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Old 2008-04-15, 15:19   Link #301
Majek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nilie View Post
Did you really think the way she fought in that sucky old Nightmare while rescuing her Mom was predictable stuff? I'm usually rather impressed by her. Suzaku and Rollo pull some acrobatic shit out of there ass, sooo not very masculinely dignified.
That was a special situation. Protecting someone is the most ungrateful thing on the battlefield so there's no surprise they made her look decent.
If they just sliced and diced and sidestepped attacks they'd make opponent like bull-Kallen look even more ridiculous, and they sure can't afford that if they want to sell merchandise.

what other real pilots does the order have other than those guys Aquaman OS?
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Old 2008-04-15, 15:30   Link #302
Fenrir_valindri
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Kallen just pilots her current KMF the way it is supposed to be used, it is specialized for close combat and using its arm to destroy its opponents ASAP.

Just because it is simple doesn't mean it is as easy as "side-step and slash" otherwise the likes of Suzaku would have already defeated Kallen, and easily as well.

I could just as easily argue that the Gawain was a boring mech cause it's only real capability was the Hadron Cannons, otherwise C.C. and Lelouch where worthless as pilots.

The Lancelot is the typical "good at everything" mech we see in every mech combat series, so it is not terribly interesting either.

The Vincent appears to be along the same lines as well, not even adding in the capabilities of Rollo.

-------------

Kallen's own piloting skills were shown before she got the Gurren, and Lelouch found she was the most skilled pilot at his disposal at the time, and that didn't change when Todou and the others joined up. (Seeing as the Gurren stayed with Kallen)

Most of the Order pilots are pretty decent as well, not on the level of the Cornelia's Knights, but certainly on par with Britannia's standing military KMF. (Trained soldiers)
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Old 2008-04-15, 15:44   Link #303
Majek
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She's been overusing her most powerful weapon from the beginning in every situation, even when just crushing the opponent would suffice.

Like i said they had to make Lancelot do fancy stuff to make Guren up to par. Of course they should defeat her like that, but it's anime and battles don't go that way.

And Gawain was a boring mech, no argument there.

_________

i doubt Todou or any of his guys would want to pilot Gurren anyway. Todou buttshots? wtf XDD
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Old 2008-04-15, 15:50   Link #304
ashlay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majek View Post
And Gawain was a boring mech, no argument there.
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i doubt Todou or any of his guys would want to pilot Gurren anyway. Todou buttshots? wtf XDD
bah, the two seater feature alone made the Gawain a good design. -_-

and the Gekkas have the exact same cockpit as the Guren. You should feel blessed you haven't noticed any Toudou butt shots yet! (I think I can remember an Asahina one in 17. >_> <_<)
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Old 2008-04-15, 15:51   Link #305
Tempest35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
Kallen is a great pilot. She was able to more or less stalemate Suzaku in every encounter (and by that I mean both were damaged more or less equally) and probably could have fought him better in person if she wasn't trying to cover herself up at the same time. She just has a rather large weakness in the fact that her KF has most of its power in that one arm.

Personally I think they should swap Guren's arm for a regular one and give it balanced weapons like Lancelot. The arm gimmick is getting rather stale like the final Gundam's of GSD and their "I'll only use 1 move over and over" style of fighting.

She's still better than all of the order pilots except for maybe Todou and his 4 guys.

Hey, if it isn't broken, don't fix it. If some guy gets owned by the Guren's arm trick after she's gone through 10 guys previous, guess what, that just means that #11 sucks. She can consistantly trap people into a position where she can use that arm's ability - she's good. Overused? Isn't the mech MADE to use that ability REPEATEDLY in the first place?

Guren can't move like Lancelot can because not only of the difference in the mech design but also the difference in the respective pilots themselves - no sense in giving it similar weapons. It's like giving a right-handed, power-hitting karate student a 3-section staff for the first time. Result = LOL.
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Old 2008-04-15, 15:52   Link #306
Fenrir_valindri
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Lancelot always did fancy stuff, even before the Gurren was introduced.

