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Old 2008-05-05, 13:39   Link #24141
Tk3997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
You know Tk, I just realized... if you really are right and Nanohaverse magic does not succumb to animation techniques, and the speed we see is indeed what we get, then that renders all your arguments about Mid's range defeating Belka's melee contradictionary.

After all, if the attacks don't even reach baseball speeds, then that makes them pretty much useless beyond anything but throwing distance.

Not to mention physics defying...
Well it would if huge parts of Mid’s arsenal didn’t involve homing spells that are considerably faster then many of the beams we see. This is just another reason Beamspam is a bad tactic it’s slow and unwieldy and actually getting the target to sit still and let you blast him is obviously an issue. I also fail to see how an attack moving slow defys the laws of pshyics...

Quote:
Anyway, my standpoint is hardly what you described. My standpoint is that there is a severe difference in speed where Nanoha combat is concerned. What seems slow in one scene, suddenly seems fast in the next. Actions that look slow up close are blindingly fast from a distance. These fluctuations in speed, both in magical and physical combat, are presented on screen. Both count as 'evidence' as you put it. Yet which one is the true speed? I prefer to choose the fast speed for several reasons, one among them being that it increases the awesomness factor of Nanoha combat severalfold. The other being that the slow moving combat can be explained, while the fast moving can't (or at least, I've never heard of people doing a reverse-slow effect. Maybe for comedic purposes, but not for action). And lastly, there is even a reason for those interested in applying the Laws of Physics: It also explains just why seemingly slow moving attacks can do damage they should not be able to at their speeds.
You should have said this to start with then instead of basiclly just saying “well I think the beam was moving faster just because” or implying it was an effects. And I’d actually agree with you speed DOSE seem to fluctuate within certain limits while it’s sometimes a bit faster or slower there is overall a fairly consistent range that we see, and frankly that range isn’t really blindingly fast even at the high end. We also need to keep in mind that in some cases other factors maybe at work distance effects perceptions of speed that’s just unavoidable so we can’t be so quick as to claim a speed differential if there are perspective issues involved and it needs to be examined case by case; which would admittedly be a huge pain in the ass.

We also needs to consider what’s “fast” the fact is that given that we can see spells and track them in flight even over short distances there is a clear limit on how fast they can be moving unless we just totally ignore all visuals. As while the visuals may fluctuate a bit the spells are basiclly always visible and can be tracked in flight and so simply can’t be going THAT fast.

The last bit is just nonsensical after all if the visual effects for the speed of the spell are apparently wrong why would the effects of its damage level be “right”? Never mind it’s totally unneeded anyway speed clearly has nothing to do with the striking power of a magic spell (as you’d expect) so this is no argument for high speeds being required at all IMO.

Anyway I now feel I need to make clear I never meant to aruge that melee was impossible to use at all. I think that somewhere in the debate that fact got lost. Due to a number of factors in Nanoha melee is fairly viable (rather slow speed of spells being one of those factors), BUT despite that I still feel that even though Melee can work to some extent a ranged doctrine is a better approach for an army to take. As while it’s not overwhelmingly unbeatably superior it’s still superior in quite a number of situations and used competently as part of a combined arms team gains more advantage then melee dose.

Again though melee isn't impossible I some(often)times think people gloss over the problems and challenges with it far too easily. They often seem to simply assume they WILL get into range and give little thought as to how that will be done and often frankly make ranged users act stupid to accomplish it in a story setting. I just see way to many instances where ranged users don’t evade or maneuver or anything and basiclly just let the melee guy rush them down or he shrugs off ranged attacks, but of coruse the ranged guys can’t shrug off HIS attacks and so on. It just seems like every fight has to end in a melee battle for some reason and that annoys me to some extent.

Basiclly I’ve often felt the thread has a serious bent/hard on for melee and will gloss over its disadvantages while harping on any minor weakness to a ranged style. I mean just look at how everyone is damn near falling over themselves yelling about how bad Hayate need’s "melee skillz" and such. I still maintain she needs no such thing and that better barriers and improved speed would make her plenty viable and be much quicker to teach her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
snip
Acutally it appears that the entire thing was a pointless tangent because Keroko didn’t explain quite what he meant well enough at first. (and it was late and maybe I didn’t read it as well as I should have) Which dosen't mean any of this is true just that it's not realvent at the moment.
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Old 2008-05-05, 16:09   Link #24142
Keroko
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I have always held these standpoints, Tk. During the many discussions I have repeatedly told them. Perhaps not all at once, but I certainly have told every one of them.

Anyway, you say speed tends to fluctuate within certain limits. However, the differences in melee combat are decicively larger then the ones in ranged combat, there is no 'bit' faster, the gap is huge. We probably should adress this too, because the impact of this also effects some of the ranged scenes we see.

When you say 'speed has nothing to do with striking damage of a magic spell' you confuse me though... are you saying physics don't matter anymore? Strange, concidering you've been a supporter of them all along. I mean, I basically put in that point under the assumption that if animation equals the truth, then it should matter because it defies physics.

Concidering the aproach of melee versus range, yes, true in many parts. However, you have nobody to blame but yourself for the 'melee can shrug of ranged, but ranged can't shrug of melee' part because it was you who said that Barrier Jackets were hardly effective against melee weapons, while more effective against magic attacks.

As for Hayate, there are many reasons behind this. First is her weapon, which is blatantly called 'sword cross.' That kinda creates expectations of melee battle. Secondly, its because Hayate is the sole combatant with this weakness. Even her fellow ranged expert Nanoha can match up with Vita in melee, why must Hayate be the only one not able to? Finally, and most important to me, most combat in Nanoha that actually matters for plot or character development takes place in melee. Hayate is unable to fight in melee, which places Hayate where?

You guessed it. The shaft seat. With Hayate not able to fight in melee, her chances of being actively involved in the important battles becomes rather slim, concidering the style of combat/story the series displays.

Finally, there was one bit in your post that severely irked me:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Well it would if huge parts of Midís arsenal didnít involve homing spells that are considerably faster then many of the beams we see. This is just another reason Beamspam is a bad tactic itís slow and unwieldy and actually getting the target to sit still and let you blast him is obviously an issue. I also fail to see how an attack moving slow defys the laws of pshyics...
Once again, I like to know where you get this 'large arsenal' and 'conciderably faster'

Last I checked, the only spell that was canonically labeled a homing spell was Barret F. Which was seen once, and fired by only one character. Also, going by the visuals the spell was hardly any faster then any of the other spells we have seen in the series. To turn this into 'huge parts of Mid's arsenal' and 'conciderably faster' is plainly ridiculous and completely contradicting everything you said after that.
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Old 2008-05-05, 16:15   Link #24143
Comartemis
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Quote:
Last I checked, the only spell that was canonically labeled a homing spell was Barret F.
Swallow Flier also seems to display homing traits; I've certainly never seen any visual cues or evidence that Vita guides those things remotely, so I'd have to say they have homing characteristics as well. That still isn't a 'large arsenal', but at least now there's at least one such attack for both Mid-users and Belka-users.
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Old 2008-05-05, 16:26   Link #24144
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
Swallow Flier also seems to display homing traits; I've certainly never seen any visual cues or evidence that Vita guides those things remotely, so I'd have to say they have homing characteristics as well. That still isn't a 'large arsenal', but at least now there's at least one such attack for both Mid-users and Belka-users.
A's 05, 9:40 mark, Vita is definetely the one controling these.

Nevermind, I made a mistake >_< Schwalbe Fliegen does have homing abillities.

Anyway, it just ticked me of that Tk turned the existence of one homing spell immediately into 'Mid has an entire arsenal of homing spells that are waaaay faster then other spells' I'm not denying that it opens roads, but that's exactly what he was talking me down for for doing, disagree and pointing out why my arguments are flawed, I'm perfectly cool with, but then to turn around and do the exact same thing ticks me off.
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Last edited by Keroko; 2008-05-06 at 02:18.
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Old 2008-05-05, 22:55   Link #24145
Satty
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Uhh....hey again...looks like you guys broke the 12k barrier...

Anyway...fake OP time! I got bored and wanted to do something else other than a chapter....

Here it is:
Spoiler for SearcherS OP:


Spoiler for Reference:


There you go...
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Old 2008-05-06, 00:03   Link #24146
arkhangelsk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
A sniper is a gun with long range, thus someone with a sniper should automatically win because he can shoot his targets from long range, yes? But what if his oponent uses cover, or they're fighting inside a building. Despite the fact that the sniper has a longer range, the characteristics of the battle change to make it less so.

