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Old 2008-03-26, 02:07   Link #22581
arkhangelsk
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Too busy for a full reply, so I'll have to pick. I'll do the command stuff first, then the rest later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Hayate wasn't exactly rushing off to combat either I'd say it's pretty fucking clear that the TSAB considers the job of a commander to be to command not to run out and bust heads. Which is how it SHOULD be, but it makes placing high level mages in thsoe billets stupid to say the least.
I'll disagree here. The record's almost even - Ep5, 17 (the last much criticized) vs Ep 11-12 and Ep21-26. Ep7 is a wierd case where she forward deployed but neither commanded or fought. One should not underestimate the importance of the commander leading from the front, even in a world of electronic gadgetry.

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Only if we asume that the TSAB promotion system must work like a modern miltary one hardly a given. It could be as simple as creating a another pipeline for mages that gives them increasing pay and benifts without putting them in postions where there skills are utterly wasted.
The warrant officer shunt? In the long run, it will create a disenfranchised class. Venting the elite mages into this path means they'll never advance to command (because according to you that's a waste of talent), which in turn means they'll never make general / admiral. When they realize that they don't get any representation up top even while being the TSAB's most important personnel ... how many will still be staying, even if you bribe them with cash?

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Diffrecnes in skills and talents are a fact of life and the fact that most orgnazation can even vaugely treat people "fairly" is divreived from the fact that most people are frankly pretty smlair in cacpablites to start with.

That said when diffrecnes due exist they must to be considered. You might be able to hire a mentally ill or retarded person to work the counter at a fast food place, but he couldn't be the manager for instacne. Maybe you could work as a assitent in a laboratoy, but you'll never run it if you don't have a degree. At the same time no on in there right mind would hire a guy with a BA in bussiness and 10 years experience and have him wait tables!
He will, however, be the restaurant manager. He doesn't go out for day to day work - it is not necessary and we have to let the young waiters learn from their goofs. But if a tough customer comes in, then the manager is the one who goes out and placates him. Now, imagine if he doesn't have what it takes to do that, perhaps because he has not waited tables a single day in his life.

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Are they really? How many civilian jobs can you think of where someone that can shot fireballs would be advantgous? Seriously IMO in the case of allot of mages the TSAB is one of the few places there skills can really get them ahead about the only other area is maybe private secuitry, but I'm sure there are WAY more applicants then jobs in that area
I don't know why you assume that a mage is some kind magical equivalent to an all-brawn and no-brain musclehead. Proper control of magic requires the use of mathematical equations and knowledge of physical laws, all in mental real time, as described in the manga. Thus, he's likely to be of higher than average intelligence.

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It really is since they'll [I]still do more good giving 50% on the field then 100% behind a desk. And if it's just about money or the like then pay them more is that so complex? Prestige they already have anyway everyone in the TSAB clearly gives high level mages respect beyond what there rank would dictate.
Then, according to what you advocate, they place them under couch potato staff commanders that had not used a single spell or fought a single mage in their lives.

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None of that experience is really useful in running a ship a army General couldn't just transfer over and run a carrier battle group. Hell they wouldn't even have a clue about the culture since this varies greatly between services.
False analogy. An Army General will have had no experience with any facet of his new job (excepting personnel management). A better analogy will be a naval aviator commanding a carrier or CVBG - which is IIRC the law in the US Navy, with the onboard mage unit substituting for the airwing. The Royal Navy doesn't force carrier captains to be aviators, but aviators can command destroyers and frigates. Both seem to be pretty happy, despite the new captains being sorely limited when it comes to seafaring experience.

Since a mage has many similarities to an aviator (higher than average intelligence, character from being sole master of an expensive and powerful piece of machinery ... etc), it stands to reason that if carrier aviators can make at least adequate captains, so can shipborne mages.

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Again a knowledge that's useless to running a ship.
But very useful to running the mage unit, which is the most often used combat force on the ship. Raw intelligence will also help him gain the most vital facets of captaincy faster.

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About the only real upside that said you also run across plenty of guys that get power and then act like douches with it so this is hardly a given.
I don't think anyone advocated giving a ship (or any command position) to someone like this, regardless of his lofty mage rank.

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Debatable even if they respect what they've done in other areas trusting someone with little practical experience to run a warship effectively and fairly is something else all together. It goes back the general example if he's a decorated war hero the crew might respect him as a person, but that won't automatically transfer to respecting his orders or authority if he has no experience in this area and it will result in much harsher and quicker backlash if he makes any mistakes.
Now, why do you only think about the ship, and not the mages that are its primary combat force? Would the mages listen to a couch potato Captain, even if he's the best shiphandler in the Fleet?

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This horseshit a captains specialization is being a generalist with a huge body of knowledge about the working of a naval vessel gained over decades of experience aboard them. Something no ammount of flying around blasting bad guys will provide a mage. Again by this moronic logic we could pluck a decorated Infnatry Colonel out Iraq give him command of a Guided Missile Destoryer and it would work great.
See above. In addition, it does not take that long to produce a Captain - back in the day of the diesel subs, many Captains even in peacetime were b/w 25-30. The Americans feel that these "decades of experience" can be compromised so much they keep sending off their officers to shore tours, joint staff tours ... etc.

In the end, what's important is what the Commander is supposed to be. You think his main specialty should be shiphandling. But a TSAB Vessel Commander's primary force is his mages. His ship is a battle-taxi, and may even be unarmed. Even if it is armed, the usage of armament already signifies the failure of the mission, with the only decision left being how big a failure it is.

Given this, where a Captain's primary orientation should be, and what he should hand down to the technical crew, is clear. While we've only seen two TSAB ships, both ships seem to support my position that the Captains should be good mages. Of course, the TSAB is hardly a tactical authority, but this time, IMO they do have the blessing of the very well regarded USN and RN.

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You can also flip all this nonsense on it's head with the simple question of what is this ludicrously preferential treatment of high level mages telling the NORMAL troops (that still make up the vast majority of the force)? Work hard, stay on the straight and narrow, and someday you can be passed over a position you richly deserve so we can place a powerful novice in your place?:rolleyes
For one thing, there's the prestige of the mages, which we agree on. Nobody seriously objects to the idea that combat leaders be promoted a little faster than say a supply officer.

For another thing, does the "normal troop" truly "deserve" the position more than the powerful novice (relatively speaking)?

Sure, the normal trooper has more time in service. But this pretty much ends his short list of advantages. The novice not only has more magic power than him, but is probably also more highly intelligent, so his base qualities are already better.

Even in experience and accomplishments, unless you push novice to extremes, the novice is unlikely to lose. Being sent all over the TSAB as a reinforcement, he cuts more Lost Logia and criminals in a week than Normal Trooper does a year. So who's really better qualified as a veteran and a leader?

