really have much to add to your interpretation since you covered all of the points I'd imagine we got out of episode 12. There isn't too much to question since now that the Raigomaru/Jibeta issue has resolved, it's just a matter of who he'll fly for...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaisrh View Post
We've seen Hiromi, Aiko, and Jun cry. Both Shin and Noe have not cried. Shin's own tears are probably what is needed for Noe to be able to cry again.
Yes, we've only seen "fake tears" from Shin (I think?). Shin and Noe's "true tears" are going to take center stage in episode 13.
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Old 2008-03-25, 17:10   Link #211
jaisrh
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Originally Posted by vio5555 View Post
Yes, we've only seen "fake tears" from Shin (I think?). Shin and Noe's "true tears" are going to take center stage in episode 13.
Well, Shin had those worthless gutter tears as Noe put them in episode 4 when he was moping, thinking that Hiromi liked Jun. Shin did'nt really cry, he just offered to cry for Noe but she rejected them as worthless. Basically, at that time he was'nt ready to fly because he lacked sense of purpose and direction. Since he's going to be ready to fly in episode 13, his tears will now have value for Noe. The tears of someone ready to fly, maybe away from her whether it's his choice or because she sends him off. I always thought they had a sort of symbiotic relationship where she helps Shin in getting to where he wants to be and she regains her tears in the process, that was set up with the first two picture book scenes and the events since then support that.
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Old 2008-03-25, 17:34   Link #212
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Originally Posted by Theowne View Post
Maybe there's some significance in her climbing up and trying to jump off herself without him to catch her (if it was on purpose).
The obvious significance is that it is EXACTLY what happened in his storybook. Jibeta trying to fly (and failing) when Raigomaru isn't looking. This does lead to the possibility of a tragic ending in that he killed off Jibeta and had Raigomaru grieving. Also, well Noe may never admit it, I kind of viewed it as a suicide attempt given her broken mental state and the fact she climbed up so high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theowne View Post
Something else I noticed that was probably intentional from the writers is that Hiromi, after noticing Noe, is basically staring/glaring at her while Shin's own dance finishes without her noticing. There could be significance in the meaning behind this if you approach it from a certain perspective. The last thing is that I can see a contradiction between Hiromi's words about "being honest/seeing eye to eye" versus Shin's lie to her after the dance, as well as the misleading comments when he was getting dressed. If I had to make a bet I'd still wager on the Hiromi ending, but I can't see how the writers would include these things without relevance.
Yeah, it's funny how Hiromi is mirroring Shin's mom's issue. Which does leave the possibility of a Hiromi ending since Shin's mom did get Shin's dad. Just wish we knew WHY she hated Hiromi's mom so much.

Anyways, I'm hoping for a Noe ending.
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Old 2008-03-25, 17:48   Link #213
xi11
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i just wanted to state that I ,again, really enjoyed the episode.

I am a Noe-fan through and through.

What I liked about the episode is when Akio sees Noe and Hiromi like fight over Shin and get hinted that she stills has feelings for Shin.

I got a basic question (without meaning any offense to the forum members):

Why do you keep saying "I am so disappoint of this", "that should have been more like that... " Why cant (at least some people) never accept the anime as it is? It is great that people are so moved by the anime that they would have wished for their fav character to act different, but why do you set yourself in a position where you basically say: "Writers so lame because...."

Maybe you got your own image of True Tears on how its supposed to be (and your perfectly well entitled to it) but why do you have to post that in the forum of things you really like (and I guess that would be anime) and still say "that is soo lame"

Edit Nr. 7 (or so)

I really have a hard time not being misunderstood. Last thing I want to add: My perception of thread like this is, that it is supposed to by a place where fans of the respective anime can share their experience with others. What they felt while watching, what they like most, what made them sad, who they root for, etc.

that's that, sorry for being so off-topic.

Second thing is, but that is really a personal one, that I dont like analysing a episode in every detail. What is most important to me when watching anime, is that I have a good time and feel that the world isnt that bad as it looks to me when I for once lift my head. Isnt it that this feeling gets lost if you are concentrating on details so much? It is my perception that every work of fiction is to be enjoyed as a whole, and not in detail.

thank you for your time

please dont feel offended in any way, that is a anime forum where anyone can post their opinion after all. But I hope so can I.
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Old 2008-03-25, 18:08   Link #214
vio5555
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Originally Posted by xi11 View Post
Why do you keep saying "I am so disappoint of this", "that should have been more like that... " Why cant (at least some people) never accept the anime as it is? It is great that people are so moved by the anime that they would have wished for their fav character to act different, but why do you set yourself in a position where you basically say: "Writers so lame because...."

