AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > Forum & Site Feedback

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2008-05-05, 03:23   Link #21
KholdStare
ISML Technical Staff
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Age: 25
Send a message via AIM to KholdStare Send a message via MSN to KholdStare
I think the issue The Small One put forth was addressed somewhere in the past, and that if you see a spoiler, then report it, but don't reply to say that it is a spoiler, because then you would be confirming the spoiler to those who doesn't know yet that it's a spoiler. The problem remains with how harmless the guess is (and if it really is a guess and not just someone trolling for spoilers).

I'm against punishing people putting suggestions inside spoiler tags, as long as they mark is correctly. Let's say that I posted this:

Spoiler for my guesses on what will happen:


It is up to the reader to realize that this is a guess, and we're not here to babysit everyone through the forums. What I'm saying is, the words "people may believe" will have to be coupled with "people should use their common sense."

I also don't have a problem with using spoiler tags to hide big text or pictures, since it's just courtesy, and we shouldn't be punished for courtesy. Why should stuff like
Spoiler for lots of text:
or
Spoiler for big picture:
not be allowed? What if I want to quote a very long post, which others might quote again and again? People usually put them in spoiler tags, because they just want to show that they're quoting this particular post, and if the reader needs further clarification of what was quoted, they can show the spoiler.

All in all, you're trying to change things that just cause inconvenience for everyone, because what good will it do to restrict the use of spoiler tags? If you don't like them, don't use them. Just like how everyone is free to scroll down, everyone is free to put what they want inside a spoiler tag if they mark them accordingly.

EDIT: And if your problem is not knowing if there's really a spoiler or if there's big text/guesses hiding under the spoiler, then go ahead and punish people who don't mark their spoiler tags or do so incorrectly, but don't screw up spoiler tags for the rest of us.
KholdStare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-05, 06:23   Link #22
Solace
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
The rules are well meaning but they fight a losing battle. Only a naive person will come to a discussion about the topic they are interested in and not expect to be spoiled in some way. The very nature of a worldwide forum that discusses fansubbed material creates a place where there is going to be someone who knows something will happen before others do. It's that persons responsibility to keep the impulses to discuss such things in check, but deciding when and where the place is to speak or hold back is a slippery slope.

I actually find most Animesuki series discussion to be largely civil. There are exceptions from time to time from people who can't be bothered to think before they post, but spoilers abound specifically because people are excited about discussing their favorite shows and everything about them.

For the most part people keep things tagged, and the only real fault is that unmarked or poorly marked spoilers can be misleading. On the other hand, they are spoilers....so if you don't wish to risk being spoiled, don't click them. It's why the tag exists in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei
Personally that's exactly the stuff I don't want to see in an anime thread. I don't care whether it diverged from the source or how that might affect future developments in the anime. If you want to talk about the source, do it in a manga thread.
Sorry, I don't agree. That's inconsiderate to think that anime threads should hold some special protected status that manga or game threads should be exempt from. What about stories where the anime is different from the manga? Is it fair that discussion about comparisons could potentially spoiler one group of people but not another?

In subforums it might be easier to split discussions into threads but for many of our series, we only get one thread for anime, then we have to go to a completely different place for other sources. Crossing wires can and does happen, regardless of how some feel.

To use a somewhat crude analogy, this discussion reminds me of safe sex vs abstinence. It doesn't matter how good the protection is, there's still a risk. The only way to ensure a risk free experience is to never participate in the first place. Avoid the temptation and you'll never have a problem, but if you decide to play around, it's inevitable that you'll get burned.
__________________
Solace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-05, 11:26   Link #23
Ledgem
Love Yourself
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
It doesn't matter how good the protection is, there's still a risk. The only way to ensure a risk free experience is to never participate in the first place.
Or to only have a single partner (Just kidding - I agree with all of your post, aside from that part of the analogy)

I was curious as to why this is necessary, as I thought that we always had some sort of rule about this. I found a fair bit of it to be confusing and a bit frightening, as well. I know that we're not politicians here, but saying "anything outside the scope of a topic will be considered a spoiler" is something that would be ripe for abuse. We all know what spoilers are and we all know what that's supposed to mean but I started wondering if any posts that start to go off-topic could lead to punishment, with a moderator pointing to the spoiler policy as justification.

