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View Poll Results: True Tears - Episode 13 Rating
Perfect 10 106 40.93%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 63 24.32%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 32 12.36%
7 out of 10 : Good 16 6.18%
6 out of 10 : Average 14 5.41%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 6 2.32%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.39%
3 out of 10 : Bad 4 1.54%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 17 6.56%
Voters: 259. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-03-31, 00:16   Link #221
Ascaloth
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I think I've just had a revelation as to why I have been so ambivalent about True Tears.

As most of us would know, there is a genre within the entirety of the anime medium that is classified as "harem". Although the term had often been used to misrepresent certain romance shows in recent times, the most specific definition of its premise is that it's a guy surrounded by a group of girls all chasing him, with the guy unable to choose between all of them until the very end. Apart from the obvious fanservice, the premises in harem anime is often portrayed as a paradise on earth for the spineless male lead.

I think now that True Tears, in a sense, was trying to be ambitious; it was a shot at being an anti-harem. Put simply, it's a series that tries to portray the message that having several ladies pursuing you is not all that it's cracked up to be, that in reality it IS going to hurt you quite badly emotionally. That it will result in grief for all parties, without resorting to anime stereotypes like yandere or Nice Boat. That it will result in grief for yourself, even.

However, I believe that this is where Sorrow-K's observation becomes most apt; True Tears is doing everything right, except the characters. The failure is that Aiko didn't even look like being part of the scene despite supposedly being the third wheel around which things are supposed to revolve. The bigger failure is that Hiromi's angst drowned out the underlying motivations behind that angst. The even bigger failure is that Noe's eccentric manner of dealing with her own angst is also drowning out her underlying motivations underneath the angst.

The biggest failure is that Shinichiro's angst over being torn between the two loves of his life is just not obvious enough. All these failures are why True Tear's theme just flew right over the heads of the significant minority who didn't like this series, and even more so the shippers who are too focused on their favourite girl. To put it simply, True Tears was too subtle for its own good.

It was a nice try, but it needs some real polishing. I think I may just have figured out the axis around the Triple Critique that I'm going to write for True Tears.
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Old 2008-03-31, 00:29   Link #222
mikesince83
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Time to fly...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
A full 76.63% of the voters gave this episode an 8 or above. 85.8% if you want to include the 7-voters. If anything... it is only a vocal minority that is disparaging about this episode.
Ah, I should have clarified. I was referring to posts like this one that were reviewing the series as a whole. But you're right, even in that case it's probably just a vocal minority.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Episode 10 should have been the ending! In comparison, Episode 13 lacked the "natural high" that Episode 10 provided.
Episode 10 was great, and comparing the two I can see how you could come to that conclusion. I do think the latter episodes were necessary, though more so for Hiromi than Noe. She had yet to work through some of personal conflict surrounding her past. Shin's actions at the end of 10 also served as much needed justification/foreshadowing for his final decision.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Chibi View Post
How am I supposed to accept that Shin actually cares about Hiromi AT ALL when the only real emotion's he's ever shown in the series was towards Noe? He's shown an entire cascade of emotions to the girl, but when he's around Hiromi it's all monotone script reading over dramatic nonsense.
Maybe you just missed it?
  • Hearing Hiromi say she likes No.4.
  • Protecting Hiromi from his mother.
  • After seeing Hiromi at the bike accident.
  • Chasing the moving van.

That's just off the top of my head...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
The bigger failure is that Hiromi's angst drowned out the underlying motivations behind that angst. The even bigger failure is that Noe's eccentric manner of dealing with her own angst is also drowning out her underlying motivations underneath the angst.The biggest failure is that Shinichiro's angst over being torn between the two loves of his life is just not obvious enough.
Those couple sentences had my head spinning. So much angst! I do agree that Noe was not developed enough for us to really understand the complexity of what she was dealing with emotionally. I do however respectfully disagree with your thoughts on Aiko and Hiromi. Aiko was never intended to play a major roll, or for that matter have anything revolve around her. With only 13 episodes theres no way they could really delve into her character as with Hiromi and Noe. She served as a momentary distraction and she served it well. As for Hiromi, it was clear to me that the majority of her interaction (angst) with Shin was being driven by her attempts to deal with her and her mothers past.

