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Old 2004-04-02, 14:55   Link #21
emessen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a_nevels666
I haven't read all of the manga, but personally I find Souichiro about the least interesting character in the manga. And you can have a story arc that doesn't have all the main characters, lots of other manga do it.
and there in lies a problem with that 2 volume flashback..

it could have been shorter... more condensed and therefore could have
left more room for ACTUAL story development

it's good to know the past and all... but come on... theres no excitement
in flashbacks cuz all the characters who are there in the current story come
through it
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Old 2004-04-02, 15:01   Link #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emessen
backstory was weak because it was too long...

that's logical... think about it... if they spend too much time on
one story... it starts to drag heavily... and isnt souichiro a main
character? how could he be left out of the manga for the span
of two volumes? they couldnt intertupt the flashback a few times
to show us what a main character was doing?

the back story could have been shorter and had much more impact
Humm, actually the only thing that really makes this series differ from alot of other fanservice anime is the amount of backstory it has.

There is excitment in wanting to know why some people are the way they are IMO.

To me it's interesting to see an anime that doesn't really follow one character... an anime that has no "main characters" rather a bunch of people with their own motives.

Also I find some of the "side" characters very interesting like "Double Impact" and Shin Natsume... (can't really remember their names too well).

It's not going to be the best anime in the world for sure, but I believe it's going to be very worthy of viewing. I suggest checking out a few more episodes before passing your final judgement. You might be missing out.
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Old 2004-04-02, 15:06   Link #23
emessen
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never said i wouldnt watch it... the animation during fight scenes is
good enough, and character designs are nice to look at... i just stated
my qualms about the manga's so called "deep story"

i have my problems with it... but ill watch it

but if it's going to follow the manga exactly... i dont see a point in doing so
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Old 2004-04-02, 15:13   Link #24
brightman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emessen
backstory was weak because it was too long...

that's logical... think about it... if they spend too much time on
one story... it starts to drag heavily... and isnt souichiro a main
character? how could he be left out of the manga for the span
of two volumes? they couldnt intertupt the flashback a few times
to show us what a main character was doing?

the back story could have been shorter and had much more impact
Like the mangaka himself said, this manga focuses on ALL the characters. Souchirou and Bob might be *recognized* as the main characters but the others are just as important as they are. So it really doesn't matter at all.

As for what the main characters were doing
Spoiler:


And them spending too much time on one story? What, is a manga supposed to have more than one story?
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Old 2004-04-02, 16:02   Link #25
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Old 2004-04-02, 19:29   Link #26
emessen
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how does the past DEVELOP anything???

it just explains why the characters act the way they do NOW
my problem isnt with the backstory... just that it was too freaking long
think about it this way... if tenjo tenge is a 26 episode anime... the flashback
would take up 3 or 4 episodes... THREE TO FOUR... that's TOO much out of
the series... like WOLF's RAIN recap episodes that were shown back to back

a backstory is all well and good... but it doesnt need to drag on for so long...

it DEVELOPS nothing... just explains things... and that does not need to take SO LONG
theres a HUGE difference in explaining motives, and developing a story... the story goes on
regardless of what happened int he past... the past just explains motivation... but
it doesnt change what characters are like NOW, because it cant... since it made them who
they are, does that make sense?

Quote:
Like the mangaka himself said, this manga focuses on ALL the characters. Souchirou and Bob might be *recognized* as the main characters but the others are just as important as they are. So it really doesn't matter at all.
my response to that is as follows...

the manga/anime has no MAIN focus... if you spend too much time trying to flesh out
all characters, you ultimately spread your resources too thin and cut back on the
ADVANCEMENT of the PLOT... not to say tenjo tenge has no plot... but it's not much of one

Quote:
And them spending too much time on one story? What, is a manga supposed to have more than one story?
what's that supposed to mean? so what are you trying to say? that manga's are only
supposed to have one story?

a manga is supposed to have more than one story... apparently tenjo tenge does
doesnt it? if it's got a back story and a current story... name me one manga that has one
continuous fluid story that has only one villian, only one problem, and only one story arc


agn i'd just like to say...