I also became confused as to when spoiler tags are appropriate. For example, the "Gundam Seed Trilogy?" thread is a thread based around wondering if there will be a third part to the Gundam SEED franchise. A good amount of the thread was dedicated to rehashing the events of Gundam SEED and Gundam SEED Destiny, analyzing, speculating - in short, doing everything that fans like to do. Everyone actively participating had clearly seen both SEED and SEED Destiny, and the entire conversation was based on what would be spoilers to someone who hadn't seen both series fully through. Would it be expected that you use spoiler tags in those cases? If the answer is yes, then do you realize that any discussion of events after (or perhaps even including) the first episode of a series would need to be put into spoiler tags? I don't really have an opinion as to whether that would be a good thing or a bad thing, personally.
__________________
Ledgem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-05, 11:36   Link #24
KholdStare
ISML Technical Staff
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Age: 25
Send a message via AIM to KholdStare Send a message via MSN to KholdStare
Here's the problem. On one side, if you don't use spoiler tags correctly, then mods hunt you down and give you infractions. On the other side, we have people like The Small One who condemns using spoiler tags excessively. I don't want to spend 15 minutes posting thinking about whether or not to use a spoiler tag or how I should mark them. Regarding to what Ledgem said, it's logical for the entire thread to be spoiler-tag free, but what if people want to be courteous? There's nothing wrong with too many spoiler tags in that case. It's just a simple extra click to reveal a spoiler, not the screen blacking out and Vista asking you for the administrator's password to view a spoiler.
KholdStare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-05, 11:45   Link #25
relentlessflame
 
*Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
To use a somewhat crude analogy, this discussion reminds me of safe sex vs abstinence. It doesn't matter how good the protection is, there's still a risk. The only way to ensure a risk free experience is to never participate in the first place. Avoid the temptation and you'll never have a problem, but if you decide to play around, it's inevitable that you'll get burned.
Well, this is for sure, but the argument is the same: people are going to do it anyway, so better to try to reduce the risk, even if you can't eliminate it. The purpose of the new policy is to try to increase the level of understanding of what is and isn't considered acceptable. The unstated but obvious by-product of having such a policy is that those who can't abide by these rules will receive warnings, infractions, and possibly bans. Nobody wants to be spoiled, but this is the Internet, and there is a certain sense of inevitability about it. All we can do is try to reduce the risk and, when it does happen, try to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Sorry, I don't agree. That's inconsiderate to think that anime threads should hold some special protected status that manga or game threads should be exempt from. What about stories where the anime is different from the manga? Is it fair that discussion about comparisons could potentially spoiler one group of people but not another?
If I'm understanding your point correctly, I believe this is addressed in the policy as written.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
I also became confused as to when spoiler tags are appropriate. For example, the "Gundam Seed Trilogy?" thread is a thread based around wondering if there will be a third part to the Gundam SEED franchise. A good amount of the thread was dedicated to rehashing the events of Gundam SEED and Gundam SEED Destiny, analyzing, speculating - in short, doing everything that fans like to do. Everyone actively participating had clearly seen both SEED and SEED Destiny, and the entire conversation was based on what would be spoilers to someone who hadn't seen both series fully through. Would it be expected that you use spoiler tags in those cases? If the answer is yes, then do you realize that any discussion of events after (or perhaps even including) the first episode of a series would need to be put into spoiler tags? I don't really have an opinion as to whether that would be a good thing or a bad thing, personally.
The key here is future events. Because both Gundam Seed and Gundam Seed Destiny are on topic in the thread, and both shows have been fully released on DVD, those participating in the thread at this point can be expected to have seen the whole show. Perhaps we can put something in the first post to that effect. No spoiler tags would be required in that thread, except if you were comparing to some off-topic example (like some other Gundam series, for example).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoiler Policy
A spoiler is anything that discloses an event, character, plot or other information before it is revealed within the specific work being discussed. (emphasis mine ~rf)
This is the same principle that applies basically everywhere else on the forum. When the English version of an episode is released, discussing it is no longer considered a spoiler in threads where that show is on-topic. Yes, it's certainly quite possible that some innocent bystandard who's never seen the show in question will waltz into the thread, read the latest posts, and be spoiled, but I think it should only take one or two experiences like that to realize that "hey, maybe I shouldn't do that..." No matter how good a spoiler policy we create, we can't save people from themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
Here's the problem. On one side, if you don't use spoiler tags correctly, then mods hunt you down and give you infractions. On the other side, we have people like The Small One who condemns using spoiler tags excessively. I don't want to spend 15 minutes posting thinking about whether or not to use a spoiler tag or how I should mark them. Regarding to what Ledgem said, it's logical for the entire thread to be spoiler-tag free, but what if people want to be courteous? There's nothing wrong with too many spoiler tags in that case. It's just a simple extra click to reveal a spoiler, not the screen blacking out and Vista asking you for the administrator's password to view a spoiler.
I agree with your argument in general. For my own personal posts, I always take the cautious approach and, if in doubt, I'd rather use clearly-marked spoiler tags than not use them. I don't think I would ever, as a mod, issue an infraction for using a clearly-marked spoiler tag that was unneeded. If anything, I would just edit out the spoiler tags, and maybe issue a warning if it became a habit that was never fixed (i.e. people shouldn't just start enclosing every single post inside spoiler tags to play it safe!). The big problems (IMO) are poorly marked tags, not using tags in the first place, and revealing future events from the source material that should be kept secret.
__________________
[...]
relentlessflame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-05, 12:29   Link #26
4Tran
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace
The rules are well meaning but they fight a losing battle. Only a naive person will come to a discussion about the topic they are interested in and not expect to be spoiled in some way. The very nature of a worldwide forum that discusses fansubbed material creates a place where there is going to be someone who knows something will happen before others do. It's that persons responsibility to keep the impulses to discuss such things in check, but deciding when and where the place is to speak or hold back is a slippery slope.
You may be correct, but the spoiler policy's goal isn't to eradicate all inadvertent spoilers - it's to let people know what the proper places to discuss certain material is, and to apply that uniformly to all of AnimeSuki. It's really more to clarify existing policies than it is to create new ones altogether, and I hope that there's less of a slippery-slope problem because of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
]I was curious as to why this is necessary, as I thought that we always had some sort of rule about this. I found a fair bit of it to be confusing and a bit frightening, as well. I know that we're not politicians here, but saying "anything outside the scope of a topic will be considered a spoiler" is something that would be ripe for abuse. We all know what spoilers are and we all know what that's supposed to mean but I started wondering if any posts that start to go off-topic could lead to punishment, with a moderator pointing to the spoiler policy as justification.
The reason for setting up a universal FAQ for spoilers like this is mostly to set up a more uniform rule rather than have them vary based on which subforum/thread it happens to be in. As you pointed out, most of this has already been enforced; we're just hoping that putting in one place like this will lessen the confusion of what is and isn't allowed.

