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View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 24 Rating
Perfect 10 164 60.52%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 63 23.25%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 21 7.75%
7 out of 10 : Good 12 4.43%
6 out of 10 : Average 8 2.95%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.37%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.37%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 0.37%
Voters: 271. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-03-26, 16:13   Link #681
SoldierOfDarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mougrim View Post
From elevators. But not from the ring. And we dont know how far this golden megalomaniacal thingy can shoot it's beams of death
Why would he destroy Solar power system? First, he destroy it and all witnesses. Second, he destroy all remains of CB. Third, he getting from power-hungry Earth gold painted throne of world ruler for something like reliable GN power generators (of course, not perpetual).
Someone already did a calculation.

The ring reaches up to 50,000 km.

The battle is taking place 300,000 km away.....(or was it 3 million?)

I mean I thought the scene where it shows Lockon floating in space was obvious enough....

And the GN Drives Tau requires an outside energy source to power them. The UN knows that since they've been using them.

The space elevators are also the frontier for the 3 blocs entry into space. He takes those out they'll be trapped on Earth for another couple of decades.
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Old 2008-03-26, 16:30   Link #682
mougrim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Someone already did a calculation.

And the GN Drives Tau requires an outside energy source to power them. The UN knows that since they've been using them.

The space elevators are also the frontier for the 3 blocs entry into space. He takes those out they'll be trapped on Earth for another couple of decades.
Maybe... May be not. In the next episode we will see. GN drives in Alehandro's MA... I don't think they are Tau-type. Why you can not create a GN-drive then will work not perpetually, but two-three years?
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Old 2008-03-26, 17:38   Link #683
Colossa
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
hm I tried to post this yesterday but I hit f5 by accident and then just had to laugh. Let's try again.

These last couple episodes have been exciting and all, but if I take the time to back off and think a little it seems like so little of what initially drew me in and made me excited about this show ever materialized. When I think of the word peace, of what kind of mind and drive and ideal could create an organization like Celestial Being, 200 years of watching and waiting for the chance to say to the world "Fuck you, I'm the boss now", to say "I am against all that you stand for, you will change", to say "I am humanity's judge, and you can do nothing but be judged"...honestly, I'm fascinated. I want to understand that arrogance, that absolution, that isolation...how did it come about? Genius? Suffering? Loss?

But you know, there's so little of that. There's no depth. Aeolia Schoenberg, Alejandro Corner, Wang Lyumin--the idealogues, the masterminds, the players--they seem so shallow, so insubstantial, their motivations so limited. How is it that this season's endboss is nothing more than a megalomaniac? Why does Wang Lyumin's arrogance feel so fragile, like it could be shattered if she stepped out of her closed little world for a single moment? How can Aeolia Schoenberg, the creator of the Celestial Being which has shaken the world, die with the last words of a crippled, senile fool.
Wang Liu Mei has not revealed her intentions in a direct manner, and nor has Alejandro Corner specified why his family despises Aeolia Schenberg or intends to take over the world. Equally, the viewer of Geass can wonder what the hell the Emperor is doing on his floaty island—he states the Britannia is a nation of evolution, and that is a very clear intention, but just as shallow as wanting to change the world no matter what, since he gave no reason other than "it's the natural order of things". His children are the ones acting on this philosophy, not him. And even then you cannot call Cornelia and Schneizel 'deep' in the first season. None of those who operate on the philosophy of Britannia are deep.

So, really, 'depth' is a matter of how far you interpret it. Personally, I feel Celestial Being as an organization is not defined only by the philosophies of a 200+ year-old man; rather, the organization is comprised of people who joined for their own reasons. These are the people who drive CB forward, so ultimately the ideals and philosophies of Aeolia Schenberg are not the propulsion of CB. The Meisters are.

Aeolia Schenberg was probably a scientist who did not want to see his genius used for weapons or war. Even then he decided he would have his best discoveries used as weapons to eradicate war. In no way was he a "crippled, senile fool" in his death. Doubts he had during his lifetime led him to instate the Trans Am system; maybe while he lived, awake, Aeolia knew already his intentions were futile. But that did not mean he could not try to leave a legacy that may just succeed in the hands of the right people.

I think it's best not to compare Geass with 00, because the former has been written as it aired (i.e. the writers changed according to Taniguchi's demands and also had to lengthen it to a 50 episode show) and 00 is a planned 50ep project from the start. A large part of the draw with Geass is Lelouch, but half the cast is unsubstantial, and the half that is is not very interesting nor original. Geass is good, yes, but in terms of writing and characters, 00 does trump it.
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Old 2008-03-26, 18:52   Link #684
dom33
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@colossa thank you. you said things I wanted to say about code geass in a way better than I ever could.

