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Old 2008-04-25, 19:10   Link #101
Bananoha
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Originally Posted by Kaijin View Post
Does anyone know the two groups that have subbed this so far. Are they good? I've seen releases from Euthanasia and TSHNN. I've never heard of them, so I was just wondering?
I haven't heard of them either, but I prefer Euthanasia over TSHNN so far. Their font is easier on my eyes, I think they translated a few more things [like the book at the beginning] and they at least had the OP/ED translated as well.

I'm just happy someone actually subbed an episode before the series ended. The main characters interactions with each other and the artwork alone is enough to make me want to continue watching. It's just nice to know what's actually going on now.

And much like many other people watching the show, I still can't help but feel like Za Paper will randomly pop up somewhere.
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Old 2008-04-25, 20:26   Link #102
Molenir
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Quote:
And much like many other people watching the show, I still can't help but feel like Za Paper will randomly pop up somewhere.
lol, I thought that same exact thing when I saw the first episode. Doesn't seem likely now having watched 3 episodes, but maybe in a background scene or something. That would be cool!
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Old 2008-04-25, 23:22   Link #103
DragoonKain3
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Maybe it's because of the subs, or it's because of it being another culture, but I really couldn't take seriously the conflict between the two groups. Setting up armed forces, even essentially the equivalent of SWAT teams to protect against censorship? Where it's local gov't versus nationwide gov't? That's just absurd for me, and for a show that looks like they're trying to be serious, that's a negative in my book.

That said, I've found the interaction between the two leads interesting. And considering romance is really the only thing that keeps me interested in shows, that's all that matters I guess.
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Old 2008-04-25, 23:22   Link #104
Ashlotte
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Interesting premise excuted kindof...well...sloppily is the word ill shoot for here...

I guess the show errs more on the goofy side considering the manic pacing that never seems to want to let you catch your breath coupled with the sudden and frequent animation shifts.

Can't say as I'm fond of the drill sergeant mostly from the bathroom scene...She had it well in hand then he bursts in behind distracting then charging her completely throwing her off balance and it becomes her fault, thus slap worthy, that the situation got out of hand? I guess theres something to be said about not becoming distracted during an arrest, but when your the source of the distraction I think that kinda negates your right to get preachy and strike someone...*shrug*

Ah well ill stick it out for abit and see if the pacing calms down some. Also want to see what they'll do with the MIA guys...specifically I hope they get to rise above being petty "Bad guys" taking little girls picture books and the like...
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Old 2008-04-25, 23:50   Link #105
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Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
Maybe it's because of the subs, or it's because of it being another culture, but I really couldn't take seriously the conflict between the two groups. Setting up armed forces, even essentially the equivalent of SWAT teams to protect against censorship? Where it's local gov't versus nationwide gov't? That's just absurd for me, and for a show that looks like they're trying to be serious, that's a negative in my book.

That said, I've found the interaction between the two leads interesting. And considering romance is really the only thing that keeps me interested in shows, that's all that matters I guess.
The whole idea about that seem rather dumb to me as well it just didn't make much sense to me. Well other then whole setup I liked the characters from what I've seen in the first episode lol didn't expect the main guy to be smaller then the main girl.
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Old 2008-04-26, 00:10   Link #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3
Maybe it's because of the subs, or it's because of it being another culture, but I really couldn't take seriously the conflict between the two groups. Setting up armed forces, even essentially the equivalent of SWAT teams to protect against censorship? Where it's local gov't versus nationwide gov't? That's just absurd for me, and for a show that looks like they're trying to be serious, that's a negative in my book.
Other than the fact that information is much more difficult to restrict today (thanks to the Internet), the premise isn't as far fetched as you may think. The Media Improvement Brigade was probably just one step away from burning objectionable books, had the Library Protection Act not been created. As for why the hostility had escalated into a full-scale war, you'll get some background in the following episodes, especially in Ep3. Suffice to say there was no turning back once the conflict created its first matyrs.