The goal of the spoiler policy is what it always has been: to keep readers from getting stories ruined for them by inconsiderate posters. Overly off-topic thread drift will be treated as it always has been, and the new policy will only apply when such drift meanders into spoiling stories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
I also became confused as to when spoiler tags are appropriate. For example, the "Gundam Seed Trilogy?" thread is a thread based around wondering if there will be a third part to the Gundam SEED franchise. A good amount of the thread was dedicated to rehashing the events of Gundam SEED and Gundam SEED Destiny, analyzing, speculating - in short, doing everything that fans like to do. Everyone actively participating had clearly seen both SEED and SEED Destiny, and the entire conversation was based on what would be spoilers to someone who hadn't seen both series fully through. Would it be expected that you use spoiler tags in those cases? If the answer is yes, then do you realize that any discussion of events after (or perhaps even including) the first episode of a series would need to be put into spoiler tags? I don't really have an opinion as to whether that would be a good thing or a bad thing, personally.
To expand on relentlessflame's reply, this issue is covered by the scope of the topic:
Quote:
Anything outside the scope of a topic is considered a spoiler. Check the thread's title and forum to determine what is allowed. For example, in an anime thread (e.g. threads in the Fansubbed forum), information from the manga, novels, or games would be considered a spoiler.
In the example you provided, it's sort of implicit that the material covered in the thread would pertain to the entirety of the contents of Gundam Seed and Gundam Seed Destiny. Therefore, spoiler tags aren't necessary when talking about these two shows. However, it isn't so implicit that the discussion will be about the Seed sidestories, so spoiler tags would be expected for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
Here's the problem. On one side, if you don't use spoiler tags correctly, then mods hunt you down and give you infractions. On the other side, we have people like The Small One who condemns using spoiler tags excessively. I don't want to spend 15 minutes posting thinking about whether or not to use a spoiler tag or how I should mark them. Regarding to what Ledgem said, it's logical for the entire thread to be spoiler-tag free, but what if people want to be courteous? There's nothing wrong with too many spoiler tags in that case. It's just a simple extra click to reveal a spoiler, not the screen blacking out and Vista asking you for the administrator's password to view a spoiler.
I can't recall a single time that a warning or infraction has been given for over-using spoiler tags. The only times that it's even an issue has always been for other reasons: inappropriate content, over-large images and the like. The sole exception to this is that spoiler tags aren't allowed in a signature. (Well, there is a problem with inadequately labeled spoiler tags, but that's sort of a different issue)
__________________
The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won...
4Tran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-05, 12:38   Link #27
KholdStare
ISML Technical Staff
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Age: 25
Send a message via AIM to KholdStare Send a message via MSN to KholdStare
Well that's something new I learned. I've seen spoiler tags in several signatures (which I may or may not conveniently recall) so I thought it was okay.
KholdStare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-05, 16:53   Link #28
Ledgem
Love Yourself
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
...because that's exactly what's going to happen!
If I may get a punishment for posting an unmarked spoiler, but posting something, that isn't a spoiler inside a spoiler tag, doesn't get any negative reactions, then the logical conclusion would be to simply use the Spoiler-tags always, because then you would never get banned.
Have you really been banned before, TSO? I think maybe we super-old users get uppity about this because it's almost insulting to receive an infraction when you've been here for so long and are just doing what you've always done, and never had a problem before. The only two infractions I have were handed to me within the last two years, for example (and the first one was totally unjustified - any tech user can back me on that, and I still get a bit miffed every time I see it in my account). Hearing that even upstanding members like Vexx get a few infractions doesn't make it feel quite as bad, but it's never pleasant.

The rules aren't as ambiguous to me now, but I'd request that the moderators be a bit merciful about these things. In the example I pointed out (which 4Tran responded to), I disagree on two points: First, technically speaking nearly all of the discussion in that thread is off-topic and should be spoiler'd. The thread topic suggests discussion about news of a third installment, not series analysis of the previous two series. You and I are both in agreement in thinking that that everyone in that thread is advancing to it after having seen the previous two series, but is that a fair assumption to make? Would a moderator unfamiliar with the series or Gundam universe be able to make that same judgement? That leads to the second point: why would it be OK to discuss the previous two series, but not their side stories? (I presume this refers to Astray and the Stargazer OVA, but I haven't viewed those for myself.) It just feels like there's too much ambiguity there. It doesn't help that a lot of people make horribly vague topics.