Last edited by arkhangelsk; 2008-03-26 at 02:53. Reason: Finished WO shunt
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Old 2008-03-26, 02:55   Link #22582
Kha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagerou View Post
A preview of Scene 3. Posted because of implications...

Spoiler for Yuunoko in the making?:


Now that is just made of WIN and AWESOME! Dere-Keroko FTW, but Yuuno's the key in this piece.

And I feel sorry for Jun for being missing in action till now...

Eto... I wanted to do that for UBW KhaxKeroko, since Keroko loves tech and all, Kha's mode of attack would be through there since he has access to an armory of Belka-pattern Bolter devices...
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Last edited by Kha; 2008-03-26 at 03:23.
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Old 2008-03-26, 04:03   Link #22583
Wild Goose
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Posting on the run, cannot respond in full, will respond fully tomorrow if possible, posting using unfamillair comp and keyboard, laptop gone and probably will never see it again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
False analogy. An Army General will have had no experience with any facet of his new job (excepting personnel management). A better analogy will be a naval aviator commanding a carrier or CVBG - which is IIRC the law in the US Navy, with the onboard mage unit substituting for the airwing. The Royal Navy doesn't force carrier captains to be aviators, but aviators can command destroyers and frigates. Both seem to be pretty happy, despite the new captains being sorely limited when it comes to seafaring experience.
The point, however, is that in both instances the aviators are already members of the Navy. They know the Navy's institutional culture. They understand its zeitgeist. They won't be banging their heads on the differing zeitgeists.

(Tangent: Funny, you seem to have stopped mentioning Hayate bringing Earth zietgeist to teh TSAB. Any raeson why?)

Quote:
Since a mage has many similarities to an aviator (higher than average intelligence, character from being sole master of an expensive and powerful piece of machinery ... etc), it stands to reason that if carrier aviators can make at least adequate captains, so can shipborne mages.
To be fair, the requirement that carrier captains be aviators was really put into place due to politics. The US navy's aviation community was worried about being shafted.

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But very useful to running the mage unit, which is the most often used combat force on the ship. Raw intelligence will also help him gain the most vital facets of captaincy faster.

Quote:
Now, why do you only think about the ship, and not the mages that are its primary combat force? Would the mages listen to a couch potato Captain, even if he's the best shiphandler in the Fleet?
They wouldn't like it, but they'd listen to him. It's called Chain of Command. So long as that commander is in the chain of command of the mages, they HAVE to listen to hi, zeitgeist notwithstanding. It's the same with a sub delivering SEALs to an AO; the SEALs may want the sub skipper to deploy them at one point, but it's his sub and he has the authority and rank to say "No, I will not deploy here, find somewhere else."

Besides, you're assuming that your couch potato Captain isn't willing to listen and take into consideration the needs of the mages, which does not jive with an example of, oh, say, General Tommy Franks, CINC CENTCOM, an artilleryman, ordering infantry and armor into Iraq, or special forces into Afghanistan. Franz was an artilleryman by trade and yet he understood the differing approaches needed for both theaters. Likewise General Anthony Zinni, his predecessor, or Army Chief of Staff Eric Shinseki who was an infantryman by trade and training... and yet commanded the 1st Cavalry Division.

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See above. In addition, it does not take that long to produce a Captain - back in the day of the diesel subs, many Captains even in peacetime were b/w 25-30. The Americans feel that these "decades of experience" can be compromised so much they keep sending off their officers to shore tours, joint staff tours ... etc.
Back in the day of diesel subs was in the 30s, not now. Most sub captains today will be late 30s-mid-40s. Most captains today are about that level as well. Also, remember, the typical diesel sub skipper of the 1930s was either a Lieutenant or a Lieutenant Commander, who would typically be around that age of 25-30.

On shore tours: To take my RN Captain friend as an example, he started out as a communications officer, and when he finally got command, it was in charge of an ASW frigate - after a period of 20-odd years. This was in between shore tours (in fact he retired from a shore tour at a NATO billet).

The shore tours that the US subjects its officers to are intended to make them well-rounded in various aspects of the military life, such as paperwork, social skills - joint service billets, in particular, are intended to function as places where officers from the different services meet and share ideas and get a feel for how the other side lives. These shore tours are typically up to a year, no more, and they return to sea.

Quote:
In the end, what's important is what the Commander is supposed to be. You think his main specialty should be shiphandling. But a TSAB Vessel Commander's primary force is his mages. His ship is a battle-taxi, and may even be unarmed. Even if it is armed, the usage of armament already signifies the failure of the mission, with the only decision left being how big a failure it is.

Given this, where a Captain's primary orientation should be, and what he should hand down to the technical crew, is clear. While we've only seen two TSAB ships, both ships seem to support my position that the Captains should be good mages. Of course, the TSAB is hardly a tactical authority, but this time, IMO they do have the blessing of the very well regarded USN and RN.
Just something i want to point out regarding ark's analogy of naval aviators: a carrier captain, even if he keeps up his flight certification, WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO DEPLOY IN COMBAT.

Why?

Because he's no longer a naval aviator. He may wear a pilot's wings, but his job is to manage and fight his carrier - that means evasive action, battlefield management, optimum positioning of the ship for flight ops, making sure that everything's running smoothly. When the shit hits the fan, that carrier Captain is more needed to run his ship than as another pilot.

In fact, it's not his job to manage the air wing at all, just to run the ship. Running the air wing is the Commander Air Group. It is the CAG who does the management of the fighters, tankers, and such. Thus in this instance we can have a captain who only concerns himself with the ship, while the senior mage onboard, filling the CAG role, organises things. The captain may order the air wing into battle, but it is the CAG who commands the mages in combat.
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Old 2008-03-26, 05:19   Link #22584
Liingo
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Going to get to the longer posts a bit later.. Busy busy busy

Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
To be fair to Triad, without them we won't be discussing this. Without Triad, we probably won't even have watched MGLN. For general purposes they are fine, it is just that you don't want to use them if you start getting into anything involving semantics, where the meaning of each word makes a difference.
Yeah, that was a bit harsh... Comment edited.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erio View Post
Well, that was a nice 2-week break.

Knowing myself, I usually get burned out after doing anything for too long. Be it playing a game, reading, or even watching anime. So I usually have to change hobbies every once in a while. Lately, I've been doing a lot of gaming - I dont think I've watched any anime after rewatching Gurren Lagann with a few friends a few weeks ago.

Maybe I was getting burned out of the OC too... losing interest in discussing stuff over the internet was perhaps the leading factor, since at the same time I lost interest in reading what was being said... but the fact that I have not stopped dreaming about new additions to this world, and more importantly, the fact that I'm here again proves that I am still not burned out. Perhaps I just needed a small break.

