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Old 2008-04-24, 02:13   Link #61
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donquigleone View Post
It's fairly probably that the vajra's are cybernetic, I can't see any organic organism having integrated laser weapons
Lasers are just light beams. It is technically possible in a scifi setting for a biological weapon to have powerful photon emission organs.

Although you are probably talking about the beam weapons, not lasers. But since we don't have real-life beam weapons I can't tell you how likely it is.
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Old 2008-04-24, 02:20   Link #62
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Alright then...That makes me feel a little better because I felt like I was missing out on some info I needed to enjoy the show to the fullest...I guess this sensation I'm feeling is called newness...
As far as Macross Frontier is concerned, you know as much as the rest of us (even if the manga is very similar to the anime, it's only a little ahead), so we all get to experience the show at the same time. Where it helps to be more familiar to the overall Macross storyline is that we can see extra bits of detail where other viewers may not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO View Post
you just have to look at the zentradi's, they did not much cybernetics, except for the fleet commander in the original who was ridiculously modified.
As a rule, I don't think that you can assume that how the Zentradi use technology is representative of how the Protoculture did so.
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Old 2008-04-24, 04:37   Link #63
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Birdman was probably Cybernetic too. Though frankly it's not even clear they're organic either.

I was under the impression that beam weapons were laser or Plasma weapons, both would be difficult to make organically, though I suppose anything's possible where the protoculture are involved

Last edited by DonQuigleone; 2008-04-24 at 04:55.
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Old 2008-04-24, 06:43   Link #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
As a rule, I don't think that you can assume that how the Zentradi use technology is representative of how the Protoculture did so.
true.

but a lot of evidence point to the hypothesis that the proto-culture was VERY ADVANCED in genetic engineering.

while the lack of any visible biological weaponry in the combat designed zentradi race is debatable, it is in no doubt they are more or less designed on the genetic level to be sufficiently considered efficient for combat in space or s gravity well without the use of any visible non-biological cybernetics in the standard troop, not even machine-organic interfacing ports for obvious mechanical armour suit/weapon.

The cybernetics of the VAJRA seem very mechanical, as in armour which is directly bonded to organic interfaces, & etc, etc. which in my opinion suggest a different line of thinking, if not less superior sign of technological advancement.

Quote:
I was under the impression that beam weapons were laser or Plasma weapons, both would be difficult to make organically, though I suppose anything's possible where the protoculture are involved
Well considering that the proto-culture developed BIOLOGICAL weapons (Protodeviln) which are equipped with ORGANIC INTER-DEMENSIONAL GENERATORS, i won't be surprised if the can create genetic creatures which can shoot plasma or even something similar to lazers.
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Old 2008-04-24, 12:46   Link #65
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I'm beaten due to never seeing Macross 7 :P. What were the specifics of the Protodeviln and their inter dimensional generator things.

Weren't they Super Zentradi that were possesed by beings from another dimension? Were they possessed due to the aforementioned generators? Also is it possible that the generators were grafted when they proverbially came out of the vat? (if that's how zentraedi or protodeviln are born, they were manufactured so to speak right?)
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Old 2008-04-24, 13:01   Link #66
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Protodevilin are nothing like Zentradi. I'll post a more complete explanation in the Macross 7 thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO View Post
but a lot of evidence point to the hypothesis that the proto-culture was VERY ADVANCED in genetic engineering.
You seem to be talking about something very different from cybernetics. Furthermore, my point was more that the Protoculture had lots of technologies that the Zentradi had no knowledge of, so we can't accurately gauge what the former were capable of based solely on what we see the latter use.
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Old 2008-04-24, 13:18   Link #67
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With exception of the Birdman of course which resembles more the Vajra in terms biomech technology.

If we were to trace the evolution of Protoculture weapons technology.

Zentradi + Mecha ----> Vajra? (Missing link) -----> Birdman ----> Evil Series (Protodevlin)

What we do know about the Protoculture is that make war by proxy and don't fight themselves. (Except the Anima Spiritia users in the Protodevlin war)
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Old 2008-04-24, 14:16   Link #68
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I think it's perfectly possible within Macross for them genetically engineer something and then add mechanical components. Also thanks for the link 4tran
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Old 2008-04-24, 15:02   Link #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donquigleone View Post
I'm beaten due to never seeing Macross 7 :P. What were the specifics of the Protodeviln and their inter dimensional generator things.