Add to that that the most used way to train melee fighting (and thus Belkan) is one-on-one training, and you will see tat Belkan magic does hold an advantage. More training in one on one equals more experience in one on one.
It doesn't change the fact that it is a far cry from "never lose", which was Tk's point from the manga.

Quote:
Maybe because that scene makes no sense at all from a realistic point of view? If a puff of wind from a bug flying by can tear a jacket, then flying, which produces much more wind pressure, or hell even moving around should tear the damn thing apart.
Probably a matter of it being a nice even pressure versus a differential pressure? Anyway, if things that don't "make sense" to you get deleted, can I delete such scenes as the slamming scenes on the grounds that it makes no sense at all from a realistic point of view? Or the high speed scenes?

Quote:
I am dealing with it. Heck, I admited I was wrong that there were no guidance rounds the moment Barret F was mentioned. Still doesn't change the fact that all visuals and vocals point to Nanoha being the one controlling in that episode.
Well, I'll agree with you on this one.

Quote:
Now this is interesting. We have physics defying rounds here. They are hit with a weapon with enough force to match a baseball ball being hit
Granting this is true, remember A = F / M. If M increases, A decreases while F stays the same.

Quote:
(and and if we nitpick the physics, then concidering they can punch through metal they should be going a damn lot faster too).
Given an adequately thin and brittle piece of metal, even a low velocity ball can do the job. It is obvious that this is a sign of the Gadget Drone's cheap construction - don't laugh; look at Rein for a sense of perspective.

Quote:
Which also shows them taking turns that are supposed to be impossible because of their momentum. Anyway, even with speeds like this (which, concidering their manouvering, aren't Flash Moves) they can still hit and block eachother, despite defying what a human body should physically be able to do.
Two SoD-compatible alternatives:
1) Flash Move can just last a little longer than we think it can.
2) There was indeed Time Manipulation. I don't have to remind you which one gets kept and which one gets shifted.

Quote:
*snrk* Oh, I'm sorry, but you do realize that those awesome bullet time scenes in the Matrix were inspired by anime, right? Just saying bullet time doesn't exist in anime is laughable, concidering anime pretty much invented it. The number of anime that don't use bullet time is so much smaller then the anime that do, its not even worth counting.
I don't know about Tk, but I accept Bullet Time. I don't accept Bullet Time with voices.

Quote:
Nanoha is filled with scenes that, should they have been live action, would have been bullet time. Hell, the very first episode of the very first season already has such a scene at 18:43,
It did. They were very careful to shut the characters up for it (in fact, it was just about silent, thus freeing the arc for very high time manipulation ratios), too. (Similarly, in the scenes I suspect are sped up, they don't talk too).

Quote:
episode 2 at 3:03,
As the JS dive bombed? Same here. As Nanoha eeped, she covered herself at a speed which is within arc of normal human motion, thus showing that the voice-timelock is active and we've snapped to normal speed. It also shows that 7Arcs doesn't think you need a scene transition before you change speeds.

Quote:
episode 3 at 6:54
Where the kid caught the ball? Looks like normal time to me.

Quote:
and 16:05 episode 4...
That wasn't even an action scene. Fate is muttering all over the place. It is clearly normal time. Do you mean 17:05? Still in human range...

Quote:
Forget it, I already listed several examples in the least combatative episodes of Nanoha. As soon as combat starts, the scenes pile up even more.
Well, now tell me. In how many of them were they stupid enough to mix time manipulation with voices.

Actually, I won't put it past them. But you shouldn't be so pleased about it, for reasons I'll explain below.

Quote:
The problem is that I'm not just saying this 'because I don't like it.' Although it is true that I don't like it, I'm not without support, as the DVD booklet blatantly states that Divine Buster Extension has 'amazing speed' even though we see no such speed on screen.
1) There's actually at least one way to solve this, and one that's actually in your favor. Your insistence on not using it bothers me.
2) Using confrontational methods, the dictionary, by its admitted imperfect and "dialogue" nature, almost automatically loses.

Quote:
Vice, episode 26, 5:55 mark and onwards. His beams hit the gadgets he was targetting seemingly instantly.
Well, and here we see the power of rifle scopes and long barrels

Quote:
The greatest problem here is the lack of consistency. If the speeds in Nanoha were constant, you wouldn't hear me complaining about them. The problem is, speeds are not constant. In one scene everything and everyone is moving at a snails pace, in the other everything is high-speed combat and shots. So what do we do? Asume the slowest? Asume the fastest? I am of the opinion that we should assume the fastest. Even if we start to look at things realistically, it makes more sense, as projectiles with slow, dodgable speeds can't possibly do as much damage as we see on-screen.
See above. Consider mass. Consider fragility. Also consider that when they want 200m/s speeds, they show it. The one supersonic weapon they showed was justifiably supersonic onscreen. They know how to show fast and aren't afraid to show it (which is as it should be).

The problem is that from a analysis point of view, the time dimension of the slow scenes is much more fixed than those of the fast scenes (because Nanoverse characters jabber to each other so much). There will also be little point in having the devices talk if they really spend most of their time at the high speed - the time allowed to cast spells becomes so small.

Just try this on for plausibility.

Pho -- BAM -- ton -- BAM BAM BAM! Lan -- BAM -- BOOM KABOOM -- cer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Anyway, my standpoint is hardly what you described. My standpoint is that there is a severe difference in speed where Nanoha combat is concerned. What seems slow in one scene, suddenly seems fast in the next. Actions that look slow up close are blindingly fast from a distance. These fluctuations in speed, both in magical and physical combat, are presented on screen. Both count as 'evidence' as you put it. Yet which one is the true speed?
OK, we'll go on the premise that the only thing left to do is throw out one or another.

Quote:
I prefer to choose the fast speed for several reasons, one among them being that it increases the awesomness factor of Nanoha combat severalfold.
Obviously, 7Arcs does not agree with you. They obviously like slow combat

Quote:
The other being that the slow moving combat can be explained, while the fast moving can't (or at least, I've never heard of people doing a reverse-slow effect. Maybe for comedic purposes, but not for action).
In other words, they do it.

Ahh, I finally see. You are arguing from a legalistic precedence point of view. And there I'll agree. There are definitely more slowdowns than speedups.

There are two problems with this.

1) There are far more slow scenes than high speed scenes, and the slow scenes are far more detailed. Thus, favoring the speedy scenes will be to favor the minority of evidence.
2) VTL. As long as a scene is NOT timelocked with detailed sounds (read: voices), it may be freely time compressed or dilated without affecting its canonicity. After all, scenes do not lose their canonicity when the zoom (magnification) changes, and what is "Bullet Time" but a magnification for easier viewing in the time dimension? It does affect our ability to extract data, but a scene does not become non-canon just because it cannot be satisfactorily ranged (say b/c of an unknown zoom factor), so the same applies in the time dimension.
3) A scene that overtly breaks VTL, on the other hand, cannot be a representation (even a Increased Speed one) of reality. It is, by logical definition, a fake. It might be more fun to watch (fantasy is often more interesting than reality), but it is still a fake. Take the Clannad scene. The audience view is amusing, but ultimately, it is but a fake (as further proven by the fact that under close observation, the audience view is actually different, not just a slowed down version even if you ignore the audio). The spectator view is canon. As you can see, from an analytical point of view, the scene with voices always wins due to this basic principle of plausibility.

Quote:
And lastly, there is even a reason for those interested in applying the Laws of Physics: It also explains just why seemingly slow moving attacks can do damage they should not be able to at their speeds.
I don't like Tk's explanation of just abscribing this to magic (we are of similar ilk but among other differences he gives up one step before me). You are asking the wrong question. Consider: If such slow moving attacks can cause the damage they do, then that's canon and we have to deal with it. Physically plausible solutions that do not throw out evidence include:
1) The round is heavier than we thought it was.
2) The target is more fragile than we thought it was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
A's 05, 9:40 mark, Vita is definetely the one controling these.

