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Old 2004-04-06, 22:57   Link #1
Worldestroyer
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Friendship and lovers

I truly enjoyed the enitre season of M-sgA and i found every episode interesting. This thread is not ment to argue about anything it's just a question.

Is it only me, or is it difficult to seperate "sisterly" and yuri love in the series? At first i accepted all situations as "sisterly" love since there was no reason to think otherwise. Although i always felt like it was the edge. Then came ep9-12 with the book thing and the lovers (i forgot the situation). And after thinking about the entire season i'm having difficulty seperating yuri and sisterly love. I don't mind yuri (actually i would prefer it) but w/o being certain, most of the nice and pure scenes in the series are now stained with yuri (no pun intended).
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Old 2004-04-06, 23:41   Link #2
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i can't consider myself an expert on marimite, but for what i've seen their relationships are not defined. Is very girly IMO that two girls go around holding hands,so the line is very, very blurry, and i think that makes their relations more interesting. Is just a really deep friendship, or does it cross the line??? is great to speculate about this subject, i have the impression that even at the end of the whole series we wouldn't be sure about it...

To make it simple, i think that Sei and Shiori are what you would consider yuri, while the other girls are ( for now...) just friends.

Is so great to have an all-girl school anime, now what we need is an all-boy school anime!...
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Old 2004-04-06, 23:45   Link #3
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I found it difficult too. Though I tried to just 'watch' the show, I couldn't help but attempt to assign the relationships into sisterly, shoujo-ai, or yuri categories. I think when a show tries to attempt actual affairs between girls (instead of climax inducing hentai..though I guess those can be actual too) it's hard to separate and label the relationships because girls just grow close to eachother naturally. I think marimite, instead of trying to be specifically yuri or shoujo-ai, seemed to define that point where youre old enough to genuinely feel love for another girl but too young to understand about all the 'yuri' aspects. (This is coming from a girls perspective so Im guessing a lot of guys didn't quite go through this during adolescence)

Anyway, I guess I didn't really have a point to this..not quite arguing or answering anything just spouting nonsense!!
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Old 2004-04-07, 00:59   Link #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mantidor
i can't consider myself an expert on marimite, but for what i've seen their relationships are not defined. Is very girly IMO that two girls go around holding hands,so the line is very, very blurry, and i think that makes their relations more interesting. Is just a really deep friendship, or does it cross the line??? is great to speculate about this subject, i have the impression that even at the end of the whole series we wouldn't be sure about it...

To make it simple, i think that Sei and Shiori are what you would consider yuri, while the other girls are ( for now...) just friends.

Is so great to have an all-girl school anime, now what we need is an all-boy school anime!...
hmm....yumi's brother goes to a all boys school right? maybe they can make an anime about his school. who knows.

well since the beginning i have always hope that it would become a shoujo-ai anime. though a lot of people would just interpret the relationships as shoujo or s-class. from one post i remember reading that the relationship between sei and shiori can be consider as s-class where it's a phase that girls go through and will eventually grow out of when they grow older. s-class can go as far as touching or intimate relationship which i think is weird since if that is the case then where do you draw the line with s-class. hmm... hope it doesn't involve bed scenes. kekek.

overall i have no idea what the title is for the relationships in marmite. i guess it's up to the individual who watches marmite to assume/imagine/ or wish what they want between the relationships. for me shoujo-ai all the way. yay. hehe.
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Old 2004-04-07, 01:00   Link #5
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I think it's love (to Yumi for Sachiko, Rei/Yoshino, Shiori/Sei, Canina for Sei...) but how to define it ?

there is no precise act, but all is in the heart it is necessary to acknowledge that their relations are too ambiguous to be friendship. especially when Sei said "Sachiko, do not worry, we won't take off our clothes to play with our bodies! " i loved the face of Sachiko at this moment !!! then, it's not friendship...
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Old 2004-04-07, 01:41   Link #6
aniforever
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Originally Posted by laurore31
I think it's love (to Yumi for Sachiko, Rei/Yoshino, Shiori/Sei, Canina for Sei...) but how to define it ?

there is no precise act, but all is in the heart it is necessary to acknowledge that their relations are too ambiguous to be friendship. especially when Sei said "Sachiko, do not worry, we won't take off our clothes to play with our bodies! " i loved the face of Sachiko at this moment !!! then, it's not friendship...

hehe yea i love that part but i thought it ended with "we won't take off our uniform and play around." did i miss the "with our bodies" part?

iono all the relationships in marmite is confusing or at least people interpret it that way. i really like sei since she can really lighten up the room and be comforting when needed to. for my fav pair it has to be rei and yoshino all the way. i just love the evil yoshino laugh. kekek
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Old 2004-04-07, 01:49   Link #7
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I've already said some stuff about this in the Sei & Shiori thread, but I basically agree with mantidor in thinking that Sei/Shiori and Sei/Shizuka is shoujo-ai, whilst the rest are just friends (for now).

Whilst I can see why some people think Yumi is in love with Sachiko, I don't think Sachiko feels the same way about Yumi right now. They're both so insecure, and they have a difficult time opening up their feelings to each other.

As for Yoshino/Rei, I see them wanting to be each other's center of attention, particularly with Yoshino. That isn't to say they don't love each other because clearly they do, but I just don't really see it as a "romantic" love.

