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Old 2008-03-29, 23:08   Link #6201
Jintor
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Wait... didn't Discreet have an edit of the Chapter 3 Finale, as well? It's buried back there, someplace. Better go add it to the testimony court record editjob...
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Old 2008-03-29, 23:09   Link #6202
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Jintor View Post
Wait... didn't Discreet have an edit of the bit before that, as well? It's buried back there, someplace.
I already uploaded yours to the B-T wiki with my fixes. Go check it out there.

Speaking of which, I need to upload your version of Chapter Two as well...
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Old 2008-03-29, 23:09   Link #6203
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Originally Posted by ChrissieXD View Post
"Dear Diary,

I swear, I think my little brother is looking at you. Or, if not him, then there is SOMEBODY looking at these hidden contents. After all, I see all of my thoughts suddenly posted on the internet, with people occassionally commenting on them. Then again, maybe that's Haruki manipulating me with his godliness.

So, that volleyball game was a mess. Our class lost the match first round, against Itsuko's team, nonetheless. Honestly, it was quite amazing to watch that girl spike the ball. I just wanted to see her spike it again and again, it was that interesting to watch. Then again, all the guys in the crowd probably wanted to as well, considering that she kind of... well... "jiggled" a bit on the landing.

Afterwards, I went to see Haruki outside. Naturally, as goalkeeper, he was amazing. I have never seen a goalkeeper able to punt the ball directly into the opposite goal until I saw him. They actually made it into the finals as well, thanks to him.

Well, Diary, I guess it's finally "That time of the month", so I'm not exactly in the best mood. So, I'll have to talk to you later.

Sincerely,
Kyon-ko"
....
I.... I can't get the thought of Itsuko "jiggling" out of my mind now.

Oh god why.

In other news, I've finally managed to organize my no seitenkan folder, going to do one last duplicate sweep then it'll be ready to go.
I plan on torrenting it because 280 mb is a bit big to be splitting up on some file sharing site.
If you can't torrent, I do have the version 1 of my image pack posted on mediafire.

That's here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?jo2bdimmyn1 - Suzumiya no Seitenkan.part1.rar
http://www.mediafire.com/?tsmkkvy9mxz - Suzumiya no Seitenkan.part2.rar
http://www.mediafire.com/?letcbhyjxwj - Suzumiya no Seitenkan.part3.rar

Torrent is here:
http://www.mininova.org/tor/1281775

EDIT: Can you put this up on the front page RmX?
EDIT2: Yay! My first leecher!
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Old 2008-03-29, 23:11   Link #6204
kaura117
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Post that somewhere else. We're ignoring you here.



So do I. Try typing the bold tags used here in Word.



Well, technically, he never fixed time, because the Yukiverse never really happened. Sorta.

Again, he can't make the choice. Self-consistency, again.

Which must make the attitude of the time travelers interesting... with knowledge of the future, they truly have no free will.
See, that's the main fallacy I find there. If you assume that the future plays out, no matter what you do, then the time travel agency has no real motive to exist. Any individual, with that knowledge, will just assume that the universe will work out some way to do it without their own personal involvement. The only way a time travel agency would make sense is if they do have evidence that the course of actions they take do have tangible ramifications, and are not inevitable.

Mikuru isn't that uncommon a name, after all.
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Old 2008-03-29, 23:15   Link #6205
CanadaAotS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaura117 View Post
See, that's the main fallacy I find there. If you assume that the future plays out, no matter what you do, then the time travel agency has no real motive to exist. Any individual, with that knowledge, will just assume that the universe will work out some way to do it without their own personal involvement. The only way a time travel agency would make sense is if they do have evidence that the course of actions they take do have tangible ramifications, and are not inevitable.

