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Old 2008-04-14, 23:34   Link #281
prototype_sky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Var View Post
From what we know so far, Kallen is about the only normal person piloting a KMF, and probably the best.

C.C. is invincible.
Suzaku has hax.
Rollo can teleport.
Orange is a robot.
Urabe is dead.
Todou is a general more than a fighter.
My point exactly its better to put C.C. up against Suzaku during season 1.

You just listed 3 people that are already better than Kallen. She currently an above average grunt with a decent knightmare. Zero needs a Suzaku equivalent if he's going to win this thing. He is definitely going to have to draft some pilots from the dad's side this season
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Old 2008-04-14, 23:35   Link #282
ashlay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Var View Post
From what we know so far, Kallen is about the only normal person piloting a KMF, and probably the best.

C.C. is invincible.
Suzaku has hax.
Rollo can teleport.
Orange is a robot.
Urabe is dead.
Todou is a general more than a fighter.
That honestly makes Toudou a better pilot than Kallen though, if simply because he's got a lot more experience and a far cooler head.
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Old 2008-04-14, 23:43   Link #283
cors8
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Originally Posted by prototype_sky View Post
My point exactly its better to put C.C. up against Suzaku during season 1.
What's CC going to do? Her invincibility doesn't make her KMF invincible.
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Old 2008-04-14, 23:43   Link #284
prototype_sky
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Originally Posted by cors8 View Post
Kallen and Toudo have been the only 2 pilots the Black Knights have that have fought evenly with Suzaku.

I don't even know how you can consider CC his best pilot.

With Rollo, she only had 1 pass at him without knowing his true ability. What else did you expect to happen?
R u kidding Toudo had like 4 of his men backing him up VS Suzaku plus Zero running Tactics.

CC can mind rape Suzaku long enough while someone else kills him

So what her excuse for losing verbal fights to Suzaku of people who almost everyone on the forum considers a "hypocrite" . Surely Hax skills don't apply there.

She could've also used her womenly charms to catch him off guard on the island and finish him off.
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Old 2008-04-14, 23:51   Link #285
Var
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Originally Posted by ashlay View Post
That honestly makes Toudou a better pilot than Kallen though, if simply because he's got a lot more experience and a far cooler head.
I wouldn't say so, Todou is better due to familiarity but we've seen Kallen adapt quickly. So I think that can be put aside. Her simple hot-bloodedness, while making her more reckless, would make her the more feared weapon on the battlefield. While someone like Todou would be more feared by the command who'd be getting picked apart in strategic locations. They are different types of fighters.
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Old 2008-04-15, 00:09   Link #286
Alleluia_Cone
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Is it really a question of how good a pilot Kallen is or how good her Knightmare is? I always get the sense that in cases where she is losing, she is also the one with the inferior machinery.
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Old 2008-04-15, 00:10   Link #287
cors8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prototype_sky View Post
R u kidding Toudo had like 4 of his men backing him up VS Suzaku plus Zero running Tactics.

CC can mind rape Suzaku long enough while someone else kills him

So what her excuse for losing verbal fights to Suzaku of people who almost everyone on the forum considers a "hypocrite" . Surely Hax skills don't apply there.

She could've also used her womenly charms to catch him off guard on the island and finish him off.
That ability doesn't go through her KMF and Suzaku's KMF. Also, we don't know if it'll even have the same effect on Suzaku anymore since he's reverted back to his original personality.

What does verbal arguments have to do with this? No one has claimed Kallen is quick with her words. If Lelouch can't convince him, how can Kallen do it?

Finish him off on the island? It's the same reason Lelouch didn't kill him. Friendship is a weird thing.
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Old 2008-04-15, 00:16   Link #288
dom33
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you've yet to explain how kallen lost to suzaku verbally(and as cors8 mentioned leouch couldn't persuade suzaku.), if your talking about the cave suzaku had alot of help from lelouch(way to go lelouch ). you seem to be blaming kallen for lelouch's problems,like lelouch blamed those terrorist in episode 7.

also C.C isn't invincible she's immortal slight difference.

@cone i get that feeling too.

@var I'm also hoping for the kiss.
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Old 2008-04-15, 00:55   Link #289
evil|plushie
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Personally, I think Todoh is a better pilot than Kallen, and possibly some of the other four sword members. It's just that Kallen has , imo, the better frame.

And since when did C.Cs ability to mindrape people depend on their psychological state?
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Old 2008-04-15, 06:48   Link #290
cors8
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Originally Posted by evil|plushie View Post
And since when did C.Cs ability to mindrape people depend on their psychological state?
Well since we've only been show it once, it's speculation.

I judged it based on Suzaku's reaction to what was shown him by C.C. and then his reaction to the same incident by Mao.

Maybe Suzaku does have more secrets or other traumas though. C.C. definitely wouldn't get close enough to try unless she was thrown onto Lancelot somehow.
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Old 2008-04-15, 06:54   Link #291
evil|plushie
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Man, if that was true, imagine the implications. You could render C.C helpless with enough therapy.
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Old 2008-04-15, 09:28   Link #292
Var
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Originally Posted by cors8 View Post
Well since we've only been show it once, it's speculation.

