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Old 2004-04-05, 12:00   Link #1
jennwenn
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Join Date: Jun 2003
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Brother Dear Brother - Oniisama E

I'm still in shock to find the last four episodes of Brother Dear Brother (Oniisama e) up on Animesuki. I had given up all hope of TechnoGirls finishing it or ever finding copies of them online! Thank you Instrumentality and AnimeSuki! This series is a real gem that unfortunately has about zero licensing potential due to its age (aired in 1991).

Its too bad the first 35 episodes aren't up in digital format as well, more people would check this classic out. I'd be happy to supply them because I do have those episodes in realmedia and low-quality .avi format, but they are rips of the TechnoGirls VHS fansubs (back before divx and digisubbing). They're VERY low-quality and require permission from the fansubbers I assume...Maybe someone could host them if we work it out?

The many fans of Maria-sama ga Miteru should really watch Oniisama e (Brother Dear Brother) since Marimite is heavily influenced by Oniisama e (all-girls' school, sorority woes, bullying, complex relationships, yuri). Brother Dear Brother is directed by Osamu Dezaki (Aim for the Ace!) and based on the manga by Ryoko Ikeda (Rose of Versailles).

Also, if any of you have been watching M.O.E.'s Smash Hit!, when the producer starts the episodes saying in voice-over "Dear Brother..." that is a reference to Oniisama e.

Anyone else as elated as I am?

BDB info here:
http://www.animenfo.com/animetitle,8...r__dear_b.html
http://quixium.com.phtemp.com/technogirls/brother.htm

EDIT- Actually it looks like TechnoGirls are not dead and updated just last month that they are working on the last episodes of BDB. Also, they're putting them on DVD (first 2 fansub volumes out) so my copies are probably negligible.

Last edited by jennwenn; 2004-04-05 at 12:10.
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Old 2004-04-05, 12:20   Link #2
kuru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jennwenn
I'm still in shock to find the last four episodes of Brother Dear Brother (Oniisama e) up on Animesuki. I had given up all hope of TechnoGirls finishing it or ever finding copies of them online! Thank you Instrumentality and AnimeSuki! This series is a real gem that unfortunately has about zero licensing potential due to its age (aired in 1991).
Copies of the Instrumentality release have been circulating for a few months now, but only on tape and we all know that fansubs on tape don't really spread a lot these days. The fansub was originally done to DVD, not tape, but I don't know if they've distributed copies of it.

About the age... it wouldn't be the real factor, as older shows have been licensed. Saint Seiya is much older and have been recently licensed for instance. Main problem is that is the kind of show american companies won't think will sell.

BTW, the series was recently release on DVD in France (as Très Cher Frère):

review: http://www.dvdanime.net/critiqueview..._critique=1077

Those interested can buy it at fnac.com


Quote:
Originally Posted by jennwenn
Its too bad the first 35 episodes aren't up in digital format as well, more people would check this classic out. I'd be happy to supply them because I do have those episodes in realmedia and low-quality .avi format, but they are rips of the TechnoGirls VHS fansubs (back before divx and digisubbing). They're VERY low-quality and require permission from the fansubbers I assume...Maybe someone could host them if we work it out?
Barbara Chambers has started to convert Brother, Dear Brother to DVD format. The volumes already available can be requested here:
http://www.quixium.com/fan/anime_dvdrlist.htm
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Old 2004-04-05, 12:23   Link #3
kuru
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Forget to say that besides the 2 episodes mentioned in AnimeSuki, the last episodes (38&39) are also available on http://lilith.instrumentality.org/
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Old 2004-04-05, 13:47   Link #4
Bullsquat
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I love animes with lesbian undertones. As a guy, I just find them very exciting. So like, where else can I get the rest of the episodes?
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Old 2004-04-05, 13:54   Link #5
a7m4
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I thought I should also post the Technogirls Brother, Dear Brother page, because it has quite a bit of information on the series. Rose of Versailles is my favorite series of all time and I have been really wanting to see Brother, Dear Brother. However, I didn't want to order the tapes until the whole series was finished. It looks like my patience is going to pay off since I will be able to get it all on DVD.

