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View Poll Results: Can a Man and a Women be Just Friends?
Yes 269 83.02%
No 55 16.98%
Voters: 324. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-05-05, 01:31   Link #41
Marina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae View Post
Kiss on the cheeks or on the lips?
Does it matter? I guess it does...hmmmm. I meant lips, but I think cheeks would work as well
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Old 2008-05-05, 01:33   Link #42
WanderingKnight
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Quote:
A friend is someone who will always be there when you're in trouble, a friend is someone someone who listens, someone who tells the truth about yourself and you appreciate it, someone who arrives unexpectedly, as you are going out and you want with all your heart to take them with you.
Well, that depends on your definition of friend.

A friend, for me, is someone I get along with and I can spend a nice time with. Spending time with me may or may not involve all of those things you listed. I don't care what you, your neighbor or society has to say about that.

And yes, I've got women that have done the things you mentioned for me and I never felt like having sex with them.

Quote:
Kiss on the cheeks or on the lips?
Well, kissing on the cheek around these parts is perfectly common and doesn't imply more than "Hey, I've met you more than once"
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Old 2008-05-05, 01:43   Link #43
Kang Seung Jae
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marina View Post
Does it matter? I guess it does...hmmmm. I meant lips, but I think cheeks would work as well
Well, it depends. My thoughts:



1) Cheek → Cheek: Normal

2) Lips → Cheek: Seems like guy isn't making a move

3) Lips → Lips: Pretty close relationship

4) Cheek → Lips: What the hell is the guy thinking?!?!?!
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Old 2008-05-05, 02:07   Link #44
james0246
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(I should start off by mentioning that I am an adult single heterosexual male, old enough to have been in at least one serious relationship (that lasted a few years). Because of this, I can only really address this discussion from a similiar position as myself.)

There seems to be some sort of belief, amongst several of the posters, that attraction (even the extreme of sex) will always end in relationships. This is simply not true. You can be attracted to your friends (even, if you are close enough, have sex with them) and not have it lead to a relationship. For a simple example, if you have been friends with a single woman long enough, she will sometimes ask you for help in regards to looking for a date or which clothing looks good etc. To give an honest answer, some semblence of attraction must be felt for the woman you are addressing (how can you tell her if she looks good if you do not actually thinks she looks good ), and I imagine that the reverse is also true (I am sure there is an entire conversation concerning the ability to recognise beauty and what that signifies, but I am too tired to write that discussion ). Just because you find her attractive does not indicate a relationship or necessarily a possible relationship (despite the many Hollywood romances to the contrary ).

Ultimately it is also an issue of propriety, or maybe more specifically being prudish vs. being open/whatever the antonym of prude would be and of course the culture you were raised in (these questions of kissing seem extremely silly to me, but to others they can be fairly important to relationship definitions/boudaries.)
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Old 2008-05-05, 02:10   Link #45
HayashiTakara
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I believe physical attraction plays a major role as well, but even if you think they are physically attractive, other things come into play as well. Like how your relationship is, if you're so close to each other that the thought of sleeping with them is almost as bad as sleeping with your brother/sister, then theres a good chance nothing will come out of it. But if you're not physically attracted to them, it makes it easier to be friends without the dangers of going further. I don't really care what everyone says but you HAVE to be attracted to them physically on some level for a relationship to work. Sex and physical intimacy is very important in a relationship.
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Old 2008-05-05, 02:19   Link #46
qtipbrit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae View Post
Well, it depends. My thoughts:



1) Cheek → Cheek: Normal

2) Lips → Cheek: Seems like guy isn't making a move

3) Lips → Lips: Pretty close relationship

4) Cheek → Lips: What the hell is the guy thinking?!?!?!


5) Lips → nothing: Owned. I've seen it happen (not to me, luckily), and you have to feel sorry for the person. Of course, this usually happens when drunk high schoolers are at parties, so it doesn't really matter either way.
From personal experience, cheek kisses between friends (in younger people) and such aren't so rare nowadays, though they usually occur at particularly sentimental moments: graduation, farewells, etc.

And yeah, if any guy I kiss on the cheek does anything back, I'd be scared.
Actually, if I'm kissing a guy on the cheek, I'd first have to consider my circumstances.
That being said, I have kissed a guy on the cheek.
And yes, I am a heterosexual male.

To be more on-topic, I do have some girl friends who I don't consider particularly attractive, and several with which I can't really see myself getting romantically involved ever.