We also don't know the the Claw arm has the capability to simply "crush" other mechs without the charge, just like the Lancelot's swords might not be able to cut other Mechs if it wasn't for its special properties.

Kallen has proven to be an extremely flexible fighter, even in the Gurren.

She isn't the one who designed the mech either, she just pilots the thing, not her fault that its primary weapon is a Radiation-Wave Claw, and all its other weapons are purely for support.

What do you consider an "interesting" mech anyway, and who doesn't use their most powerful weapon as often as possible?

If you give me a weapon with several modes of fire, but one was clearly more effective then the others, then by God I'll use the most effective one.
---

Female fans might appreciate it (I doubt it) if they get some fanservice as well.
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Old 2008-04-15, 15:55   Link #307
Aquaman OS
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Yeah same design. Just think how easily Todou could have beaten Guiford if they only threw in a few shots of his powerful well toned manly ass. (It's Todou! DA DAH!)

In all seriousness though Todou and friends have their own specific fighting style that requires their swords. So its not surprising he wouldn't have them switch. The Gekka's seem custom made for them anyway.
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Old 2008-04-15, 15:59   Link #308
ashlay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquaman OS View Post
Yeah same design. Just think how easily Todou could have beaten Guiford if they only threw in a few shots of his powerful well toned manly ass. (It's Todou! DA DAH!)

In all seriousness though Todou and friends have their own specific fighting style that requires their swords. So its not surprising he wouldn't have them switch. The Gekka's seem custom made for them anyway.
well, kinda. the Gekkas are merely mass production prototypes based on the Guren.

Those 5 may have always been intended for Toudou and the 4 holy swords, but they were also intended to be test models for eventual mass production. (Green MP Gekkas! horray! )
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Old 2008-04-15, 16:08   Link #309
Majek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashlay View Post
bah, the two seater feature alone made the Gawain a good design. -_-
It has to have 3 seats to be a good design. But 5 are preferred :P Power Rangers ftw



Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
Lancelot always did fancy stuff, even before the Gurren was introduced.

We also don't know the the Claw arm has the capability to simply "crush" other mechs without the charge, just like the Lancelot's swords might not be able to cut other Mechs if it wasn't for its special properties.

Kallen has proven to be an extremely flexible fighter, even in the Gurren.

She isn't the one who designed the mech either, she just pilots the thing, not her fault that its primary weapon is a Radiation-Wave Claw, and all its other weapons are purely for support.

What do you consider an "interesting" mech anyway, and who doesn't use their most powerful weapon as often as possible?

If you give me a weapon with several modes of fire, but one was clearly more effective then the others, then by God I'll use the most effective one.
That's the point. Flashiness is the point of mechas these days. If its design is somewhat normal, then it's bound to jump around like a crazy frog and flash.
She crushed mercs easily and tore them apart without the mircowave.

She could've ask for improvements, like any decent pilot would. If it works don't improve it isn't really an option when you're fighing against an empire.

Lancelot is balanced enough for me. Even if you nerf its weapons it still has more options available than others.

Gurren itself isn't that bad, it's just Kallen uses it in a way that makes me want to facepalm. I don't say she couldn't beat Lancelot, but never in a straight one on one with just rushing straight on hoping to get a good hit...erm... grab.
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Old 2008-04-15, 16:11   Link #310
ashlay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majek View Post
It has to have 3 seats to be a good design. But 5 are preferred :P Power Rangers ftw
I prefer a couple in my giant robots, not a crowd, than you very much. ...
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Old 2008-04-15, 16:14   Link #311
Majek
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Originally Posted by ashlay View Post
I prefer a couple in my giant robots, not a crowd, than you very much. ...
Of course. But you have to have 2 copilots that actually fly the thing while you play with your girl and the fifth wheel is the scape goat when things go bad.
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Old 2008-04-15, 16:29   Link #312
Fenrir_valindri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majek View Post
It has to have 3 seats to be a good design. But 5 are preferred :P Power Rangers ftw
Screw Power Ranger, Voltos 5 and Voltron 4tw.