Last edited by mikesince83; 2008-03-31 at 00:59. Reason: Responded to Ascaloth
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Old 2008-03-31, 00:48   Link #223
Mushi
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I thought this was a wonderful series. Beautifully produced, emotionally gripping. I don't know that I've ever had my heart twisted in such a knot for the entire duration of an episode as I did this final one.

I'm feeling a little emotionally bruised right now because I liked Noe so much more than Hiromi. But, I'm very satisfied with the ending. The most important thing for Noe was to find her tears and I loved the way they showed that.

I also felt like Shin was more lively around Noe and just didn't see any magic with Hiromi. But, I think that might be the difference between a calm, quiet, steadfast love, and the flighty exhilaration of being around someone who was more of a "sparkplug" like Noe.

And that line... "I'm in love with Hiromi. But when I see you... my heart wavers." Gawd... the agony.
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Old 2008-03-31, 00:49   Link #224
vio5555
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@ Ascaloth

I'm not sure what to say, but I think your position makes True Tears seem a bit too ambitious.

The point I took from it was that they wanted to set up a believable triangle by having a guy who's been interested in a girl for a long time have another girl help him be all that he can be.

In some sense though they wanted the main portion of the angst and drama to occur after he had already resolved to end up with one girl but realized that he actually had feelings as well for the other one. Subsequently, they wanted us to really realize how heartbreaking it can be when the main character truly has feelings for two girls but chooses to remain loyal to the first.

I don't see how Aiko is a failure; they had either of two choices, 1- make her the elder stateman who elucidates upon Hiromi's actions as she does at first, or 2- jump in with a bang (i.e. the first kiss) and then leave quickly as the main character has no feelings for her. Obviously they went with the latter, but either way the execution was there and she fulfilled her role well; regardless I don't think an argument can be made that she would have been more compelling under the first choice.

Honestly, both Hiromi and Noe were created to be extremely emotional characters in the dimensions that they were shown, and in that sense they're unrealistic and hard to identify with, but I'd argue that the kind of drama and angst they were setting up required the girls to become extremely troubled by the end which is why they had issues with Shin's inability to resolve the situation.

Thus, I'd probably argue that they had to create unrealistic representations of Hiromi and Noe but detail them well enough that we'd understand what they were going through, which is probably why I understand your gripe in some sense. It's just that I think it was intended and done as well as possible.

I sort of see where you're going with the last point on Shin, but I think the problem was that although he intended to resolve everything around 10; he was unable to until he acknowledged his feelings for Noe and then figured out what to do about it. In that sense I do agree with you that it should have been more obvious earlier on that he was developing feelings for Noe and that it was causing him to be unable to resolve the situation earlier.

Finally, to wrap all of the above together, I think that the point of the show was to maximize our understanding of how hard it is for a guy in this position to choose between two girls that he has real feelings for. Hiromi and Noe being somewhat hard to identify with by the end is a part of this since the drama had to be maximized around the main character's wavering between the two.

Maybe I'm taking too narrow a view on what True Tears set out to do which is why I don't really see where you're going assuming that premise.

@ Reckoner

I really don't understand why you see the mother's actions as being inconsistent unless you're unwilling to accept the assumption that she disliked Hiromi early on for representing Hiromi's mom, but she does the 180 over the realization that the reckless behavior is more reminiscient of herself.

I do agree that it was a sudden change, but you also saw how open Shin reacted at that moment with Hiromi after the crash. I'd like to think we can give Shin's mom the same benefit of the doubt that we gave to Shin at that moment just forgetting everything and embracing Hiromi. The same thing probably went through her mind that somehow Hiromi is channeling her and not her mother...

Last edited by vio5555; 2008-03-31 at 01:06.
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Old 2008-03-31, 01:01   Link #225
Master Chibi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesince83 View Post

Maybe you just missed it?
  • Hearing Hiromi say she likes No.4.
  • Protecting Hiromi from his mother.
  • After seeing Hiromi at the bike accident.
  • Chasing the moving van.

That's just off the top of my head...
I said forced, didn't I?
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Old 2008-03-31, 01:16   Link #226
Ascaloth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesince83 View Post
Those couple sentences had my head spinning. So much angst! I do agree that Noe was not developed enough for us to really understand the complexity of what she was dealing with emotionally. I do however respectfully disagree with your thoughts on Aiko and Hiromi. Aiko was never intended to play a major roll, or for that matter have anything revolve around her. With only 13 episodes theres no way they could really delve into her character as with Hiromi and Noe. She served as a momentary distraction and she served it well. As for Hiromi, it was clear to me that the majority of her interaction (angst) with Shin was being driven by her attempts to deal with her and her mothers past.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vio5555 View Post
@ Ascaloth

I'm not sure what to say, but I think your position makes True Tears seem a bit too ambitious.