Weren't they Super Zentradi that were possesed by beings from another dimension? Were they possessed due to the aforementioned generators? Also is it possible that the generators were grafted when they proverbially came out of the vat? (if that's how zentraedi or protodeviln are born, they were manufactured so to speak right?)
From Wikipedia
Spoiler for Macross 7 and Protodevilin:
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Last edited by 4Tran; 2008-04-24 at 15:12. Reason: Added spoiler tag.
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Old 2008-04-25, 00:11   Link #70
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Judging from Episode 4, we know that the Varja are very susceptible to Zentradi weapons.
Spoiler:


This fact, coupled with the attack on Ranka's ship (when she was a child) almost certainly links the Zentradi and the Varja (perhaps through the Protoculture?) The question is how.
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Old 2008-04-26, 17:47   Link #71
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i did some analyse on the weapon thing, i think i'll just quote them here for reference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO View Post
nice catch Spitfire.

after looking up the information, i concur with your analysis. job's a good 'um



as previous comments has answered the question about the weapons effectiveness and why is human-zentradi "modern" technology is so ineffective.

one probably answer is that their so few examples of the weapon in the surviving remnants of Boddole Zer Main Fleet (Space War I) that reverse engineering of the technology was difficult, since from the TV series we know they had a few of those liquid plasma rifles.

the other reason is that all the automated factories which manufactured the weapons for the fleet did not have the "plans" for the weapons so did not produce this weapon for that zentradi fleet in that sector of the galaxy before they ceased operation.

Speculation is that the zentradi fleets have no mobile automated factories (such as the ones in all macross colony fleets) to produce advanced weaponry or weapon systems, although logical conclusion that the more simpler weapons were constructed and obviously maintained a sufficient production to armed new zentradi clone troops with basic weapons, ammo, armour suits and spare parts.

We can tell they aren't surprised by the weapon, which is why they probably ignored it, along with the zentradi space hulk.

the other reason why UN spacy do not employ plasma weaponry is another simply human reason, current kinetic weaponry, native or zentradi ("Impact" cannons) have been more then sufficient for all the current conflict between zentradi-zentradi encounters (Supervisor Army) and zentradi-human encounters.

really no need to go to the length to make them, although the fact that Michael sniper weaponry is effective, is probably proof that humans have not entirely given up on energy based weapons, as it looks more like linear electromagnetic-plasma. i.e. railgun, combining a kinetic slug with a plasma-shell (railgun use plasma to propel the solid slug down the barrel, hence electromagnetic barrier to contain the plasma)

just see the video below, you can see the plasma exiting the barrel behind the solid kinetic round.
quite beautiful if you ask me.



well, we now know that Bug armour is vulnerable to energy weaponry, even zentradi "impact" cannon rounds at point blank range cannot penetrate it.

it makes the kills in episode one by S.M.S even more impressive if you think about it.


then this came up:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO View Post
you know, i keep re-watching the bit where Quan Quan shoots the bug, you notice her main cannon shooting point blank looks remarkably similar to the weapon Alto picks-up, while it's possible that the housing of the weapon is a standard pattern, since we see alot of modern weapons using the same basic design and parts, yet can fire different calibres or use different mechanics, won't be surprised if the Zentradi used the same concept. Certainly makes weapons maintenance very easy for all types used.

It makes me wonder if the cannon Quan Quan use is actually a liquid plasma cannon as well, it certainly "splashed" and the "colour" (orange) of the weapon projectile looks the same.


but then again, the enemy weapon also discharge an "orange" beam like projectile, either this means the weapon they use is plasma based or just a coincident i don't know.

but what i realise is that the dent in the armour could be more or less the real reason why Alto could kill it in one shot.

I think if Quan Quan had the chance to shoot again in the same place, the weapon would of killed the bug in the same fashion as well.

but this is speculation at best. have to wait for some specs to show up.


personally the more i watch episode 4, i think the idea of Quan Quan having a liquid plasma cannon isn't impossible, i mean the only specs we have is that the suit she's using only has an "impact" cannon, but those are from typical armament specs from 2017-18, largely historical.

It can't be said that this will be true in 2059.

after all the armaments on a F-16 is significantly different on a F-16E

They have a different electronic package and missile payload.