@blaat close enough, close enough!

@sonicx zero sometimes that's the best way to kill a character just look at most of the shrike team.(I think it was done to 80% of them.)
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Old 2008-03-26, 19:30   Link #685
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WOW... It's not even the end of the series and already the fights are epic and blood spill is touching enough to make one cry... I expect the ending of this series to blow my head off literally... They'd better keep this up.

I didn't even notice Christina and still found her speech sad... Poor... Guy that protected her.

Hallelujah and his "Bye Bye" thing was hysterical. It's great that he can still kick ass with half his gundam missing... Patrick's death took my by surprise as well, since they don't usually kill off the comic relief's till the end... Wow, just wow. Like I said, can't wait to see what the end holds...
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Old 2008-03-26, 21:15   Link #686
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HI guys i'm back. So what do you guys think because this show's gonna end this week i mean we'll just have to wait till october for season 2.

Anyway Sorry about last time because i got a message by the mods says he asked me to calm down a little. It's not like the world's gonna end soon. It's just a TV show, You got that? Don't be obsessed about it. so i'm gonna go outside and 'clear my head'.
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Old 2008-03-26, 22:26   Link #687
SoldierOfDarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mougrim View Post
Maybe... May be not. In the next episode we will see. GN drives in Alehandro's MA... I don't think they are Tau-type. Why you can not create a GN-drive then will work not perpetually, but two-three years?
Do you even know what GN drivers are?
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Old 2008-03-26, 22:30   Link #688
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*singin* i'm in love with the german film star..... Oppppsss i mean i'm in love with the show.....

The show will continue this fall.....

*listening Guns & roses song called Paradise City*
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Old 2008-03-26, 22:42   Link #689
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Just checking on the obvious, but Hallelujah was criticizing Tieria for getting disabled right? Probably annoyed that he has to finish things off on his own with half a gundam.
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Old 2008-03-26, 23:29   Link #690
Sol Falling
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Originally Posted by Colossa View Post
Wang Liu Mei has not revealed her intentions in a direct manner, and nor has Alejandro Corner specified why his family despises Aeolia Schenberg or intends to take over the world. Equally, the viewer of Geass can wonder what the hell the Emperor is doing on his floaty island—he states the Britannia is a nation of evolution, and that is a very clear intention, but just as shallow as wanting to change the world no matter what, since he gave no reason other than "it's the natural order of things". His children are the ones acting on this philosophy, not him. And even then you cannot call Cornelia and Schneizel 'deep' in the first season. None of those who operate on the philosophy of Britannia are deep.

So, really, 'depth' is a matter of how far you interpret it. Personally, I feel Celestial Being as an organization is not defined only by the philosophies of a 200+ year-old man; rather, the organization is comprised of people who joined for their own reasons. These are the people who drive CB forward, so ultimately the ideals and philosophies of Aeolia Schenberg are not the propulsion of CB. The Meisters are.

Aeolia Schenberg was probably a scientist who did not want to see his genius used for weapons or war. Even then he decided he would have his best discoveries used as weapons to eradicate war. In no way was he a "crippled, senile fool" in his death. Doubts he had during his lifetime led him to instate the Trans Am system; maybe while he lived, awake, Aeolia knew already his intentions were futile. But that did not mean he could not try to leave a legacy that may just succeed in the hands of the right people.

I think it's best not to compare Geass with 00, because the former has been written as it aired (i.e. the writers changed according to Taniguchi's demands and also had to lengthen it to a 50 episode show) and 00 is a planned 50ep project from the start. A large part of the draw with Geass is Lelouch, but half the cast is unsubstantial, and the half that is is not very interesting nor original. Geass is good, yes, but in terms of writing and characters, 00 does trump it.
heh I don't want to get too off topic but I'll say a couple things. In the end, I agree that it's not a great idea to compare Code Geass to 00 but that's three of us that have done it now so I go ahead and state my position on it (well, after first addressing the points specific to Gundom 00).

The reason I called the characters of Aeolia Schoenberg, Alejandro Corner, and Wang Lyumin 'insubstantial' was precisely because of these lack of details. We're nigh on the last episode of the first season and absolutely nothing has appeared as to their motivations, which leaves me to think that maybe there isn't very much to explicate after all.

