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Old 2008-04-28, 08:00   Link #1201
Keroko
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Among others, even in the DVD version, in which the far-off shots are more forcefull and faster, there is still the 'acute deceleration' whenever we get a close-up on the face, so unless Fate and Tre can decelerate and re-acelerate in the timespan of zero seconds (and why the hell would they do that?), this again proves my point.
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Old 2008-04-28, 09:31   Link #1202
arkhangelsk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Or it could mean that the defences can be used with the Barrier generated by the Jacket, as we saw absolutely no visible Barrier present.
Oh, by that standard, Barrier jackets don't have barriers. We don't see it either.

Quote:
Though I do wonder what the booklet has to say about this:
Spoiler for Hide your images:
(or is this the booklet that you translated?)
That's the translated section. Match up the katakana.

Quote:
As for the PM, I found one more piece to debunk your 'stadias determine all' ground. Remember Nanoha's shot in 07? Remember how you said that according to stadia that shot was only 16 m/s?
Ahh, man, you don't even know what you are attacking. The stadia is to calculate distance. The time is counted (with six seconds, there's little point in frame nitpicking), D/T=V.

Quote:
The booklet data clearly states that Divine Buster Extension has 'shocking speed' now, we've seen magic in Nanoha that move a lot faster, and yet DBE is noted to have shocking speed? This makes no sense if we listen to stadias, yet if we follow animation techniques, and simply say that the shot was slowed for dramatic effect, then lot of things start to make sense.

For one, the speed was indeed 'shocking', bridging the distance between Nanoha and Vita in a flash.

Secondly, it also explains why Vita, a battle hardened veteran, didn't just sidestep the attack, she never had the chance to do so.
Leaving aside the speed of the round for a moment, Vita should have been taking evasive action while Nanoha was charging. What kind of battle vet does nothing while the enemy charges. Or do you want to time compress the charge time too? Come to think of it, what kind of battle vet does not try to conceal herself when doing a time wasting maneuver? There are plenty of woods down there...

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See? Things that simply look moronic following stadia suddenly make perfect sense.
Claiming Animation Technique is a request to throw away a piece of evidence. A solution made using this method is never "perfect".

Anyway, something has to bend.

"Shocking speed". For what? For 99% of the battle mages (remember that we are tracking the story of the 3 top mages, so we'll see a disproportionate percentage of "absurd" or "shocking" abiliities)? For a round of such power? For a round that has to reach the "extreme" distance? Maybe it is just the opinion of the writer of the Magical Dictionary? If the "battle vet" Vita can be excused for not thinking a shot can be made that far at all, could not the Dictionary's writer be excused for using overly optimistic adjectives* for the speed?

*The Dictionary's writer is explicitly known not to be omniniscent - not the author, for example. Regularly appearing in both the A's and StrikerS' dictionary are terms like "X is thought to be" and even "completely unknown" (see the bottom of the same page you are looking at). While it makes it an authority in SoD terms, it also says that on any item, it can simply be wrong, especially if the anime clearly shows otherwise...

"But you are just shafting the Dictionary instead of the Anime!" Maybe, but since we are explicitly told that the Dictionary is imperfect, it is automatically subordinate to the nominally perfect anime if they conflict anyway. At least I'm trying to give it some SoD context, unlike Keroko, who is eager to shaft the anime. In short, Keroko might have a King, but I have an Ace in my hand

By the way, in being very eager to score a blow on stadia ranging - even though the best his argument could hope for is to score a blow on timing, Keroko missed a chance to win the Ace as well, thus taking a jackpot which includes something I know he wants. If the answer is not obvious, do spend a few minutes before clicking "Show spoiler" if you wish to see it:
Spoiler for The answer:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Among others, even in the DVD version, in which the far-off shots are more forcefull and faster, there is still the 'acute deceleration' whenever we get a close-up on the face, so unless Fate and Tre can decelerate and re-acelerate in the timespan of zero seconds (and why the hell would they do that?), this again proves my point.
Remember what is the base and what is moving. Hint: The close-ups are key.
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Old 2008-04-28, 09:47   Link #1203
Kikaifan
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Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
Yes, and how much energy remained after it penetrated the barrier? For all we can tell, it tapped the jacket.
If this is the case, the margin by which Nanoha escaped death was incredibly slight. The character reactions don't fit with that interpretation at all.