Anyway, it just ticked me of that Tk turned the existence of one homing spell immediately into 'Mid has an entire arsenal of homing spells that are waaaay faster then other spells' I'm not denying that it opens roads, but that's exactly what he was talking me down for for doing, disagree and pointing out why my arguments are flawed, I'm perfectly cool with, but then to turn around and do the exact same thing ticks me off.
It is definitely homing though, Vita's ability to supplement it with her own guidance notwithstanding. At least RH thinks so (Ep 1, unless homing suddenly changed meaning in Mid), and it'll explain the clearly tailchase trajectory employed against Fate (Ep2), characteristic of primitive homing weapons that have not learnt the advantages of Proportional Navigation. The alternative is that the Vita-Graf Eisen Combat Complex put together don't have a clue about efficient trajectories.
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Old 2008-05-06, 00:19   Link #24147
Comartemis
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Quote:
Obviously, 7Arcs does not agree with you. They obviously like slow combat.
Glaring example which has probably been mentioned before: Sonic Drive.

This particular scene makes it extremely difficult for me to figure a top speed for a speed-oriented character who is nonetheless much slower than Fate in SD. I know that she's supposed to be really freaking fast in SD, but from the animation she's obviously not even moving at her usual unboosted speed, making that scene one of the crappiest animation goofs in the entire series.

So what do you do about something like this? Personally, I handwaved it and arbitrarily said Fate's top speed is somewhere south of Tensa Zangetsu. Anyone got a better figure that doesn't conform to the limitations of the "lol, laws of physics" group?
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Old 2008-05-06, 02:06   Link #24148
Keroko
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-moved to tech thread-
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Old 2008-05-06, 02:56   Link #24149
Aaron008R
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*pops in*

Excuse me for my interruption. But several Cadians I've been talking with in IRC said that they'd prefer this discussion in the Magitech thread.:3 High discomfort ratings are rising even more. Please bear with them for now and transfer please.^^

*pops out*

...

*pops back in*

BTW, Keroko. I've got a short scenario to come later that you should be interested in.

*pops out*
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Old 2008-05-06, 03:00   Link #24150
Keroko
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.. Should've known this was going to happen. Sorry about that!

Maybe I should just stop doing this and stick to my beliefs...
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Old 2008-05-06, 05:26   Link #24151
Aaron008R
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Back on business...:3 =3 >3

The Divine Hammer of Inspiration strikes in most unexpected moments.
And it just struck me a while ago. Here's the result

Spoiler for Near Epilogue of GenerationS:


I hope I got Keroko-chan right! ><
Anyways, this may or may not be part of GenerationS when it's nearing completion. But the chance is high.
And I got to try characterizing Grandis for the first time properly.

>:3

How was it?><
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Old 2008-05-06, 06:25   Link #24152
Wild Goose
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*henshins into AbareGoose*

For the last time, people. Take the tech crap to Magitech. The bumblebee flies through the sheer force of its will. In like manner as to how that story, no matter how cute, is in the end a silly fable, so is all the tech debating - it is in the end much silliness.

Now, I'm going to give magitech the finger and go back to writing. Cadia is for charecters and writing and for suggesting concepts. You wanna hard scale shit, do it in magitech.

@Aaron: Write more. With Lowe's temprary absence, you're the only purveyour of romance left. IT IS DELICIOUS GRAYATE YOU MUST WRITE IT.

...because I'm preparing Hayaurion crack.

And also.....

Spoiler for Delicious Cake!:


I would also like to remind everyone of Bellisario's Maxim: Don't examine this too closely.

This maxim was formulated by producer Donald P Bellisario at an early-1990s SF convention in response to a persistent fan with very specific questions about the way things worked on Bellisario's series Quantum Leap. It is an unashamed admission of handwaving details unnecessary to the enjoyment of a show, and an exhortation to not let the obsession with those details get in the way of the story. Implicit in the Maxim is a request to understand that the story is being told by a small production team that due to the limitations of the medium has to work quickly, with limited budget and tight deadlines, and has to dodge Executive Meddling, all while trying to turn out the best product it can.
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Old 2008-05-06, 08:12   Link #24153
Comartemis
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Quote:
I would also like to remind everyone of Bellisario's Maxim: Don't examine this too closely.
Well-said, Goose.
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Old 2008-05-06, 09:07   Link #24154
Kha
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MC 0074
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Alas, I don't have the patience to wait for the OC thread to hit 80 pages before breaking backlog. As I lay dormant, the lackeys of the Holy Empire of Techtrolls are celebrating what they call a victory of what they call the working Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha... And the OC Thread has been lamblasted for turning the series into something completely different from the original, but while they seem sympathetic to our cause, those /b/tards have no understanding of Outer Cadia's true nature...

Neither party knows what their deeds either in bringing in all these alien rules and regulations to Cadia, or slugging frivolous dismissals at our fair practices, are doing to our great nation!

My time is drying up. My techniques have failed me.

The Techtrolls may think that I have been defeated. That with Anita around I am no longer amongst the Khracky...

But they are gravely, mistaken.

The Bluecheesium and me are all that remains, but all that is necessary. For together we will raise a great army. Together we will show the Multiverse's downtrodden who the real enemy is. The Techtrolls promises us a workable and fair framework, but in the slums of Outer Cadia the homeless and hungry catgirls know the truth.

They have been forgotten! THEY HAVE NOTHING!

BUT!

Their ANGER!


We will take that spark and start a fire that will become A GREAT CONFLAGRATION!

Peace!

Through!

PIZZA!







[Commencing operation...]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
~How deep can you dig?~
~How much effort can you give?~
~How much passion can you show?~
~For the one and only OC Thread?~


About 80 pages...

BACKLOG... BREAKER.
...

Yes you will be of great use to me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
I assume you like UBW way more than Fate route, huh?
Who doesn't? I actually Rebuilt the Fate timeline creating a second one where Saber stays instead of returning, and I think it's more fun than the original "canon" ending...

Btw, in case you guys don't know, for the OC Thread, instead of the Fate timeline, the Canon timeline involves a modfied Heaven's End timeline with elements from Fate and Unlimited Blade Works. Hence KhaxFate being the "canon pairing".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
THAT WAS UNCALLED FOOOOOOoooooooorrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*me is punched to the moon*
Kha & Anita evil at the disappearing Aaron.

Keikakudoori...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
So she's tsundere here instead of compulsive toughie-girl?

But then, this is certainly interesting. I'm sure getting this ending i gonna be very rewarding.

(Yes, I want you to write a Kharoko scenario. Nao. >3)
That was outdated actually. From what I gather, Keroko's has Kyou's sharpness but is rounded by her unique level of softness combined with Tomoyo's Genki, and this description doesn't even cut it!

It's different yet the same.

I'm still thinking of it, but CLANNAD is playing a heavy influence at the moment .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
What can I say? This rabu-rabu-tsun-tsun-dere-dere interactions are the BLOODY BEST!!!
>.>

<.<

Kha: Ikuze!

Anita: Yosh!

Both: TWIN RABU SHIFTTO!

DAI HAATO PAAANCH!!!


*sends Aaron flying past the moon*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
But of course.
Like it or not, the OC-Club Danchou's influence affects all.
Ah-hahaha... Stop that, you're embarassing me...

(Keikakudoori...)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
Let me be honest. When I read this months ago. I was going thru a lot of crap in school that many should be familiar with.

And your awesomely scathing snide comments didn't help AT ALL.

I was pissed. Very, VERYROYALLY FRICKIN PISSED at how you seem to have the gall to disregard my painstakingly established details whilst using MY OC for your works. I'm sure you know that I want my characters to be as accurate to my version as possible if other people use them. And what's more, I make every single effort to be civil and polite to you, as well as helping you in your project. And what do I get? I do not get along with people with the expectancy of a reward. But I do not like attitude being thrown at my face on an almost regular basis either. And your attitude just happened to be perfect in rubbing off me the extremely wrong way then.

I understand that this may not be your intention. But the way things were, I was absolutely in no mood to take attitude I didn't like; intentional or not. For once I do not to give a damn whether you intended it or not. You pissed me off, period. This is actually one of the reasons why I took a break from OC since I might retort with something violent like disassociating my works permanently from yours, which is hardly logical and civil at all.

Anyway, I let it down by now. No hard feelings, okay?
*whistles*

Explosive. Better out than in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
Iyada.
Oh yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
My sentiments exactly... =_______=

IXA BELT: Re-di-i.

"Henshin."

Fi-su-to on.

KHHAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!
RETURN THAT LIFE TO GOD!!!!


IXA BELT: I-ku-sa Ka-ri-ba-a Ra-i-su A-pu.