my problem does NOT lie with the backstory itself... just it's absurdly long length
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Old 2004-04-02, 19:53   Link #27
brightman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emessen
how does the past DEVELOP anything???

it just explains why the characters act the way they do NOW
my problem isnt with the backstory... just that it was too freaking long
think about it this way... if tenjo tenge is a 26 episode anime... the flashback
would take up 3 or 4 episodes... THREE TO FOUR... that's TOO much out of
the series... like WOLF's RAIN recap episodes that were shown back to back

a backstory is all well and good... but it doesnt need to drag on for so long...

it DEVELOPS nothing... just explains things... and that does not need to take SO LONG
theres a HUGE difference in explaining motives, and developing a story... the story goes on
regardless of what happened int he past... the past just explains motivation... but
it doesnt change what characters are like NOW, because it cant... since it made them who
they are, does that make sense?



my response to that is as follows...

the manga/anime has no MAIN focus... if you spend too much time trying to flesh out
all characters, you ultimately spread your resources too thin and cut back on the
ADVANCEMENT of the PLOT... not to say tenjo tenge has no plot... but it's not much of one



what's that supposed to mean? so what are you trying to say? that manga's are only
supposed to have one story?

a manga is supposed to have more than one story... apparently tenjo tenge does
doesnt it? if it's got a back story and a current story... name me one manga that has one
continuous fluid story that has only one villian, only one problem, and only one story arc


agn i'd just like to say...

my problem does NOT lie with the backstory itself... just it's absurdly long length

OK... I still don't understand what your problem with the backstory is (and I'm sure no one else does). It's like a prelude to the story, only placed in the middle of the story once you get to know the characters a bit. This type is story happens frequently in storytelling. 3~4 episodes is by no means a lot, not at all (if you really think so then you gotta watch more anime). It's NOTHING like Wolf's Rain because it doesn't recap, it expands the story.

As for the stories bit. Manga SHOULD be one coherent story with multiple story arcs (some aren't and are made of a lot of shorts stories but this one certainly isn't). So the backstory is pretty much one story ARC, not a whole story. And the time they spent on this arc is extremely reasonable compared to the other story arcs. So what's wrong with that?

As for the lack of focus, I don't see why that is either. The story has been revolving around the theme of those with the special powers. Both the backstory and the main story revolve around this theme. The backstory deals with the past and how the previous user of the Dragon Eye lost it all, so that we will know a bit of what the current user (Aya) might go though. There's nothing wrong with that. Of course, the story does move fairly slowly, but its interesting and apparently so far you're the only one who doesn't agree.
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Old 2004-04-02, 20:09   Link #28
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Tenjo Tenge is really not that much different from Ikkitousen. You have a bunch of morons fighting for absolutely no reason at all, thats all its about. Whats drives TT is the fanservice, the story just goes from one place to the other without resolving anything. You get new enemies on top of old enemies.

I like TT, but not because of the story, i only read it for the fanservice and thats all. I've actually gotten bored of it because its not going anywhere, i don't see any possible conclusions for anything in the manga, it just continues and continues. And the reason most people like it is obviously for the fanservice.


Anyway, as for the first episode. It had one of the worst character designs i've seen. Aya looks like someone slapped her accross the face with the frying pan. They really messed up on the character designs, and judging from the preview for episode 2, it looks like theres going to be shit loads of filler. Which means they're going to skip pretty much everything thats in the manga, make up their own shit, and end the series at 13 episodes.

My first impression after watching the first episode of Ikkitousen was better than this. And thats not saying much...


