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Old 2008-04-11, 03:35   Link #101
mikeabundo
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Originally Posted by Marioshinobi View Post
He made use of her, having wished to at least make her dream somewhat true. Free Japan using his method.
Do you honestly believe Lulu gave a damn about Japan's freedom in season one? He just wanted to throw it at his daddy! Freeing Japan was merely a means to vent his Oedipal rage.
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Old 2008-04-11, 03:51   Link #102
Ridwan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeabundo View Post
Do you honestly believe Lulu gave a damn about Japan's freedom in season one? He just wanted to throw it at his daddy! Freeing Japan was merely a means to vent his Oedipal rage.
Meh....

Free Japan is NECESSARY for his ultimate goal to whack his daddy's ass ! For that, he needs an army, a faction, a state, and ultimately the whole political power ! Yes, maybe Japan is only a tool for him, but even tools may need to be cherished and taken care well if you want to use it optimally
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Old 2008-04-11, 04:12   Link #103
Marioshinobi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeabundo View Post
Do you honestly believe Lulu gave a damn about Japan's freedom in season one? He just wanted to throw it at his daddy! Freeing Japan was merely a means to vent his Oedipal rage.
I Do.

What do you think was the damn point of him being with Suzaku as a child? Seeing the bodies? Telling the boy he was going to Crush Brittania.

It's killing two birds with one stone.

Free Japan, Kill Brittania. He obviously doesn't give a shit about his Father, He wants to know how his mother's killer is first before Bringing down Papa.
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Old 2008-04-11, 04:18   Link #104
Stretch5920
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He didn't even think about freeing Japan until after he lost to Cornelia. Because he couldn't do it on his own and needed an army.
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Old 2008-04-11, 04:20   Link #105
Ridwan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marioshinobi View Post
I Do.

What do you think was the damn point of him being with Suzaku as a child? Seeing the bodies? Telling the boy he was going to Crush Brittania.

It's killing two birds with one stone.

Free Japan, Kill Brittania. He obviously doesn't give a shit about his Father, He wants to know how his mother's killer is first before Bringing down Papa.
Agree wholeheartedly !

That and a Free Japan with him as a leader will going to pave his way to bring down daddy
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Old 2008-04-11, 04:23   Link #106
Ridwan
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Red face

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Originally Posted by Stretch5920 View Post
He didn't even think about freeing Japan until after he lost to Cornelia. Because he couldn't do it on his own and needed an army.
I think that with anything he would have realized it anyway, that he absolutely needs those powers military, political faction, blah blah blah.... for his ultimate goal.
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Old 2008-04-11, 06:06   Link #107
aurr
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I think Japan would be the best place for him and Nunnally live, and so he needs to free it, make it somewhat a kinder place to be.
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Old 2008-04-11, 07:13   Link #108
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It could be taken from another perspective that Lelouch wanted control over Japan to gain the impetus towards meeting his father, taking down Britannia in one fell swoop if he was lucky, as mentioned by Lelouch during the final battle that he would have the chance to negotiate with his father face to face if he won, and geass him into under his control.

Lelouch has two goals: find his mother's killer, next to establish a world whereby Nunnally can live in peacefully. The two goals are not linearly connected but Lelouch could pursuit the first more easily if he achieved the second first. At that time, the closest road towards the latter would be winning the battle for Japan, thereby obtaining the necessary bargaining chip towards meeting his father, and a chance at ending this much quicker and easily.
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Old 2008-04-11, 08:08   Link #109
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What was Lelouch position in the line of succession to the throne? I recall he said someting about being the second in line to the throne in the second episode, but how does that exactly work out when it's fairly clear that a majority of the prince or princess in the show are older than him.
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Old 2008-04-11, 08:34   Link #110
aurr
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Quote:
What was Lelouch position in the line of succession to the throne? I recall he said someting about being the second in line to the throne in the second episode, but how does that exactly work out when it's fairly clear that a majority of the prince or princess in the show are older than him.
IIRC, he was 17th to the trone and Nunnally was 18th.
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Old 2008-04-11, 08:57   Link #111
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Nunnally is currently 87th for the throne now that she's back in Britannia, at least according to Newtype

I'll go right out and say that I remain committed to the idea that Lelouch will fight Britannia the way he's always done, as an organized terrorist/militant body instead of as an actual country, expanding the paramaters of the Order to encompass the world instead of solely focusing on Japan like he did in the previous Season, because that's Lelouch's ultimate goal, the world.
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Old 2008-04-11, 12:11   Link #112
Masterkeyes2
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I would like to say Lelouch probably does give "two-shits" about Japan's freedom because he has said at one point that even with the shitty conditions Japan was the one place he and Nunnally found happiness.

P.S.

87th in line? Wtf I thought that their was 20 children.....
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Old 2008-04-11, 12:15   Link #113
ashlay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterkeyes2 View Post
I would like to say Lelouch probably does give "two-shits" about Japan's freedom because he has said at one point that even with the shitty conditions Japan was the one place he and Nunnally found happiness.

P.S.

87th in line? Wtf I thought that their was 20 children.....
no, he does care about their freedom, even if he tried to justify it to himself as a mere "means to an end" in episode 24's preview.