*JUDGMENT SLASH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KHA*
You cannot kill the Messiah!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post



Spoiler for Kha BUREKHAAA!!!!!:
Mada, Mada!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post



WHY YOU!!!

Spoiler for Kha BUREKHAAA!!!!! EX+!!!!:


WTF IS THIS?!?!?!?!
YOUR WORST NIGHTMARE!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post


:3

Spoiler for Kha BUREKHAAA!!!!!:


>3

Now this genderbend is better, though.
Indeed, I like Yuuna a lot. Even wins a lot of points in the FF Thread, and THAT's something, considering his rep there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
Haro: Lockon! Lockon! ... Lockon! Lockon! ... Lockon! Lockon!

*salutes with respect*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post


It’s very Keroko to get wrong ideas at first glances with such things… Yaoi-thoughts here.XD XD XD

WANT MOAR YUUNOKO.

Though NanoKeroYuuno is fine too...>.>

*RUNS LIKE HEEEELLLLLL!!!!!*
Reminds me of the time Arisa dragged the cast to Comiket, and Keroko picked up a GauronXSousuke Yaoi doujin. It was AWESOME. XD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
Watched some clips and the OVA of Happiness!. And I do agree, Jun is THE MOST AWESOME TRAP I’ve ever seen!
Too bad he got dropped...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
>.>

<.<

Jiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii~~~~~……………….


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post

YUUNO=MAKUBEX?!?!?!
DOES NOT COMPUTE YET IT SOMEWHAT COMPUTES!!!
More like, HELL YEAH!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
[Setsuna]Gun...dam

Gundam...

Gunda-am...

*reaches up*

GUN-DAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!![/Setsuna]

And yeah...

Spoiler for mandatory reaction:


:3
Hmm... Mm, mm, mm... Ha... Haha... AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! AH HAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
But please don’t get carried away…>.>

Official Hayaurion is not my intention…<.<

(Actually, from what can be seen in IRC, it can be surmised that Goose shall not accept any other pairing for Hayate if it regards my OC’s…. >_____<)
Shiptease Aaron, Shippu-teesu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
KHHHHAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING WITH MY SERENA-CHAAAANNNN?!?!?!

Doing her very well thank you very much. See? She's all hot and sweaty and asking for more.

*RUNS AT THE LUDICRIOUS SPEED OF TIME*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
*MASSIVE SPITTAKE!!!*





Okaaaaayyy....

That was definitely unexpected...>____<
Keikakudoori...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post






Quite an amount of love for Fate-chan there...>.>

:3 :3 :3

>3
I wouldn't settle for any less. :3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
ORE NO HISSATSU WAZA!!! PART 2!!!!!!!
"The Pawn is out-performing the Knight, Cleric."

"I don't want to hear that coming from an immortal witch."

"Hmph. "


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post

ZOMG YOU BLEW UP ESCUTCHEON!!!!!

KISAMA!!!!!


(=3)
Come on, all of Mount Hyjal got blown to smithereens, but that just made the battle all the more GAR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
Blame 7arcs for not providing a better solo pic.=_=
IN any case, I did get another pic. Official at that. I’ll add it too.:3
Which reminds me, how is Raid Slash coming along? I need more images as the Rebuilt profiles need them. A lot. :3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
Wrong. Balmung is no melee spell.
It does THIS!!!
Spoiler for Balmung:



And believe me, swinging it around is no mean feat. Hardly something you’d use in fighting melee.

*me runs from Negima manga readers*

A melee range attack is something that should really be avoided in favour of a nice strong shield then getting away as quick as possible, using Vita’s copied spell as a distraction (just add a blinding light to it and you’ve got yourself a flashbang.)
Nonsense! Hayate's dangerous in melee because the closer you are to her, the better she can freeze you. And the way a 100% ranged mage fights is by kiting, and trust me I know the Kiting technique very well.

Expect much Hayate awesome when she finally decides to sortie from Rebuilt. :3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
WANT MOAR VITAXFELIX!!!

:3



*RUNS LIKE HELL*


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
WHEN I BREAK BACKLOG, I BEGIN AND END AT CLIMAX!!!!


Ah~...

I've never felt this alive for quite a while! I just love this place!

And of course, "Longest Backlog Breaker in History, GETTO~!!!"


Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Ahh... that might be a problem. That the Cleric-Knights never had a Primarch I knew, but hey only answer to the Seiou? The Primarch's are second-in-command to the Seiou only, the word of a Primarch is the word of the Seiou, basically. Having an entire unit that doesn't follow the Primarch's orders would be messing with Fall of an Empire.
The Sankt Kaiser can just tell them to follow said Primarch's lead, which they do, since they are also part of the palace guard. Besides, Meister Chef knows when to follow orders and when to go it alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Yes, a lot more. Though I suspect Heavens Feel to top that, reason being I never really liked Rin all that much (the great star in UBW for me was defnetely Archer).
I liked both. :3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Thank you.
*backs away nervously from t3h Trapu*

:3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
<_<
>_>

Me too...


*runs*
Keikakudoori...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
*nods while watching Aaron being chased by anembarassed Nanoha and Keroko*
Hayate: Gambatte, Oji-chan~~!
Fate: Good luck.
Kha: ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Thank you.
This mental image is getting VERY unnerving... >.>

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tormenk View Post
Hmm. I misread that as hugging his knees in a corner of the Lourve.

And Anita's a villian now?
Erm, no. -_-

Sa nee...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by XenahortCharybdis View Post
Last point...Very true. Very, very true. Things would have gotten wayyy out of hand in both cases. In StrikerS we'd see the TSAB taking out almost 3 times more Drones than in the real story no thanks to the abundance of godly snipers, and we'd have a much better plan, which would result in a more clinical, if faster, and maybe more awesome win. Kudos on that of course goes to our OC tacticians, on-site and off-site ones alike.

While in As, Reinforce Eins might have gotten killed, I swear it. Just get a diversion, and have Chief sneak up under Active Camo... *snaps fingers* you know the drill.

And then...poor Kha, he wouldn't exist like we know him. And one of my OCs would be pretty heartbroken too, if an insane person could be heartbroken

Aggressive Self Defence, you might as well call that a Counterattack, saves you the trouble of thinking up a euphemism
I seriously don't think so. I follow the policy of Hitsuzen, so not matter how many OCs we throw into the mix, events will turn out exactly the same.

Let's say OC's were involved from Day 1. Which is the case for Rebuilt. Charlene Anzelotte works up with Fate, and therefore counteracts the Nanoha and Keroko pair in Season 1. Her reasons for doing so were only revealed in Nanoha/Cente Gravia. Kha was involved in A's, as the Cleric working in the shadows against the TSAB's actions. He would NEVER have let Chief, or any of the OFM, do whatever'd they'd do, because he would want to defeat her without causing any casualties. Laugh if you want, but Kha is the type that does things the hard way, because in his heart and from the whisperings of the Naaru, he knows its the right way. Sorry for your Troll worshipping, but if the OFM were involved in A's, Cleric < Chief in this universe. That vigilante disrupted every possible "efficient" movement of the OCs pre-StrikerS as he felt that what he did was right. And when Nanoha, Keroko and Fate finally overcame the Book, the Cleric knew he was vindicated.

Otherwise things would not have turned out as it is for StrikerS.

I don't care if it disrupts continuity to Alpha; I Rebuilt Nanoha to make it work, but even with my mistakes it was NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF THE ORIGINAL FLAVOR!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixFlare View Post
Quick! History is about to be written, and justice to be done! The Sankt Kaiser's identity will finally be lifted from the mists of mysteries!
Not when the Sankt Kaiser doesn't even want her identity to be known...

However she does long for someone to look at her not as Empress Vivio, not as Saber, not as Sankt Kaiser, but just Sakura Zaki. Which Kha does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixFlare View Post
I busted my brains a few times writing that.

Revelation from Chrono imminent! ... In Chapter 11.

Small note on the Pentateuch Archive, in any case (kind of forgotten to explain this):

Spoiler for Pentateuch Archive:


Nothing much about the storyline except to tell how important the content is.
Interesting...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixFlare View Post
Canon would like to prove otherwise.