Check out these screenshots, i don't know what madhouse was thinking when they animated this. This is nothing like Oh! Great's artwork.


http://ee.1asphost.com/Chainuser/TT0.JPG
http://ee.1asphost.com/Chainuser/TT110.JPG
http://ee.1asphost.com/Chainuser/TT120.JPG
http://ee.1asphost.com/Chainuser/TT20.JPG
http://ee.1asphost.com/Chainuser/TT31.JPG
http://ee.1asphost.com/Chainuser/TT40.JPG
http://ee.1asphost.com/Chainuser/TT50.JPG
http://ee.1asphost.com/Chainuser/TT60.JPG
http://ee.1asphost.com/Chainuser/TT70.JPG
http://ee.1asphost.com/Chainuser/TT80.JPG

Look at Aya, she looks like one of the scariest things i've ever seen.
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Old 2004-04-02, 20:11   Link #29
Mephisto03
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The back story IS the show. without it everything in it would be mindless and stupid. Sorry but saying its to long is rediculous. I actually found myself and anyone who doens't complain about story to be more envolved and excited about the back story then the present story. Honestly I can't wait for it in the anime. I which they did the whole season on the back story cause it was so freakin awesome. The way you see the group so lively and develop through time and the problems of the era. Come on, its great. Sorry but your complaining. Is not valid. I just wish the animation was better and they made it back into a serious level story like the manga instead of all this goofy shit.
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Old 2004-04-02, 20:14   Link #30
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First episode was all right. It seemed to be a lot wackier than I remember the opening of the manga being. Animation was really nice at some parts, but occasionally looked really stilted. Maya's voices were pretty well done, Aya's voice was rather bland and annoying, but it fits her character, so meh. I was hoping Bob would have a more interesting voice.

In regards to the "flashback" arc,
Spoiler:
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Old 2004-04-02, 20:14   Link #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mephisto03
The back story IS the show. without it everything in it would be mindless and stupid. Sorry but saying its to long is rediculous. I actually found myself and anyone who doens't complain about story to be more envolved and excited about the back story then the present story. Honestly I can't wait for it in the anime. I which they did the whole season on the back story cause it was so freakin awesome. The way you see the group so lively and develop through time and the problems of the era. Come on, its great. Sorry but your complaining. Is not valid. I just wish the animation was better and they made it back into a serious level story like the manga instead of all this goofy shit.
You can't wait for the back story in the anime? lol. Do you really think the anime will go that far? You'll be lucky if its 26 episodes. Right now it looks like its going to be rather short, and i think its stretching for 13 episodes. In episode 2, they already showed that red head girl, and she didn't appear in the manga until what? volume 4?

They're just going to rush through it and add some filler, don't expect this to be anything like the manga.
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Old 2004-04-02, 20:16   Link #32
Mephisto03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson
Tenjo Tenge is really not that much different from Ikkitousen. You have a bunch of morons fighting for absolutely no reason at all, thats all its about. Whats drives TT is the fanservice, the story just goes from one place to the other without resolving anything. You get new enemies on top of old enemies.

I like TT, but not because of the story, i only read it for the fanservice and thats all. I've actually gotten bored of it because its not going anywhere, i don't see any possible conclusions for anything in the manga, it just continues and continues. And the reason most people like it is obviously for the fanservice.


Anyway, as for the first episode. It had one of the worst character designs i've seen. Aya looks like someone slapped her accross the face with the frying pan. They really messed up on the character designs, and judging from the preview for episode 2, it looks like theres going to be shit loads of filler. Which means they're going to skip pretty much everything thats in the manga, make up their own shit, and end the series at 13 episodes.

My first impression after watching the first episode of Ikkitousen was better than this. And thats not saying much...


Check out these screenshots, i don't know what madhouse was thinking when they animated this. This is nothing like Oh! Great's artwork.


http://ee.1asphost.com/Chainuser/TT0.JPG
http://ee.1asphost.com/Chainuser/TT110.JPG
http://ee.1asphost.com/Chainuser/TT120.JPG
http://ee.1asphost.com/Chainuser/TT20.JPG
http://ee.1asphost.com/Chainuser/TT31.JPG
http://ee.1asphost.com/Chainuser/TT40.JPG
http://ee.1asphost.com/Chainuser/TT50.JPG
http://ee.1asphost.com/Chainuser/TT60.JPG
http://ee.1asphost.com/Chainuser/TT70.JPG
http://ee.1asphost.com/Chainuser/TT80.JPG

Look at Aya, she looks like one of the scariest things i've ever seen.