Though I actually have lived next door to a girl (for nine years, Osana Najimi power!), who's probably dated every guy who has asked her out, which includes most of her current and previous male friends (even one 4 years older than she was. ) and asked me out several months back.
That could be a bit of evidence to the contrary?
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Old 2008-05-05, 03:48   Link #47
2H-Dragon
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I have female friends(guys still rule the majority :O ). I can't see what my relationship is with them if we aren't just "friends." There are a few where I can say they are hot or w/e, but going into a relationship with them is just like incest. Just feels wrong on so many levels.
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Old 2008-05-05, 06:18   Link #48
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Why not? I don't mind having guys as just "friends",but if they got the wrong idea about certain something,i am going to kick them to wake them up
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Old 2008-05-05, 10:58   Link #49
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If the Girl Is real Hot= No
If the Girl Isn't Hot = Yes
If the guy asked the girl out and she said "lets Be Friends"= Yes
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Old 2008-05-05, 12:14   Link #50
cheyannew
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That's absurd; I have more male friends than female friends, I daresay, and they've never tried to go past the friendship mark.

Heck, I feel more comfortable telling my guy friends things because woman are generally more catty and such. There's a very valid reason I don't generally get along w/ females.

I'll also note a lot of my male friends are terribly good looking and droolworthy, but there's only 1 I'd fall over myself to hook up with. I have a lot of good looking female friends too but again; save for two, we've never gone past the friends mark. Even then, one was just a weekend thing, and the other's the woman we're trying to get to move in with us. The rest of my femmefriends are just that; friends. Same w/ the guys.

I never understood why people seem to assume if a guy & girl hang out a lot together they MUST be dating or whatever. Why can't we just enjoy each others' company?
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Old 2008-05-05, 12:16   Link #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Lycan View Post
If the Girl Is real Hot= No
If the Girl Isn't Hot = Yes
If the guy asked the girl out and she said "lets Be Friends"= Yes
You know, that sort of thinking really reveals a lot about a person's priorities.

I don't normally say something like this but for the purpose of making a point...
Most of my female friends are very attractive. Your descriptive "real hot" would be an understatement for some. And yet we're "just friends".

Why?

First of all, I see them as more than just a face and body. They are human beings, with traits that make it clear how inappropriate it would be to pursue a relationship with, and their own lives and needs that make it clear they don't need the distraction or pressure of romantic interest from a friend. It's simple respect.
Secondly, I'm a grown man. That means I have goals and focus that are completely incompatible with being distracted by some potential for frivolous self-gratification.

As a man, I am, without question, attracted to beautiful women. However, as a man, I have priorities that preclude romantic pursuit from being an inevitability. Certainly one ought to be more aware and careful in setting physical and emotional boundaries around women when there is greater potential for attraction (or when it is simply there), but that's not difficult for some one with willpower and respect for others.
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Old 2008-05-05, 12:33   Link #52
cheyannew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Although I voted "No" in this poll let me explain my point of view on this matter.

First of all, I don't think a man and a woman can easily becomes friends. Perhaps my definition of a friend is different than other people, I do believe a man and a woman can be acquaintances though and to me there is a big distinction between that.

A friend is someone who will always be there when you're in trouble, a friend is someone someone who listens, someone who tells the truth about yourself and you appreciate it, someone who arrives unexpectedly, as you are going out and you want with all your heart to take them with you.

An acquaintance is someone you are just on friendly terms with, you may spend time outside of the work place or school here and there, you may talk here and there with some little friendly chit chat. But after you leave the workplace or after you leave your college, those acquaintances disappear from your life.

A woman is usually a friend when they're your lover. I would it find it highly unusual otherwise. And when you become older and get married and happen to actually be friends with someone of the opposite gender, I don't think your wife or husband will appreciate you hanging out with the opposite sex.

Society deems its unusual, therefor it is wrong. Many of the modern countries today, I have not been to lal countries of course so I can't speak for everybody, may be technologically more advanced that its neighbors, but they are from a sociological standpoint too immature.

So I will stick with my answer of no, coming from someone who lives in California, but a truly ideal world it should be yes, we as people are not there yet. As long as we still have government issues like gay marriage, we are definitely not there yet.
No offense intended but this REALLY rubbed me the wrong way..

Firstly, if your significant other doesn't like you hanging out w/ people of the opposite sex, GET A NEW SIGNIFICANT OTHER!!!
Honestly; there's no room for jealousy or paranoia in a relationship. Gods know I would not've stayed w/ my husband for the last 12 years if he had issues w/ my male friends. He knows I'm not going anywhere. And I have no issues w/ him hanging out w/ females; why would I? That's just silly if you're planning on having a good healthy commitment w/ them.