魔導師の食事 - A mage’s diet
For mages, Mana in the atmosphere is linked together in an organ, the “Linker core”, and stored within their body. For quick replenishment, a balanced diet consisting of sugars, carbohydrates and proteins is essential, as are a variety of vitamins and minerals to maintain a healthy body. Therefore out of necessity, mages undergoing hard training during their early growth period eat a much larger diet compared to an ordinary person. Furthermore, pasta and other noodle-type foods are easily digested, so these types of food, known as 「Loading Foods」, are loved by many mages, since they allow for quick energy and Mana replenishment.

You'd notice that Mana is generated within the Linker Core, and replenishment comes primarily from food and rest. While Vivian may not be a glutton, Mana is a form of energy that has its source from food, which exemplifies the fact that it's a form of physical energy that can be changed to power normal metabolism (law of energy conservation and the first law of thermodynamics). And such energies are consumed by the cells to do work; the more you have it, the more they work, and eventually they either become resistant or die.

If Vivian has "delayed aging" simply because she's brimming with Mana, Hayate is a potential candidate for such "divine manifestation", because her mana pool is large enough (SS). Yet, Hayate is not, so your argument is invalid.

And really, if Mana can be used to do everything, one wonders why there is no supra-godlike mage characters (SSS+) in entire Mid-childa. It can even be that they perish faster because of too much Mana.
That's assuming magical processing creates free radicals.

Besides, I do assume that the "dearth" of SSS is only artificial. Such powerful mages lead battalions of S-rank mages from the front in places where they are needed most, the Rim Worlds. You don't need such awesome individuals Corewards so thats why in canon we hardly see any of it. BUT, the sheer fact that the TSAB is an absolute power means that these mages MUST exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Aaron's been putting it forward, Reiji's been hating on this pairing, and I just ship Hayaurion because it's pseudocest. Well actually I ship Hayaurion for shits and giggles, and it's kinda fun to see Aaron go all swirly. It keeps me from entering AbareKillerGoose Mode.

Epic battle! Burning spirits seeking the maiden's pure heart! The epic of the month!

Aurion vs Grandis, in the battle for Hayate's heart, soul and door!

^_______________^
*applause*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
I would also like to point out that delayed aging means you'd spend a longer time as a loli. Take David Weber's Honorverse. 20-30 year olds stuck in 12 year old loli bodies thanks to delayed aging. (On the other hand it means taht 50-60 year olds can look like in their late 20s so I suppose it balances ). Basically what does that mean?

Nobody takes you seriously until you're at least 35 or 40 People look at you and go, "Meh, just a kid." Are you sure you want Vivian to have that happen to her, Comar?

I'm also personally not keen on the name Vivian because it reminds me of my onee-chan.
Then again, how are we to be sure the definition of "young" is the same as now? Puberty has been pushed backwards, so back then, a 'loli' might be a new adult.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest Dynasty View Post
Hell yeah. You should definitely give the series a watch. I LOVE the ED. Imagine Vivio having to live with Noland acting eerily similar to Kogarashi.

Spoiler for Maid Guy Noland:

Bwahaha.
Wow this is so full of LULing WIN.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest Dynasty View Post
Oh yes. Kha, have you ever considered a change in uniform for you genderbent form? Like... this one?

Spoiler for Change is Good:
Unfortunately, Kha's conservativism will get in the way of this daring outfit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest Dynasty View Post
Hmm. This sounds interesting. I'm really starting to like this idea of the Primarch. If Noland is the favored son of the Sankt Kaiser...

Well damn. Noland really does look like to be the Horus of the Belkan Empire.
Until I can work it out, I'd try to contain that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest Dynasty View Post
This is where the ambiguity and vagueness of Noland's history comes in handy. As I've said before, the truth could have been changed, warped, or misrepresented by historians writing the matter down. Thanks to this haziness, Noland's history can be easily modified to fit into just about anyone's story.

Spoiler for Spell List Ver. 2.0:
I'm not good with spells, but all this ranking does make it a little too quantified. I prefer descriptives rather than ranks and such.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reiji Tabibito View Post
Is Sophiarcas fluff acceptable...? I can do that...
>.>

<.<



Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
*Use Keroko**Use Keroko**Use Keroko**Use Keroko**Use Keroko**Use Keroko**Use Keroko**Use Keroko**Use Keroko**Use Keroko**Use Keroko**Use Keroko**Use Keroko**Use Keroko**Use Keroko**Use Keroko**Use Keroko**Use Keroko**Use Keroko**Use Keroko**Use Keroko**Use Keroko**Use Keroko*



*ME RUNS LIKE HEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!*


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post


So I'm the swirly-faced PWN-puppy, huh? >.> <.< >.<
Like I said, you have much use to me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
KHAROKO SCENARIO! NAO!!!

I'M TRYING!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
WAIT!!!

<dodges Divine Buster>

I CAN EXPLAIN!!!

<runs from Snipe Shooter>

CAN'T WE RESOLVE THIS MORE PEACEFULLY?!?!

Nanoha and Keroko: <Too busy blushing to listen>

Kha: Er... This is starting to look a little dangerous...
Fate: (smiling but emitting evil aura) But this is so fun...

Kha is tamed. >.>

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
@___@



@______@



@_________@



@____________@



@_______________@



@______________________________________________@

NUUUUUUUUU~!
EXPROZION!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Indeed... *shifty eyes*

We've been over this before...
Spoiler for Armor Lesson Re-Dux:

-_-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
O'Neil often behaves something like a ten year old in a 50 year olds body He gets bored easily and well:

Yeah...

Do it yourself that's how you get stronger!

Oh well yeah, if you don't get your lazy ass in gear that's a given.

haha well I feel the same way, but I have a feeling I'll have to accept some spoilers since your probably going to be asking me about stuff you're doing with my chars or what I have planned.
OK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
...

While somewhat cute if you do that again I'm going to have to hurt you; just to give fair notice.
for Aaron.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
I know, but there are more peacefull ways of doing so then what happened in the anime. Hayate won't stand for her knights to go into battle with people from the bureau, already eliminating combat. After that, we would have time to research it. Also note that the program took control because Hayate was in a state of despair, if Hayate was fully concious, then regaining control would be much easier. At the very least they could relocate everyone to a safe place, like an uninhabited world, and commence the operation, having the Arc en Ciel on stand-by in case things go wrong.

Of course, that is assuming there really is no other option. At that time they were sort of hard-pressed to stay alive, they didn't really have the time to figure out a good solution. With time and effort, it could very well have been possible to rewrite the Yami no Sho and revert the damage done to it, reverting it back to the Yaten no Sho. Yuuno did have more information on the Yaten no Sho then even Reinforce had.

Also, on a minor note, actually feeding the Yami no Sho also speeds up the tempo it eats its host. Not feeding it is actually delaying he entre ordeal.

Of course, this is all just baseless theorycrafting.
Just as much as we have OCs on the good side, there are even MORE OCs on the evil side...

*looks at the entire list of villains in The League that goes on forever*

...so it will balance... :3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki View Post
Alright...time for my weekly

WEEKEND BACKLOG BREAKER

...or maybe I should call it the Aaron backlog Breaker this time...
Weekly?! Weekly breakers are for the WEAK!

*is bished*



Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki View Post
I think SaSword is a better pet since he's so small and hard to hit. Not to mention the insanity that would ensue then they're trying to get him off
*imagines SaSword scrabling up target Lock's skirt, or squeezing into the cleavage of target Rogue's chest.*

Yup the insanity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
To concentrate their forces like that, they'd have to assume the Wolkies are in Uminari instead of somewhere else on the planet. Why would they assume that? If they had to spread out across even Japan alone, there'd hardly be any more people in Uminari than there were in the anime.



One hitch. How are they going to awaken the Book without feeding it? That's actually why I labelled this plan as most risky. Not that it was awaekend in a populated area.



And none of it seemed to have any hope. Everything in A's seemed to give the impression that the Book was not only corrupted, but corrupted in such a way that undoing or avoiding the corruption was impossible. Like someone purposefully designed it in such a way, like a certain anime studio for example...