Whats funny is how tenten came out before Ikkitousen and THAT is more like tenten. I'm sctrictly talking about the story (manga). The fanservice hardly drives the show. When I started reading it it was funny but you soon just get use to it and move on. Its not like i'm going to the next page thinking OHHH MAN WHEN CAN I SEE SOME TITTIES AGAIN!!!!! please........

The drawing of the manga is superb and the story is awesome. if you can't appreciate something for what it is, your lose.
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Old 2004-04-02, 20:21   Link #33
Mephisto03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson
You can't wait for the back story in the anime? lol. Do you really think the anime will go that far? You'll be lucky if its 26 episodes. Right now it looks like its going to be rather short, and i think its stretching for 13 episodes. In episode 2, they already showed that red head girl, and she didn't appear in the manga until what? volume 4?

They're just going to rush through it and add some filler, don't expect this to be anything like the manga.
You know whats funny, the first ep was 2 chapters. The preview showed upto the end of chapter 4. Wow, seems to me there going by 2's. Which if was 26 eps would bring them to chapter 52. And how many chapters have been released? 63....... (subbed) and I actually read the raw of chapter 72. Think about it. either 2 seasons of this or they add some chapters per ep. going back to chapter 52, it'swell past the back story arc. go figure.
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Old 2004-04-02, 20:24   Link #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mephisto03
Whats funny is how tenten came out before Ikkitousen and THAT is more like tenten. I'm sctrictly talking about the story (manga). The fanservice hardly drives the show. When I started reading it it was funny but you soon just get use to it and move on. Its not like i'm going to the next page thinking OHHH MAN WHEN CAN I SEE SOME TITTIES AGAIN!!!!! please........

The drawing of the manga is superb and the story is awesome. if you can't appreciate something for what it is, your lose.
Face it, the story in Ten Ten is not all that great. It was interesting at first but it didn't evolve, its just the same thing over and over again. Guy get stronger and fight strong enemies, thats not a great story.

I agree that the artwork is superb, i'm actually a big fan of Oh! Great's artwork, but the artwork alone doesn't make a manga great. And if you don't think fanservice is what drives it then your crazy. Whenever people mention Ten Ten they talk about the sex scenes and all that crap in it.

And in the latest volume, a lady was kidnapped just so she could be raped by a bunch of guys, oh please, sex scenes and the fanservice is whats making this manga sell.

Naruto, Hunter X Hunter, Yu Yu Hakusho, and pretty much every other fighting manga i've read is 100 times better than Ten Ten, so the only thing TT has to offer is fanservice.

Ikkitousen came after Ten Ten, but what i'm saying is that they are pretty much the same thing, wheather Ikki copied Ten Ten or whatever people might think.

I appreciate the manga for what it is, fanservice. So no, its not my lose.
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Old 2004-04-02, 21:43   Link #35
emessen
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Quote:
I actually found myself and anyone who doens't complain about story to be more envolved and excited about the back story then the present story. Honestly I can't wait for it in the anime.
the fact that you look forward to the backstory more than you look
forward to the actual present story, proves to me... how the plot and
story advandcement has FAILED... you arent supposed to be more
involved int he backstory... it's the story that happens NOW that's supposed
to grab your attention..

but it doesnt... and the reason is because they spent too much time on the backstory when they could have worked on the actual plot to the whole thing

Quote:
You know whats funny, the first ep was 2 chapters. The preview showed upto the end of chapter 4. Wow, seems to me there going by 2's. Which if was 26 eps would bring them to chapter 52. And how many chapters have been released? 63....... (subbed) and I actually read the raw of chapter 72. Think about it. either 2 seasons of this or they add some chapters per ep. going back to chapter 52, it'swell past the back story arc. go figure.
you know whats even more funny?

the fact that you think the anime will encompass the entire manga
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Old 2004-04-02, 23:14   Link #36
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I already see the problem here, which couldn't be avoided. We are comparing the anime to manga, which is somewhat unfair considering the fact that only 1 episode has been shown. True the manga is definately better in the art aspects, but I don't let that deter me from watching the anime.