Anyway, that was just a bit about the reason why I've been very inactive lately, not to mention that I went to the beach again for easter weekend.

So, what's new people?
Nothing much from me.. Good to see you're still alive and kicking
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
....
*cough* Many things happened. Alpha continued trudging on, Ghaz started his own continuation of StrikerS, Kha actually dropped crack!
He dropped crack momentarily... it's still alive and well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by humbug23 View Post
Regarding that Enforcer thing, I had always been inclined to believe that it's more of a 'solo officer in the field sent to take care of things within a defined region for a particular incident.' He would have powers that allow him to not be required to report up the chain of command, and execute acts by his own judgment, both, of course, up to a certain reasonable extent. In a way, I can call it a one-man Rapid Deployment Force, so that would minimise time wastage in handling issues. And as is the nature of such forces, there is the possibility that he might not be able to handle it alone, but at least he can stave off some of the urgency before all the red tape which binds proper mobilisation can be cut.
I could live with this description.. As long as they're allowed to have additional support staff of their own (much like TK said below). As this will explain the extra OC's in the pipeline.. (although some of them can be scrapped if need be since they haven't been introduced properly). A little of bit of tweaking and things can go ahead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuyu no Sora View Post
Basically, Enforcers are officers that have high skill and abilities to operate solo as a one-man force which can be called from all three corps?

'Cause if that's the case you just handed me a big problem concerning my character
You and me both..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghazghkull View Post
Thanks for the look over :3 I didn't proofread it, so I'm not surprised that there were glaring errors, although...I'll fix up on the comment about Tiana's CC-skills later :3 I haven't seen StrikerS for a while, so I might be utterly wrong with that comment :3
Well I haven't touched Strikers since it's finished but you have to remember that Teana took on 3 Numbers by herself and won.. with a injury I might add

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Anyway to avoid a bunch of quotes about the Enforcer issue my thoughts are as follows.

First off these guy aren’t really doing things you normally associate with just a 2IC or something Fate was running around chasing criminals and appeared mainly to be doing high profile investigative work; often alone. This makes little sense if an “enforcer” is just some kind of glorified second in command. Translation goof or not IMO the show itself still supports Fate belonging to some sort of group that’s at least somewhat outside the normal TSAB military Triad.

Further still if that’s the case, and it is IMO, then these guys are still going to have to be organized and controlled which implies a controlling agency and thus a culture of some sort. Besides as I recall some sort of “Intelligence Branch” is canon and they aren’t seen on the Triad at all. In any case too many people in WAY to many fics and characters have referenced “Enforcers” to retcon it IMO (never mind that the “real” translation sucks).

While I myself might incorporate some of this “new” information I’m not going to bust my ass to adhere to a tiny aspect of canon bureaucracy in a story that’s already non-canon and mildly AU. Like Humbug for me Enforcers are “solo” operators, but only in the same sense as there be only being one “Sheriff” in a county. An Enforcer is appointed and is the only one to hold that title in a group, but he can have a staff (possibly a rather large one) that aids him. (Fate only seemed to have one glorified secretary, but Fate was also freakishly strong most probably have at least a small team to aid them). As Humbug said they do allot of stuff, but since there ability to cut red tape and deploy quickly is most important in combat and law enforcement tasks most of them tend to be focused on that.
Can't say I'll be too disapointed if this definition goes through.
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Old 2008-03-26, 05:40   Link #22585
LoweGear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post

STARS-01
Genderbent of Nanoha



White Devil Never Looked This Cool.

Spoiler for Captain Nanoha Takamachi:
...
One can argue that Nanoha was originally a male in a female body... and in this case, it seems genderbending proved that right. No matter which gender, Nanoha manages to remain mostly the same!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagerou View Post
A preview of Scene 3. Posted because of implications...

Spoiler for Yuunoko in the making?:


Yuuno pawns Keroko's heart for 500 gold
Yuuno is PIMPING


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Old 2008-03-26, 06:49   Link #22586
USB500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
STARS-01
Genderbent of Nanoha



White Devil Never Looked This Cool.

Spoiler for Captain Nanoha Takamachi:
...


Male or not, Nanoha is still and always is the White Demon. Also...

[vader]
The boyband is strong within this one.
[/vader]

*runs*

==============

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagerou View Post
A preview of Scene 3. Posted because of implications...

Spoiler for Yuunoko in the making?:


Yuuno finally shows the world he's still DA' MAN!!!!
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Old 2008-03-26, 07:44   Link #22587
arkhangelsk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Posting on the run, cannot respond in full, will respond fully tomorrow if possible, posting using unfamillair comp and keyboard, laptop gone and probably will never see it again.
My sympathies. Had that happen to me once (the laptop gone - in the confines of the university's computer room).

Quote:
The point, however, is that in both instances the aviators are already members of the Navy. They know the Navy's institutional culture. They understand its zeitgeist. They won't be banging their heads on the differing zeitgeists.
Agreed. But why would the shipboard mages not share the "Sailing Force" zeitgeist?

Quote:
(Tangent: Funny, you seem to have stopped mentioning Hayate bringing Earth zietgeist to teh TSAB. Any raeson why?)
Umm, that's relevant to our current discussion? Don't think I've given up that position, if that's what you are asking.

Quote:
To be fair, the requirement that carrier captains be aviators was really put into place due to politics. The US navy's aviation community was worried about being shafted.
So it is. Without that, conservatism among the "brown shoes" (or is it "black" for surface?) may cause the idea to never see the light of day.

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They wouldn't like it, but they'd listen to him. It's called Chain of Command. So long as that commander is in the chain of command of the mages, they HAVE to listen to hi, zeitgeist notwithstanding. It's the same with a sub delivering SEALs to an AO; the SEALs may want the sub skipper to deploy them at one point, but it's his sub and he has the authority and rank to say "No, I will not deploy here, find somewhere else."
Is this legalistic take on the problem a bit of an attempt to avoid the essence of the issue? Also, I'll suppose that the SEALs, having worked with the subs for so long, already have some kind of mutual respect to back up the legal stuff.

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Besides, you're assuming that your couch potato Captain isn't willing to listen and take into consideration the needs of the mages, which does not jive with an example of, oh, say, General Tommy Franks, CINC CENTCOM, an artilleryman, ordering infantry and armor into Iraq, or special forces into Afghanistan.
Oh, wow. Franks manages to do what another Franks (Fred) did in 1991. For Afghanistan, after the Soviet 40th Army went into that h*llhole for ten years with both types, he makes a broad decision based on what they discovered the hard way.