More to the point, if the conditions of victory are damaging her barrier jacket and half the people involved in the training (and the two most likely to penetrate her barriers in the first place) use physical weapons, under the 'barrier jackets are tissue' view she's designed a test that is almost impossible to complete without killing or seriously wounding her.

(Of course, there was the 'avoid all her shots' alternate victory condition, but like Teana said the timing of the test makes that the much more difficult option)
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Old 2008-04-28, 10:45   Link #1204
arkhangelsk
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If this is the case, the margin by which Nanoha escaped death was incredibly slight. The character reactions don't fit with that interpretation at all.

More to the point, if the conditions of victory are damaging her barrier jacket and half the people involved in the training (and the two most likely to penetrate her barriers in the first place) use physical weapons, under the 'barrier jackets are tissue' view she's designed a test that is almost impossible to complete without killing or seriously wounding her.

(Of course, there was the 'avoid all her shots' alternate victory condition, but like Teana said the timing of the test makes that the much more difficult option)
Unless she's very confident in her ability to see the blow coming and blast the practice opponent away. I'll argue that the fact she used Barrier Burst is a sign of what a close game it really is.

It is virtually certain that had Nanoha put slightly more force into her BB and activated it earlier (that is to say, if this is her wish), she could have bounced Erio off without Erio touching her jacket, so it clearly wasn't meant to stop him completely. So why bother doing that half-a*sed job with the BB? Unless the BJ is not really that protective, so she has to blast Erio so he gets to just graze the jacket. Erio wasn't even sure that he actually hit anything, though there should be some feedback had he struck something in significant strength. Of course, for the last point, I'm sure Keroko will have a better idea than me.
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Old 2008-04-28, 11:06   Link #1205
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Keep in mind that Elio's also using a down-powered Strada, without all of its capabilities unlocked. It could be that a full-power Strada, outside of a practice match, would have been able to do the job in that circumstance, and thus Nanoha gave him credit for a proper approach and execution.

Why'd she bother? She's training them, not bullying them. Setting challenge after challenge that the trainees have no chance in hell of accomplishing would be disastrous to morale, after all. We also know from other episodes that Nanoha isn't afraid to take a cut to make a point if she feels she has to (or, for that mattter, has any compunction about kicking the ever-living hell out of one of the trainees if they go off the rails...)
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Old 2008-04-28, 15:31   Link #1206
Kikaifan
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Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
Unless she's very confident in her ability to see the blow coming and blast the practice opponent away. I'll argue that the fact she used Barrier Burst is a sign of what a close game it really is.

It is virtually certain that had Nanoha put slightly more force into her BB and activated it earlier (that is to say, if this is her wish), she could have bounced Erio off without Erio touching her jacket, so it clearly wasn't meant to stop him completely. So why bother doing that half-a*sed job with the BB? Unless the BJ is not really that protective, so she has to blast Erio so he gets to just graze the jacket. Erio wasn't even sure that he actually hit anything, though there should be some feedback had he struck something in significant strength. Of course, for the last point, I'm sure Keroko will have a better idea than me.
The way I'm reading your scenario is that a rocket (a slow rocket, but still) is coming at Nanoha and she creates an explosion in front of herself at precisely the right time with precisely the right amount of force that it touches- but does not penetrate and is subsequently repelled from- her clothing. I know she's supposed to be amazing at the magic stuff but that strikes me as improbably difficult.

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By the way, it is just more proof that active defenses can be erected without necessary being blatantly obvious with huge magical circles, or incantations, or devices talking
While I'm perfectly happy with the conclusion that they can activate their defenses in less time than it takes their device to say the name of the spell, I can only see this incident as further evidence that my faith in the Great Eternal Invisible Barrier, hallowed be its name, is not misplaced.
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Old 2008-04-28, 15:35   Link #1207
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While I'm perfectly happy with the conclusion that they can activate their defenses in less time than it takes their device to say the name of the spell, I can only see this incident as further evidence that my faith in the Great Eternal Invisible Barrier, hallowed be its name, is not misplaced.
Amen. Go in the grace of the henshin, young disciple.
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Old 2008-04-28, 18:42   Link #1208
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Originally Posted by Kikaifan View Post
The way I'm reading your scenario is that a rocket (a slow rocket, but still) is coming at Nanoha and she creates an explosion in front of herself at precisely the right time with precisely the right amount of force that it touches- but does not penetrate and is subsequently repelled from- her clothing. I know she's supposed to be amazing at the magic stuff but that strikes me as improbably difficult.
.
Given her visual cues just before hand, I'd say she LET him scratch her jacket, however improbable it may seem. She may not be a super computer, but Raising Heart isn't exactly a TI-80 Calculator here.