Again, all Wang Lyumin and Aeolia Schoenberg have said in reference to their plans for the world has been that it 'must change'. All we have to direct us as to the direction for that change has been Celestial Being's vague assertion for 'stopping conflict'. What I was looking for in terms of 'depth' was the purpose of stopping conflict? Peace for peace's sake is worth jack shit, 'conflict' is a mechanism for coping with very basic issue of scarcity and a motivator for progress. Even if what I just said was bullshit, I was hoping the 'idealogy' behind this powerful, sophisticated, ancient organization extended beyond the playground morality of 'be nice to other people'.

As for Alejandro Corner, I've only watched the raws for 23 and 24 thus far so I haven't got the specifics of all the dialogue but as far as I can tell, he and his family never 'hated' Aeolia's ideals, merely wanted to appropriate what he had created for their own ends? That doesn't exactly stand at odds with the megalomanical picture his retarded laughter and coy little 'I'm a greedy man, aren't I? I want both the world and Celestial Being in my hands' paint of him.

As for the Meisters, like I said in my last post I'm basically pinning my hopes on Setsuna, who has grown on me like it seems he has on others. Allelujah/Halelujah have been criminally ignored for the latter half of this season and Tieria, whom I initially had high hopes for as a representative of integrity for Celestial Being, has devolved into more of a pussy than a truly balanced androgynoid duality. Sumeragi really doesn't do enough for me to care, and that's pretty much it for main Celestial Being characters who are still alive.

...As for Code Geass. I agree that the Emporer's rants about evolution are a bit shallow and seem like a copout to portray him as some raving lunatic. Talking particularly about the writing and characterization, however, Code Geass far and away has a larger cast of sympathetic, developed, meaningful characters. As you mentioned there is Lelouch, but the complexity of Suzaku's character equals if not surpasses Lelouch's blind drive for revenge. Karen recieved an entire episode on her issues with her native mother (though admittedly she devolved into a babbling Zero fangirl subsequently, and was further compromised through her irrational shock/outrage over Zero's real identity). The leadup to Euphemia's death and the subsequent fallout was a nightmarish tragedy that had and will have far more lasting and meaningful repurcussions for the remaining characters than even Lockon's has had in 00. You'll also have to admit that C.C. does a more effective job playing mysterious accomplice/mastermind than Livonze in 00, and is a strong female character in her own right (though personally I much prefer Shirley, whose appreciation and understanding of the 'normal Lulu' I consider the greatest loss in the show).

And I mean those are just the major characters. You can find fanboys/fangirls of 80% of the rest of the minor side characters (like myself for Shirley) who can tell you how much they appreciated and got out of the substantial characterization they recieved. Milley, Rivalz, Ougi, Lloyd, Cecil, Raksharta, Toudou, and yes, even Cornelia and along with her Guilford and Darlton (though not yet so much Schniezel, I will concede), each have meaningful and plot-relevant histories that have been explored (I might be cheating a little by referring to the Picture Book DVD extras, but many references to those histories also exist in the show itself, lending it an air of a coherent world). You really can't say the same for any of the side characters who've popped in just to die in Gundam 00. In terms of writing and characterization, the comparison is almost ridiculously black and white.

Eh, well, sorry for ranting, but my whole point was basically about the incredible lack of interesting characterization in this show, which started out with such an interesting (in terms of characterization) premise. I'm not dropping it, and I'm still enjoying it, but it just turned out to be so much less than I thought it would be.
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Old 2008-03-27, 00:08   Link #691
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All i gotta that gundam 00 is my 'once in a while' @ 'in a meantime' show because i was in a long waiting for the upcoming Code Geass R2 since last september this april.
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Old 2008-03-27, 00:25   Link #692
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First a Code Geass hangover and now a Gundam 00 hangover. Well at least the Gundam 00 hangover won't be as long as Code Geass R2 was because that must have been a long agonizing wait to those who kept up to date with the episodes.
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Old 2008-03-27, 00:51   Link #693
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling
Eh, well, sorry for ranting, but my whole point was basically about the incredible lack of interesting characterization in this show, which started out with such an interesting (in terms of characterization) premise. I'm not dropping it, and I'm still enjoying it, but it just turned out to be so much less than I thought it would be.
Uh, here's a thought...Maybe Gundam 00 isn't about intense characterizations as much as it's about themes and character motives...Not all shows are the same or do they adhere to some guideline of how to present characters...00 simply has a director who wants to focus on matters far less contemporary than what you may personally want...Gundam 00 hasn't necessarily done every single thing on my checklist for what I would 100% want from a G-show or an anime in general, but what it has done it's done it well...It chooses backstory, foreshadowing, and subtle literary techniques to explore what it wants you to know about it's characters... It's trying to tell you it rejects the standard "having to know the inner-turmoil" of each character for the bigger-picture of exploring themes and motivations for war and hope...It's simply telling a story in a different way...Heck I don't need to know what my co-workers do at home to shed a tear or feel compassion for things going wrong in their lives...I don't need to know the depth of their full stories to understand common struggles...I just think character development, like everything else in literature, is a subjective thing sometimes...Must every tale have this litmus of development to be considered enuff to fill some imaginary cup? In the war-scenario 00 has created (which is far closer to the roots of the earlier G-series morso than any G-show since the mid-90's), it is trading that element off to explore themes it considers more worthy to the atmosphere of the story (Which is the chaos and randomness of death via war--Sometimes you die before you get a chance to fully develop, because them the breaks...The sobering reality of this great show)...
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Old 2008-03-27, 05:39   Link #694
XYKE
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Jafri smoke less crack please...