Besides Zentradi still use traditional zentradi tech, but with a few improvements anyway.
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Old 2008-04-26, 18:05   Link #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krln99 View Post
Whereas human weapons do little to no damage against them. One shot of a very old Zentradi shoulder-fired cannon blows them into bits
Not quite. Mikael was picking off targets with his sniper rifle, and the small Vajra are not very resistant to human guns. Moreover, Mikael's sniper fire had no problems piercing through a larger Vajra, its just that one shot usually won't get the job done. Quran Quran's missile barrage also had little to no impact against the Vajra. And if not for the crack she had made on the Vajra's armor, perhaps Alto wouldn't be as successful even with that old Zent gun equipped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO View Post
personally the more i watch episode 4, i think the idea of Quan Quan having a liquid plasma cannon isn't impossible, i mean the only specs we have is that the suit she's using only has an "impact" cannon, but those are from typical armament specs from 2017-18, largely historical.
It is highly possible Quran Quran (somebody tell me where Klan Klein came from please? It doesn't even sound Meltlandi) was using plasma weapons.

Unfortunately, no official source material ever indicated just what type of 'standard' weaponry were being utilized for the Zjentohlauedy/Meltlandi forces. Although one thing for sure, the Zents/Melts never relied on ballistic weaponry as much as humans do. Most of their weapons, save for missiles, are energy based.

UN SPACY did toy with certain aspects of Zent/Melt weapons. Most notably the YF-21, which had a rather similar configuration as the Queadluun-Rau. Then again, official materials did indicate that the YF-21 was influenced by the Queadluun-Rau.

Although most Zents tend to have excessive pride regarding their weaponry, and they rather not pilot a Valkyrie.

I don't think UN SPACY technology ever quite caught up.

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Last edited by Tak; 2008-04-26 at 21:32.
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Old 2008-04-28, 15:43   Link #73
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speculation for episode 5.

sheryl caught Altro near his school, or close by.

evidence: he is wearing his uniform, obviously on the way there.

evidence 2: no prior evidence suggest she knows where he lives, hence in ep2 she went to the S.M.S building and not to his house/place.

evidence 3: she knows he is from the fleets most "prestige fleet school" so she wait for him nearby, because the information was available from the beginning provided by cathy/and or the organisers of the concert.

question: how does to tie in with the erm....raunchy preview?

theory: because sheryl is near a school, some student spot her.

evidence: her disguise pathetic and is worse then the last one.

conclusion: she will gather a lot of attention and fans.

this will lead to a cat and mouse chase, with both of them. fans want sheryl and simultaneously kill the man wearing the same uniform as them, that she seems to be holding hands "affectionately" with.



theory: Altro will try to find a place to hide, either nearby the school or in he school itself.

conclusion: Altro & Sheryl will have to hide together, in a dark place.

evidence: the preview was dark and she seems to be pushed or cramped.


maybe they hid in a store room, or a locker or something cramped, to get away from the mob of students.

theory: Ranka/Nena will see them running away together.
conclusion: misunderstanding.

evidence: my hentai intuition

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Old 2008-04-29, 01:04   Link #74
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Well, the extra teaser shots in the official Macross website does show a few more things, though the scene above is still possible...

Spoiler:
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Old 2008-04-29, 03:28   Link #75
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Okay looking over back at Protoculture history in Macross 7.

* The Protoculture were spilt into 2 factions.

* The Zentradi were used for proxy warfare.

* One side developed the Evil series to destroy the Zentradi but was possesed by the extradimensional Protodevlin.

* The Supervision Army came to be because of the Protodevlin.



Looking at the patterns it became a three way warfare.

The Protoculture were wiped out by the massive spiritia drain by Gepelnitch save for a few that possesed Anima Spiritia that managed to seal them.

It was never said that the Protoculture reunited.

So the Vajra may be one of the super weapons project of one of the sides of the conflict.

Likely not those who developed the Evil series.
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Old 2008-04-29, 06:48   Link #76
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With recent news... time to speculate... Ranka gets fired from Nyan Nyan... and gets a job at Pizza Hut instead!
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Old 2008-04-29, 12:08   Link #77
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
With recent news... time to speculate... Ranka gets fired from Nyan Nyan... and gets a job at Pizza Hut instead!
LOL!



i hope not, nipple breast meat buns FTW
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Old 2008-04-29, 13:35   Link #78
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Another completely without backing speculation. I think Leon will invite another military contractor to the Macross Frontier in order to not only snub Omza but to introduce the mysterious fighter that might have a better standard weapons load out than the VF-25
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Old 2008-04-29, 15:20   Link #79
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Another completely without backing speculation. I think Leon will invite another military contractor to the Macross Frontier in order to not only snub Omza but to introduce the mysterious fighter that might have a better standard weapons load out than the VF-25
yay for competitive market?
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Old 2008-04-30, 15:54   Link #80
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Talking

Lately I have been thinking... what if the decisive battle involves Alto having to do the Kabuki-dance?

Heh.
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