Give him JUST enough give to make it to the jacket, but blow off enough energy to stop him from hitting harder, so that they can gain a little confidence that "Hey! We can do this!"
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Old 2008-04-28, 19:36   Link #1209
Kikaifan
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I'm completely with you on her letting him hit the jacket to build their confidence. I just think letting it hit makes way more sense if the line between 'complete deflection' and 'spear through the chest' isn't micron-thin.

But yeah, I guess if the device is doing most of the work that kind of precision becomes more believable. I recall Ark saying that the thing she used at the end of episode 1 was supposed to work like that, using the device to work out an appropriate counter-force... though I also recall that he wasn't too happy about it.
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Old 2008-05-03, 10:41   Link #1210
Jimmy C
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Many dimensions or one?

Here's something new from a discussion on the IRC channel. Are all the different worlds seen in Nanoha so far in the same universe or not?
From Yuuno's explaination in season 1's ep 8, it's possible. But with seasons 2 and 3, I think not.
The most important evidence, to me, is the Wolkies teleporting to other worlds to collect Linker Cores in A's. They do it so casually, teleport out, whack the target, get home for dinner. If all those worlds were in the same universe, ours, that would mean they can teleport light-years, with ease! Given that they're working on an energy budget (or they wouldn't need to collect Cores in the first place) and even teleporting the BoD's defense program a few hundred kms above the Earth required considerable effort, that strikes me as unlikely.
However, if those worlds are across the dimensional sea and seperated by a "virtual distance" of only a few thousand to a few million km, I feel the energy levels are more in line with what we've seen so far.
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Old 2008-05-03, 11:16   Link #1211
Keroko
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Hmm? I don't see why its even questioned that the events happen in different dimensions. After all, what is the use of basing a show around multiple dimensions if everything happens in the same dimension? For that matter, what is the proof that everything is happening in our dimension?
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Old 2008-05-03, 12:11   Link #1212
Kikaifan
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I've always taken for granted ever since the first season used the term 'adjacent dimensions' that the dimensional sea isn't just a plain hyperspace analogue- either its very warped and rearranges the universe into a very different topography for those who use it to travel, or it connects what we would consider different universes entirely.
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Old 2008-05-03, 12:16   Link #1213
Jimmy C
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Well, some were wondering if "many dimensions" was a mistranslation. It isn't , by the way.
Then, there are those in the OC discussion that are setting parts of their stories specifically in different parts of the galaxy. This, I think, is a violation of canon. The Bureau has never shown FTL starship travel within a dimension before.
Evidence within the show suggests that Midchilda's civilization, and the destroyed civilizations before it, did not possess FTL interstellar travel and instead colonized habitable worlds in other dimensions within interplanetary distances across the dimensional sea.
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Old 2008-05-03, 12:24   Link #1214
Keroko
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*shrug* but then again, by using dimensional travel, they can bypass FTL altogether.

If one looks at how the dimensional sea looks, it really is a 'sea' with all the worlds being the many 'islands'

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Old 2008-05-03, 12:36   Link #1215
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*shrug* but then again, by using dimensional travel, they can bypass FTL altogether.

If one looks at how the dimensional sea looks, it really is a 'sea' with all the worlds being the many 'islands'

Gah. The way I understood it was that the dimensional sea was like slipspace, sorta, in that you used it to get between worlds - sorta like it's out of phase with our reality/dimension/existence/what-have-you, and allows ships to travel much much faster between systems, with stars being natural anchor points, or rather, islands in the sea.

*me headdesks*

Sorry guys, but screw this all. I'm going to go and sleep.
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Old 2008-05-03, 12:44   Link #1216
Jimmy C
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but then again, by using dimensional travel, they can bypass FTL altogether.
Such "bypass" is a form of FTL travel by itself. Also, how the Bureau has been shown to trace, or try to at least, teleport destinations suggests that teleportation magic isn't just punching a hole into dimensional space and navigating to your destination from there.
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If one looks at how the dimensional sea looks, it really is a 'sea' with all the worlds being the many 'islands'
I prefer to think of that scene as an analogy for Nanoha at the time. Also, those nodes could represent entire universes just as easily, even though Lindy does use "worlds".