That, and of course, which real-life librarian wouldn't love to carry guns in the defence of books? We all have our pet fantasies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Molenir
I definitely had issues with episode 3. What are they shooting, rubber bullets? No one ever seems to get hit, despite the millions of bullets being fired. How ludicrous was that. This is a military organization?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijin
Does anyone know the two groups that have subbed this so far. Are they good? I've seen releases from Euthanasia and TSHNN. I've never heard of them, so I was just wondering?
The Subber Has No Name (TSHNN), rofl. It's not surprising you've not heard of them before. I reckon a few people volunteered their time since none of the major fansubbing groups seem interested in this show. I haven't seen Euthanasia's sub yet (woohoo, now there's two!), so I can't compare the quality, but nonetheless, I'll like to thank both groups heartily for making the effort.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimichi
Can't say as I'm fond of the drill sergeant mostly from the bathroom scene...She had it well in hand then he bursts in behind distracting then charging her completely throwing her off balance and it becomes her fault, thus slap worthy, that the situation got out of hand? I guess theres something to be said about not becoming distracted during an arrest, but when your the source of the distraction I think that kinda negates your right to get preachy and strike someone...
On the contrary, I think Dojo was completely justified in striking Kasahara. It's called tough love. Kasahara wasn't taking her duties seriously and treated it like some kind of game, which is what pisses Dojo. He's being a lot harder on her because he has noticed her potential and is therefore trying to push her in the right direction. All in all, I agree with Shibasaki's assessment - Dojo is actually a fine example of an officer and a gentleman.

On a sidenote, I was amused that Dojo preferred to eat at the NCO canteen rather than the officers' mess. I'm also a lietuenant in my country's armed forces, and I can well understand how uncomfortable it is to sit with senior officers (majors and above). Most of the time, we have nothing in common, but I'm forced to engage in small talk out of politeness and deference to their higher ranks. I'll rather sit with the men, but that would not be proper etiquette for an officer. Being in command can often be a lonely business.
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Old 2008-04-26, 00:38   Link #107
Molenir
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All in all, I agree with Shibasaki's assessment - Dojo is actually a fine example of an officer and a gentleman.
I agree, that smack in the face was a perfect example of an Officer and a Gentleman. Or not. Try punching one of your subordinates, particularly if you happen to command a female subordinate. No doubt she'll feel the same way you do, that its just tough love. Either that you'll be up on charges before you can blink.
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Old 2008-04-26, 00:55   Link #108
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^ Tsk, tsk, tsk. I'm not going to pick a fight over this. It's the military, and if you expect to be pampered while you're in uniform, you're not fit for battle. Don't even get me started on what I truly feel about all the "care for soldier" nonsense that my country has been force-feeding into the military system.

There's a very stark difference between physically abusing a subordinate for personal entertainment and physically disciplining a soldier. That's all I'm getting at, in the end.

Last edited by TinyRedLeaf; 2008-04-26 at 04:42. Reason: typos
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Old 2008-04-26, 02:59   Link #109
Impz
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Wow, the blog went down for 24 hour and I cannot blog on this at all. Glad it came out and Episode 3 summary + screenshots is done. I have finished ep 2 (still need to edit, typeset and all the fansub jazz), and translating ep 3.

Was told that other fansubs are doing it, and I should not do it. So no more translation from me. ^^
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Last edited by Impz; 2008-04-26 at 08:48.
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Old 2008-04-26, 06:36   Link #110
SuperKnuckles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
Maybe it's because of the subs, or it's because of it being another culture, but I really couldn't take seriously the conflict between the two groups. Setting up armed forces, even essentially the equivalent of SWAT teams to protect against censorship? Where it's local gov't versus nationwide gov't? That's just absurd for me, and for a show that looks like they're trying to be serious, that's a negative in my book.

That said, I've found the interaction between the two leads interesting. And considering romance is really the only thing that keeps me interested in shows, that's all that matters I guess.
Considering this IS anime, I wouldn't really put the onus on anyone for trying to be excessively realistic. But the idea of a federalized government going against local governments isn't as crazy as people tends to think. Just that such issues usually don't end up becoming a real combative war. But maybe if such censorship issues keep blowing up in the future, it might not be so absurd or impossible, as sad as that'd be.