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Franz was an artilleryman by trade and yet he understood the differing approaches needed for both theaters. Likewise General Anthony Zinni, his predecessor, or Army Chief of Staff Eric Shinseki who was an infantryman by trade and training... and yet commanded the 1st Cavalry Division.
Umm, am I supposed to be impressed by an infantry commander commanding a division with 6 armored to 4 mech. inf battalions versus one with 5 of each?

In any case, artillery, infantry and cavalry are still part of the three "combat branches" of the US Army. Thanks to the combined arms dialectic, they should have very similar zeitgeists and worldview.

An example where it doesn't go so well is when Admiral Woodward, a submariner, took command of the Falklands liberation fleet. Because he doesn't know much about aviation, he basically gave it up to Hermes to control. While the overall results were satisfactory (they won, after all), it might have gone better.

At that time, the Invincible people were making their Harrier's avionics sing, while the Hermes people were not. But Hermes was flag, and Woodward had allowed Hermes ops staff to control the air battle, so the plans and instructions were written assuming the avionics on all the planes don't work reliably, and all of them were given the Authority Stamp of the admiral.

Had Woodward been an aviator, he would probably have handled the air battle more personally and might have had a more balanced assessment of the avionics than Hermes staff (which understandably favored their own aircrew's version), thus leading to different decisions. And he'll have retained control. Instead, he lost it. One of the more practical effects, was the loss of Sheffield. Apparently, Hermes called a CAP off, under the Authority of the Flag, to conduct a visual search for surface ships. The pilots obeyed (since they were Invincible's, they wondered why they didn't just turn on the radar and make a sweep) - some Argie planes slipped through the gap and that was that...

This is the danger when a commander isn't knowledgable. Lacking confidence in his own ability to lead due to his lack of knowledge, he delegates the parts where he's weak to others, and is unable to guide his less experienced staff with his own experience, or to make an intelligent decision between advisors that may be telling him different stories.

Of course, a commander cannot be really knowledgable in every field, and so he has to delegate something to his staff and hope they are proficient. However, one wonders about the wisdom of necessitating the delegation of the most important field.

Quote:
Back in the day of diesel subs was in the 30s, not now. Most sub captains today will be late 30s-mid-40s. Most captains today are about that level as well. Also, remember, the typical diesel sub skipper of the 1930s was either a Lieutenant or a Lieutenant Commander, who would typically be around that age of 25-30.
American-centric thought. In the RN, the diesel era lasted up to the end of the Cold War. People went to command a diesel as a Lieutenant, then a nuke attack as a Commander (Lieutenant Commander "First Lieutenant" XO tour) and sometimes even a ballistic missile as a Captain.

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On shore tours: To take my RN Captain friend as an example, he started out as a communications officer, and when he finally got command, it was in charge of an ASW frigate - after a period of 20-odd years. This was in between shore tours (in fact he retired from a shore tour at a NATO billet).
I'm sure the fact that the Royal Navy was shrinking had to do with it. At least he was on the "Post List", not the "General List"...

Quote:
The shore tours that the US subjects its officers to are intended to make them well-rounded in various aspects of the military life, such as paperwork, social skills - joint service billets, in particular, are intended to function as places where officers from the different services meet and share ideas and get a feel for how the other side lives. These shore tours are typically up to a year, no more, and they return to sea.
I do understand the Americans have their theory about officers. And these shore tours aren't mega-long, but the periods do add up:
http://www.tpub.com/content/administ...s/12966_76.htm

Quote:
Just something i want to point out regarding ark's analogy of naval aviators: a carrier captain, even if he keeps up his flight certification, WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO DEPLOY IN COMBAT.

Why?

Because he's no longer a naval aviator. He may wear a pilot's wings, but his job is to manage and fight his carrier - that means evasive action, battlefield management, optimum positioning of the ship for flight ops, making sure that everything's running smoothly. When the shit hits the fan, that carrier Captain is more needed to run his ship than as another pilot.

In fact, it's not his job to manage the air wing at all, just to run the ship. Running the air wing is the Commander Air Group. It is the CAG who does the management of the fighters, tankers, and such. Thus in this instance we can have a captain who only concerns himself with the ship, while the senior mage onboard, filling the CAG role, organises things. The captain may order the air wing into battle, but it is the CAG who commands the mages in combat.
The one difference is, a carrier captain, should he be allowed to fly, is just one more pilot. A mage captain, should he be allowed to fight, might range from being worth 1 mage to the whole unit put together. Obviously, under such changed circumstances, a modification of the rule is necessary.

And you'll notice that despite the fact that his job turned shipborne, they still insist on the Captain being a naval aviator, to ensure he is indeed knowledgable about the primary mission - which is of course, planes.
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Old 2008-03-26, 08:27   Link #22588
Wild Goose
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Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
My sympathies. Had that happen to me once (the laptop gone - in the confines of the university's computer room).
Accepted. Somehow I don't think the sympathies will affect your usual debating vigour.
Quote:
Agreed. But why would the shipboard mages not share the "Sailing Force" zeitgeist?
...Oh, I thought you meant army into navy.
Quote:
Umm, that's relevant to our current discussion? Don't think I've given up that position, if that's what you are asking.
Not really, no, just that you hadn't been pimping it for a while. I was getting curious.

Quote:
So it is. Without that, conservatism among the "brown shoes" (or is it "black" for surface?) may cause the idea to never see the light of day.
IIRC, all members of the navy wear black boots.

Quote:
Is this legalistic take on the problem a bit of an attempt to avoid the essence of the issue? Also, I'll suppose that the SEALs, having worked with the subs for so long, already have some kind of mutual respect to back up the legal stuff.
I'm pointing out the legal issues.

Actually, a better analogy, now that I think of it, would be of a ship captain ordering the onboard Marine detachment to go and do stuff. The ship captain is not a Marine, would have at the most cursory understanding of VBSS and other elements of shipboard Marine det skillsets, and yet the Marine Lieutenant leading the det would follow orders.

Another example would be 24th MEU(SOC)'s rescue of USAF Captain Scott O'Grady in Bosnia. Had the Kearsarge's CO decided that it was too dangerous to risk a rescue attempt, 24th MEU(SOC) would have to stand down (ultimately the decision was made much, much higher up the chain than either 24th MEU(SOC)'s CO or Kearsarge's Captain).

Quote:
Oh, wow. Franks manages to do what another Franks (Fred) did in 1991. For Afghanistan, after the Soviet 40th Army went into that h*llhole for ten years with both types, he makes a broad decision based on what they discovered the hard way.
*shrug* The branches can be stubborn in their mindsets.