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The way I understood it was that the dimensional sea was like slipspace, sorta, in that you used it to get between worlds
It's not that that isn't a valid interpetation, but if all the worlds seen in Nanoha are in the same universe and seperated by light-years instead of dimensions, then the Wolkies exhibited an incredible ability in A's. Pinpoint interstellar teleportation. Yet, that doesn't raise any eyebrows among the Bureau personnel at the time. In fact, they have roughly the same ability.
Yet, if interstellar teleportation was this easy, it would have a significant impact on the Bureau's operations. For one thing, they wouldn't really need starships in the first place!
Therefore, I feel that having all the worlds shown in Nanoha being in the same universe is actually more difficult than having them in different universes.

Last edited by Jimmy C; 2008-05-03 at 13:46.
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Old 2008-05-03, 13:31   Link #1217
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For me it's like Seinarukana-verse. There are many universe, within planets. Between the universe is the dimensional sea where the TSAB ships use to travel between universe.
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Old 2008-05-04, 03:05   Link #1218
Kikaifan
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It's not that that isn't a valid interpetation, but if all the worlds seen in Nanoha are in the same universe and seperated by light-years instead of dimensions, then the Wolkies exhibited an incredible ability in A's. Pinpoint interstellar teleportation. Yet, that doesn't raise any eyebrows among the Bureau personnel at the time. In fact, they have roughly the same ability.
Yet, if interstellar teleportation was this easy, it would have a significant impact on the Bureau's operations. For one thing, they wouldn't really need starships in the first place!
Therefore, I feel that having all the worlds shown in Nanoha being in the same universe is actually more difficult than having them in different universes.
Starships vs personal transportation could just be a range or cargo issue. I have the same view as you, but I don't think the Wolkenritter ability makes it all that inevitable.

Plus I think I remember it being stated somewhere that the Wolkenritter's interdimensional transference is an unusual ability that they were granted by the Book.
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Old 2008-05-04, 03:15   Link #1219
Keroko
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Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
Such "bypass" is a form of FTL travel by itself. Also, how the Bureau has been shown to trace, or try to at least, teleport destinations suggests that teleportation magic isn't just punching a hole into dimensional space and navigating to your destination from there.
Well, S1 shows that your can directly transfer somewhere if you have the co÷rdinates. Also, A's shows that there is a limit to how far one can transfer (that's how they knew earth was the center of things, there already had been several attacks, and tracing them they found earth to be the center).

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I prefer to think of that scene as an analogy for Nanoha at the time. Also, those nodes could represent entire universes just as easily, even though Lindy does use "worlds".
I actually meant universes. Well, dimensions, really. The word 'world' is rather ambigious, it can reffer to a planet, or an entire dimension. I think Lindy was reffering to a dimension here.

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It's not that that isn't a valid interpetation, but if all the worlds seen in Nanoha are in the same universe and seperated by light-years instead of dimensions, then the Wolkies exhibited an incredible ability in A's. Pinpoint interstellar teleportation. Yet, that doesn't raise any eyebrows among the Bureau personnel at the time. In fact, they have roughly the same ability.
Yet, if interstellar teleportation was this easy, it would have a significant impact on the Bureau's operations. For one thing, they wouldn't really need starships in the first place!
Starships are basically remote bases in Nanoha anyway. They function as mobile bases of operation and relay points for teleportation. It has already been proven that bureau ships are not required for dimensional travel by both of the first seasons of Nanoha.

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Starships vs personal transportation could just be a range or cargo issue. I have the same view as you, but I don't think the Wolkenritter ability makes it all that inevitable.

Plus I think I remember it being stated somewhere that the Wolkenritter's interdimensional transference is an unusual ability that they were granted by the Book.
Hmm, that was actually about transfer magic not being a typically Belkan spell. It had nothing to do with how special the abillity is.
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Old 2008-05-06, 03:02   Link #1220
Keroko
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Pardon the double post, but once again a conversation popped up in the OC thread.

I really should stop doing this.