The point I took from it was that they wanted to set up a believable triangle by having a guy who's been interested in a girl for a long time have another girl help him be all that he can be.

In some sense though they wanted the main portion of the angst and drama to occur after he had already resolved to end up with one girl but realized that he actually had feelings as well for the other one. Subsequently, they wanted us to really realize how heartbreaking it can be when the main character truly has feelings for two girls but chooses to remain loyal to the first.

I don't see how Aiko is a failure; they had either of two choices, 1- make her the elder stateman who elucidates upon Hiromi's actions as she does at first, or 2- jump in with a bang (i.e. the first kiss) and then leave quickly as the main character has no feelings for her. Obviously they went with the latter, but either way the execution was there and she fulfilled her role well; regardless I don't think an argument can be made that she would have been more compelling under the first choice.

Honestly, both Hiromi and Noe were created to be extremely emotional characters in the dimensions that they were shown, and in that sense they're unrealistic and hard to identify with, but I'd argue that the kind of drama and angst they were setting up required the girls to become extremely troubled by the end which is why they had issues with Shin's inability to resolve the situation.

Thus, I'd probably argue that they had to create unrealistic representations of Hiromi and Noe but detail them well enough that we'd understand what they were going through, which is probably why I understand your gripe in some sense. It's just that I think it was intended and done as well as possible.

I sort of see where you're going with the last point on Shin, but I think the problem was that although he intended to resolve everything around 10; he was unable to until he acknowledged his feelings for Noe and then figured out what to do about it. In that sense I do agree with you that it should have been more obvious earlier on that he was developing feelings for Noe and that it was causing him to be unable to resolve the situation earlier.

Finally, to wrap all of the above together, I think that the point of the show was to maximize our understanding of how hard it is for a guy in this position to choose between two girls that he has real feelings for. Hiromi and Noe being somewhat hard to identify with by the end is a part of this since the drama had to be maximized around the main character's wavering between the two.

Maybe I'm taking too narrow a view on what True Tears set out to do which is why I don't really see where you're going assuming that premise.
First off, let's talk about Aiko. Fair enough, there wasn't much the writers could do with her given 13 episodes. So the question still remains; why was she there at all? True Tears would not have been True Tears without Noe, or Hiromi; the same can't be said about Aiko. She could have been little more than a side character, and she'd have served her purpose well enough.

Yet it's clear she's supposed to be a main girl of sorts; Shinichiro still gets flashbacks of 'the kiss' from time to time, yet that was never fully resolved on his part. On Aiko's part, perhaps, but not exactly on Shin's. Ultimately it was a guy being torn between two girls; Aiko should have made it three, or she should have stayed in the background, but she ended up neither here nor there. I don't like that.

Otherwise, you're pretty much on the same stand as I, vio5555. I just thought the characterization was not up to par in the end.
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Old 2008-03-31, 01:51   Link #227
vio5555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
First off, let's talk about Aiko. Fair enough, there wasn't much the writers could do with her given 13 episodes. So the question still remains; why was she there at all? True Tears would not have been True Tears without Noe, or Hiromi; the same can't be said about Aiko. She could have been little more than a side character, and she'd have served her purpose well enough.

Yet it's clear she's supposed to be a main girl of sorts; Shinichiro still gets flashbacks of 'the kiss' from time to time, yet that was never fully resolved on his part. On Aiko's part, perhaps, but not exactly on Shin's. Ultimately it was a guy being torn between two girls; Aiko should have made it three, or she should have stayed in the background, but she ended up neither here nor there. I don't like that.

Otherwise, you're pretty much on the same stand as I, vio5555. I just thought the characterization was not up to par in the end.
I'm going to start off with the premise that the writers intended for us to really understand 6 characters: Shin, Noe, Hiromi, Jun, Aiko and Nobuse. I think of these six, they wanted us to take the group of Shin, Noe, Hiromi, and Jun as being the most "unrealistic" at the start in that they were caught up in webs of lies and falsehoods that were keeping them far more chained than most "real people" and indeed more like a fictional drama.