Another mistranslation again? I recall one of Yuuno's briefings from the Library that the Book will consume its host if it isn't fed with magic from other mages. It does consume its host after it awakens, but that's a different event.
Hmm lots of valid points here. Good thing I don't exactly run into them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
The fact that the Wolks show up pretty frequently in Uminari should be a pretty damn big hint that they live in the area, or that there is something of interest to them in the area. They engaged Nanoha and the rest, what, two or three times in the same city? Someone would've picked up on that. Sure the first time they were after Nanoha's linker core, but why would they have come back once they got that? And that's not even counting the bureau forces they dispatched in that area prior to Nanoha's involvement.
The thing is, most of the Wolkies' movements were stealthed and rendered untrackable. While we saw many Uminari attacks, the fact is the Wolkies' scattered their attacks over many dimensions, and depening on the teleportation speeds they could be +/- 5 dimensions from Earth. I agree that this is the hint they have and they might actually be spread rather thin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
You ever had the urge to write something after just seeing an image? No wait... most of us do. I did so this morning, after seeing this image in the image thread:

Spoiler:


Spoiler for A moment in the mind of Syn:


Note: This is not Alpha canon, this is a more likely case scenario in what could eventually become kerokanon, if there is ever an S4 released. This is based on Vivio growing up far less angsty.
Awwww~~~

Indeed, and not only that more likely to be in Rebuilt fanon as well.

Btw, we have to recognize that Alpha isn't Kerokanon IMO. Kerokanon is the main events inserted with OCs. Period. As such, strictly speaking, Kerokanon only exists within the scope of Season 1 to End of StrikerS. Anything else can come close, but has a chance of becoming AU, and should be considered such.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XenahortCharybdis View Post
Spoiler for “OC Grenade 1/3: Zarakiya Justi, Executioner, Judge and Jury”:
Great work here! As usual, the spell list is too quantified for me to evaluate, but story wise it is an epic. Which era does he belong too? Sounds pretty old.

...

NO! NOT ATHRUN ZALA VS KIRA! GET OUTTA MA HEAD!!!

...



Pretty much sums up my reaction. Another deep chara here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XenahortCharybdis View Post
Sorry I had to do this doubleposting, but the forum board insisted that my post was too short.

Spoiler for “OC Grenade 3/3: A. Ricardo Cronqvist, Forgemaster’s Familiar”:


I haven't made plans entirely for what and who this guy will be...so it's in limbo.

--------------------------------

- There are another 3 OCs coming up, but I lost an argument with my longtime girlfriend, a 4GB Thumbdrive, and now she's refusing to let me have my way with our accounts. Hope we patch up, but if it don't work out, I might have to get a new one, preferably a motorbike, because a bike doesn't argue, you don't buy her diamonds, and you don't have to meet her parents. That means I'll lose all my data I invested in her, although luckily my aging nanny, my manuscript book, has yet to die on me yet, so some things are still documented in there. I didn't lose my chapters of text, thankfully. It would have killed me to lose all 14k words of that...

- And I'm reconsidering posting those three, actually.


I like how you build on you spells a lot, there's quite some detail stuck inside, it's delicious.

And... dear god, poor boy. Don't take it too hard, both about your work and your girlfriend. If it's bad, it's better to break up now than later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
The following text is a summary and compilation written by an entity who gave himself
the "Archivist" name. Ancient Belka's historical archives being mostly fragments
of the bigger history, it was quite difficult to get the full picture of what was
Ancient Belka Empire, and its greatest accomplisshment.
Spoiler for Belka the planet:


Spoiler for Author's notes:


Same as Keroko, really really good work, just that it kinda flattens our current universe...

But I gotta admit, before I knew that Belka and Midchilda were the same place, I'd cook up something like this as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
*sneaks in*

*drops package*


Spoiler for Confinement:


Spoiler for Author's notes:




*RUNS*
More background is always good. Explains how she started out being so tsundere to him too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Aren't those the same voices that do give you those good ideas?

...

DO YOU HEAR THE VOICES TOO?!?! IT IS A GOOD PAIN

*RUNS*
YOU MUST BE PURGED!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
Fine, fine. Jesus, don't bite my freaking head off, Goose, it was just an idea.

Well it's a bit late to be abandoning this little sub-project now, so I'll post what I've got so far.

Spoiler for The Helix Knights:
*spits drink*

This must be the most well done incorporation of Spiralism into Nanohaverse to date! I was intending to use this "DNA power" as an explanation to the mystery of Inherent Skills, but looks like I didn't need to look very far. Too bad some of the story points conflict with my Belka world view, but for the principles of the school of Magic, I will have some use indeed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melodius Trueheart View Post
I've been sort of talking about something called the "Lords", I think they need an explanation.

Spoiler for The Lords:
Ah I see! A new subfaction based on Earth? They might be forcibly relocated off planet or not, but I guess not...

Unless they are underground.

Either way, I see the words SUBFACTION painted all over them, and I believe Skane has plans for these guys as well...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melodius Trueheart View Post
Speaking of Lords, here is the second Bishop of The Remnant Empire of Belka, Alejandro De Sevilla

Spoiler for Alejandro De Sevilla:


Finally, a short note about the magic system they use

Spoiler for Remnant Belkan Magic:
Please excuse me while I go and scream ALEJANDRO CORNER!!!

Setsuna:



Granted it's not exactly the same person apart from the name. However, being part of something big does link the two. Remnant Belka school of magic is very interesting indeed, and adding yet another school of thought into the Belka umbrella does give it much more factionalism as seen in terran Christianity from which I modelled some principles on. Really great! Just need to work on why the TSAB would allow such a huge magical organization to remain of Earth completely eludes me though...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest Dynasty View Post
Ahh I knew it was good to wait until the weekend. Much more active.

Alrighty folks. This here is the revised character.

Spoiler for Noland ver. Beta:

If everyone approves, this will be also be the official working version. ...Until next revision, at least. I hope it's acceptable; I'll make some fancy dedicated post thing for linkage and reference later.
I am most tempted to scream "HARUHI LIVES!!!" at the sudden reduction of power there. But the whisper of a Naaru to one of the Lost Sheep usually enough to do the trick.

Yes this looks better, though I'm still not quite certain of the heresy bits. Keroko has the rest of the answers, so until I see his versions I'd say my Rebuilt of Noland would be somewhere in the middle.

But one things for sure, Noland's doomed to becoming Vivio's meido. Already, the Rebuilt Nanoka series features 2Lt. Vivio having to tustle with her long time governor. :3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
She did nothing. Even if she gave no orders, trusting in her officers, she should have done something to stay in the loop, monitor the situation, be ready to step in if she's needed. And with the large number of drones flying around, her wide-area attacks would have been very helpful in clearing them. Instead, she's holed up in the conference room "briefing" people. Something that Carim could have done.
Politics man, politics. It sometimes is so bad you are forced to make a bad decision to make a future decision to keep things going.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
Alright ladies and gents, here's the updated lineup of the Divine Phantasms. This is concurrent with my recent timelines, so barring any dramatic changes in my mood, this should be the final draft of the character lineup. Now for the characters themselves....

[SPOILER="The Divine Phantasms"]snip
Don't need to say much, cos Keroko covered most of my points already.

Hmm... Ideas...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Dwah? Noble famillies are ruling Belka now? Last I checked the church was pretty much in control of what remains of Belka.
Agreed. The Church Council/Cardinal Circle is the ruling body of the Belka Self-Administrated Region and Aligned Territories, but it doesn't stop nobles from trying to squeeze themselves in "democratically" using their vast wealth, long accumulated clout and what-not at their disposable, much like what the Venetians did in their day. In fact, the sheer size of the warchests of a US President election is indication of how much wealth is actually needed to get elected democratically.

If they didn't make it, they almost certainly found room in the Saint Guard, which apart from reservists and regulars drawn from the locals, is a giant conglomerate of private militias. This measure was introduced by the TSAB to control the Nobles powers while keeping them happy. The Braummuhl family's Forty Thieves is one such detachment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XenahortCharybdis View Post
Not taking part in any of the current discussion mini-arcs right now, I said my pieces on the IRC, and then there's some more that I don't have the liberty to plow through right now.

So anyway, my long delayed...preview is here. It's split into 3 parts, and involves some OCs I haven't posted yet (it's still on paper manuscript) so it could get confusing.

First person view. Third person can wait for the real stuff.
First try writing a Nanoha fic, so...oh well, nevermind.

Spoiler for Title]snip[/SPOILER]

[SPOILER="INTERLUDE: The Hound and the Snake
:


Spoiler for Blade of Omen:


Spoiler for Final Lines:


Spoiler for Author's notes::


And...some sleep at last. AFTER this gets on the Fanfic thread. Oh well.


Awesome work there, a great read nonetheless. I can figure out the timeline of this event to be sometime before StrikerS? And was that general Regius...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
Well great, now I need to screw with the history to get my coup working.