Maybe you got your own image of True Tears on how its supposed to be (and your perfectly well entitled to it) but why do you have to post that in the forum of things you really like (and I guess that would be anime) and still say "that is soo lame"
Well, I think with True Tears; the anime itself has sort of demanded a more critical approach to viewing it in that it's set itself up as a more emotional drama that's trying to be something along the lines of an acclaimed drama.

As viewers I think we acknowledge the writers' intent and so for True Tears it's more comparable to reading a novel not just for enjoyment but also critically as opposed to purely for enjoyment without a critical eye, simply because I think the writers have set the bar higher in terms of expectations.

In that vein I think we do have to say where the writers might have gone astray (in our opinions) and where we found them to be directly on point.

Some of the biggest issues that have arisen are with respect to the handling of Shin's mom. I think even the biggest "fan" of True Tears can admit that Shin's mom wasn't the most solid of foundations upon which to build a relationship for Shin and Hiromi and the total lack of explanation of her behaviors is perhaps the largest flaw. Exposing those kinds of flaws is a part of our job as viewers of this kind of drama, while simultaneously acknowledging that the writers have created a very realistically paced and heartfelt drama with compelling characters.

I think the second aspect is that we can point out weaknesses as well such as Aiko's handling which in my personal opinion would have been superior if she had stayed in the role of the "elder statesman" to elucidate upon Hiromi's (and Noe's) actions to Shin and the audience.

As an example of my own case of viewing an anime "just as it is", I view Spice and Wolf with a far less critical eye than I do True Tears simply because I think S&W is just trying to tell a nice story but not really providing us with any groundbreaking drama. That's the kind of anime that I think the viewer just takes at face value for enjoyment, since it's not really trying to be a masterpiece of drama like True Tears.

One final thing, I also rate the episodes of True Tears in a more critical sense, so the benchmark is different for me than it is for other animes. For Spice and Wolf I've given plenty of episodes "Perfect 10"s simply because I think they've done what they've set out to do, which is entertain me and not really slow down or lose my interest as a viewer. For True Tears my ratings are based on how each episode advances the drama as well as answers questions from before and fits into the context of the whole story, so although my ratings are lower on average, it's no surprise that I view True Tears as the vastly superior anime (even though I acknowledge its flaws where I don't really see many in one like Spice and Wolf).

Last edited by vio5555; 2008-03-25 at 18:20.
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Old 2008-03-25, 18:41   Link #215
Reckoner
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Vio5555 gave a good response, but I'll add my own.

Usually people who keep up and watch show "x" are more or less interested in show "x." Especially those of us who are on these boards and are replying to threads like so. In some cases people just keep up with a show in hopes of seeing something worthwhile in hopes of finding something very enjoyable. In both cases, when a show starts to throw in things that they didn't like to see, or if the show is heading in a direction that becomes unbearable for them, they are going to complain about it.

They have spent "y" time on show "x" and would like to see a nice conclusion to it to feel satisfied that they truly used their time to best of experience as possible. If not it is the same as watching like 3/5 of a movie and never seeing the rest.
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Old 2008-03-25, 19:55   Link #216
golthin
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I really can't wait for Saturday! I am not predicting anything. I am going th cowardly way with 50/50 for each girl. I am just not sure because they gave us episode 10 and I had Hiromi at 99% victory, then they gave us episode 12. I would have giving noe a 90% against 10% for hiromi if Shin had not hugged her and chased after in episode 9 and 10 respectively. So those two events help keep hiromi still at a respectable 50% chance.
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Old 2008-03-25, 20:02   Link #217
AznSoulBoy
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Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
^
In regards to the last quoted quote... I personally don't care how bad the couple are together, as long as they're childhood friends I will most probably will ship them together. I just can't help it as it's my absolute moe element, and me trying to explain that would be like me trying to explain why I like RPGs the best. That is, I would ship NaruXKeitaro (early divorce if I've ever seen one ) over any other couple other than MutsuhimeXKeitaro, just on the strength of the two being friends in childhood. Thankfully, that's the only example I can think of looking down my Big List of Shows Where Osana-Najimi Appeared (TM), as usually is the case the vast majority of the time, the childhood friend IS the one most suited for the protagonist IMO.

