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Old 2008-04-14, 13:54   Link #221
Airi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRainbowConnection View Post
That's assuming that he still wants to change Britannian ideals from within like he used to. He's screwed up enough right now that I don't even know if he cares about justice and equity for the people anymore.
you're wrong.......he told Lelouch he will change the world from within (episode 2)
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Old 2008-04-14, 14:38   Link #222
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You guys are forgetting that Lelouch could simply end the show by Geassing an unlimited amount of assassins to depose the emperor. If that were the case though, there would be no real premise for the show. If the situation were as simplistic as what you see/face value, there wouldn't really be anything to discuss.
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Old 2008-04-14, 14:43   Link #223
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Originally Posted by Juvyniled View Post
You guys are forgetting that Lelouch could simply end the show by Geassing an unlimited amount of assassins to depose the emperor. If that were the case though, there would be no real premise for the show. If the situation were as simplistic as what you see/face value, there wouldn't really be anything to discuss.
While true, I take that to mean that slaying the Emperor himself is of secondary importance to changing the world, at least to Lelouch. The next guy to the take the thone by default could be even worse. For all we know, Suzaku is now trying to establish himself sufficiently in the upper echelons of power that he can either directly sieze the throne or simply have an overbearing influence on the next person to lead the empire. Again, this would indicate WAY more forethought than he has shown in the entirety of his life, but you never know.
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Old 2008-04-14, 14:47   Link #224
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
^ exactly, that is the reason why Suzaku was kinda ridiculous here:
Why didn't he let Lelouch brainwashing the emperor, so the puppet would change the empire without any bloodshed?

There isn't any good reason not doing so. If he can sell his own friend for his goal, I don't think using the emperor as a puppet to avoid wars etc would be a worse wager.
Suzaku doesn't trust Lelouch. Suzaku thinks that Lelouch is a monster who forced Euphemia to commit a massacre and then murdered her in cold blood when he was done with her, all to advance his opinions. In Suzaku's mind, Lelouch is the very last person on Earth who deserves to be in control of the Empire. And really, who can blame him? Lelouch's only excuse is the feeble, "It was an accident," which, while being true, is so pathetic that Lelouch didn't even try to use it.

According to Wikipedia, Suzaku's plan is to become the Knight of Ones since the Knight of Ones is assigned his own territory to control. Suzaku would choose Area 11 and then try to govern fairly. If Wikipedia is wrong, then Suzaku is still in the perfect position to increase his status. Suzaku has been trusted with the Emperor with knowledge about Geass and the Sword of Akasha that no other high-ranking knight or royal possesses. Suzaku could betray the Emperor with Schneizel and achieve even higher power in the Empire.
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Old 2008-04-14, 14:50   Link #225
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Again, we have no confirmation on that whole Knight of One thing. And don't use Wikipedia as a source please.

I doubt Suzaku is going to do anything like betray the Emperor. I don't think he is quite that crafty.
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Old 2008-04-14, 14:52   Link #226
TheRainbowConnection
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Originally Posted by Airi View Post
you're wrong.......he told Lelouch he will change the world from within (episode 2)
I know. I'm wondering what type of change he will try to effect. He's changed a lot. Who's to say that he's still going to try to make this world a happy fun place?
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Old 2008-04-14, 14:52   Link #227
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Good character.
I personally dont like his ideas and thoughts though.
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Old 2008-04-14, 14:53   Link #228
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Originally Posted by Marsala View Post
According to Wikipedia, Suzaku's plan is to become the Knight of Ones since the Knight of Ones is assigned his own territory to control. Suzaku would choose Area 11 and then try to govern fairly. If Wikipedia is wrong, then Suzaku is still in the perfect position to increase his status. Suzaku has been trusted with the Emperor with knowledge about Geass and the Sword of Akasha that no other high-ranking knight or royal possesses. Suzaku could betray the Emperor with Schneizel and achieve even higher power in the Empire.
That has never been said, it's just a rumor and a bad one at that, Knights of Rounds members not only aren't governors, given their job it would be impossible for them to be governors. Which is why the imperial family members and idiot generals like Carares get the job. All we know about Suzaku and the Knight of One position is that he looks up to the Knight of One as an experienced soldier. -_-

And as far as Suzaku is concerned, Area 11 can go ahead and rot.
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Old 2008-04-14, 14:54   Link #229
Dann of Thursday
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Originally Posted by TheRainbowConnection View Post
I know. I'm wondering what type of change he will try to effect. He's changed a lot. Who's to say that he's still going to try to make this world a happy fun place?
Well, above all I think Suzaku believes order needs to exist. I think he'd like people to be happy, but his ideas may not be the ones they think should exist.
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Old 2008-04-14, 14:57   Link #230
ashlay
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Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
Well, above all I think Suzaku believes order needs to exist. I think he'd like people to be happy, but his ideas may not be the ones they think should exist.
better to work with what you've got instead of starting from scratch with something that could be just as bad if not worse.