Society SAYS a lot of things are wrong; that doesn't make it so. Ideals and such will not change if we dont' take matters into our own hands. "Well they think it's wrong" means it'll STAY "wrong" since no one wants to stand up and go "hey screw society".
I am as close, if not closer, to my male FRIENDS as I am my female ones. Granted, I may be an odd case, but people are people, regardless of their gender. That's how I approach others, and how I expect to be approached. People here at work learned long ago I am ME, I am not a woman, and don't treat me as such. I expect everyone to be treated the same, whilst I realize that's a pipe dream, I generally attempt to live my life like that. Maybe it's because I live such an alternative lifestyle, who knows.

Again, no offense, but it just hit a bunch of pet peeves You explained your point of view very well.
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Old 2008-05-05, 13:56   Link #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Still though, guys don't truly become friends with girls unless they in a relationship, in my opinion. A guy will tell a guy friend about his dirty secrets, but not "usually" will a guy ever tell a girl about his dirty secrets. I think this creates a boundary that cannot be surpassed since genders are not equal. Genders are treated differently, this is just natural for humans do so. But like Hayashi Takara here, I guess there can be exceptions, but from what I see it's pretty rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marina View Post
After hitting college, the majority of my friends and acquaintances were males and I maintained strict barriers between them. I have noticed however how easily the males in a friendship fall for the girl while the girl remains oblivious of the desires. I have had a few situations where I became aware of the affections of some of my guy friends and had to either let them know my feelings or distance myself if they were too adamant. In the past few years that I've been in a steady relationship, it's become easier for me to read when a guy is interested in more than just friendship, and surprisingly (or perhaps not so surprisingly depending on what camp you sit in) most guys will admit to harboring thoughts inappropriate of straight friendship. Let's just say, if I kissed them, they would undoubtedly and willingly kiss back.
Although I disagree with Reckoner's conclusion of "No", I thought both of you brought up points that illustrate the difference between men and women that cause our frustration: Men and women have different things that make a relationship with their mate unique to them.

(To oversimplify and generalize... And please note that "sexual intimacy" does not mean "sex"...)
For a woman, a relationship with a mate is marked as unique by exclusive sexual intimacy. Ideally, they are most emotionally intimate with their mate, but emotional intimacy is something they have with various sorts of people.
For a man--even a completely faithful monogamous one--sexual intimacy is not what marks the relationship with a mate as unique, but the fact that it is the most emotionally intimate out of all others.

I am not a bitter misogynist like most of the proponents of Ladder Theory, but the idea does have some merit. Women consider sexual intimacy and emotional intimacy two separate scales, while for men the two are linked in haphazard ways.

That doesn't mean emotional intimacy always leads to sexual intimacy for a man, but there is that tendency, and a woman with whom he shares sexual intimacy tends to get bumped up to the top of the "emotional intimacy" scale, because they're intertwined. I am close emotionally to a gorgeous female friend of mine who I've known well for years, but I wouldn't ever entertain thoughts of sex with her--the thought would give me dry heaves. *shudder* Ew. However, when I do find my mate, I fully expect to quickly find far greater emotional intimacy with my mate than I do my friend.

Wise people, like Marina, learn to recognize the signs and have appropriate barriers. I do suggest, though, that you ladies not judge men for being attracted to you as long as they're maintaining appropriate space and respect for you. It does NOT mean they're lechers or philanderers in waiting--well, most men will be, but even the finest man alive is still a man, simply an honorable one. Just don't provide confusion or temptation that might mislead any one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
Well, kissing on the cheek around these parts is perfectly common and doesn't imply more than "Hey, I've met you more than once"
This is quite separate from my other point and a tad off topic, but I just wanted to point it out. As similar as people are, customs vary widely. An Orthodox Jew would never touch or be alone with a woman outside his immediate family, but in many Latin countries kissing on the cheek is common among acquaintances. (I'm really quite fond of all points along the spectrum for various reasons.)

Though I haven't been to Buenos Aires, WanderingKnight, I have appreciated that custom in other parts of South America. There's nothing quite like the air of friendship when entering a room and kisses are dispensed all 'round. The teenage and young adult girls tend to be a bit more reserved around adult male gringos, of course, but the older women are delightfully unabashed.

Everywhere I've been in the region there are such warm, wonderful people.
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Old 2008-05-05, 17:27   Link #54
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Originally Posted by cheyannew View Post
No offense intended but this REALLY rubbed me the wrong way..