Also, shipping is not the act of liking a character the best, but the act of rooting (or just wanting to happen) for a certain couple to be together. For example, 'I ship KotomiXTomoya in Clannad' makes sense. 'I ship Kotomi in Clannad' does not. While at least one (if not both) of the characters are usually the favourites of a person and thus is the most common reason why a particular person ships they way they do, there are times when that isn't the case. An example would be me, as I like Youhei and Kyou the best in Clannad, but my only ship there is KotomiXTomoya. So yeah, it doesn't necessarily mean that if you ship a certain way, that you actually like the characters in question the best (or even if at all).

In regards to Shinichiro's indecisiveness, I neither like it nor dislike it, nor do I think it should be detrimental to the judgement of a character if he/she ever was one. I'm not even frustrated by it, nor do I think I ever was in any show. It's a fact of most anime romances, and the exceptions are rare to be seen. As such, I've learned to live with it since I would be very frequently dealing with it. My only beef with it (as small as it is) is that it's overused and as such leads to many unoriginal characters, but if originality was so commonplace, nothing would be original at all lol. XD



Don't let me get started again.

Actually, maybe I will, since this will be short. First off, definition of harem greatly varies from person to person (if the Clannad debate is of any indication), so let's take a third party database that actually lists harem as a genre in order to avoid arguements on that end. First one that comes to mind is anidb.net, but I'm willing to use another database as I don't think the results will change.
Spoiler for big big spoilers for the shows listed:

9/12 (15/22 if you use the general list), or 75% (68%), which is close to the total average of 70% from 2000-2007 and as such within statistical error. So yeah, harem shows are nothing special when it comes to usual childhood friends win rate... it's just that particular show with THAT yandere has forever tainted the archetype with the illusion that they usually lose, as their few losses are so much more spectacular than the flashiness of their wins combined in any genre.

Not that anything of the above has to do with the win chance of Hiromi right now...
Haha, you're right. I'm sorry about that.

anyway, as reckoner said it's right. It's unbearable to watch some animes that we like. Like...Naruto . hahaha.

btw, guys. I hope this is not true but if it is. I would be damn mad. I saw that in RC, so I want to share it for u guys.
"virox at 7:30 pm on March 25th, 2008
I’ve heard that there will be a second season…
WHY CAN’T THEY JUST LET IT BE WITH ONE GREAT SEASON!?
I can’t stand this shit, why do they always have to pull the last bit of money out of a grainfull anime?? I think that the second season will be a less in quality.

Source: Moetaku Fansubs, looks like they get this information from bandai…
“there will be a second season and Haruhi will make a cameo appearence”
“it’s information given to us by Bandai!”"
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Old 2008-03-25, 20:10   Link #218
Westlo
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Join Date: May 2007
Why stop at Haruhi, that rumor should've included Lelouch, Light and Son Goku! Also golthin going with a cowardly 50/50 prediction means your prediction streak ends imo
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Old 2008-03-25, 21:01   Link #219
relentlessflame
 
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by AznSoulBoy View Post
btw, guys. I hope this is not true but if it is. I would be damn mad. I saw that in RC, so I want to share it for u guys.
"virox at 7:30 pm on March 25th, 2008
I’ve heard that there will be a second season…
WHY CAN’T THEY JUST LET IT BE WITH ONE GREAT SEASON!?
I can’t stand this shit, why do they always have to pull the last bit of money out of a grainfull anime?? I think that the second season will be a less in quality.

Source: Moetaku Fansubs, looks like they get this information from bandai…
“there will be a second season and Haruhi will make a cameo appearence”
“it’s information given to us by Bandai!”"
That is officially the worst lie ever. Bandai Visual Japan has nothing to do with Haruhi. Whoever made up this "rumour" is ignorant enough to confuse Bandai Entertainment USA with Bandai Visual Japan. Plain stupid. Don't believe everything you read.
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Old 2008-03-25, 21:35   Link #220
AznSoulBoy
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
That is officially the worst lie ever. Bandai Visual Japan has nothing to do with Haruhi. Whoever made up this "rumour" is ignorant enough to confuse Bandai Entertainment USA with Bandai Visual Japan. Plain stupid. Don't believe everything you read.
That's what I thought. I wasn't sure until someone said it and fortunately relentlessflame replied. Haha, well it relieves me now. I wasn't sure so I decided to check like every sites and they were no such a thing. Anyway, it wouldn't make sense. Sorry about that stupid "rumour" whoever said it.
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