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Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
It doesn't change the fact that it is a far cry from "never lose", which was Tk's point from the manga.
Granted, never lose was symbolic, but that does not change 'best choice'

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Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
Probably a matter of it being a nice even pressure versus a differential pressure? Anyway, if things that don't "make sense" to you get deleted, can I delete such scenes as the slamming scenes on the grounds that it makes no sense at all from a realistic point of view? Or the high speed scenes?
Movement is even pressure now?

All right, so I grant you that scene. Where does that bring us? At a controdictionairy point. Barrier Jackets are worn for defence, but apparently they are useless defending against puffs of wind from flying bugs. Whgich brings us where?

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Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
Granting this is true, remember A = F / M. If M increases, A decreases while F stays the same.
.... blank line.

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Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
Given an adequately thin and brittle piece of metal, even a low velocity ball can do the job. It is obvious that this is a sign of the Gadget Drone's cheap construction - don't laugh; look at Rein for a sense of perspective.
Hmm, that is true.

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Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
Two SoD-compatible alternatives:
1) Flash Move can just last a little longer than we think it can.
2) There was indeed Time Manipulation. I don't have to remind you which one gets kept and which one gets shifted.
Following your logic, the fast movement scenes are locked by sound though. Heck, the scene in 16:51 even has nice sparkling sounds that don't change as soon as Nanoha starts talking.

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Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
I don't know about Tk, but I accept Bullet Time. I don't accept Bullet Time with voices.
Happens all the time in anime though.

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Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
It did. They were very careful to shut the characters up for it (in fact, it was just about silent, thus freeing the arc for very high time manipulation ratios), too. (Similarly, in the scenes I suspect are sped up, they don't talk too).
And the rest of the sounds don't matter anymore?

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Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
As the JS dive bombed? Same here. As Nanoha eeped, she covered herself at a speed which is within arc of normal human motion, thus showing that the voice-timelock is active and we've snapped to normal speed. It also shows that 7Arcs doesn't think you need a scene transition before you change speeds.
Hmm, good point.

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Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
Where the kid caught the ball? Looks like normal time to me.
If people falling to the ground slowly is normal.

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Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
That wasn't even an action scene. Fate is muttering all over the place. It is clearly normal time. Do you mean 17:05? Still in human range...
Bleh, my bad. I meant 16:05 in episode 03. Granted its a flashbacks, and there are no voices, but its still slow motion.

Anyway, my point of these scenes was to show the existence of bullet time in Nanoha, not break your voice-lock. I'll start looking for scenes that do that in a minute.

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Well, now tell me. In how many of them were they stupid enough to mix time manipulation with voices.
Scene 4:57 in episode 8 comes to mind. Not only is Fate moving in slow-motion, but we have faster then normal moving magic rounds too.

18:20 in episode 9 shows Nanoha dodging lightning bolts, which are obviously slowed (heck, in later scenes they apear and disapear instantly) and this scene was also voiced.

6:18 in episode 11 is another, in the middle of a Flash Move -which we know goes fast- Nanoha is yelling, again showing the inexistence of Voice-Lock.

6:45 in the same episode shows faster then normal magic rounds (as well as instantly raised shields. Interesting notion, very usefull.)

15:46 in 11 has a nice slow motion scene of a grunt being knocked back by Precia. Voiced.

Episode 12 also has a scene that shows why Voice-lock is useless. At 11:55 a sword is headed for Nanoha, after which we cut to a shot of Bardiche. If we count that scene as chronoligically accurate, then Nanoha should have been cut in half by that time. Obviously she wasn't, so despite the scene being voiced, it was still faster then it should have been.

Whew, well that's all I could pick out when speed-watching S1. Haven't started A's yet, much less StrikerS, but with so many examples lining up in the first season alone, I'd say its safe to say Voice-Lock is busted.

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Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
2) Using confrontational methods, the dictionary, by its admitted imperfect and "dialogue" nature, almost automatically loses.
Admitted imperfect nature? Since when?

That aside, during the novel debate you were so insistent that he most recent source of canon is the one we should believe. With the booklets being the most recent source of canon, and the scenes explainable instead of outright changing, doesn't that sort of counter your earlier statements?

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Well, and here we see the power of rifle scopes and long barrels
<--- fails to see why long barrels should matter when the shots are formed outside the barrels.

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Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
See above. Consider mass. Consider fragility. Also consider that when they want 200m/s speeds, they show it. The one supersonic weapon they showed was justifiably supersonic onscreen. They know how to show fast and aren't afraid to show it (which is as it should be).