Still, the rest of the world would like to have a little word with Suzaku about that.
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Old 2008-04-14, 15:00   Link #231
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Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
Well, above all I think Suzaku believes order needs to exist. I think he'd like people to be happy, but his ideas may not be the ones they think should exist.
Exactly. I think a lot of people are operating under the assumption that he's going to try to make it big in Britannia so that he can right the wrongs done against Japan.

I'm...not so sure of that anymore. "Order" seems to have taken predominance over "Japan" in his mind.
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Old 2008-04-14, 15:03   Link #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juvyniled View Post
You guys are forgetting that Lelouch could simply end the show by Geassing an unlimited amount of assassins to depose the emperor.


I imagine the scene

Toc Toc
Emperor: who is it?
Assassins: .......we are....friends!
Emperor: oh....ok! Come in!
BANG BANG BANG

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Old 2008-04-14, 15:10   Link #233
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Technically speaking, fire and ice cannot coexist; one must extinguish the other. As it stands, Lelouch's means of changing the world is prevalent over Suzaku's means. Suzaku's means requires order, whereas Lelouch's means are more effective when there is chaos. And chaos is easier to produce than it is to maintain order. Hence, for Suzaku to have any chance of following through on his objective, he must install order, and in doing so, he must end the chaos, which is brought about primarily by Zero/Lelouch. I too believe that Suzaku is a hypocrite, but not in everyone else's sense of the matter; Suzaku is a spoken hypocrite (he says things contrary to his own values/beliefs). However, what he is currently doing is NOT contrary to his belief, but a necessary prerequisite to his goal.
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Old 2008-04-14, 15:45   Link #234
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You know I actually liked Suzaku in season 1. I found his bright and optimistic ideals (albeit a bit naive) charming. He also had a friendly personality and the sound episodes featuring him and Lelouch were a riot. Now that part is gone and we have "ore" Suzaku I can't say I am to happy.

On one hand I can understand to why he turned out like this. A death of someone close to you can hit you pretty hard and when you find out it was your best friend who killed her it hits you harder. However if he says this is for Nunally's sake at any point now he either A) doesn't know Nunally very well or B) needs his head checked.

I don't care how forgiving Nunally may seem but Suzaku selling out her brother may not be the easiest thing to forgive. I could be wrong though and Suzaku could just be a selfish prick-fighting only for his own ideals and revenge but I am willing to give him a benfit out a doubt here.
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Old 2008-04-14, 15:46   Link #235
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Well, the nice part was really just an act.
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Old 2008-04-14, 16:03   Link #236
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I suppose it would've been more forgivable had he axed Lelouch. (sarcasm)

Now I'm not saying that he couldn't have compromised, but if he had, he would've been more hypocritical than ever (though ironically, he would be less despised).

To be honest, trading Lelouch in to the Emperor was the lesser of two evils. On one hand, he could have killed Lelouch and could still be in a position for an advancement in status (which would have certainly solidified his reputation as an asshole in my book), and on the other, he proceeds with the deal to not have to kill Lelouch and yada yada yada. And add in the fact that Lelouch is now invulnerable to Geass (at least from the Emperor himself).

By the way, what is the "ruling" on that matter? If an individual has already been "Geassed," by one user, are they still vulnerable to orders from another user?
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Old 2008-04-14, 16:09   Link #237
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Originally Posted by Juvyniled View Post
By the way, what is the "ruling" on that matter? If an individual has already been "Geassed," by one user, are they still vulnerable to orders from another user?
Lelouch has been geassed by himself and by the Emperor, so I would say "yes". Plus, there is also the passive geassing by Mao.
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Old 2008-04-14, 16:14   Link #238
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Originally Posted by evil|plushie View Post
As it is right now, I only see a few ways for Suzaku to change the system.

a) Marry someone of noble blood and do a Delita from FFT
b) Kill off the Emperor himself and become the new emperor.
c) Support the most likely candidate for the throne and help him depose of the old emperor.
A) He could marry Nunnuly
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Old 2008-04-14, 16:19   Link #239
Dann of Thursday
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A) He could marry Nunnuly
Unless Suzaku proves he can put her above himself (which he didn't do in the finale at all), he doesn't deserve her. Lelouch would have to give the approval I would think.
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Old 2008-04-14, 16:27   Link #240
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Where is Nunnaly anyway? All that is really said is that in ep. 2 was C.C. hadn't had the time to find her. As for marrying into the family the best possiblity was with Euphie.

As for wikipedia, it is ONLY good source for mass media, and then only so far.

@Juvyniled: Your analogy reminds me the novel, A Game of Thrones.
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