BTW, the first ep was pretty damn good. The lead girl is HUGE for a girl, especially an Asian one and her Kana (Minami-ke) voice is showing. Which is a plus.
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Old 2008-04-26, 09:20   Link #111
Impz
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Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles View Post
Considering this IS anime, I wouldn't really put the onus on anyone for trying to be excessively realistic. But the idea of a federalized government going against local governments isn't as crazy as people tends to think. Just that such issues usually don't end up becoming a real combative war. But maybe if such censorship issues keep blowing up in the future, it might not be so absurd or impossible, as sad as that'd be.

BTW, the first ep was pretty damn good. The lead girl is HUGE for a girl, especially an Asian one and her Kana (Minami-ke) voice is showing. Which is a plus.
Yep. I think that she really did a very good job with the voice. It's spunky and uplifting, fitting Kasahara completely. I do hope that they will leave the complicated stuff alone because people who are not familiar with the field of information control will find it completely surreal and unrealistic.

It's possible, but I got lazy of explaning for the umpteen time ^^
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Old 2008-04-26, 12:07   Link #112
Kai Yukari
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^____^ Yey finally the thread is no longer in the unaired section (jumps for joy). I keep seeing random posts talking about how they think the story is stupid when it's not T______T why isn't this getting any love?
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Old 2008-04-26, 12:58   Link #113
DragoonKain3
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The very fact that the local gov't can put into effect a law that's effective for the entire nation is what really made me facepalm the hardest. If they can do that, then they're really just another federal gov't. And considering that the 'local' military organization in which the main characters belong to (which seems to be uniform across the country no less *cough*federal*cough*) has its foundation based on that silly law, then I really can't take the premise of this show seriously.

If this anime was about two rival political parties fighting each other, then I would treat this anime more seriously. But so far that does not just includes the above, everything that's been shown in eps 1 goes against the government and political system that I know of. But hey, what do I know of the system of Japan, right?
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Old 2008-04-26, 13:51   Link #114
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Lol, the difference of opinion is fine. I'm not sure the extent to which Library Protection Act is "federal", and the extent to which the various library corps work together. It's likely to be a detail that won't be covered in the anime.

I won't deny the premise requires heavy suspension of disbelief, but frankly, which anime doesn't? I mean, if we have no problems with fox- and wolf-girls fighting over a wimpy shouta, no problems with a tough guy who kills with a single bullet from two kilometres away, no problems with an inexperienced mediator who is nonetheless entrusted with protecting a very spoilt heiress, why the major problems with suspending disbelief over library wars? Only because it's supposed to be "serious" drama? Methinks there is a bit of double standards at work here.

Different strokes for different people. That's the way the world turns for all of us, after all.

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But hey, what do I know of the system of Japan, right?
Anyways, to address a part of the difficulty, perhaps it's worth thinking further about the Japanese context of this story. Vexx can probably provide much better background than I can, but I'll talk about what little I do know.

The best specific example I can use is the disagreement between Japan's Education Ministry and its Teachers' Union. As many of you probably know, there are many fiercely nationalistic people in the upper echelons of the Japanese government who would like to revise Japanese history textbooks, to downplay or whitewash accounts of Japanese atrocities during WWII. To them, such accounts are unpatriotic and disrespectful towards the "heroes" who gave their lives for their country. We saw such sentiments during Abe's brief tenure as Prime Minister. He wanted to introduce stronger "patriotic" education in Japanese schools, to make Japanese youth proud of their country again, after a decade of debilitating stagnation.

Now, here's the catch. While the Education Ministry is empowered to compile a list of "recommended" history textbooks, it is up to each individual school to decide which books they would actually want to use. As it turns out, the nationwide Teachers' Union is opposed to the government's attempt to revise history. The organisation represents teachers who believe in the necessity of presenting the truths as they really are. The Union, as far as I know, is not a government organisation, but it apparently holds significant clout over the decision of which textbooks a school would actually use.

So, on a national level, it is actually possible that every school in Japan teaches a different curriculum, depending on what the teaching staff deems best for its students. The national government may recommend, but it cannot enforce its recommendations at ground level.