Spoiler:
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Old 2004-04-07, 07:23   Link #8
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I personally envy the fact the girls can have relationships where they can publicly show their feelings for each other.
If guys acted that way they'd all be labeled gay.
I don't believe that love=yuri.
The relationships between the girls definitely can be defined as love as far as I'm concerned.
I personally think it's a shame the people suppress their feelings for each other because they might be missinterpreted by people who obviously don't know them.
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Old 2004-04-07, 13:31   Link #9
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I also don't believe love=yuri.
I believe the majority of the relationships in Marimite are very loving, that is to say they genuinely care for each other much the same way as parents for their children or in this case between sisters/friends.
And its interesting that its frowned apon for guys to show feelings, almost ever really. This is more modern culture then anything I believe (I take my experience from north america) in the past I know it was still common for guys to pat each other on the shoulder or hug a friend that you missed etc.
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Old 2004-04-07, 14:03   Link #10
Göönk
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maybe you should start a poll and ask wether we think it's love or friendship.
IMO, after seeing the anime, it's friendship. But those who read the novels may think differently. Also, people used to japanese culture may think differently.

And in the end, what does it change? If it's love or friendship. hum?
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Old 2004-04-07, 14:06   Link #11
laurore31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aniforever
hehe yea i love that part but i thought it ended with "we won't take off our uniform and play around." did i miss the "with our bodies" part?

iono all the relationships in marmite is confusing or at least people interpret it that way. i really like sei since she can really lighten up the room and be comforting when needed to. for my fav pair it has to be rei and yoshino all the way. i just love the evil yoshino laugh. kekek
oups, sorry. i'm french. but play around without clothes.... is my interpretation mdrrrrr
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Old 2004-04-07, 14:25   Link #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Göönk
And in the end, what does it change? If it's love or friendship. hum?
perhaps our understanding of the situations? ^^
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Old 2004-04-07, 14:35   Link #13
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perhaps our understanding of the situations? ^^
No, I don't know, I don't feel like I need to know. I don't know why but I understand that some people need to know. I think I really don't care weither they're lesbian or not. Both cases are ok with me. It doesn't change the story or the facts. They want to be together. That's all that matters. From my point of view. What do you think?
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Old 2004-04-07, 14:50   Link #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Göönk
No, I don't know, I don't feel like I need to know. I don't know why but I understand that some people need to know. I think I really don't care weither they're lesbian or not. Both cases are ok with me. It doesn't change the story or the facts. They want to be together. That's all that matters. From my point of view. What do you think?
I personally feel its important to understand what people are about. Not only does it help one to understand their feelings in a situation and allow you to respond but also allows you to understand their true motives and thus you can avoid getting into destructive relationships a little better. Thats my personal opinion anyway.
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Old 2004-04-07, 15:06   Link #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Göönk
No, I don't know, I don't feel like I need to know. I don't know why but I understand that some people need to know. I think I really don't care weither they're lesbian or not. Both cases are ok with me. It doesn't change the story or the facts. They want to be together. That's all that matters. From my point of view. What do you think?
In my point of view this show is all about relationships and I think understanding those relationships is paramount to getting the most out of the show.

I live in North America too and I personally haven't seen a lot of guys walking down the street holding hands who are just friends.
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Old 2004-04-07, 15:46   Link #16
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I live in North America too and I personally haven't seen a lot of guys walking down the street holding hands who are just friends.
yeah that's true... but in the other hand, I don't think that the whole Lilian school is gay...

Maybe the girls don't even know their own feelings.

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Old 2004-04-07, 19:45   Link #17
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I think discussions like this one just show how much people like this series. And now we have all Spring and Summer to analyze every nuance of every episode until the new season is rumored to start.
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Originally Posted by mantidor
Is so great to have an all-girl school anime, now what we need is an all-boy school anime!...
The only all-boys school anime I know of is Here is Greenwood. Good luck finding it though. It was only released on VHS years ago, and I believe its been out of print for a while now.
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Indeed.
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Old 2004-04-07, 20:50   Link #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Göönk
yeah that's true... but in the other hand, I don't think that the whole Lilian school is gay...

Maybe the girls don't even know their own feelings.
I quite agree, what I was trying to point out is that it easier for girls to have the type of close relations that are portrayed in the anime without being stereo typed as gay or lesbian or yuri. That is much harder for guys because of social pressures.

I believe personally that there are very few yuri relationships in this show and thats certainly not what the shows about though it adds an interesting twist to the mix.
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Old 2004-04-08, 00:57   Link #19
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That is much harder for guys because of social pressures.
yeah, I cannot imagine social consequences of an "all boys pijama party". Or even, to relates fact that happened during the series, boys playing female characters in Cinderela.

Or boys that want to find the red/yellow/white card to go out with the "en button" petit frère (frère = brother in french)

Completely impossible for guys.
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Old 2004-04-08, 03:21   Link #20
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I've seen this discussed elsewhere, in great detail, with other shows. I think the relationships run the gamut, from simple admiration, to hero worship, to romantic, and the romantic relationships may or may not be sexual. In all the various nuances, the relationships can get pretty obsessive. Jealousy can be involved (when another girl enters the picture), yet in some cases, it doesn't preclude one or the other partner falling in love with, and marrying, a man.

Take the relationship between Yumi and Sachiko, for instance. It affects Yumi to the point where she can't stand being near Sachiko, because it's too intense. Yet, later,

Spoiler:


If anyone's looking for another anime with relationships like this, try Oniisama E.. It is a great deal more intense, though, and it's not something I'd show to kids, due to the amount of mental anguish some of the characters go through.

I'll attach the long missive I wrote about this subject on a certain mailing list back in January:

Spoiler:
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