I like where this show is heading towards, if only kishi did the same in his story once in a while...
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Old 2008-03-27, 06:18   Link #695
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I blame Yousuke Kuroda for some of the perceive shallowness of the characters. While his plotting is usually interesting, the way he writes dialog is extremely formulaic and seems to be the problem for most of his shows-- such as having of a bunch of guys chaining together monologues, over relying on catchphrases, unrealistic and predictable dialog, spending way too much time on technobabble and superficial, pretentious statements, having mysterious villains/characters of ambiguous intent sitting alone in dark rooms somewhere and marveling to themselves about how their plan is working...

So yeah, as a result, his characters all tend not to be very likable or easy to relate to. And this is true for just about all of his shows.
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Old 2008-03-27, 07:42   Link #696
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@sonicx zero sometimes that's the best way to kill a character just look at most of the shrike team.(I think it was done to 80% of them.)
Personally I don't like that style of handling characters, because well I don't care about them. Chris and Lichty's scene never affected me because throughout the series I felt they were just there, the could have had some bits of important development in some earlier ep. like Felt but no they had to do it in the 2nd to last ep. of the season. But hey if you think that was the best way to deal with characters then more power to you, its just not my preference.
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Old 2008-03-27, 08:00   Link #697
dom33
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@sol wheren't guilford and darlton portrayed as nothing more than evil thugs?as for cornelia she idolized marianne and yet has a problem with numbers?that's sheer hypocrisy,also as proof of her inconsitent portrayal here what i saw at the season finale

injured soilder: ughh the pain.
cornelia: oh mygod! are you alright?
injured soilder: no I'm fine please leave hime-sama
(toudo attacks)
cornelia: oh my god!(uses soilder as human sheild) protect me!(d33:again what i saw)
(after guilford attacks and tells cornelia to escape)
cornelia:do you think I am someone who would just leave my trops and runaway?
d33:wtf didn't she just do that with the injured soilder?

I'll have the rest latter.

@brightman kuroda seems to be doing a fine job if you ask me.

@sonicx zero okay then, we agree to disagree.
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Old 2008-03-27, 08:51   Link #698
Traece
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Were out here in the asteroid fields for an "All Heroes Must Go!" sale! Come on down people! We are OVERSTOCKED! Filled to the brim! OUR PRICES ARE LOWER THAN EVER! You'd be an absolutely fool not to buy one of these precious heroes! If you don't, we have to give them the chair! [Commercial Thumbs Up w/ Big Smile]!
Gundam is the only series with a patented technique for killing off all the characters. They wait until the last five episodes, and then start killing them off. It's true, believe it. 0079 is a good example. As well as Seed. Sorry if I spoiled anything for anyone, 0079 has been out for a long, long time. Seed was aired on television. Now here ending the first season we have half the original cast, all the couples are dead (literally, at least half dead), except for the Setsuna-Princess couple, and a mobile armor is involved. Follows the grand scheme of Gundam, just with more spice and big fangs firing big things at tall things (spice=action; big fangs=Mobile Armor; big things at tall things=giant laser beams vs tall gundams). <_<
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Old 2008-03-27, 11:12   Link #699
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I know, i know. I just want to remind to you guys what you will expect the ending in the final episode of gundam 00. I was very sad & dissapointing cause the show will continue this october. I didn't screaming and get angry to you guys i mean I just barely dissapointed about the show will be cliffhanger and left wondering what happened. what is wrong with you people? i just want to looking for some answers. that's all. i mean i felt nervous right now.
We know how you feel alright? So you do not need to emphasize it over and over again...
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Old 2008-03-27, 11:17   Link #700
Jeffry2009
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We know how you feel alright? So you do not need to emphasize it over and over again...
i know. thanks. i just can't wait for the final episode, you know.

Last edited by Jeffry2009; 2008-03-27 at 23:12.
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