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Old 2008-04-05, 22:30   Link #461
Sterling01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Fact is: the funeral trip DID triggered some symptoms for Keiichi. Obviously it wasn't exactly that severe, but enough to make him hear Hanyuu.
Actually it's stated in the pieces that his leaving Hinamizawa for the funeral caused the outbrake

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piece #44
In the few days that he had to leave Hinamizawa for a relative's funeral.
...It's tragic that he had an outbreak during that period, but I think it was something that he needed as the first step towards learning what's important.
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Old 2008-04-05, 23:05   Link #462
ganbaru
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Sorry Sterling01 but I don't see any connection explanation in the piece 44.
It only said than his outbreak ( after the funeral) is a step toward the Keiichi than we will see in Tsumihoroboshi-hen and later
By the way, I did not understand that bart very well, but in Miotsukushi-hen, Keiichi did talk to Rika about the time he leave Hinamizawa for the funeral, or am I mistaken ?
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Old 2008-04-06, 11:30   Link #463
Rika_Chama
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it could be that when K1 went to the funeral there was some rumours about him shooting that girl so he was stressed and stress+going out of hinamizawa = outbreak?
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Old 2008-04-06, 12:50   Link #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rika_Chama View Post
it could be that when K1 went to the funeral there was some rumours about him shooting that girl so he was stressed and stress+going out of hinamizawa = outbreak?
Unfortunately theres no way of telling that the funeral caused K1 stress prior to the events of Onikakushi. The only thing that was revealed about the funeral was that it was for a relative.

I don't think there would be any rumors circulating that K1 had commited a series of crimes where he targeted young girls. Due to the juvinile law system, the name of the culprit is not allowed to be revealed to the victims and the public. Also , K1's father payed a huge sum of money to settle the issue with the court. So it would seem unlikely that he was stressed out about rumors while out of hinamizawa.
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Old 2008-04-06, 13:00   Link #465
Sterling01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Sorry Sterling01 but I don't see any connection explanation in the piece 44.
It only said than his outbreak ( after the funeral) is a step toward the Keiichi than we will see in Tsumihoroboshi-hen and later
By the way, I did not understand that bart very well, but in Miotsukushi-hen, Keiichi did talk to Rika about the time he leave Hinamizawa for the funeral, or am I mistaken ?
The piece says that while he was away from Hinamizawa he had an outbrake
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Old 2008-04-06, 22:23   Link #466
whiteferrero
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why did he get an outbreak if he wasn't stressed? i'm pretty sure you guys debunked the theory that moving out of hinamizawa causes outbreaks.........
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Old 2008-04-06, 23:00   Link #467
Rias
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I think it works like this:
What it means by the "outbreak" is the initial level increase... leaving Hinamizawa would definitely increase the syndrome level. However, as we can see that leaving Hinamizawa itself doesn't lead/spiral straight into L5. It needs something that makes a person emotionally unstable in order to increase the level (or by H-series shots). Rena was doing fine before she learned about Akihito, and nothing was wrong with Keiichi for the first few days of Onikakushi-hen.

Now let's see if we can find out how bad Keiichi is doing in Onikakushi-hen becuase of going to the funeral. In short, it's less than L3 since he can't hear footsteps until after he talked to Oishi (I can't remember exactly when, but it's not in the beginning for sure). Of course, one can argue that Hanyuu wasn't around or he wasn't paying attention, so let's look at it from another way: in the beginning, Keiichi dreams/hears someone apologizing over and over. There's two popular choice as to who the person is. Hanyuu because she feels bad about things in the past (such as Mingoroshi-hen)/events that are about to occur, and Rena from loop memory of the scene in the rain. Let's say that person is Hanyuu. The only person that has heard Hanyu talk, becuase of the syndrome is Rena; she was in Ibaraki at that time.(putting aside the possiblity that she might just be hallucinating.) We know that Keiichi is definitely NOT L4/5 like Rena was in Ibaraki in the beginning of the story, so even if the person is Hanyu, we know that Keiichi didn't hear her because of his level of syndrome.
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Old 2008-04-07, 08:08   Link #468
ganbaru
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For the dream when Keiichi come back to Hinamizawa I would cast my vote to the loop memory from a early ''himamizawa''.
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Old 2008-04-09, 16:27   Link #469
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I don't think just "leaving" Hinamizawa triggers an outbreak. As already established, a great amount of stress is required to trigger an increase in the Hinamizawa Syndrome. K1 was far from a cheerful person before he came to Hinamizawa. What I'm thinking is when he attended the funeral of a relative, the city reminded him of his past. Add to the fact that his friends aren't there. A funeral isn't exactly a cheerful occassion either. Either way, you have to think that K1's visit to his hometown in itself trigerred the outbreak.