Quote:
That's the point. Flashiness is the point of mechas these days. If its design is somewhat normal, then it's bound to jump around like a crazy frog and flash.
She crushed mercs easily and tore them apart without the mircowave.
Insta-killing an enemy takes alot less effort, if your argueing for flashiness over effeciency, then I can't really say anything, Kallen kills her opponents fast, she doesn't show off like Suzaku does with his acrobatics.

Quote:
She could've ask for improvements, like any decent pilot would. If it works don't improve it isn't really an option when you're fighing against an empire.
It also isn't an option to improve a mech on the fly when you are outgunned and outnumbered by one of the World's largest Empires, especially when they have the rest of the Rebellion to equip.

We don't upgrade weapons like that on the fly, it takes time and research, and soldiers can't just request upgrades when their current gear works better then great.

Quote:
Lancelot is balanced enough for me. Even if you nerf its weapons it still has more options available than others.
Beam Cannon, Sword, Smash Hawks, Flight (later) , Shields(defense).

To

Radiation-Wave Claw, Arm-mounted cannon, secondary knife (defense), flight (this season), Smash Hawks.

Not really that much of a difference, Suzaku's mech just has a (single) superior ranged weapon, while Kallen's is specialized for melee, not much of a difference.

Quote:
Gurren itself isn't that bad, it's just Kallen uses it in a way that makes me want to facepalm. I don't say she couldn't beat Lancelot, but never in a straight one on one with just rushing straight on hoping to get a good hit...erm... grab.
Kallen uses it how it was designed to be used, its a charging mech, look at the design of the damn thing, it has a single extremely powerful Melee-weapon and a few support weapons common to most mechs in this series, what do you think it was designed to do? Give fire support?

Considering Suzaku's strategy is generally charge right in, dodging the enemy fire, he fights exactly the same was Kallen does, with the added benefit of having a beam cannon.
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Old 2008-04-15, 19:54   Link #313
Witacume
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whats bothering me the most at the moment is Why is Kallen crying in the opening? does she get heartbroken? Someone close die? Why is she crying!?
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Old 2008-04-15, 20:04   Link #314
Dann of Thursday
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She doesn't enjoy killing people.
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Old 2008-04-15, 20:06   Link #315
Fenrir_valindri
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Quite possibly, it has been shown several times that she dislikes killing people, but she is not against it to accomplish her objective. (She even apologizes to Orange-Kun )
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Old 2008-04-15, 20:07   Link #316
ashlay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
Quite possibly, it has been shown several times that she dislikes killing people, but she is not against it to accomplish her objective. (She even apologizes to Orange-Kun )
and the opening is the exact same idea: crying while she fries a Sutherland from the inside out.
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Old 2008-04-15, 21:25   Link #317
Blue_Mercy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Witacume View Post
whats bothering me the most at the moment is Why is Kallen crying in the opening? does she get heartbroken? Someone close die? Why is she crying!?
Without knowing more; impossible to say. Could be any number of things and you already mentioned a couple good choices.

Though heartbroken and someone close to her dying could be one and the same.

Spoiler:
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Old 2008-04-15, 22:11   Link #318
germanturkey
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what i'm surprised at is that she hasn't run out of radiation cartridges in her fights. she uses them enough...

and in the lancelot vs gurren debate, lancelot has the edge in all categories except mobility, in which they're equal. the radiation arm has a delay between activation and execution, lancelot has two swords... you do the math. except since its an anime, it'll never play out properly..
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Old 2008-04-16, 01:02   Link #319
Stretch5920
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Kallen is crying in the OP because she doesn't like killing people.
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Old 2008-04-16, 02:41   Link #320
Westlo
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^ I highly doubt it's because of that... should be obvious why before the OP switches to the 2nd.
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