I judged it based on Suzaku's reaction to what was shown him by C.C. and then his reaction to the same incident by Mao.

Maybe Suzaku does have more secrets or other traumas though. C.C. definitely wouldn't get close enough to try unless she was thrown onto Lancelot somehow.
It was stated by C.C. that she simply shows the victim gruesome images, but what they are depends on the person. It's akin to showing one their greatest fear, and since every human has fear, she will always have that ability. If you look at Suzaku's, it's his father's oppressive and judging gaze, and then you see images of him being alone and wandering silhouttes. They all fit Suzaku's character and what I'd imagine to be his fears. Purposelessness.

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Originally Posted by dom33 View Post
you've yet to explain how kallen lost to suzaku verbally(and as cors8 mentioned leouch couldn't persuade suzaku.), if your talking about the cave suzaku had alot of help from lelouch(way to go lelouch ). you seem to be blaming kallen for lelouch's problems,like lelouch blamed those terrorist in episode 7.

also C.C isn't invincible she's immortal slight difference.

@cone i get that feeling too.

@var I'm also hoping for the kiss.
Kallen didn't verbally lose to Suzaku, he simply said the right things at the right moment. He's no verbal genius but he is hard-headed enough that he'd eventually hit the right chords when the situation presents itself. That is what happened in the cave.

C.C. is invincible in that she cannot die, if she is captured that fact would be the greatest bane as she'd never die no matter the torture endured. So its a double-edged sword.

We'll see what becomes of that kiss, supposedly it was pushed back with her story but who knows. It may never even appear.
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Old 2008-04-15, 12:07   Link #293
Fenrir_valindri
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Kallen is probably one of the better KMF pilots in the series.

All of the fights she lost early on were due to being in a inferior machine, and when she gained the Gurren MKII she could fight on par with Suzaku in the Lancelot (which is one of the strongest KMF in the series.)

I think that she may be on equal footing, if not better, than the 4 Swords, but not Todou himself.

She did excellently against Cornelia when Lelouch + C.C. got owned pretty hard by her. (Cornelia is on of the best KMF pilots in the series as well)

So I wouldn't sell Kallen's success on the specs of her Machine alone, she is the best pilot in the Order, short of Todou.
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Old 2008-04-15, 12:33   Link #294
Westlo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prototype_sky View Post
She didn't look too good versus Rollo
Who would with his ability?
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Old 2008-04-15, 13:09   Link #295
Majek
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Kallen is one of the most predictable pilots in the series. Just because she moves her ass a lot and shouts like an idiot doesn't make her one of the best pilots. She'll always head straight into a grab and when you avoid that she's as good as dead. Especially now that TEH arm is inferior.
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Old 2008-04-15, 14:29   Link #296
evil|plushie
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So...in fighting game terms, Kallen's basically a character who keeps spamming that one move over and over again? While Suzaku is a guy who for some reason has a very unbalanced moveset.

And the Cornelia that Kallen fought wasn't the same Cornelia that Lelouch + C.C fought at the end of S1. That was berserk Cornelia, where she gets ++++ to all mecha piloting stats.
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Old 2008-04-15, 14:38   Link #297
Majek
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Anyway you look at it, her style is boring.
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Old 2008-04-15, 14:44   Link #298
Fenrir_valindri
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But her style is what the Mech was designed for, and it works apparently.

Simple but effective is still effective.

Not to mention most people fight in a very simliar fashion in this series.
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Old 2008-04-15, 15:04   Link #299
Nilie
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Kallen trumps Suzaku in any Nightmare fight so long as she gets a Lancelot of her own 'cause face ppl, she owned pretty hard even though Suzaku can fly and do a lot of fancy stuff her own Nightmare cannot. In a man to wooh-man fight, Suzaku spin round kicks anyone into orbit XD.
C.C is good but I agree that with enough therapy the girl could be rendered completely helpless. It appears to me that even though it has been made clear this woman can fight, she'd rather not as it is not her forte. Most of the time she's the one getting shot.
Lelouch equals, enough brains to pawn, like, TEH Britannia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Majek View Post
Kallen is one of the most predictable pilots in the series. Just because she moves her ass a lot and shouts like an idiot doesn't make her one of the best pilots. She'll always head straight into a grab and when you avoid that she's as good as dead. Especially now that TEH arm is inferior.
Did you really think the way she fought in that sucky old Nightmare while rescuing her Mom was predictable stuff? I'm usually rather impressed by her. Suzaku and Rollo pull some acrobatic shit out of there ass, sooo not very masculinely dignified.
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Old 2008-04-15, 15:14   Link #300
Aquaman OS
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Kallen is a great pilot. She was able to more or less stalemate Suzaku in every encounter (and by that I mean both were damaged more or less equally) and probably could have fought him better in person if she wasn't trying to cover herself up at the same time. She just has a rather large weakness in the fact that her KF has most of its power in that one arm.

Personally I think they should swap Guren's arm for a regular one and give it balanced weapons like Lancelot. The arm gimmick is getting rather stale like the final Gundam's of GSD and their "I'll only use 1 move over and over" style of fighting.

She's still better than all of the order pilots except for maybe Todou and his 4 guys.
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