Quote:
Umm, am I supposed to be impressed by an infantry commander commanding a division with 6 armored to 4 mech. inf battalions versus one with 5 of each?
No, ark, I expect you to roll your eyes and be unimpressed. Also the point I was trying to make was that Shinseki started as an infantryman and managed to make the switch to the Cav mindset.

Quote:
In any case, artillery, infantry and cavalry are still part of the three "combat branches" of the US Army. Thanks to the combined arms dialectic, they should have very similar zeitgeists and worldview.
Not really. Infantry, Cav and arty train for different missions; while they do have overlap at times, the mindsets, zeitgeists and worldviews are different when you get down to the operational level. Tankers, artillerymen and infantry see things a lot differently.

Quote:
An example where it doesn't go so well is when Admiral Woodward, a submariner, took command of the Falklands liberation fleet. Because he doesn't know much about aviation, he basically gave it up to Hermes to control. While the overall results were satisfactory (they won, after all), it might have gone better.

At that time, the Invincible people were making their Harrier's avionics sing, while the Hermes people were not. But Hermes was flag, and Woodward had allowed Hermes ops staff to control the air battle, so the plans and instructions were written assuming the avionics on all the planes don't work reliably, and all of them were given the Authority Stamp of the admiral.

Had Woodward been an aviator, he would probably have handled the air battle more personally and might have had a more balanced assessment of the avionics than Hermes staff (which understandably favored their own aircrew's version), thus leading to different decisions. And he'll have retained control. Instead, he lost it. One of the more practical effects, was the loss of Sheffield. Apparently, Hermes called a CAP off, under the Authority of the Flag, to conduct a visual search for surface ships. The pilots obeyed (since they were Invincible's, they wondered why they didn't just turn on the radar and make a sweep) - some Argie planes slipped through the gap and that was that...

This is the danger when a commander isn't knowledgable. Lacking confidence in his own ability to lead due to his lack of knowledge, he delegates the parts where he's weak to others, and is unable to guide his less experienced staff with his own experience, or to make an intelligent decision between advisors that may be telling him different stories.

Of course, a commander cannot be really knowledgable in every field, and so he has to delegate something to his staff and hope they are proficient. However, one wonders about the wisdom of necessitating the delegation of the most important field.
Point on delegation. However, again, consider the fact that Woodward was a submariner, and that in this situation the more appropriate choice should have been either a surface warfare officer or an aviator. Totally different branches. And mind you, a fair number of American CVBG Flag officers are from the surface fleet, and yet nobody seems to think the US Navy's CVBGs are less capable simply because they're commanded by surface warfare admirals...

Quote:
American-centric thought. In the RN, the diesel era lasted up to the end of the Cold War. People went to command a diesel as a Lieutenant, then a nuke attack as a Commander (Lieutenant Commander "First Lieutenant" XO tour) and sometimes even a ballistic missile as a Captain.
No, they went to Perisher as Lieutenants. Diesel as LCDR, Commander for a SSN, and then perhaps Captain for a Boomer or remaning with the SSN.

Quote:
I'm sure the fact that the Royal Navy was shrinking had to do with it. At least he was on the "Post List", not the "General List"...
*shrug* He got his frigate a few years before the Falklands, when the RN was at its Cold War height.

Quote:
I do understand the Americans have their theory about officers. And these shore tours aren't mega-long, but the periods do add up:
http://www.tpub.com/content/administ...s/12966_76.htm
On the other hand it seems to be working so maybe we shouldn't be so quick to knock it? Who knows - perhaps joint tours between AF, Navy, Enforcer and GF personnel could have eased the bad blood between the TSAB's branches...

...right, that's not gonna happen ever.

Quote:
The one difference is, a carrier captain, should he be allowed to fly, is just one more pilot. A mage captain, should he be allowed to fight, might range from being worth 1 mage to the whole unit put together. Obviously, under such changed circumstances, a modification of the rule is necessary.

And you'll notice that despite the fact that his job turned shipborne, they still insist on the Captain being a naval aviator, to ensure he is indeed knowledgable about the primary mission - which is of course, planes.
And while this is all good and well, it does not detract from the main point: a Captain's job is to run his ship, not slug it out at the grunt level. He/She doesn't have his high rank or get his princely salary just to be another mage on the battlefield. This is why despite being an S-rank, Lindy remained onboard the Athra and did not enter the fray, even in A's. If the Captain deploys, and there's something that they need the Captain for on the ship, then what?

Again, on further thought, I think an analogy that would work better would be as the mages being Marines and the ship being whatever patrol ship is hauling Marines around, putting out fires. They then have a delineation of responsiblity/authority: off the ship, on-mission, the Marines listen to their CO; back from the mission, and on the ship, awaiting go orders, the Marine CO listens to the ship Captain. We even see this in fiction: in the Halo novel, ODST Marine Major DaSilva has no choice but to obey orders from Captain Keyes despite the fact that Keyes is a naval officer and DaSilva has more experience in this matter - Keyes overrules him and he has to obey.

Also, something that occured to me: Ark, regarding your complaints of the WO shunt being a way to push mages aside and make them unhappy with no career prospects & suchs... I point you at the SEAL community. Enlisted SEALs can, if they're good enough, stay SEALs for life. But SEAL officers? Their prospects are fairly limited. They can't transfer to the surface fleet, and field-grade SEAL officer billets are limited (SEAL Teams are commanded by Lieutenant Commanders, SEAL Team Six is the only SEAL team that allows a Captain to lead it - then again it IS the Navy's answer to Delta Force, and in the 60-year history of the UDTs and SEALs there has been only ONE SEAL 4-star. The head honcho SEAL is, IIRC, only a 2-star). Options outside active duty are essentially staff jobs.

That said the reason the SEALs aren't hemmoraghing officers is because it takes so long to train new SEAL officers so they slow down the droppings of officers and retirements - plus many in the SEAL community are all motivated with the GWOT.

*rolls eyes* We sidestep this all in the OFM fics by making it very clear that the Aus'ruf's skipper takes his marching orders from Erick, and in how the OFM are rather Marine-like at times. (Along with a healthy mix of SEAL and Delta and ONI.) Then again, Erick is an infantryman, and infantry officers are expected to lead from the front...
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Old 2008-03-26, 08:37   Link #22589
Kha
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Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
One can argue that Nanoha was originally a male in a female body... and in this case, it seems genderbending proved that right. No matter which gender, Nanoha manages to remain mostly the same!
Indeed, I found that I needed to change NOTHING other than gender!

Okay, maybe I made Nanoha more GAR than before, but it's just because of the higher testosterone level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by USB500 View Post


Male or not, Nanoha is still and always is the White Demon. Also...

[vader]
The boyband is strong within this one.
[/vader]

*runs*
Kha-chan: Tousen desu.