On the other hand, Aiko and Nobuse were meant to be caught up in the most "realistic" web of lies in that their relationship to the other 4 was pretty much something you could easily see in the "real world".

Thus, I'd argue that Aiko and Nobuse's role in the series is to serve as a foil for the four characters (Aiko for Noe and Hiromi, Nobuse for Shin and Jun) in that their web of lies resolves easily and far more realistically than what the other four characters have to go through which again is more like a fictional drama.

This is why I believe Aiko's role is that she is meant to end up "in the middle" as you put it because she realizes that Shin has no feelings for her and is unentangled the most easily, and yet she's there for our benefit to see what a small realistic wavering can do compared to the earthquake that Noe represents.

I'd go one step further to argue that not having Aiko (or Nobuse) present would cripple the show's relativity to real life because those two tie the other characters to a sense of realism in the same way that the execution ties the rest of the show to a realistic portrayal.

I think that by the end, Shin and Jun, and Noe and Hiromi manage to become unentangled from their unrealistic drama and join their respective foils Nobuse and Aiko as complete and real characters (or that this is what was intended and possibly was a bit of a jump at the end).

This is why I see Aiko and Nobuse as being as integral to True Tears as the other 4. Without them, we wouldn't be able to see how far off track those 4 are, and they finally manage to join Aiko and Nobuse after completing the journey and shedding their layers of webs of deceit. Without Aiko, we wouldn't have a realistically portrayed female in the series to really shine the light on what Hiromi and Noe are and have become by the end.

All of this is why I believe that the characterization was superb, since I really see every character as serving a purpose in allowing us to view in context what the 6 characters are doing as well as relative to our own situations through Aiko and Nobuse.

Last edited by vio5555; 2008-03-31 at 02:03.
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Old 2008-03-31, 01:59   Link #228
Ascaloth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vio5555 View Post
I'm going to start off with the premise that the writers intended for us to really understand 6 characters: Shin, Noe, Hiromi, Jun, Aiko and Nobuse. I think of these six, they wanted us to take the group of Shin, Noe, Hiromi, and Jun as being the most "unrealistic" at the start in that they were caught up in webs of lies and falsehoods that were keeping them far more chained than most "real people" and indeed more like a fictional drama.

On the other hand, Aiko and Nobuse were meant to be caught up in the most "realistic" web of lies in that their relationship to the other 4 was pretty much something you could easily see in the "real world".

Thus, I'd argue that Aiko and Nobuse's role in the series is to serve as a foil for the four characters (Aiko for Noe and Hiromi, Nobuse for Shin and Jun) in that their web of lies resolves easily and far more realistically than what the other four characters have to go through which again is more like a fictional drama.

This is why I believe Aiko's role is that she is meant to end up "in the middle" as you put it because she realizes that Shin has no feelings for her and is unentangled the most easily, and yet she's there for our benefit to see what a small realistic wavering can do compared to the earthquake that Noe represents.

I'd go one step further to argue that not having Aiko (or Nobuse) present would cripple the show's relativity to real life because those two tie the other characters to a sense of realism in the same way that the execution ties the rest of the show to a realistic portrayal.

I think that by the end, Shin and Jun, and Noe and Hiromi manage to become unentangled from their unrealistic drama and join their respective foils Nobuse and Aiko as complete and real characters (or that this is what was intended and possibly was a bit of a jump at the end).

This is why I see Aiko and Nobuse as being as integral to True Tears as the other 4. Without them, we wouldn't be able to see how far off track those 4 are, and they finally manage to join Aiko and Nobuse after completing the journey.
Fair enough. I like the way you argue your stand, and even though I don't agree with all of it, it does have its points. Cookie for you.
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Old 2008-03-31, 02:06   Link #229
Seravy
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Spoiler for ep13:
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Old 2008-03-31, 02:11   Link #230
Master Chibi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vio5555 View Post
I'm going to start off with the premise that the writers intended for us to really understand 6 characters: Shin, Noe, Hiromi, Jun, Aiko and Nobuse. I think of these six, they wanted us to take the group of Shin, Noe, Hiromi, and Jun as being the most "unrealistic" at the start in that they were caught up in webs of lies and falsehoods that were keeping them far more chained than most "real people" and indeed more like a fictional drama.

On the other hand, Aiko and Nobuse were meant to be caught up in the most "realistic" web of lies in that their relationship to the other 4 was pretty much something you could easily see in the "real world".