As for Lira, consider her dropped. I went for a nice little walk and thought of someone much better for the role of Steel Mage:

Spoiler for Say hello to Kenno Rihoko!:
...

I've nothing against the Sailors, but something else made me go >.> at the picture. I do hope I'm mistaken...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagerou View Post
...ow. My head.

Spoiler for KHA Breaker -:
Keikakudoori...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest Dynasty View Post
Ahh. Such endearing cries.

Khracky indeed.
Keikakudoori...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw View Post
[ACCESSING TSAB NAVAL ENGINEERING DATABASE...]

[ACCESS ATTAINED: OPENING TSAB NAVAL WEAPONS SYSTEMS FILES]

[COMPLETE]


[UPLOADING NEW TECHNOLOGY]

Spoiler for CLASSIFIED:


[UPLOAD COMPLETE... CLOSING DATABASE LINK]

[COVERING TRACKS]

[MISSION COMPLETE: TSAB Have 'Accquired' Sunstar Naval Weapons Technology ]


<_<

>_>

*ATC slinks away from the terminal...*


Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Being Kha. And this is tasty Crack indeed.

So why does Vivio find it familiar...

And I certainly don't hope they encounter little Keroko and her Angel Tesla. Oh, the paradoxes.
It's because... She's been there in her previous life, and ever since she merged with Saber and gained Excalibur, she can see more of her latent memories with clarity, which includes this. :3

Though the next part made me go 0_0.

So...... Kha and Keroko are destined to work together to save the world? Darn KhaxKeroko should've been canon.

There's no paradox, just just another person out there who looks familiar, has something familiar, but is in actual fact a completely different person. After all, Kerokos aren't created by divine beings as observing interveners that safeguard their creations...

...is she?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
.........

.........

.........

*saves*
Keikakudoori...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Sadly appropriate. -_- *Me despairs*
ZETSUBOSHITA! Abare Hunter ni ZETSUBOSHITA!!!

*RUNS*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki View Post
....

*ahem*

Spoiler for Another KHA Breaker as planned :3:
Keikakudoori...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Oh, you didn't know? There are Keroko's in just about any anime universe I like. The Keroko in Angelic Layer is a bright and cheerfull person who's had her share of wins and losses (her record is not as spotless as her canon compatriots) so she doesn't mind losing that much. Funny thing, due to her angels abillity to manupulate electricity, she can actually hold her ground her ground against Ohjiro fairly well.


Kha over there, is the Chief Editor of the ARCHANGEL magazine, a Angelic Layer hobby magazine published by the Eriol Academy Journalism Club. He does the layer as well, and his angel Cleric is well known for his ability to create crosses of Light to use as his weapon. He calls that skill the Thousand Cross. However, he's just a side character writing a magazine that informs both meta-universe and across the 4th Wall about events in that timeline.

...>.>

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyral View Post
I'm suprised... first time I see a picture here that I have already on my hard drive for a long time.
I'm not exactly an avid searcher, but when nuggets do show up I have to share them. :3

Quote:
Originally Posted by LimitedEternal View Post
O_O

*imagines that pic is indeed Tesla*

*imagines Tesla's reaction to this picture*

*nose explodes*
Keikakudoori...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satty View Post
Uhh....hey again...looks like you guys broke the 12k barrier...

Anyway...fake OP time! I got bored and wanted to do something else other than a chapter....

Here it is:
Spoiler for SearcherS OP:

There you go...
Great work Satty! Took a while, but yes the images do fit. Hope you get back to working on season 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
Back on business...:3 =3 >3

The Divine Hammer of Inspiration strikes in most unexpected moments.
And it just struck me a while ago. Here's the result

Spoiler for Near Epilogue of GenerationS:


I hope I got Keroko-chan right! ><
Anyways, this may or may not be part of GenerationS when it's nearing completion. But the chance is high.
And I got to try characterizing Grandis for the first time properly.

>:3

How was it?><
Funny how the Aces always leave their men ingratiated to them! Warm and fuzzy, and an eyeopener too; I learnt quite a bit on Grandis here.




The Cleric replays a video of an unsuspecting Governor of the Trolls being crushed by the mountain of backlog, then replaces it with this image:



Remember the Catgirls... For you do not fight The Cleric alone, but the legions I command.

*fizz*
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Old 2008-05-06, 09:20   Link #24155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
I would also like to remind everyone of Bellisario's Maxim: Don't examine this too closely.
Meh while this sometimes true all too often people use such things as an excuse to not have to think or defend there ideas at all. I do use this myself at times when things get too complex or contradictory to explain in detail, but this shouldn't be used as an excuse to ignore logic, precedent, and common sense altogether in the interest of doing "something cool" or the like. As with most such Maxims while cute there actual value as a guide is questionable and there meaning easily distorted. I'm sure even the guy that said it would if asked most emphatically assure you that not examining things at all is even worse.

Besides there was no real hard cacling going on there was a debate over the various aspects and limits of competing styles of magical combat and frankly that’s absolutely relevant when making or talking about character concepts IMO. Also bear in mind that to me this was a technical debate I'm not nearly as hard on actual works of fiction, but when it comes to simply debating technology or tactics and how they work or don't in a universe I'm considerably less forgiving.
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Old 2008-05-06, 09:57   Link #24156
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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Meh while this sometimes true all too often people use such things as an excuse to not have to think or defend there ideas at all. I do use this myself at times when things get too complex or contradictory to explain in detail, but this shouldn't be used as an excuse to ignore logic, precedent, and common sense altogether in the interest of doing "something cool" or the like. As with most such Maxims while cute there actual value as a guide is questionable and there meaning easily distorted. I'm sure even the guy that said it would if asked most emphatically assure you that not examining things at all is even worse.

Besides there was no real hard cacling going on there was a debate over the various aspects and limits of competing styles of magical combat and frankly thatís absolutely relevant when making or talking about character concepts IMO. Also bear in mind that to me this was a technical debate I'm not nearly as hard on actual works of fiction, but when it comes to simply debating technology or tactics and how they work or don't in a universe I'm considerably less forgiving.
The problem is that it's difficult to find that happy medium of examination and accepting that things happen because they happen - note I gave the full context of that maxim. (and even among like minded people, you can't find that happy medium. Ark and I approach these tech debates from similar points of view. I have a lower threshold than he does.)

The reason I brought it up is because at the end of the day, we're not going to actually be able to quantification and hard calcing in any real meaningful manner, which is why ATC's calcing of the Arc's firepower or ark's calcing of ranges and speeds is inherently stupid and futile.

Then again I take ark with a pinch of salt; he's not all that shit hot as he believes, and he somehow thinks we're all out to get him, and as we all saw, believes himself to be the final word on the Nanoverse, what with his analogy likening himself to a math professor. And he was insisting that rifle+bayonet = awesome melee weapon (when no military in the world trains in that anymore, and he dismissed mentions of real world doctrines that don't use rifles as melee weapons as "infodump, not argument"), as well as ergonomics equalling greater range. If ergonomics equaled range, the M4A1 and M468 should have identical range, given they have identicalergonomics: the M468 is basically an M4A1 with a different receiver and caliber. And yet it only shoots to 300 meters.

Tactics and tech I don't mind so much, but it distracts from the point of OC. OC is for new charecters and new concepts of magic. A debate on melee vs ranged in the nanoverse goes into tech.

So in summation, what the fuck was my point?

1) Hard calcing is useless.
2) Tech debating distracts from the purpose of OC.
3) Melee vs ranged depends on situation to situation. Note that TK's senarios assume a highly-competant Mid mage capable of flight, in which case it's even. On the ground, between a GF mage limited to ground combat, it's a different story. Each case depends on circumstances. Even F-22s have been taken down,

And after all this has been said and done it must be noted that I just read and roll my eyes at the debate. My OCs have both ranged and melee skills to be able to handle ranged and melee spectrums.
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Old 2008-05-06, 10:27   Link #24157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
I seriously don't think so. I follow the policy of Hitsuzen, so not matter how many OCs we throw into the mix, events will turn out exactly the same.