Giving Japan is at very least part of his atonement for the 200,000 Japanese people who died because of his stupid mistake. But then he's also got a sense of responsibility to his subordinates and in general a hatred of seeing people living on their knees in near to total slavery. Nunnally may be on the top of his list of things important to him, but that doesn't mean that freeing Japan isn't important to him too.
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Old 2008-04-11, 12:26   Link #114
Koshimizu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterkeyes2 View Post
I would like to say Lelouch probably does give "two-shits" about Japan's freedom because he has said at one point that even with the shitty conditions Japan was the one place he and Nunnally found happiness.

P.S.
87th in line? Wtf I thought that their was 20 children.....
Yep. He like Japan pretty much. In Stage8.5 he said "we have found a peaceful life in this foreign country."

Not only the Emperor's children are waiting in line. Other children with royal blood, and maybe the Emperor's siblings are in there.

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Originally Posted by ashlay View Post
no, he does care about their freedom, even if he tried to justify it to himself as a mere "means to an end" in episode 24's preview.

Giving Japan is at very least part of his atonement for the 200,000 Japanese people who died because of his stupid mistake. But then he's also got a sense of responsibility to his subordinates and in general a hatred of seeing people living on their knees in near to total slavery. Nunnally may be on the top of his list of things important to him, but that doesn't mean that freeing Japan isn't important to him too.
Ditto to that.
However I doubt if that many died. 200,000 is the number that "applied" to become Japanese, not the number that actually entered the stadium for the ceremony. Usually a stadium can't hold that many people methinks.
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Old 2008-04-11, 12:39   Link #115
Sute443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterkeyes2 View Post
I would like to say Lelouch probably does give "two-shits" about Japan's freedom because he has said at one point that even with the shitty conditions Japan was the one place he and Nunnally found happiness.

P.S.

87th in line? Wtf I thought that their was 20 children.....
I'm not sure how many children there are, but considering that the Emperor has 108 wives, that number of children seems awfully low.
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Old 2008-04-11, 12:52   Link #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashlay View Post
no, he does care about their freedom, even if he tried to justify it to himself as a mere "means to an end" in episode 24's preview.
A bit of a side note, but most of us haven't really been able to see (or understand) the last two episode previews for season one, for predictable reasons...so it's good to know a little of what he's talking about there.

Quote:
Giving Japan is at very least part of his atonement for the 200,000 Japanese people who died because of his stupid mistake. But then he's also got a sense of responsibility to his subordinates and in general a hatred of seeing people living on their knees in near to total slavery. Nunnally may be on the top of his list of things important to him, but that doesn't mean that freeing Japan isn't important to him too.
It's clearly not his personal priority or ultimate objective, of course, but I do agree that he seems to find Britannia's treatment of Japan and its people to be disgusting and despicable, so now that he has the power to act against it, he'll certainly do so. Even more so, after he has contributed to hurting many innocent Japanese in the process.

In other words, freeing Japan (and technically, I imagine, all other "Areas", if it comes to that, even if only indirectly) is a morally good thing from Lelouch's point of view, even if his own personal mission goes beyond that.
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Old 2008-04-11, 13:43   Link #117
ashlay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusaja View Post
A bit of a side note, but most of us haven't really been able to see (or understand) the last two episode previews for season one, for predictable reasons...so it's good to know a little of what he's talking about there.
um, something like

24:
Ah, that’s right. My atonement is just a way to move forward. Even if my opponent is probably the world’s largest empire, now, there’s no path for me to turn back. Everything is going according to plan. Now is the time to destroy the past!

25:
The Second Imperial Princess Cornelia is finally in my grasp. All that’s left is to expose the criminal who killed mother, if I take Cornelia hostage it’s my victory. And then, for Nunnally’s sake I’ll crush Britannia completely. The one’s who cast us aside, that country!


I kinda wish more people would watch the episode previews, they're really wonderful little bits on Lelouch's overall state of mind at any given time.
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Old 2008-04-11, 13:47   Link #118
fatez
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I've read most of the post about how people compare japan=good and britannia=evil and I agree with most of you that is not the case. However, i want you guys to reconsider the emperor of Britannia being evil. It seems this show is not about good or evil but rather it is about the survival of the fittest. Those in charge will fight to maintain the status quo and those who are oppress will fight for freedom. This in turns will lead to the evolution of the human race. Following this logic, and I assumed the emperor of britannia to understand this, I surmise that it was his plan to find a worthy successor. Therefore, only a theory, he plans for one of his offspring (Lulu) to become his successor. If this was true, the emperor might not be evil but has a different approach on the concept of "tough love." It is kinda like the way the naruto manga is going with itachi and protecting sasuke crap.

Tell me what you guys think about my theory?
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Old 2008-04-11, 15:13   Link #119
Dann of Thursday
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The Emperor's master plan is not to find a succesor. Otherwise a lot of what he is doing would seem rather pointless. The succesor thing is a secondary matter to him.
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Old 2008-04-11, 15:17   Link #120
ashlay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
The Emperor's master plan is not to find a succesor. Otherwise a lot of what he is doing would seem rather pointless. The succesor thing is a secondary matter to him.
Though I think we can all agree it seems relatively likely he's been messing with Lelouch for said secondary plan. >_>
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