The only thing that seems fairly obvious is that, using that thread as an example again, discussion of any non-Gundam SEED series, including other Gundam series, should be put into spoilers. But even then, I'm saying that as someone who hasn't been following Gundam since before SEED - the die-hard Gundam fans probably view each series as a chronological addition to the franchise. I'm guessing that other anime discussion threads would also have situations similar to these.
__________________
Ledgem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-05, 17:54   Link #29
Daniel E.
AniMexican!
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Monterrey N.L. Mexico
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
You may be correct, but the spoiler policy's goal isn't to eradicate all inadvertent spoilers - it's to let people know what the proper places to discuss certain material is, and to apply that uniformly to all of AnimeSuki.
Amen to this.

I dont think it's naive to expect a bit of common sense from others. If you are posting on the episode 7 thread of an anime that is bound to run for 26, you have no need whatsoever to discuss/post about events that could potentially describe the ending of the show in question.
__________________
Daniel E. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-05, 18:01   Link #30
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 56
Hmmm, didn't notice the new policy til just now when someone was asking about spoilers within an unsubbed episode (Soul Eater) (which is also MFI but thats a different topic).

"except in threads discussing that specific episode." helps clear up that issue about "has a sub been released yet".

This is a nice clarification except that "the usual idiots" will not read it just as they don't tend to read the regular rule section until slapped repeatedly
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-05, 18:13   Link #31
relentlessflame
 
*Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
...because that's exactly what's going to happen!
If I may get a punishment for posting an unmarked spoiler, but posting something, that isn't a spoiler inside a spoiler tag, doesn't get any negative reactions, then the logical conclusion would be to simply use the Spoiler-tags always, because then you would never get banned.
...If you see someone doing this on a continual basis, please report it. It is true that the over-use of spoiler tags is part of the problem too, and one that we hope this policy will help resolve in time. By making it more obvious what is a spoiler, it becomes more obvious what is not. It'll take time to get everyone re-calibrated, though, so please be patient. Do point out any flagrant abuse, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
You and I are both in agreement in thinking that that everyone in that thread is advancing to it after having seen the previous two series, but is that a fair assumption to make? Would a moderator unfamiliar with the series or Gundam universe be able to make that same judgement? That leads to the second point: why would it be OK to discuss the previous two series, but not their side stories? (I presume this refers to Astray and the Stargazer OVA, but I haven't viewed those for myself.) It just feels like there's too much ambiguity there. It doesn't help that a lot of people make horribly vague topics.
If there's ambiguity, let's come up with an agreement and post it in the first post of the thread so that there's no misunderstanding. I'm all for straightening out ambiguity and getting things in writing so that everyone knows exactly what to expect. While there will always be a certain degree of judgement involved, my personal philosophy is: no surprises. That goes both for users and moderators alike -- if the rules are clear, people less familiar with the series are less likely to make a mistake, and if they do make a mistake, it's more likely to be rectified. These whole idea of reducing ambiguity is the whole reason why I (and many of the other mods) have been working on developing this policy. In the end, it should make all of our lives easier, but let's continue to work on eliminating the ambiguities that remain.

I can say that, if it's possible, mods generally try to avoid handing out spoiler-related infractions for series they're not familiar with. I've seen many a reported post from other moderators saying "I think this may be a spoiler, but could someone who's familiar with the series check?" So, generally speaking, this is already something we do try to be careful about.

And I would also say, sometimes people put too much weight on infractions. They sound really ominous (and the structure of the form-letter doesn't help!), but they're like parking tickets, or maybe speeding tickets if you prefer. They're not generally something to lose sleep over.
__________________
[...]
relentlessflame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-05, 18:31   Link #32
KholdStare
ISML Technical Staff
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Age: 25
Send a message via AIM to KholdStare Send a message via MSN to KholdStare
I'm generally cautious, so if I feel like I might get an infraction, I put it in a spoiler tag, so don't tell me I might get into trouble for using spoiler tags. However, I don't think anyone here even came anywhere close to putting all of their posts into spoiler tags, so we shouldn't even worry about that. Let's take the Higurashi threads, in which 75% of the posts there are in spoiler tags. Now logically, why would you? However, it's one of those series where if someone can interpret something that could be slightly related to something similar to a spoiler, it could ruin the series for another, so it's only a courtesy for someone to post his or her analysis inside of a spoiler tag. Simply put, I don't want to ever be worrying about being punished for using too many spoiler tags, period, regardless of the situation. This is a forum, not a Nazi concentration camp.