But things apparently don't look rosy for the Teachers' Union, because the more thuggish elements of the nationalistic faction have resorted to intimidation tactics to scare incalcitrant schools into submission. It's no secret that the yakuza are ultra-nationalists with close links to the national government, for example, so you can well imagine what kinds of tactics they would use.

And it doesn't help that the national government enjoys popular support among many other equally powerful right-leaning organisations. The farming lobby in Japan is very fiercely "nationalistic" in its own way, as is the even more powerful construction lobby. On a national scale, left-leaning moderates like the Teachers' Union are fighting a losing battle.

The average Japanese today may seem like peace-loving people, especially those in the south, specifically the people of Hiroshima, but you don't have to scratch very far beneath the surface to discover an uglier side of the Japanese pysche. Most Japanese nonchalantly believe that there is something "unique" about being Japanese. That's why the country, as a whole, is very resistant to the idea of allowing more immigration into Japan, even though it would do their ailing economy a world of good. They unconsciously fear that doing so would dilute the uniqueness of their culture.

Most of such fears are born out of ignorance, but its frightening to think how easily they can turn into something more sinister. All it would take is for a charismatic ultra-right-winger, such as Taro Aso, to take power, and we could well see a lot of disturbing things unfold. The balance between left- and right-wing elements in Japan is actually more fragile than many of us can imagine.

That's why I personally feel the premise presented in Toshokan Sensou is not as far-fetched as you may think. On the surface, it seems like a silly struggle over books (who reads books nowadays? we've got the Internetz!). Look at it from another angle, and you'd soon realise that it's actually a sly satire about present conditions in Japan.

Last edited by TinyRedLeaf; 2008-04-26 at 17:41. Reason: for the history and current affairs update.
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Old 2008-04-26, 16:16   Link #115
Ashlotte
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Yea I wouldn't treat it seriously Dragoon...I sure didn't. Not really anything to do with the basic premise, but more just the way characters behave, the dialogs, and the animation styles employed just kinda screamed silly to me...

Ofcourse I may be completely wrong and it i'll suddenly turn dark or something midway, which would be nice. Still not expecting much of anything thought provoking though.
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Old 2008-04-26, 17:01   Link #116
Slice of Life
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Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
The very fact that the local gov't can put into effect a law that's effective for the entire nation is what really made me facepalm the hardest. If they can do that, then they're really just another federal gov't. And considering that the 'local' military organization in which the main characters belong to (which seems to be uniform across the country no less *cough*federal*cough*) has its foundation based on that silly law, then I really can't take the premise of this show seriously.
If that's your only problem ...

It's in no way strange that constituent states of a federation harmonize their legislation either via following an informal, de facto standard or via a formal treaty between them. Uniforms are a prime example. Because in the end it doesn't really matter how they look like and people (voters) might be interested that a policeman looks like a policeman everywhere.

And we actually don't know if the situation is really the same everywhere.

I agree with you though that the whole idea of book protection squads cannot be taken serious but I don't think it's meant to. When taken literally that is. It's an allegory.
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Old 2008-04-26, 18:01   Link #117
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I thought the 1st ep was fairly good, I just hope it gets more intense from now on
The animation is good and sometimes really funny
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Old 2008-04-26, 20:15   Link #118
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this show reminds me of Read Or Die.

British Librarian Army coming in with super-powered agents. substitute a more Asian outlook, regular army and hated civil government workers.

Talk about Ian effing Flemming.

But i really like it, it's like a legalised urban warfare taking the place of what would normally happen between criminal gangs, but in this case it's between nazi government officials and Librarians who still have to learn to classify books and references. lolol.

heh. books, worth dying for indeed.

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Old 2008-04-26, 23:23   Link #119
Vexx
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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Anyways, to address a part of the difficulty, perhaps it's worth thinking further about the Japanese context of this story. Vexx can probably provide much better background than I can, but I'll talk about what little I do know.
....
Oooh, nicely done. No, that's exactly the thing I see this series poking sticks at.
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Old 2008-04-27, 17:51   Link #120
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lol. that roommate of the heroine, she's blast.

also quite impressed over the authentic depiction of feminine vanity, which is sadly glossed over in many series.

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