Let's say OC's were involved from Day 1. Which is the case for Rebuilt. Charlene Anzelotte works up with Fate, and therefore counteracts the Nanoha and Keroko pair in Season 1. Her reasons for doing so were only revealed in Nanoha/Cente Gravia. Kha was involved in A's, as the Cleric working in the shadows against the TSAB's actions. He would NEVER have let Chief, or any of the OFM, do whatever'd they'd do, because he would want to defeat her without causing any casualties. Laugh if you want, but Kha is the type that does things the hard way, because in his heart and from the whisperings of the Naaru, he knows its the right way. Sorry for your Troll worshipping, but if the OFM were involved in A's, Cleric < Chief in this universe. That vigilante disrupted every possible "efficient" movement of the OCs pre-StrikerS as he felt that what he did was right. And when Nanoha, Keroko and Fate finally overcame the Book, the Cleric knew he was vindicated.

Otherwise things would not have turned out as it is for StrikerS.

I don't care if it disrupts continuity to Alpha; I Rebuilt Nanoha to make it work, but even with my mistakes it was NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF THE ORIGINAL FLAVOR!
Which is insane this is like going back in time and murdering Hitler then expecting World War II to turn out the same; acutally it’s already different the OC being there assure that things WILL happen differently. It’s also incredibly lazy it’s basiclly like "I’ll introduce all these new elements and then NOTHING WILL CHANGE". Oh wow well that’ll be interesting tot read about! People don't want to hear the exact same damn story with a few extra characters that are never allowed to acutally do anything important becasue the writer refuses to think about how things might change and is instead sticking to a rigid script.

I'm also trying not to gag at you basiclly declaring that Kha has a divinely given Omniscient Morality License Frankly this makes me want to simply murder him. His actions are pretty much blatantly unethical "I'll fuck up the good guys efforts to deal with a threat that could KILL BILLIONS" based on a vague notion I have that god is telling me to do it." You think ANYONE is going to buy that when he spews it? At best they'll shun him in disgust as a deluded fanatic and at worst they'll throw him in prison for interfering with government business a way that could have destroyed a PLANET.

Of course I'm sure you'll respond that no there was never any risk and he simply KNEW it would turn out fine and to me that just shows the entire problem with the character.
Quote:

Besides, I do assume that the "dearth" of SSS is only artificial. Such powerful mages lead battalions of S-rank mages from the front in places where they are needed most, the Rim Worlds. You don't need such awesome individuals Corewards so thats why in canon we hardly see any of it. BUT, the sheer fact that the TSAB is an absolute power means that these mages MUST exist.
No, fucking NO this is against canon TO THE CORE the Ace’s cannot be anything special AT ALL if we have SSS ranked mages leading legions of S ranks. I don’t give a shit if it’s “The Rim” its part of the TSAB and the Aces are regarded as basiclly among THE most Elite in the TSAB period. This idea is so contradictory to that it defies easy description. Just because a scale goes up to a certain level dose not mean that level is used the Richter scales goes up to 10 or even higher yet the largest earthquake ever was merely a 9.5. It goes to 10 or over because such a thing is vaguely possible, but it’s never been recorded.

I also don't take kindly to this "tech troll" shit at all crack boy frankly the "Trolls" have contributed more content to the thread then you have in quite a while. Nor do I like you talking crap about us putting in or debating about some elements we like while while you prance around ramming so much bullshit religious symbolism into the universe that even the Pope is like “Dude okay we get maybe done it down a little?”
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Old 2008-05-06, 10:36   Link #24158
Comartemis
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Besides, I do assume that the "dearth" of SSS is only artificial. Such powerful mages lead battalions of S-rank mages from the front in places where they are needed most, the Rim Worlds. You don't need such awesome individuals Corewards so thats why in canon we hardly see any of it. BUT, the sheer fact that the TSAB is an absolute power means that these mages MUST exist.
Kha, I gotta agree with TK just this once. If there's SSS's leading armies of S-ranks, then the heroines have essentially just been reduced to being little better than mooks in the dimensional scheme of things. Me no likey.

Quote:
I also don't take kindly to this "tech troll" shit at all crack boy frankly the "Trolls" have contributed more content to the thread then you have in quite a while. Nor do I like you talking crap about us putting in or debating about some elements we like while while you prance around ramming so much bullshit religious symbolism into the universe that even the Pope is like “Dude okay we get maybe done it down a little?”
...but at the same time I agree with you here. If I see one more attempt at judging speeds by animation techniques like Kero and Ark have been doing, I'll.... I'll.... I'll do something very not-nice.

And I, for the record, like the idea of some religious elements in this universe.
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Old 2008-05-06, 11:09   Link #24159
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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Which is insane this is like going back in time and murdering Hitler then expecting World War II to turn out the same; acutally it’s already different the OC being there assure that things WILL happen differently. It’s also incredibly lazy it’s basiclly like "I’ll introduce all these new elements and then NOTHING WILL CHANGE". Oh wow well that’ll be interesting tot read about! People don't want to hear the exact same damn story with a few extra characters that are never allowed to acutally do anything important becasue the writer refuses to think about how things might change and is instead sticking to a rigid script.

I'm also trying not to gag at you basiclly declaring that Kha has a divinely given Omniscient Morality License Frankly this makes me want to simply murder him. His actions are pretty much blatantly unethical "I'll fuck up the good guys efforts to deal with a threat that could KILL BILLIONS" based on a vague notion I have that god is telling me to do it." You think ANYONE is going to buy that when he spews it? At best they'll shun him in disgust as a deluded fanatic and at worst they'll throw him in prison for interfering with government business a way that could have destroyed a PLANET.

Of course I'm sure you'll respond that no there was never any risk and he simply KNEW it would turn out fine and to me that just shows the entire problem with the character.
No, fucking NO this is against canon TO THE CORE the Ace’s cannot be anything special AT ALL if we have SSS ranked mages leading legions of S ranks. I don’t give a shit if it’s “The Rim” its part of the TSAB and the Aces are regarded as basiclly among THE most Elite in the TSAB period. This idea is so contradictory to that it defies easy description. Just because a scale goes up to a certain level dose not mean that level is used the Richter scales goes up to 10 or even higher yet the largest earthquake ever was merely a 9.5. It goes to 10 or over because such a thing is vaguely possible, but it’s never been recorded.

I also don't take kindly to this "tech troll" shit at all crack boy frankly the "Trolls" have contributed more content to the thread then you have in quite a while. Nor do I like you talking crap about us putting in or debating about some elements we like while while you prance around ramming so much bullshit religious symbolism into the universe that even the Pope is like “Dude okay we get maybe done it down a little?”
I go at this. It was just as I expected. It looks back out of context, in fact almost all I've mentioned is over simplification due to lack of time to elaborate.

Not much comments here, except that for Rebuilt, what am I expected to do? Let's not even think that far back, just StrikerS alone. Add those OCs, I had a plan that swerved from the original BECAUSE THEY WERE THERE, but it got shot down. Now I reverted to preserving the original storyline, and it gets upon.

Seriously WHAT do YOU ALL want me to do. -_-

Ah fk this, I'm going back to my first idea since I did agree that having OCs will change things drastically. Sans excessive Khrack of course. So much from trying to keep things within 1 canon week. :/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
Kha, I gotta agree with TK just this once. If there's SSS's leading armies of S-ranks, then the heroines have essentially just been reduced to being little better than mooks in the dimensional scheme of things. Me no likey.
I think it's because my ceiling is the X rank, which is HUMANLY UNATTAINABLE. I think that SS leads 1 company, SSS would be leading a Battlion, until I remember Riot 6 is too small for that.

But comparative wise, its just a rank; My X rank is your SSS limit; My SSS Commander rank is your SS rank, so on and so forth. The power levels look pretty much the same, if not only spliting the SS rank into low-SS and Hi-SS with the SS and SSS rankings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
And I, for the record, like the idea of some religious elements in this universe.
It just needs work.

I don't want to spark a debate about religiosity and atheism. It's getting rather painful to read this place.
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Old 2008-05-06, 11:17   Link #24160
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I think it's because my ceiling is the X rank, which is HUMANLY UNATTAINABLE. I think that SS leads 1 company, SSS would be leading a Battlion, until I remember Riot 6 is too small for that.

But comparative wise, its just a rank; My X rank is your SSS limit; My SSS Commander rank is your SS rank, so on and so forth. The power levels look pretty much the same, if not only spliting the SS rank into low-SS and Hi-SS with the SS and SSS rankings.
Kha, this is going to sound really hypocritical coming from me of all people, but unless you're giving the Aces and the Forwards a significant rank boost, your limit is too damn high!
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