Last edited by KholdStare; 2008-05-05 at 19:13. Reason: grammar
KholdStare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-05, 18:37   Link #33
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 56
I don't think "too many" is as much of an issue as "so poorly labeled they should be slapped on general principles".

I can't say I wouldn't *like* a HIDE tag for some of my more wordy posts...
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-05, 19:17   Link #34
SeijiSensei
AS Oji-kun
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mucking about
Age: 64
I tagged two items today that I probably would not have tagged before:

Spoiler for Kurenai/Monster comparison with further spoiling commentary:

Here's an example of more "casual" spoilage from a posting in the Suggestions thread:

Spoiler about romance in Saiunkoku Monogatarai

I've written about SaiMono many times and probably expressed a similar observation outside tags from time to time. While I think I'm usually careful about spoilage, the announced policy has made me aware of casual spoilage examples like this one.

After consideration, I think both these items should be tagged. It actually made it easier to write both comments, especially the first.
__________________
SeijiSensei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-05, 19:27   Link #35
relentlessflame
 
*Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I don't think "too many" is as much of an issue as "so poorly labeled they should be slapped on general principles".
Yeah, sadly, you got it...

KholdStare, I wouldn't worry about it. As far as I'm aware, not a single mod or admin has suggested legislating spoiler use by punishing the use of tags. The purpose of the spoiler policy is simply to prevent people from being spoiled, and the way the policy proposes to accomplish it is by: (1) encouraging the use of spoiler tags, (2) getting people to label their spoiler correctly, and (3) getting people to not post series-ruining source-material spoilers in the first place. We hope that reducing the over-use of spoiler tags may naturally follow once people get a better understand what is and isn't considered a spoiler, but no one's going to implement it in that way. No one's going to issue an infraction that says "According to Spoiler Policy ASF 51842:2008 revision B clause 2.3.46.2 (a), that technically wasn't a spoiler. You may have thought it was covered under clause 4.2.1.51 (q), but you were wrong. Enjoy your ban!" Well, actually, if I ever saw an infraction exactly like that one, I'd probably laugh... but no, anyway, don't worry.
__________________
[...]
relentlessflame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-05, 19:49   Link #36
4Tran
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
The rules aren't as ambiguous to me now, but I'd request that the moderators be a bit merciful about these things.
I think that if you go over your infractions, you'll find that they're probably warnings rather than full-blown infractions. Warnings are exactly as they sound - to let you know when you've stepped over the bounds without any actual punishment attached to them. They serve as a way to let us be merciful and to curb errant behavior at the same time. If you have any issue with either warnings or infractions, you should check out the Infraction FAQ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
In the example I pointed out (which 4Tran responded to), I disagree on two points: First, technically speaking nearly all of the discussion in that thread is off-topic and should be spoiler'd. The thread topic suggests discussion about news of a third installment, not series analysis of the previous two series. You and I are both in agreement in thinking that that everyone in that thread is advancing to it after having seen the previous two series, but is that a fair assumption to make? Would a moderator unfamiliar with the series or Gundam universe be able to make that same judgement?
What you pointed out is precisely why we generally divide moderation tasks so that the person making the judgement is familiar with the particular work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
That leads to the second point: why would it be OK to discuss the previous two series, but not their side stories? (I presume this refers to Astray and the Stargazer OVA, but I haven't viewed those for myself.) It just feels like there's too much ambiguity there. It doesn't help that a lot of people make horribly vague topics.
On the subject of vague topics, I'm in hearty agreement.