And I believe you guys are catching the Tsukasa Domyouji vibes that I've implanted a little in Nanoha?



Once the images appear, I'll bend the rest of the female Aces over! ...

...wait that didn't sound right.
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Old 2008-03-26, 10:42   Link #22590
arkhangelsk
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
No, ark, I expect you to roll your eyes and be unimpressed. Also the point I was trying to make was that Shinseki started as an infantryman and managed to make the switch to the Cav mindset.
One must question the degree of mindset change just because of a single battalion worth of TOE difference.

Quote:
Point on delegation. However, again, consider the fact that Woodward was a submariner, and that in this situation the more appropriate choice should have been either a surface warfare officer or an aviator.
And arguably, for a ship that basically serves as a mobile base (or even battle-taxi) for mages that deals with magical problems, an elite mage will at least be as appropriate as a Master for Senior Officer.

Quote:
Totally different branches. And mind you, a fair number of American CVBG Flag officers are from the surface fleet, and yet nobody seems to think the US Navy's CVBGs are less capable simply because they're commanded by surface warfare admirals...
While he will lack detailed knowledge of the air, the surface warfare admiral will be proficient with the other part of his duties - his escort screen, shiphandling, ASW work, basic mine countermeasures ... etc, so he'll be bringing some of his specialist knowledge to the scene.

Quote:
On the other hand it seems to be working so maybe we shouldn't be so quick to knock it? Who knows - perhaps joint tours between AF, Navy, Enforcer and GF personnel could have eased the bad blood between the TSAB's branches...
Rather than knocking it here, I'm responding here to Tk3997's insistence that a Captain can only be made by "decades" of dedicating on ships.

Quote:
Again, on further thought, I think an analogy that would work better would be as the mages being Marines and the ship being whatever patrol ship is hauling Marines around, putting out fires. They then have a delineation of responsiblity/authority: off the ship, on-mission, the Marines listen to their CO; back from the mission, and on the ship, awaiting go orders, the Marine CO listens to the ship Captain. We even see this in fiction: in the Halo novel, ODST Marine Major DaSilva has no choice but to obey orders from Captain Keyes despite the fact that Keyes is a naval officer and DaSilva has more experience in this matter - Keyes overrules him and he has to obey.
1) How well did that scene work out?
2) How pleased was DaSilva?

Also, I'll presume that unlike a TSAB ship, a Halo patrol vessel has armament that is regularly employed, and thus the marine unit is but one of the several means at Captain Keyes' disposal. In that case, subordinating the Marine detachment under the ship Captain is appropriate, similar to how it would be done on a real destroyer with such a detachment.

Quote:
Also, something that occured to me: Ark, regarding your complaints of the WO shunt being a way to push mages aside and make them unhappy with no career prospects & suchs... I point you at the SEAL community. Enlisted SEALs can, if they're good enough, stay SEALs for life. But SEAL officers? Their prospects are fairly limited. They can't transfer to the surface fleet, and field-grade SEAL officer billets are limited (SEAL Teams are commanded by Lieutenant Commanders, SEAL Team Six is the only SEAL team that allows a Captain to lead it - then again it IS the Navy's answer to Delta Force, and in the 60-year history of the UDTs and SEALs there has been only ONE SEAL 4-star. The head honcho SEAL is, IIRC, only a 2-star). Options outside active duty are essentially staff jobs.
Note, however, that being a SEAL is a choice. If a person who otherwise is of SEAL qualities decides that he wants to do something else in the US Navy, no one is going to stop him, and the same qualities that might have made him a good SEAL would have carried him far in any branch.

Another will be the US warrant officer branch in general. Some people actually don't have ambitions in command and such a path is perfect for them to begin with.

However, what Tk3997 is suggesting is that in the name of the TSAB, all elite mages are to be forced (or at least pressured) down the shunt and barred from other roads. They won't be allowed to be commanders or planners because having elite mages in such roles is a waste - they all have to be in the field. So, imagine the SEAL community, only that there are no officers. Everyone higher up is drawn from elsewhere. Still fun?

Quote:
*rolls eyes* We sidestep this all in the OFM fics by making it very clear that the Aus'ruf's skipper takes his marching orders from Erick, and in how the OFM are rather Marine-like at times. (Along with a healthy mix of SEAL and Delta and ONI.) Then again, Erick is an infantryman, and infantry officers are expected to lead from the front...
There we go. You are effectively having the older Captain-Master relationship, with Aus'ruf's "skipper" being the Master, and Erick's the Captain, which is probably the ideal relationship for a TSAB vessel in general considering the mix of means it has at its disposal.
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Old 2008-03-26, 10:47   Link #22591
tshouryuu
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OI!!!! Wrong thread you guys. Move the Military discussion to the Military, Authority & Decisions In MSLN series Thread. All this talk doesn't belong here.
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Old 2008-03-26, 11:25   Link #22592
Keroko
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Originally Posted by ghazghkull View Post
Indeed...Indeed :3 Well so far, so good, wouldn't you agree? :3
I'm most definetely not complaining.

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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Well those Data beings don't self replicate and become impossible to remove without bruning a planet down to the bed rock for one...
Psaw, we can work around that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
yeah we have late night IRC chat to thank for that once it came up everyone started talking about how to gender bend the rest of the cast...
Sometimes the result of a small post can be so... satisfying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
The problem with this is that Hayate ought to be fighting at very long range so "getting the jump on her" is going to be tricky at best. Beyond that her skill set isn't suited to close fighting period so she has no sane reason to enter a confined area were ambush is possible without massive support anyway. (Just like you don't drive a tank into a city without infantry all around it).
80% of combat in Nanoha is mid- to close-range, combine that with teleportation abillities (Lieze Aria could move extremely long ranges in a flash, for example) and the idea of closing up on her becomes far more likely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
The issue is that you seem to think that just a pittance of training is going to really help. I doubt it will myself if anything it could engender dangerous overconfidence. The skills needed for effective close range fighting and for long range boom and zoom nuking are entirely diffrent from those needed for close range fighting. Plus having almost no base to draw on for them it would be like trying to train a total noob it could take months years for her to grasp even enough to spar at a vuagely decent level and she'd still be pretty much helpless against a trained sowrdsmen.
(Put a guy that's been doing Jujitsu for 6 months into the ring with Royce Gracie and see how that goes maybe he last 30 seconds instead of 10...)