Mikuru isn't that uncommon a name, after all.
That's just the thing though. They do have evidence that time can be changed. Haruhi can warp the time stream anyway she pleases. Which is why they sent someone to investigate
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Old 2008-03-29, 23:17   Link #6206
kaura117
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Originally Posted by CanadaAotS View Post
That's just the thing though. They do have evidence that time can be changed. Haruhi can warp the time stream anyway she pleases. Which is why they sent someone to investigate
Which is why I don't buy the self-consistency argument, actually. If Haruhi's a god, she's clearly analogous to the Greek concept of "Eris."
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Old 2008-03-29, 23:17   Link #6207
Jintor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaura117 View Post
See, that's the main fallacy I find there. If you assume that the future plays out, no matter what you do, then the time travel agency has no real motive to exist. Any individual, with that knowledge, will just assume that the universe will work out some way to do it without their own personal involvement. The only way a time travel agency would make sense is if they do have evidence that the course of actions they take do have tangible ramifications, and are not inevitable.

Mikuru isn't that uncommon a name, after all.
The future only plays out if you involve yourself, because you've already involved yourself. If you hadn't involved yourself, there would be no future as it is at the moment.

...more or less.
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Old 2008-03-29, 23:18   Link #6208
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaura117 View Post
See, that's the main fallacy I find there. If you assume that the future plays out, no matter what you do, then the time travel agency has no real motive to exist. Any individual, with that knowledge, will just assume that the universe will work out some way to do it without their own personal involvement. The only way a time travel agency would make sense is if they do have evidence that the course of actions they take do have tangible ramifications, and are not inevitable.

Mikuru isn't that uncommon a name, after all.
I don't see what you mean by that last part, but...

Why don't they have any motive to exist? They can go back in time and do whatever. Like visit Jesus.

Without any ramifications, they can travel anywhere they want, and I'm sure they did, before the timequake.

Upon their realization of what caused, they sent agents out to try and figure out exactly what Haruhi is and how they could use her.

Because, as I have said, if you can control Haruhi or her powers, you can change time at will.

Also, there's no real evidence a true "time-traveling agency" exists. I always though it was just that the government (or what passes for a government a few thousand years from now) controls access to the technology, and that the time travelers we see are just government agents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaura117 View Post
Which is why I don't buy the self-consistency argument, actually. If Haruhi's a god, she's clearly analogous to the Greek concept of "Eris."
Haruhi breaks self-consistency. The time travelers cannot. There you go.
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Old 2008-03-29, 23:20   Link #6209
CrowKenobi
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Here's another Kyon-Tsuruya doujin that got translated... Link.

Is Kyon immune to effects from time travel? If so, how much? Does that make him a "sigularity" (or special) point like in Kamen Rider Den-O?

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Old 2008-03-29, 23:21   Link #6210
Jintor
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Maybe he's so normal he breaks oddity.

I think Kaisos said something about him having ripple-pool-effect-proof memory, though...
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Old 2008-03-29, 23:22   Link #6211
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@Crow: How is it that you threaten me with the clown hammer, and yet propagate this continued off-topicness?
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Old 2008-03-29, 23:23   Link #6212
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Jintor View Post
I think Kaisos said something about him having ripple-pool-effect-proof memory, though...
He was the only one to retain memories of the Yukiverse because he was the only one in the Yukiverse who didn't have his memories replaced.

Or something. Either way, that's the only real point at which he directly changes/fixes the timeline.
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Old 2008-03-29, 23:24   Link #6213
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Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX View Post
@Crow: How is it that you threaten me with the clown hammer, and yet propagate this continued off-topicness?
He's anti-Angst not anti-CRACK. lol.
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Old 2008-03-29, 23:27   Link #6214
CrowKenobi
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Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX View Post
@Crow: How is it that you threaten me with the clown hammer, and yet propagate this continued off-topicness?
Only against the angst, only against the angst.

The time travel talk is getting pretty close to otonolgy talk and should be moved to the proper thread...

To get back on track: um, how do we get back on track?

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Old 2008-03-29, 23:27   Link #6215
kaura117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
I don't see what you mean by that last part, but...

Why don't they have any motive to exist? They can go back in time and do whatever. Like visit Jesus.