The problem is that from a analysis point of view, the time dimension of the slow scenes is much more fixed than those of the fast scenes (because Nanoverse characters jabber to each other so much). There will also be little point in having the devices talk if they really spend most of their time at the high speed - the time allowed to cast spells becomes so small.

Just try this on for plausibility.

Pho -- BAM -- ton -- BAM BAM BAM! Lan -- BAM -- BOOM KABOOM -- cer.
... You know, with all that I don't see why you're disagreeing with me? This shows exactly my point. There is no point in constantly showing the high-speed battles since it would take away all the character and storyline development, hence they slow down the action on-screen, but leave the far-off shots to prove that it is actually supposed to go a lot faster.

It's like how in many shounen anime, the characters are supposed to move 'faster then the eye can see' and yet we can still see them. Heck, they're even talking to eachother while moving at those speeds. Why? Because it'd make for a boring watch if we weren't able to see them fight.

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In other words, they do it.

Ahh, I finally see. You are arguing from a legalistic precedence point of view. And there I'll agree. There are definitely more slowdowns than speedups.
More like 'taught and self gained experience' roughly 30% of my grades are in animation. Scenes where speeds are attained that are not supposed to be the speeds that are atainable are comedic scenes, like characters dashing away from angry girls or the 'trail of dust' scenes and the like. Beyond comedic exceptions the general acceptance is 'the fastest speed we see on screen is the speed its supposed to be'

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Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
There are two problems with this.

1) There are far more slow scenes than high speed scenes, and the slow scenes are far more detailed. Thus, favoring the speedy scenes will be to favor the minority of evidence.
Although true (I can hardly deny this), I can see a high level of self-contradiction in this. After all, you use one scene of weakness in the Barrier Jackets to justify the 'Barrier Jackets are weak' argument yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
2) VTL. As long as a scene is NOT timelocked with detailed sounds (read: voices), it may be freely time compressed or dilated without affecting its canonicity. After all, scenes do not lose their canonicity when the zoom (magnification) changes, and what is "Bullet Time" but a magnification for easier viewing in the time dimension? It does affect our ability to extract data, but a scene does not become non-canon just because it cannot be satisfactorily ranged (say b/c of an unknown zoom factor), so the same applies in the time dimension.
Detailed sounds also include clashes, blasts, breaking surroundings and so forth and so forth, and yet you choose to ignore those. Besides, I think I already showed that applying Voice-Lock to animation is far from acurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
3) A scene that overtly breaks VTL, on the other hand, cannot be a representation (even a Increased Speed one) of reality. It is, by logical definition, a fake. It might be more fun to watch (fantasy is often more interesting than reality), but it is still a fake. Take the Clannad scene. The audience view is amusing, but ultimately, it is but a fake (as further proven by the fact that under close observation, the audience view is actually different, not just a slowed down version even if you ignore the audio). The spectator view is canon. As you can see, from an analytical point of view, the scene with voices always wins due to this basic principle of plausibility.
So as long as Voice-Lock does not apply, the scene is discardable? Nice way to rule out my claims of Voice-Lock not applying, but I'm not buying it. That's the pot calling the kettle black there.

You know, the most biggest difference between your logic and mine is that I don't discard scenes. I explain them. You, however, just blatantly said 'this scene is useless, it never happened'

And the part of it not being a representation of reallity is cute. Especially since I've been saying that all along. This is anime, animation, something created to entertain, to look cool, to look cute. It is not created with 'reallity' foremost in mind, ergo, comparing it with reallity is inherently flawed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arkhangelsk View Post
It is definitely homing though, Vita's ability to supplement it with her own guidance notwithstanding. At least RH thinks so (Ep 1, unless homing suddenly changed meaning in Mid), and it'll explain the clearly tailchase trajectory employed against Fate (Ep2), characteristic of primitive homing weapons that have not learnt the advantages of Proportional Navigation. The alternative is that the Vita-Graf Eisen Combat Complex put together don't have a clue about efficient trajectories.
Blah, thats true. I gotta stop making posts without propperly checking my sources. >_<

... Actually, I should stop doing this at all. How many times have we had this discussion now? Every time I plan to stop, something comes up and I start all over again.
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Last edited by Keroko; 2008-05-06 at 03:26.
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