Osamu Dezaki is really an amazing director, and works even better when he is paired with Akio Sugino as the character designer and animation director. Some notable anime they have done are: Brother, Dear Brother, Aim for the Ace, Kasei Yakyoku(which I really hope Technogirls is still planning on subbing), They Were 11, Black Jack OVAs and Movie, and Takarajima (Treasure Island). Dezaki also did an amazing job directing the second half of Rose of Versailles, but Sugino didn't work with him.
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Old 2004-04-05, 13:59   Link #6
Bullsquat
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Wait a sec, this show is not licensed yet you have buy the DVDs from a fansub? I thought that kind of thing is against fansubbing ethics. Excuse my ignorance if that's what it is.
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Old 2004-04-05, 14:11   Link #7
Griffith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullsquat
Wait a sec, this show is not licensed yet you have buy the DVDs from a fansub? I thought that kind of thing is against fansubbing ethics. Excuse my ignorance if that's what it is.
They're only charging for the cost of the tape + postage, they're not making any profit from this. In the early days of fansubbing before digisubs came out, this is how all fansubs were done. It's not unethical at all, really.
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Old 2004-04-05, 14:25   Link #8
jennwenn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffith
They're only charging for the cost of the tape + postage, they're not making any profit from this. In the early days of fansubbing before digisubs came out, this is how all fansubs were done. It's not unethical at all, really.
Well, there's still the "fansubs are all illegal" unethical, but we all know that.

Why don't TechnoGirls put encodes of their subs online if they're going to remaster onto DVDs anyway? As kuru noted, few people buy VHS fansubs anymore. DVDs are probably the same. They could reach a wider audience with online distribution.
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Old 2004-04-05, 14:28   Link #9
jennwenn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a7m4
Osamu Dezaki is really an amazing director, and works even better when he is paired with Akio Sugino as the character designer and animation director. Some notable anime they have done are: Brother, Dear Brother, Aim for the Ace, Kasei Yakyoku(which I really hope Technogirls is still planning on subbing)
I've had my eye on that too. How could anyone not want to see it after that awesome description? Hehe. Its been what 4 years (?) since they announced plans for the project. I hope they still intend to do it too.

Last edited by jennwenn; 2004-04-05 at 15:39.
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Old 2004-04-05, 16:26   Link #10
Iron Monkey
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Quote:
Wait a sec, this show is not licensed yet you have buy the DVDs from a fansub? I thought that kind of thing is against fansubbing ethics. Excuse my ignorance if that's what it is.
Well, in case you didn't know, that's how fansubs originally were distributed. In fact, there was LESS (so called) unethical practices back then, as distributers were able to stop releases once the shows were licensed. It's only since anime has gone digisub that piracy and this unethical code of conduct (from a fansubber's point of view) has run rampant.
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Old 2004-04-05, 17:01   Link #11
a7m4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jennwenn
I've had my eye on that too. How could anyone not want to see it after that awesome description? Hehe. Its been what 4 years (?) since they announced plans for the project. I hope they still intend to do it too.
Mandarake is auctioning off some beautiful Kasei Yakyou right now. They are a perfect example of Sugino's style.
http://ekizo.mandarake.co.jp/auc_e/i...01099130100001
http://ekizo.mandarake.co.jp/auc_e/i...01099120100001
http://ekizo.mandarake.co.jp/auc_e/i...01099110100001
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Old 2004-04-05, 17:39   Link #12
dee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuru

Barbara Chambers has started to convert Brother, Dear Brother to DVD format. The volumes already available can be requested here:
http://www.quixium.com/fan/anime_dvdrlist.htm

Isn't it suppose to be private?
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Old 2004-04-05, 17:57   Link #13
kuru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dee
Isn't it suppose to be private?
Not at all. If you go to the main Technogirls fansub site (whose address has always been public - http://www.technogirls.org/barbara/anime/tapelist.htm), you'll read:

"Recent News: Our Anime-on-DVDR site is open finally. You can go directly to it at www.quixium.com/fan/anime_dvdrlist.htm with the main page at www.quixium.com/fan/. We have begun making DVD versions from all of our early Brother, Dear Brother SVHS master tapes. Also: the final volume of BDB is nearly finished".

Any fan can go to the DVD request page and make a request. The only thing that seems to be private is the last line in the menu in the upper right side level of the DVD request page. If you click in "Shoujo Anime Club Only" you'll be asked a password.
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Old 2004-04-05, 18:20   Link #14
dee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jennwenn
Well, there's still the "fansubs are all illegal" unethical, but we all know that.

Why don't TechnoGirls put encodes of their subs online if they're going to remaster onto DVDs anyway? As kuru noted, few people buy VHS fansubs anymore. DVDs are probably the same. They could reach a wider audience with online distribution.
The Techno Girls were never interested in being popular. They also never stopped fansubbing. They became popular by changing the face of fansubbing by not only providing professional translations and video quality as well. Thus, Ms. Chambers will mostly work with high resolution digital video.

...and since VHS is a rapidly detoriating media, the traditional fansubber has gone DVD. DVD fansubs are popular but the fan base is different.