I just view the anime itself as a totally different part of Tenjo Tenge. Naturally, when any anime is compared to the manga, of course the manga will be better around 70% of the time. What I think we should do is to watch the anime unfold before making a sound judgement on it. Who knows, it may surprise all of us. As long as we keep making the comparisons, then you can't enjoy the anime and there's no point of watching it if you're going to bitch about every little detail that they left out from the manga or what not. I was guilt of that at the beginning, but I am going to give this a chance.

Now I am going to enjoy this and see where it goes. =)
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Old 2004-04-03, 00:32   Link #37
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What's wrong with having a good backstory if you just look at it as one of the other arching plots of the book? Don't think of it as background, because if they're actively narrating it then it's foreground, isn't it? It's only very annoying if it cuts into a very exciting part of the current plot playing - and doesn't fit in well (unlike for example in Rurouni Kenshin where the "backstory" was cut into the Jinchuu arc, but it cut in nicely and made things that happened after that more understandable.). But then it's not just limited to backstory. ANYTHING that cuts into stuff badly is bad. Like for example you throw in another arc altogether (that is not backstory).
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Old 2004-04-03, 00:54   Link #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACE2003
I already see the problem here, which couldn't be avoided. We are comparing the anime to manga, which is somewhat unfair considering the fact that only 1 episode has been shown. True the manga is definately better in the art aspects, but I don't let that deter me from watching the anime.

I just view the anime itself as a totally different part of Tenjo Tenge. Naturally, when any anime is compared to the manga, of course the manga will be better around 70% of the time. What I think we should do is to watch the anime unfold before making a sound judgement on it. Who knows, it may surprise all of us. As long as we keep making the comparisons, then you can't enjoy the anime and there's no point of watching it if you're going to bitch about every little detail that they left out from the manga or what not. I was guilt of that at the beginning, but I am going to give this a chance.

Now I am going to enjoy this and see where it goes. =)
The point is that the story in the manga isn't that great to begin with. The whole reason why its popular is because of the fanservice, so its easy to make judgements on the anime seeing as how weak the plot in the manga is.

I love the artwork in the manga but frankly i got tired of the weak story, i know i will be getting that same story in the anime *or even worst* so thats why i'm judging the anime already, theres no way it will be better, it could only be worst.
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Old 2004-04-03, 01:25   Link #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson
The point is that the story in the manga isn't that great to begin with. The whole reason why its popular is because of the fanservice, so its easy to make judgements on the anime seeing as how weak the plot in the manga is.

I love the artwork in the manga but frankly i got tired of the weak story, i know i will be getting that same story in the anime *or even worst* so thats why i'm judging the anime already, theres no way it will be better, it could only be worst.

Well then, my question to you with all the negativity you are spouting out, don't tell me you're going to continue to watch the anime? I hope not after reading what you said. Like I said, let's wait until more episodes are show to make a "complete" judgement on it. I believe that it isn't just the fanservice otherwise it would be another "Ikkitousen" as some people have pointed out here. What Ikkitousen doesn't have is a good story backing up the fanservice which Tenjo Tenge has. For christ sakes, Tenjo Tenge is still a "young" manga with only over 70 chapters to date. I didn't think it wouldn't turn out this bad, as most people were expecting to see Tenjo Tenge. Give the manga some time to mature some more and you maybe surprised.
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Old 2004-04-03, 01:37   Link #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson
The point is that the story in the manga isn't that great to begin with. The whole reason why its popular is because of the fanservice, so its easy to make judgements on the anime seeing as how weak the plot in the manga is.
Well that's your opinion, no need to keep pushing it in everyone's faces.

Quote:
I love the artwork in the manga but frankly i got tired of the weak story, i know i will be getting that same story in the anime *or even worst* so thats why i'm judging the anime already, theres no way it will be better, it could only be worst.
And HOW do you know that for sure? Care to prove that assumption?
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