[COLOR=black]Learning a martial art is hard it takes allot of time and effort and having huge magic potential is only minimally helpful in this as weapons fighting is about skill, experience, and finesse more then brute power. Her huge magical potential could easily be plowed into learning new defensive powers like movement aids, trips, etc but that same huge magic potential is of little use in learning to fight at close range with a weapon. This is a important factor to consider Hayate has other things to be doing and could be forced to enter battle at any time so even if learning melee was “best” (debatable IMO) in theory in practice it might not be.
Again you seem to be asuming I expect her to defeat them. I don't, I expect her not to get pounded into oblivion as soon as someone gets close to her. I don't expect her to pull a Dante, I don't expect her to master a martial art, expect her to know basic self defense in melee. That does not take years to learn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
I'd point out that defensive fighting with weapons is acutally often harder then offense. First off it requires a healthy knowledge of what the enemy is likely to do in any given situation (which varies massively depending on weapon, his style, and other factors), intense drilling (this stuff happens so fast you can't really think about it you need muscle memory), and even still it's often hit or miss. (Nearly all styles emphasis aggression to keep the enemy off balance over defensive fighting which is often seen as a MISTAKE and a good way to lose). That said there is one thing that all such fighters agree can be used to counter superior skill in your opponent and is a highly effective defense: run away. Just giving ground and fleeing is a very common tactics in any serious fighting art.
Wait, defensive fighting is harder? If you hold your ground while fighting, yes. But defensive fighting with the goal of clearing the close combat range is actually easier then fighting offensively. The basic who's and what's of various close combat weapons doesn't exactly take years to learn (note: The basics, actual experience is a different matter) and Hayate will need it. Imagine if Hayate is caught in melee and she knows nothing about them. She'll get killed no matter the skills of the enemy. Give her some basic knowledge and self-defence, and she at least stand a chance of surviving against basic grunt 132.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Jokes aside basiclly melee fighting with weapons isn’t something you can half ass if you’re not fighting to attack and kill the enemy you really shouldn’t be doing it. It’s also often a game of mutual suicide as the fact is that two skill fighters can often kill each other despite said skill due to the close range, the lethality of the weapons, and the difficulty in blocking and parrying inherent in real world situations. The saying and its variations are so old it’s almost cliché, but it’s still true.
True, but basic training in weapons is a lot different then doing things 'half assedly' any bit of experience counts when you are fighting someone with a weapon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
The only way Nanoha or Yunno ever "handled" melee was rasing big ass force fields there enmies couldn't break easily. Nanoha didn't encouter Vita and turn RH into a spear and start trying to stab her or something. She used shields to tank hits and then blast her.

That I could see Hayate doing, but that's not "melee" IMO that's defensive magic and given you're take about "blocks" and "openings" and using her staff as a weapon that dosen't seem to be what you where thinking of either.
The manga notes Nanoha and Signum fighting in blatant melee, also note that the fight did not have a winner, which shows Nanoha can defend herself in melee. That is what I expect Hayate to be capable of: Survive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
She has flaws you could exploit she seems to have at least a bit of insecurity for example and I've always contended the mother to Vivio angle could be exploited for DRAMA(!) (though I'm not much of a fan of Kags take on it). That said yeah she's not a walking illustration of half the pathos in the DSM unlike some protagonists but as I've said that's one of the things I like about her.
Yes, I still find it a shame that 7arcs completely dropped all that potentional in favour of NanoFate fanservice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
...er... No Sousuke/Chidori mechanic?

And that timeline is where the Tentacle joke supposed to reside!!! Uuuh... How now...
Sousuke/Chidori? No, not possible. Keroko is a lot calmer by then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
I'm not quite sure why either, but it stems from me not understanding a bit of the WAAAAAGH to even bring them logically into the Nanohaverse.
Pweh, if we can introduce Tyranids, Orks shouldn't be a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
...Keroko.

*runs*
Still waiting. :3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Okay this is like Xbox HUGE (Ended up at 15,800 words) and though I've read it over a few times, I still might be missing stuff so feel free to point out anything that seems weird. I'm pretty happy with it overall though I think the fight scene might be a tad dry, but I wasn't getting much mojo going for it and basiclly just had to force it out to finish the piece so yeah I won't take any offense if you find it lacking.

I haven't used this in a while but I think it's called for...

Anyway without Further adieu my latest fic! Which still has no name... We've been over this I suck at names lets move on...

Spoiler for SIZE:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Part 2:
Spoiler for EVEN MORE SIZE:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Spoiler for Part 3 YES THREE:
That was big, that was intriguing, and to top it off with a nice cherry: It was filled with Vita!

MOAR!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
STARS-01
Genderbent of Nanoha



White Devil Never Looked This Cool.

Spoiler for Captain Nanoha Takamachi:
...
"It has arived" :3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagerou View Post
A preview of Scene 3. Posted because of implications...

Spoiler for Yuunoko in the making?:


That.... that.... that.... THAT WAS AWESOME!

If I recall... this is the first Yuunoko piece up untill now.

Gotta get off my lazy butt and write....


Anxiously awaiting the chapter. :3:3:3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Eto... I wanted to do that for UBW KhaxKeroko, since Keroko loves tech and all, Kha's mode of attack would be through there since he has access to an armory of Belka-pattern Bolter devices...
No problems here.
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Old 2008-03-26, 12:51   Link #22593
Tormenk
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It's been awhile. Almost feels strange to be posting profiles here again.

Starting off with the expanded Jack profiles is Jac.

Spoiler for Jack of Spades:


Next up, Jag.

Spoiler for Jack of Hearts:


Last profile. Revised and toned down to better fit what I think is a more accurate profile.

P.S:
I'm using the image as a visual reference only. It is in no way a port of the person howsoever.

Spoiler for The Black Fist:


Well that took quite long.

---

Next batch of profiles will be the next two Jacks, Jec and Jat. And the reworked profile of Katrina.

Also, rewriting the Signum/Lutecia piece sometime for a different approach..perhaps.

Looks like tough work ahead, seeing as I'm doing so many of the girls at one go..

...
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Last edited by Tormenk; 2008-03-29 at 04:05.
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Old 2008-03-26, 15:01   Link #22594
ghazghkull
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Well here's chapter VI. Enjoy

Spoiler for MGLN Riot Force 6:
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Old 2008-03-26, 15:57   Link #22595
Evangelion Xgouki
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Quote:
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Hooray for Mayura. :3
Ryotaro: Yup. She's got a kind heart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
It's like in the GB Haruhi thread; bend one, bend all. =3
Oh boy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
We've got Nanoha-kun and Kha-chan up and running (), all we need are the others...

...Subaru genderbent wouldn't be an original chara anymore...

...And now remember that scene of Nanoha on the bed and Fate undressing...?

...now imagine Nanoha-kun and Feito-kun...