Last edited by dee; 2004-04-05 at 18:46.
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Old 2004-04-05, 18:27   Link #15
dee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuru
Not at all. If you go to the main Technogirls fansub site (whose address has always been public - http://www.technogirls.org/barbara/anime/tapelist.htm), you'll read:

"Recent News: Our Anime-on-DVDR site is open finally. You can go directly to it at www.quixium.com/fan/anime_dvdrlist.htm with the main page at www.quixium.com/fan/. We have begun making DVD versions from all of our early Brother, Dear Brother SVHS master tapes. Also: the final volume of BDB is nearly finished".

Any fan can go to the DVD request page and make a request. The only thing that seems to be private is the last line in the menu in the upper right side level of the DVD request page. If you click in "Shoujo Anime Club Only" you'll be asked a password.
I'm sorry, I forgot the DVD-R isn't private anymore.
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Old 2004-04-05, 22:18   Link #16
jennwenn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dee
The Techno Girls were never interested in being popular. They also never stopped fansubbing. They became popular by changing the face of fansubbing by not only providing professional translations and video quality as well. Thus, Ms. Chambers will mostly work with high resolution digital video.

...and since VHS is a rapidly detoriating media, the traditional fansubber has gone DVD. DVD fansubs are popular but the fan base is different.
Well I wouldn't necessarily equate using digital encodes with selling out or trying to be popular. I understand that there's a very different audience in these "real" fansubs and the online ones. I suppose the truly dedicated will go out and buy the fansub DVDs, but I've always thought that in the spirit of enlightening others you'd want to reach as many people as possible. And now, that's via online distribution.

Anyway, I won't tell Techno Girls what to do. They do an awesome job and pick up quality titles as it is. I'll have to pick up those DVDs, or maybe I'll shell out for the French DVDs, since my French is...well its passable. (And their Aim for the Ace DVDs too...)
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Old 2004-04-06, 00:51   Link #17
dee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jennwenn
Well I wouldn't necessarily equate using digital encodes with selling out or trying to be popular. I understand that there's a very different audience in these "real" fansubs and the online ones. I suppose the truly dedicated will go out and buy the fansub DVDs, but I've always thought that in the spirit of enlightening others you'd want to reach as many people as possible. And now, that's via online distribution.

Anyway, I won't tell Techno Girls what to do. They do an awesome job and pick up quality titles as it is. I'll have to pick up those DVDs, or maybe I'll shell out for the French DVDs, since my French is...well its passable. (And their Aim for the Ace DVDs too...)

I never said that it was associated with being a selling out or being popular. In this case, their popularity is due to the amount of work that's put in and the titles they choose. I wouldn't say "real" it's just higher quality. I understand what you mean by enlightening, but they've done that. ...with the Shoujo Anime Club, contributions to Fansubs.net (now defunct) and bearing the financial burdens of providing fansubs. I know it sounds elitist, but if you're used to working with high resolution video, you really don't want to lower that standard. I can construe that's the fundamental reason why the Techno Girls have earned the respect, love and their evergrowing fanbase.

Now if you're interested, you should check out Animeminers. It's been a little over a year and I'm still drooling over those DVDs.

Their titles can also be found at the Techno Girls page.

Btw, keep practicing your French!
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Old 2004-04-06, 09:32   Link #18
jennwenn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dee
I never said that it was associated with being a selling out or being popular. In this case, their popularity is due to the amount of work that's put in and the titles they choose. I wouldn't say "real" it's just higher quality. I understand what you mean by enlightening, but they've done that. ...with the Shoujo Anime Club, contributions to Fansubs.net (now defunct) and bearing the financial burdens of providing fansubs. I know it sounds elitist, but if you're used to working with high resolution video, you really don't want to lower that standard. I can construe that's the fundamental reason why the Techno Girls have earned the respect, love and their evergrowing fanbase.
I was drawing from your mention of the word popular, but I see what you mean now. Now that their DVD distribution is open to all, more people can get their fansubs. A DVD fansub is certainly a whole 'nother level.

Quote:
Now if you're interested, you should check out Animeminers. It's been a little over a year and I'm still drooling over those DVDs.
Oooh, I should get those and the Techno Girls DVDs for my anime club.

Quote:
Their titles can also be found at the Techno Girls page.

Btw, keep practicing your French!
Thanks! The French have a great selection of manga and anime that an English-speaking audience doesn't have. (Like Oniisama e! And Rose of Versailles manga!) Its a nice variety.
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Old 2004-04-06, 10:10   Link #19
babbito2k
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dee
I know it sounds elitist, but if you're used to working with high resolution video, you really don't want to lower that standard.
Exactly. Anyone who reads the Technogirls website closely will see that the technical inferiority of compressed digital video is precisely what they find fault with. They spend many hours translating and mastering their shows and are entitled just like any other fansubbing group to their choice of release format.

Making digital captures of the tapes and torrenting them would be contravening their choice in this matter of release format. The tapes of the earlier episodes are not hard to come by; the release of the final 4 episodes is imminent.