Thus, I'd argue that Aiko and Nobuse's role in the series is to serve as a foil for the four characters (Aiko for Noe and Hiromi, Nobuse for Shin and Jun) in that their web of lies resolves easily and far more realistically than what the other four characters have to go through which again is more like a fictional drama.

This is why I believe Aiko's role is that she is meant to end up "in the middle" as you put it because she realizes that Shin has no feelings for her and is unentangled the most easily, and yet she's there for our benefit to see what a small realistic wavering can do compared to the earthquake that Noe represents.

I'd go one step further to argue that not having Aiko (or Nobuse) present would cripple the show's relativity to real life because those two tie the other characters to a sense of realism in the same way that the execution ties the rest of the show to a realistic portrayal.

I think that by the end, Shin and Jun, and Noe and Hiromi manage to become unentangled from their unrealistic drama and join their respective foils Nobuse and Aiko as complete and real characters (or that this is what was intended and possibly was a bit of a jump at the end).

This is why I see Aiko and Nobuse as being as integral to True Tears as the other 4. Without them, we wouldn't be able to see how far off track those 4 are, and they finally manage to join Aiko and Nobuse after completing the journey and shedding their layers of webs of deceit. Without Aiko, we wouldn't have a realistically portrayed female in the series to really shine the light on what Hiromi and Noe are and have become by the end.

All of this is why I believe that the characterization was superb, since I really see every character as serving a purpose in allowing us to view in context what the 6 characters are doing as well as relative to our own situations through Aiko and Nobuse.
I like how you basically called the four main characters a bunch of unrealistic, over dramatic fools, while pointing out that Nobu and Aiko were nothing more than plot devices really.

I agree mind you.

You just happen to make it actually sound like it's a good thing.

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Old 2008-03-31, 02:19   Link #231
Sorrow-K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
I think I've just had a revelation as to why I have been so ambivalent about True Tears.

As most of us would know, there is a genre within the entirety of the anime medium that is classified as "harem". Although the term had often been used to misrepresent certain romance shows in recent times, the most specific definition of its premise is that it's a guy surrounded by a group of girls all chasing him, with the guy unable to choose between all of them until the very end. Apart from the obvious fanservice, the premises in harem anime is often portrayed as a paradise on earth for the spineless male lead.

I think now that True Tears, in a sense, was trying to be ambitious; it was a shot at being an anti-harem. Put simply, it's a series that tries to portray the message that having several ladies pursuing you is not all that it's cracked up to be, that in reality it IS going to hurt you quite badly emotionally. That it will result in grief for all parties, without resorting to anime stereotypes like yandere or Nice Boat. That it will result in grief for yourself, even.

However, I believe that this is where Sorrow-K's observation becomes most apt; True Tears is doing everything right, except the characters. The failure is that Aiko didn't even look like being part of the scene despite supposedly being the third wheel around which things are supposed to revolve. The bigger failure is that Hiromi's angst drowned out the underlying motivations behind that angst. The even bigger failure is that Noe's eccentric manner of dealing with her own angst is also drowning out her underlying motivations underneath the angst.

The biggest failure is that Shinichiro's angst over being torn between the two loves of his life is just not obvious enough. All these failures are why True Tear's theme just flew right over the heads of the significant minority who didn't like this series, and even more so the shippers who are too focused on their favourite girl. To put it simply, True Tears was too subtle for its own good.

It was a nice try, but it needs some real polishing. I think I may just have figured out the axis around the Triple Critique that I'm going to write for True Tears.
Yeah, I think that's part of it. I think, for a series that was essentially about characters, there wasn't enough "microscope" applied to the thought processes that drove the characters, and too much of it was taken as implicitly understood, where that really was just too much to ask, at least for me.

I love the idea of giving conflicted characters the spotlight. But these characters were so confused and conflicted that it was almost impossible for me to gauge (with total confidence) just what they were thinking, who was in their heart at what stage, why they made the decisions they did, etc, etc. Maybe the problem was subtlety. I think a certain amount of subtlety is a good thing, because it shows respect to the audience, but like all things, it's very easy to go too far and go from merely being subtle to being a poor storyteller. As far as this anime was concerned, the characterization fell down because it was followed by these constant pleas for sympathy. I mean, sure, the characters were interesting because they were so confused and riddled with angst, but were they sympathetic? I wouldn't say so. The impersonal approach to characterization that True Tears took is fine, but don't follow it up with pleas for sympathy and attempts at moving drama. Moving drama requires the audience to make an emotional investment in the characters else it falls on its face, and I couldn't find a reason to make that investment with these characters.