Without any ramifications, they can travel anywhere they want, and I'm sure they did, before the timequake.

Upon their realization of what caused, they sent agents out to try and figure out exactly what Haruhi is and how they could use her.

Because, as I have said, if you can control Haruhi or her powers, you can change time at will.

Also, there's no real evidence a true "time-traveling agency" exists. I always though it was just that the government (or what passes for a government a few thousand years from now) controls access to the technology, and that the time travelers we see are just government agents.



Haruhi breaks self-consistency. The time travelers cannot. There you go.
Well, first, we know there's at least an opposing group to Mikuru's, meaning that if the government does control the tech, they don't have a full monopoly on it (and thank Her Whimsicality for that. Do you trust the government with your history?). And, second, Haruhi's always existed along their line of subjective continuity. So, either they've always had a schism in accessible time frames three years prior to the start of the series, or one happened lateral to their frame, forcing a change upon their own timelines, and therefore justifying an intervention. And if it does happen laterally, then that throws self-consistency of their universe in doubt.
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Old 2008-03-29, 23:28   Link #6216
beanbrew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
He was the only one to retain memories of the Yukiverse because he was the only one in the Yukiverse who didn't have his memories replaced.

Or something. Either way, that's the only real point at which he directly changes/fixes the timeline.
Doesn't Yuki remember?
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Old 2008-03-29, 23:28   Link #6217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadaAotS View Post
He's anti-Angst not anti-CRACK. lol.
I need a bigger anti-CRACK force. Crow and his clown hammer would be good for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrowKenobi View Post
To get back on track: um, how do we get back on track?

Use your hammer.
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Old 2008-03-29, 23:33   Link #6218
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by beanbrew View Post
Doesn't Yuki remember?
Nope. She was fixed by her future self before she had the chance to live out that universe. She has a pretty good idea of what happened, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaura117 View Post
Well, first, we know there's at least an opposing group to Mikuru's, meaning that if the government does control the tech, they don't have a full monopoly on it (and thank Her Whimsicality for that. Do you trust the government with your history?). And, second, Haruhi's always existed along their line of subjective continuity. So, either they've always had a schism in accessible time frames three years prior to the start of the series, or one happened lateral to their frame, forcing a change upon their own timelines, and therefore justifying an intervention. And if it does happen laterally, then that throws self-consistency of their universe in doubt.
I personally believe that Fujiwara's group stole the technology from the government and set up their own renegade organization, devoted to the belief that time travel shouldn't exist.

As I've probably said before, three years before the start of the series (relative to the time travelers' time) the timequake happened, locking them out to travel beyond that point. They then sent agents to investigate.

And, as I also keep saying, Haruhi breaks self-consistency. They know this. They want her because of this. Hence why Adult Mikuru is dangerous.
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Old 2008-03-29, 23:34   Link #6219
Ithekro
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Time travel is one of those things that is shaped by where you learned about it. I watched way too much Star Trek (and perhaps Quantum Leap), so my view is that time can be changed, though there is a theoretical "best" timeline (or standard timeline) that characters attempt to keep on track when they or someone else messes with time. There are instances when the time travel created the "correct" future, and other times when it has wiped out the future and thus need to be corrected.

More "serious" science fiction tends to lean in either direction in terms of theories on if time is a constant or a variable. (some argue that it isn't really linear, just we can only perceive it that way due to our own limitations).

However I still haven't gotten around to reading Haruhi Books 8 or 9, but Book 7 seems to be were Kyon is "fixing" time. To the time traveler it is pre-deturmined, but what is to say that their memory of their past is not effected by the events in the "present"? Like remembering something that happened in history right after it happens while in the past. Was it always like that, of did it change to become that memory? kyon, being the narrator, wouldn't know if Mikuru's memory changed since he only has her words (and letters) to go off of.
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Old 2008-03-29, 23:37   Link #6220
Kagedanji
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I only wanted opinions to see if it looked worthy enough to post ANYWHERE. I'm not risking any fail.

I'M NOT.

SO COMMENT.
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