A couple of other points:

Technogirls has always taken a position similar to that of Live-eviL, and for a longer period of time. The idea is to fansub older works not likely to be licensed and make them accessible. They have made a name for themselves and several outstanding anime series by doing just this.

For anyone who has not seen any of this series, the last 4 episodes are no place to start! Too much has already taken place.

I also call Instrumentality's ethics into question. I never heard of Instrumentality doing the work to translate and encode the other 35 episodes. Fansubbing groups who jump into the middle of other groups' projects are always frowned upon. I never saw anything to make me think that Technogirls were not working to complete the series. There was no need for the Instrumentality to do this release, at least not in this fashion.
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Old 2004-04-06, 12:38   Link #20
Instrumentality
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babbito2k
For anyone who has not seen any of this series, the last 4 episodes are no place to start! Too much has already taken place.

I also call Instrumentality's ethics into question. I never heard of Instrumentality doing the work to translate and encode the other 35 episodes. Fansubbing groups who jump into the middle of other groups' projects are always frowned upon. I never saw anything to make me think that Technogirls were not working to complete the series. There was no need for the Instrumentality to do this release, at least not in this fashion.

As we have explained elsewhere, the only reason that we subtitled the final four episodes was that our local anime club was showing the Technogirls subs of this series. When they first started, it had been perhaps a year since the Technogirls had released the previous volume; at the time, there was little fear that the anime club's showings would get to the final volume before the Technogirls released it. However, as time went on and there was no word from the Technogirls, a backup plan was needed. Since we have often subtitled things for this club, we volunteered to subtitle the final four episodes if the club's showings got to that point before the Technogirls did. And, indeed, that is what happened.

As soon as people heard that we were subtitling the final four episodes, requests began pouring in. We certainly have nothing against the Technogirls; indeed, we regularly refer people to their site when people ask where to obtain copies of the rest of the series. However, we also feel that refusing to give out copies of these episodes would not be very fair to fans of the series (especially fans who have waited so long -- almost every request email that we get says something along the lines of "I had given up hope of ever seeing these," or "I have waited years to see the end of this series").

As for the claims of jumping into the middle of another group's series... the previous volume came out two years ago. At the time that we released this volume (last November), it seemed to many people that the Technogirls were no longer working on this series. (At the very least, there was no chance of the Technogirls' version being released in time for our anime club to show it without pulling it from their lineup for a while.) Even aside from that, we really don't understand why some people view this as some sort of competition. People have subtitled the same things that we have in the past; sometimes they have even used our scripts, or so we have been told. We are not competing with anyone. All we want to do is make the very best fansubs that we can, in order to share anime with people who would not otherwise be able to enjoy it (either due to the language barrier, or because they simply wouldn't know about a given series).

We have also heard (second-hand, possibly unfounded) rumors that people are upset that we released DivX versions of these episodes. Barbara Chambers of the Technogirls makes no secret of her distaste for such low-bitrate video; and indeed, those who know us personally know that we, too, have avoided "digisub" releases for years. So why did we do this? Yes, we have avoided DivX in general. However, we have actually heard from people over the last year or so who do not even own VCRs anymore; in order to continue with our stated mission of helping to provide quality anime to as many people as possible, we had to turn to DivX-based releases. (We will, of course, continue to release tape-based versions as well, even unto the Ending of the World.)

While we are somewhat on the topic, I might also address our lack of DVD releases. Some people have -- again, allegedly -- claimed that we are intentionally releasing low-quality DivX when we could be releasing DVD copies (as the Technogirls have begun doing). Our mastering is done using uncompressed video. We produce high-bitrate DVDs that we use to create SVHS and VHS copies. We generate the DivX files from the same uncompressed sources, but there is of course a huge and unavoidable quality drop when going from uncompressed NTSC full-frame video to 640x480 MPEG-4 at ~200Kbps. We have no intention of releasing any of our titles on DVD, because, quite simply, the quality of the DVDs is too good. Of course we want to produce the very best quality fansubs that we can; however, if a commercial release were to come out (of any of our titles), we would clearly want people to purchase the legitimate release. We are not in the business of providing cheap alternatives to "the real thing." If we were to release DVD copies, people would have a lot less to gain by buying a commercial release. Our current releases look good (we hope); however, compared to a commercial DVD, a tape or DivX just isn't going to cut it -- and in this case, that is a good thing. Now perhaps Brother, Dear Brother isn't all that likely to be picked up any time soon. In fact, I would say that it is pretty unlikely. But I have said that about things in the past, and I have been wrong. We will not make any special exceptions for this title.

If anyone has any questions about our policies, our outlook, our ethics, or anything else, feel free to email us at fansubs@instrumentality.org. You can post here, too, of course; we will do our best to keep up with the messages here.
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