I think this would have been great as a character analysis, but as a character-driven drama... too impersonal. Yes, I don't disagree that the "too subtle" argument is apt as well. It's certainly part of it.

On the shippers note, to put it as tactfully as possible, I question whether shippers understand this anime any better than I do.
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Old 2008-03-31, 02:59   Link #232
vio5555
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@ Master Chibi

Well, I had mixed feelings after episode 12 (as anyone can see in the episode 12 thread) about Shin and where he was going, but I do think that the resolution answered what I wanted answered.

I suppose I'm probably closest to an "ends justify the means" kind of person, but I do think that the overdramatic presentation did work in some sense to get me to really appreciate the purpose of the series in understanding the emotions Shin, Noe, Hiromi, and Jun go through as the triangle finally resolves.

I do understand Ascaloth's point though that "All these failures are why True Tear's theme just flew right over the heads of the significant minority who didn't like this series, and even more so the shippers who are too focused on their favourite girl."

In some sense I do think True Tears probably meant more for some people who analyzed it a lot more deeply and objectively than most who will simply take it as another competitive harem ripe for shipping, since it did try to be more than just that.

I think Sorrow-K also nails the problem head on as others have with the idea that perhaps True Tears was too subtle.

We had these massive unresolvable debates in these threads about all of the possible interpretations of the chickens at the ends of episodes 10, 11, and 12, but now no one really knows what the ending of all that was.

Compounding that is the fact that the picturebook and chickens were supposed to show Shin's feelings leaning towards Noe, and only the Noe shippers (with a few notable additions) were arguing that case. And Shin's behavior at times was an enigma in that a good portion of the fanbase had no idea what Shin's actual feelings were for Noe until episode 13 which I do agree is a negative overall. I think some kind of confirmation of his feelings for Noe immediately after episode 9/10 when he confirmed his feelings for Hiromi would have given us a much better picture of what his feelings were and how he was wavering.

Instead we had to piece the whole thing together after the series which is in some sense less satisfying than absorbing and at least being able to know what is going on during each episode.

Last edited by vio5555; 2008-03-31 at 03:24.
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Old 2008-03-31, 03:09   Link #233
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Good ending. 8/10 I'm not going to preach on this thread though.
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Old 2008-03-31, 03:37   Link #234
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great ending, very good dialogue, it s been a while since i was captivated by a romance anime (last was KGNE).
the only thing i didnt really like is the fact that the aiko/nobuse pairing made me feel like it was forced, everything seems to be going too smoothly. i dont know how to word it but i think that the relation between the 2 of them should be friendship instead of romance. it may come from my past experiences but there are things that prevent any possible romance once you cross a line, being friends again seems acceptable but not romance.

it was expected to see the noe fan rage, or claim they are happy cause shin didnt deserve her blah blah blah, so much hate/denial. if it had been a noe ending the same would have happen with the hiromi fans.
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Old 2008-03-31, 03:45   Link #235
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I'm having so much fun reading the comments -- it only shows how many people have been affected by the show. Whether they be Noe fans, Hiromi fans or Ai fans.

IMHO, the fact that there are shippers in this anime (and such a loyal lot they are) indicates that the characters resonated with the viewers on a personal level. Perhaps there just wasn't enough airtime to go into the nitty gritty details of each character and at the same time keep the main plot and subplots rolling .

I've been an anime fan since forever, and make it a point to watch all the animes I can get my paws on I have to say tho its been a long time since an anime like true tears really moved me. Is it nostalgia perhaps? I rather doubt I'd forget the character of Noe anytime soon. I've even made AMV homages to Noe, a definite first for me.

In the end, though the fact that Shin didn't choose Noe disappointed me, I echo the idea propounded by other posters that Noe and Shin are catalysts to help the other take off.