Let's assume once you go into Hinamizawa, you'll automatically go into L1. Once you go under a great stress, it'll be easy for you to go into L2. L2 by itself, looks not that dangerous, but you're practically in a gullible state. Tomitake's timing wasn't exactly the best when they met at the dump site. Add Rena's and Mion's secrecy to that, and then Takano's story. Ooishi is the final nail in the coffin, which trigerred K1's downward spiral to madness. If the initial stress didn't happen, I don't believe K1 would develop his Hinamizawa syndrome.
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Old 2008-04-09, 20:26   Link #470
ganbaru
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for me , the best argument against the ''leaving hinamizawa will be a trigger something"' theorie are Satoshi and Satoko. I did not read anywere than eather of the Houjou sibbling did leave Hinamizawa, but both did go L5.
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Old 2008-04-10, 18:10   Link #471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
for me , the best argument against the ''leaving hinamizawa will be a trigger something"' theorie are Satoshi and Satoko. I did not read anywere than eather of the Houjou sibbling did leave Hinamizawa, but both did go L5.
Those two didn't even need to leave Hinamizawa. They were under constant stress for quite a long time.
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Old 2008-04-10, 18:14   Link #472
ganbaru
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I know, but all the talk about how much important leaving Hinamizawa seem silly to me .
Leaving Hinamizawa may weekening any individual, but it is not a major element.
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Old 2008-04-10, 19:12   Link #473
Sonozaki Futagotachi
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But they did leave Hinamizawa... during Watanagashi when their parents took them to the nature park, and fell(?) into the river. Wasn't there an L5 outbreak on Satoko's part then?

Mion (Sonozaki Futagotachi)
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Old 2008-04-10, 19:43   Link #474
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Satoshi wasn't with them
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Old 2008-04-11, 00:00   Link #475
Christen
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Leaving Hinamizawa is not a trigger to increase the disease's level. If anyone here read Onisarashi-hen, Natsumi's family was living quite a healthy life away from Hinamizawa.

Spoiler for And then...:


What increases the level of the disease is stress. In K1's case, it's because his hometown is connected to his past. If he were to leave for some other place, I don't think he'll have an outbreak. For Rena, it's the issues with her mother and the incident at her school. Satoko was under constant stress due to her previous fathers maltreating her. Satoshi's case was because of his "duties" as a brother (and he never left Hinamizawa in any case). Shion was because of Satoshi's.

You might also think that Shion already developed L2 when she was at the dorm school (?). That I can't speak about much.
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Old 2008-04-11, 04:12   Link #476
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Yeah, but there's always in people's minds that if they leave the village, bad things will happen. Which is stressful. Which can lead to an outbreak.
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Old 2008-04-11, 09:21   Link #477
Rias
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There's always the convinent place in the story for the villagers to "leave Hinamizawa". It's called Okinomiya.

Hinamizawa Syndrome is seen as a disease that is like an extreme form of home-sickness. Some people gets home sick when they leave the place they were born and grew up in; some are fine living away for the rest of their lives. However, when under lots of stress and what not, those who were fine might become home-sick all of a sudden (as depicted in the Marco Polo Bridge incident , and that's when Hinamizawa Syndrome kicks in (regardless if you are in the village or not)

They have mentioned that many people left the village and were fine. We see Rena's mother as an example.
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Old 2008-04-11, 16:51   Link #478
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Just wondering, but did Natsumi's grandmother actually drown puppies, or did Natsumi just imagine that happening from Hin. Syndrome?
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Old 2008-04-11, 17:59   Link #479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kets View Post
Just wondering, but did Natsumi's grandmother actually drown puppies, or did Natsumi just imagine that happening from Hin. Syndrome?
Good question, and as of yet, I don't think it has been specifically answered. However, it seems to me that killing her grandmother was around the first fullout HS incident for her. Perhaps the question to ask is would Natsumi have thought of that particular piece of magic herself? I.e. would a high school girl have heard of using animals to recieve a curse in place of a human?
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Old 2008-04-11, 18:07   Link #480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kets View Post
Just wondering, but did Natsumi's grandmother actually drown puppies, or did Natsumi just imagine that happening from Hin. Syndrome?
My guess is that it really happened, though of course we can't be sure. She probably was below L5 at that point and had yet to act violently, but then again Keiichi hallucinated quite a bit before he became homicidal.
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