*RUNS FROM EXPLODING BRAINS*
Ya know...that only reminds me of the room (and by room I mean at least 1000) of screaming yaoi-fangirls at the Bishounen Auction at Yaoi Con...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Okay this is like Xbox HUGE (Ended up at 15,800 words) and though I've read it over a few times, I still might be missing stuff so feel free to point out anything that seems weird. I'm pretty happy with it overall though I think the fight scene might be a tad dry, but I wasn't getting much mojo going for it and basiclly just had to force it out to finish the piece so yeah I won't take any offense if you find it lacking.


Epic BLUECHESSIUM is EPIC!!

Great story there, TK! It was definitely worth all the wait.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagerou View Post
A preview of Scene 3. Posted because of implications...

Spoiler for Yuunoko in the making?:

Wh-what is this?! Yuunoko? HERE? DO WANT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Indeed, I found that I needed to change NOTHING other than gender!

Okay, maybe I made Nanoha more GAR than before, but it's just because of the higher testosterone level.
I suddenly have an image of Nanoha being like Guy Shishiro....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Once the images appear, I'll bend the rest of the female Aces over! ...

...wait that didn't sound right.


KKKKKKKKHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!! !!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Sometimes the result of a small post can be so... satisfying.
Yes...never underestimate the power of the internet. And I wonder who ever could have been the one to make such a little post?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghazghkull View Post
Well here's chapter VI. Enjoy

Spoiler for MGLN Riot Force 6:
KITAAAA!!!!

Oh man...poor, poor Farukon . I wonder if he did something to piss Hayate off to deserve all of this . Glad to finally see the Belkarangers in action, though. Gonna be interesting to see Hammer and the Rangers on the upcoming mission. And poor Vivio...she probably has to put up with Syn's ranting about how stupid the rangers are at night
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Old 2008-03-26, 16:07   Link #22596
Keroko
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Well here's chapter VI. Enjoy

Spoiler for MGLN Riot Force 6:
"Less Syn hairpulling then I expected, but we got lots of laughs in return, so it's cool. Red Falcon, hehehe.

By the way, I did-"

"Keroko-kun! Keroko-kun!"

"Wha? Keroko-tan?"

What looked like a tiny Rein sized version of Keroko-chan flew into the room at great speed. As soon as her eyes found Keroko-kun she started pulling on his shirt.

"Come on! Come on! Kane-san called for us! We need to go!"

"Wait, Keroko-tan calm down, can't you just go by yourself as usual?"

"No way! Kane-san send me to get you personally, it's really really big! Come on, come on!"

Pulling Keroko-kun from his seat, the tiny girl proceeded to push him towards the door.

"Wai- Keroko-tan, stop pushing!"

"Hayaku! Hayaku!"

As Keroko-kun was forcibly retrieved to fullfill his duties as a member of Kane's inner circle, a short silence fell over the room, before being broken by the sound of roaring engines and the cries of many. Keroko-kun stood on the high spot of a Raider Buggy, Keroko-tan on his shoulder. He stared at his subordinates, seated on Attack Bikes or in tanks or Reckoners, who had come to pick up their commander. He raised his fist in the air, and with a deafening roar the vehicles surged forward, and a massive cry roared througout the street.


KANE LIVES!



Yes I picked up Kane's Wrath today, yes it is awesome, yes Keroko-tan is enjoying it immensely as well.
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Old 2008-03-26, 16:21   Link #22597
Evangelion Xgouki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
By the way, I did-"

"Keroko-kun! Keroko-kun!"

"Wha? Keroko-tan?"

What looked like a tiny Rein sized version of Keroko-chan flew into the room at great speed. As soon as her eyes found Keroko-kun she started pulling on his shirt.

"Come on! Come on! Kane-san called for us! We need to go!"

"Wait, Keroko-tan calm down, can't you just go by yourself as usual?"

"No way! Kane-san send me to get you personally, it's really really big! Come on, come on!"

Pulling Keroko-kun from his seat, the tiny girl proceeded to push him towards the door.

"Wai- Keroko-tan, stop pushing!"

"Hayaku! Hayaku!"

As Keroko-kun was forcibly retrieved to fullfill his duties as a member of Kane's inner circle, a short silence fell over the room, before being broken by the sound of roaring engines and the cries of many. Keroko-kun stood on the high spot of a Raider Buggy, Keroko-tan on his shoulder. He stared at his subordinates, seated on Attack Bikes or in tanks or Reckoners, who had come to pick up their commander. He raised his fist in the air, and with a deafening roar the vehicles surged forward, and a massive cry roared througout the street.


KANE LIVES!



Yes I picked up Kane's Wrath today, yes it is awesome, yes Keroko-tan is enjoying it immensely as well.
"What's with all the noise?"

*checks his new message*

"I-it's time!"

He runs to his basement and pulls his body armor, helmet, and rifle from the hidden wall compartment. A push of a concealed button reveals a Recon Bike cleaned and fueled. A short ride later, the roar of the bike's engine is drowned out by the sound of the other bikes, buggies, and tanks. The procession of vehicles slowed to a stop to allow the newcomer, his commander ranks glistening in the sun, transfer to his position on the Scorpion tank. With the loud roar of dozens of engines, the procession...the army drove on to meet their brothers in arms.

"Sir!" called out the driver below, "ETA to rendezvous with Deathwing... 20 minutes."

He raised a fist to the sky to proclaim the glorious news:

PEACE THROUGH POWER!!!

THE MESSIAH LIVES!!!!


Awaits for his pre-order to be delivered to day upon returning home from work...mwahahaha....
Evangelion Xgouki is offline  
Old 2008-03-26, 16:26   Link #22598
PhoenixG
Hi-Eternal
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Backyard of Moriya shrine
Age: 29
*blinks blinks*

Eurmmm..... did I miss something here? O.o;
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Old 2008-03-26, 16:36   Link #22599
Tk3997
Loveable Jerk
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Greensboro, North Carolina
Age: 28
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Kane's Wrath the C&C Ex-Pack is dropping this week.

Of course I fight for the side of justice!

TK grabs a long trench coat, a pair of heavy boots, and a beret from his closet and heads outside to where the Steel Talon's Battalion is already forming up. ascending a later he takes his position in the open Copula of of a MARV adjusting his cap slightly before waving his armored battalion froward. "Alright Boys we've got some Religious Fanatics to smack some sense into one hyper velocity rail gun slug at a time so let's get rolling!"A sound like rolling thunder echoes across the land as dozens of 60 ton walkers fall into formation behind the mammoth armored vehicle at the head of the formation.
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Last edited by Tk3997; 2008-03-26 at 16:50.
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Old 2008-03-26, 16:46   Link #22600
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 27
*stealths behind Tk and places a note on his back*

This week? I'm playing it as we speak. :3

See you on the battlefield.

~ Commander Keroko.
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