I think that a good rule-of-thumb for judging what should and shouldn't be spoiler-tagged is best determined by who is supposed to participate in the thread in question. If it's an anime thread, then we can make the assumption that all the posters are caught up to the latest fansubbed episode. If it's a speculation thread, then the assumption is that all the posters have already watched/read enough of the work in question to make some meaningful contribution.

In the case of the Gundam Trilogy thread, while its original purpose may have been a little different, it effectively fulfills the role of a speculation thread on what a third show may entail. As such, it's pretty much automatic that any discussion therein will entail talking about the endings of the other two shows. Any one who hasn't already watched those two shows should know what they're getting themselves into. However, knowledge of the side-stories shouldn't be necessary to participate in this discussion, so any mention of them should be spoiler-tagged.
__________________
The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won...
4Tran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-05, 20:27   Link #37
Seditary
Ooooo what?!
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Someplace cold :(
Age: 31
It just basically seems to me to be giving written weight to normal common sense, unfortunately as most are aware, there are many people without any common sense whatsoever, and common sense varies from person to person.

It will eventually filter down to the community over time what they specifically consider acceptable or not as situations occur and are dealt with.

I hope people don't see the new policy and decide to 'test' it and the mods out by seeing what they can get away with without getting in trouble, just go about your normal forum life while keeping the revised guidelines in mind.
__________________
Seditary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-05, 20:50   Link #38
Kristen
Senior Member
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Virginia Tech
I have a question that's been bothering me for a while about spoilers from before an episode is fansubbed. In the case of show that are liscenced, at what time is it appropriate to talk without a spoiler? Is it any time after it airs, after the fansubs appear (Even though ASuki basically treats them like they don't exist for ethical reasons), after the show is released dubbed, or after a certain amount of time?
__________________
Kristen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-05, 21:06   Link #39
relentlessflame
 
*Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrissieXD View Post
I have a question that's been bothering me for a while about spoilers from before an episode is fansubbed. In the case of show that are liscenced, at what time is it appropriate to talk without a spoiler? Is it any time after it airs, after the fansubs appear (Even though ASuki basically treats them like they don't exist for ethical reasons), after the show is released dubbed, or after a certain amount of time?
I suppose the best answer is probably "use your best judgement"? Putting raw discussion behind spoiler tags is a recommendation in the current policy, and it's a courtesy for those who don't watch raws. Those actively participating in the discussion will presumably be watching the show somehow, so it would make sense to generally follow that same sort of timing. If you're discussing the raw as it comes out, it's considerate to put it behind spoiler tags.

Hope that basically answers the question...
__________________
[...]
relentlessflame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-06, 02:38   Link #40
WanderingKnight
Gregory House
*IT Support
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Age: 25
Send a message via MSN to WanderingKnight
Ehm, I think the whole discussion can be brought down to one thing: Common sense. Something that apparently many people lack. My eyes are still sore with all the Claymore spoilage around (they went almost blind by the Naruto-like downwards spiral the quality of the discussion took afterwards, but that's another issue altogether, and one that seems to plague every popular shounen show (WHY COULD THAT BE??)).

Look, it's not the manga thread, get your manga discussion to the proper place, or at least have the decency to wrap it in a damn spoiler. I'm one of those people who don't like reading manga on a PC monitor and thus it's kinda hard for me to catch up on all the scalations around, and it bugs me to no end when I see pages and pages of manga discussion, or even entire pages wrapped in spoiler tags discussing the manga! Just go to the proper thread already.

I mean, it's not too hard. Then again, I'm one of those people who would prefer to have less written rules and more common sense, sort of like a silent agreement between intelligent people, but what the heck.

Quote:
Alternatively we could say, that opinions and guesses should also be put inside spoiler-tags. But then you probably won't find a post without it anymore.
The day I get an infraction for posting something on the lines of "I wonder if X character will end up with Y character...?" without a spoiler tag will be the day I leave AS
__________________


Place them in a box until a quieter time | Lights down, you up and die.
WanderingKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
faq, spoiler policy, spoilers

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:34.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.