I wish tho, they could at least keep their friendship intact. But I don't think Hiromi would stand for it and Shin's heart might start wavering again. No one can deny that Shin and Noe have a special relationship. Their souls were calling to each other even before they met. Remember Shin had a vision of Noe even before he met her, and that first meeting they had with Shin gazing awestruck at Noe glowing golden from the sunlight behind her -- simply beautiful But again, I guess not all soulmates become lovers.
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Old 2008-03-31, 04:18   Link #236
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Subtlely. I think that's exactly what the writers want to do. They want to keep people guessing what's going on with the character until the very end. People might hate or love it, but the fact that it made them stick with the story till the end is what matters. If you ask me, I think it was one of the strongest characteristic of the show. Subtlety.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vio5555
We had these massive unresolvable debates in these threads about all of the possible interpretations of the chickens at the ends of episodes 10, 11, and 12, but now no one really knows what the ending of all that was.
It's kind of ironic how we're all focused about the symbolisms of the chicken when they didn't really tell us a proper interpretation of the scenes. I thought they would but maybe they thought it was so straightforward. As it stands, I'm just going to go with Raigomaru -> Shin and Jibeta -> Noe (from ep 12). When Noe said that she'd just figure out what happened to Raigomaru after he flew, she probably was referring to Shinichiro's progress from thereon. In the end, the chicken metaphors he drew in the picturebook stayed true to what Noe wanted him to be. Always looking at the sky. The airplane Shin was drawing during class showed he still had that 'spirit' of flight in him. It was a nice resolution.

I finally watched the subbed version, so I have more to say now.

Though Shin stayed with Hiromi in the end, the girl who Shin opened up to was actually Noe. She had such a huge impact on him and he admitted that. As if that's bad enough, he even admitted that despite his current convictions (he loved Hiromi from the get go) his heart "wavers" whenever he looks at Noe. Noe's my fave so it amused me to watch Shinichiro "waver" and suffer, but from Hiromi's standpoint, that's something that can potentially drive her to cut off Noe's face from the yearbook. And surprisingly, I would empathize with her lol The setting actually looked like Hiromi is the wife and the homewrecker is Noe. Shinichiro did the right thing when he let Noe go. It wouldn't be fair to Hiromi. Noe's better off without Shin, and I guess Hiromi finally proved herself worthy in this episode.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post

I punched Hiromi on my screen.
L.O.L!

Last edited by ani_d; 2008-03-31 at 04:35.
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Old 2008-03-31, 04:39   Link #237
Liddo-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I punched Hiromi on my screen.
So violent. o.o!
Anyway if they were real people, Shin would punch you back for sure - just kidding.
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Old 2008-03-31, 05:16   Link #238
golthin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D a m i e n View Post
great ending, very good dialogue, it s been a while since i was captivated by a romance anime (last was KGNE).
the only thing i didnt really like is the fact that the aiko/nobuse pairing made me feel like it was forced, everything seems to be going too smoothly. i dont know how to word it but i think that the relation between the 2 of them should be friendship instead of romance.
No, it is not forced. The reason that they don't tell us whether they are a couple or not is intentional. They are basically letting both sides (the one that want them together and the one that don't ) make their own judgement. Their relationship is not forced because they are friends, the only thing we can be SURE is that Aiko is finally looking at nobuse the same way she used to look at Shin by her reaction when he was waiting for her at the front of the store. The difference is that when they were a couple they weren't good friends, now they are good friends and love can come out of it. That is the message that the writers and directors want to give us, nothing more and nothing less, that is why they left it ambiguous. I know many people call it a victory for Nobuse, but no where in concrete word is said that they are back together as a couple. Until we see Nobuse with Aiko's hand made sweater, we can't call it a done deal. I am sure it will happen sooner or later!
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Old 2008-03-31, 06:45   Link #239
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I'm not sure about how much realistic character development we can expect from a romance stories. Real relationships don't often strike me as being very romantic. That's why we like indulging in fantasies after all.

If I were to hazard a guess, Hiromi represents a kind of Japanese "ideal", ie, an athletic, conscientious, self-sacrificing woman, while Noe represents the spontaneous genius, full of zeal and inspiration but somewhat prickly at the same time. Speaking for myself, I would naturally gravitate to someone like Hiromi, but I know I'd have lots of fun hanging out with someone like Noe. Noe would make a great friend, but I tend to think that Hiromi makes the better wife.

I'd say, if such a situation actually occured to me in real life, it would be hard for me to make a choice. So, spare a thought for poor Shinichiro, eh?
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Old 2008-03-31, 07:36   Link #240
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Did anyone eles burst out laughing when Shin starting crying and singing the cockroach song?or was it just me. I just couldnt help it i know it was suppose to be a serious part but I couldnt hold back my laughter.
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