Firstly, if your significant other doesn't like you hanging out w/ people of the opposite sex, GET A NEW SIGNIFICANT OTHER!!!
Honestly; there's no room for jealousy or paranoia in a relationship. Gods know I would not've stayed w/ my husband for the last 12 years if he had issues w/ my male friends. He knows I'm not going anywhere. And I have no issues w/ him hanging out w/ females; why would I? That's just silly if you're planning on having a good healthy commitment w/ them.
You and I are in general agreement, but I just wanted to butt in and say that you shouldn't dump a person for their insecurities right off the bat. If they're feeling inscure, talk with them about it. And you know? Even if talking with them doesn't remove the insecurities, respecting their insecurities and working with them is what you should do as a loving partner. If their fears are ridiculous and incredibly restrictive, then you need to consider whether you're willing to make those sacrifices and whether it'll make you feel resentful...

Just as an example, I am my girlfriend's first boyfriend. It's been over two years now, but we initially dealt with some feeling of jealousy on her part. I have a ton of female friends, you see, and it's quite possible that some did have romantic feelings for me. Was it wrong for my girlfriend to be a bit upset? Not at all. Even though she trusts me and knows that I love her, I don't think it was wrong for her to feel a bit uncomfortable at all. I say that because if the situation were reversed, and she were spending a lot of time with certain other males, I might feel a bit neglected or insecure, myself. She has very few male friends that she interacts with regularly, though, so I've never experienced it for myself. It'd be very selfish of me to tell her that she has trust issues simply because I'm not in a similar situation to feel it for myself, in my opinion. So I do my part to ensure that I spend a bit less time with certain people that make her uncomfortable, and let her know if she's being unreasonable. When it comes down to it, whose relationship means more to me - hers, or the average friendship of a person or two? (That can easily be turned into a slipper-slope argument; know your limits beforehand. You should be the one to determine what's reasonable and what isn't. I just dislike the idea of cutting off anyone who you think is holding part of you back.)

I think you're probably in full agreement with me, but I figured I'd throw it in there anyway. I've been incredibly happy and I believe it's purely due to committment and willingness to communicate openly about discomfort and insecurities. Be understanding, be tolerant, and be willing to compromise - those are the crucial parts of a relationship that most people seem to lack, and they're balanced by being able to gauge your own happiness, knowing when and having the strength to get out of a relationship, and knowing what you want (these are also lacking in many people, but to a lesser degree).

The answer to the question is yes, of course. Even if you harbor a sexual or other attraction to a friend, you can still be friends. Maybe this just gets easier to balance as you get older, when sexual desires don't spontaneously override your thoughts.
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Old 2008-05-05, 17:43   Link #55
klowny
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don't really think so since eventually they will be attracted to each other but then again it could be possiable
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Old 2008-05-05, 20:18   Link #56
Reckoner
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I'm still going to stand by my statement that the bond that a woman and a man form does not generally meet the full potential of friendship compared to the bond that friends between the same gender can form (Unless it is romantic). But let me add in something since Kyuusai made me think about this, because I am a man I cannot speak for a woman, so this is coming from a man's POV.

I should change my vote to yes in this poll, but I voted no only to stress my thought on it. The option for no already deals in absolutes, and absolutes do not exist, unless I was to quote Benjamin Franklin here on death and taxes. So I basically voted no under the assumption that more more often not do women and men form true friendships outside of romantic relationships.

@cheyannew

You are definitely right, and I don't agree with society myself.
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Old 2008-05-05, 21:30   Link #57
Demongod86
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You cannot be friends with someone that you are sexually attracted to. The end. If you are friends with a girl that you are attracted to, you do not want to be friends with her.

Guys only have one ladder. At the top are girls they actively want to fuck. At the bottom are girls they wouldn't admit to fucking even if they were drunk.

Girls on the other hand have two ladders. One is a ladder of guys that they would consider to be partners. The other is a friends ladder. If a guy tries to jump ladders, he runs the risk of falling into the abyss.

Read up on Ladder Theory to get a confirmation.
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Old 2008-05-05, 21:37   Link #58
HayashiTakara
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So far, the results are pretty much what I have figured it'll turn up, in a few more days, when the number of voters increase along with posts, I'll show the guy I had this debate with, and show how narrow his views are.
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Old 2008-05-05, 21:51   Link #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
You cannot be friends with someone that you are sexually attracted to. The end. If you are friends with a girl that you are attracted to, you do not want to be friends with her.
That's what i tried to say
But i guess i pharsed it wrong
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Old 2008-05-05, 22:07   Link #60
Kang Seung Jae
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
Guys only have one ladder. At the top are girls they actively want to fuck. At the bottom are girls they wouldn't admit to fucking even if they were drunk.

Girls on the other hand have two ladders. One is a ladder of guys that they would consider to be partners. The other is a friends ladder. If a guy tries to jump ladders, he runs the risk of falling into the abyss.

Read up on Ladder Theory to get a confirmation.
I disagree. Guys also have two ladders, it's just that most of them are too "simple" to make use of the friendship ladder.
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