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Old 2008-05-05, 14:59   Link #61
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO View Post
Well just to throw more petrol on the flames of debate i present to you....

A picture that suspiciously looks similar to the ship from M-Galaxy.

It's a Vf-4, but is different from a Lightening III version.


F*CK IT, I wait until next episode to confirm it for everybody!

But if Macross Galaxy did employ VF-4s en-masse, then seriously, God bless them, because the Vajra obviously DIDN'T!

- Tak

Last edited by Tak; 2008-05-05 at 16:55.
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Old 2008-05-05, 17:41   Link #62
Onizuka-GTO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
F*CK IT, I wait until next episode to confirm it for everybody!

But if Macross Galaxy did employ VF-4s en-masse, then seriously, God bless them, because the Vajra obviously DIDN'T!

- Tak
LOL

I'll drink to that.


Let's wait for the next episode.


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Old 2008-05-06, 00:03   Link #63
4Tran
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I'm currently rewatching Macross Zero, and while I still can't say all that much for the story, one thing really stood out for me in episode 3. The VF-0 floats. With an empty mass of 16 tons (loaded mass probably around 25 tons), and a fighter length of 18.69m, it's probably less dense than water, so this makes perfect sense. I'm rather amazed that any production staff sees fit to pay this kind of attention to the way their technology should work.
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Old 2008-05-06, 00:20   Link #64
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
I'm currently rewatching Macross Zero, and while I still can't say all that much for the story, one thing really stood out for me in episode 3. The VF-0 floats. With an empty mass of 16 tons (loaded mass probably around 25 tons), and a fighter length of 18.69m, it's probably less dense than water, so this makes perfect sense. I'm rather amazed that any production staff sees fit to pay this kind of attention to the way their technology should work.
Like the producers of Yukikaze, Kawamori went as far as consulting an entire Japanese Air Self-Defense Force staff team for technical assistance. They deserve some major credits for getting things right.

Thus one of the reasons why I still love Macross more than anything else, even more than Gundam.

- Tak
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Old 2008-05-06, 03:01   Link #65
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I seem to have found a match for the design lineage for the fighter profile in the opening.

V-BR-2



Unit type: developmental reconnaissance bomber
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Old 2008-05-06, 04:16   Link #66
Onizuka-GTO
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Yeah. i have to agree wolf-kun, the profile seems to fit, right down to the vector tails.

It's certainly not the same as the plane at the end of ep5.

I still believe that is a form of VF-4, maybe civilian/scout model, that can only transform to gerwalker only.
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Old 2008-05-06, 07:23   Link #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Like the producers of Yukikaze, Kawamori went as far as consulting an entire Japanese Air Self-Defense Force staff team for technical assistance. They deserve some major credits for getting things right.

Thus one of the reasons why I still love Macross more than anything else, even more than Gundam.

- Tak
i read somewhere, that kawamori visit the base of hte movie Top Gun when he make Macross Plus.

Yeah me too, Macross is my favorite series ever
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Old 2008-05-06, 20:13   Link #68
Haesslich
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I still say that the fold-capable fighter at the end of Episode 5 is a VF-11 with FAST pack.

See exhibit A:

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/macross/plus/vf-11b-super.htm

If you compare it to the show from the end there, they have a VERY similar style of FAST pack, and the ailerons plus the swelling nosecone, which is unlike the rather straight nosecone of the VF-4 which didn't curve out a bit before tapering off again. Between that and the cockpit configuration, along with the fact that it's an OLD fighter... it'd be more useful as a courier than as a front-line fighter, especially compared to the newer VF-17's and VF-171's.
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Old 2008-05-07, 00:34   Link #69
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Like the producers of Yukikaze, Kawamori went as far as consulting an entire Japanese Air Self-Defense Force staff team for technical assistance. They deserve some major credits for getting things right.
As far as I can tell, quite a few anime (and live action for that matter) have military advisers. However, their advice tends to get overruled, and the end result is usually decidedly unrealistic. Kawamori is an obvious military otaku, so I guess it helps in this regard, but I'm still surprised when little details like a floating VF-0 feel so right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadorna View Post
i read somewhere, that kawamori visit the base of hte movie Top Gun when he make Macross Plus.
Heh. I heard that he originally wanted to make an anime version of Top Gun, but he got convinced into making it a Macross story as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haesslich View Post
I still say that the fold-capable fighter at the end of Episode 5 is a VF-11 with FAST pack.
I think that it's more likely to be a new Valkyrie rather than a pre-existing one. If they were playing for nostalgia, they could have either shown off a VF-1 or used VF-19s instead of VF-171s.
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Old 2008-05-07, 01:17   Link #70
Haesslich
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
I think that it's more likely to be a new Valkyrie rather than a pre-existing one. If they were playing for nostalgia, they could have either shown off a VF-1 or used VF-19s instead of VF-171s.
Given that the VF-171 looks almost identical to the VF-17 from Macross 7 with the addition of a slightly extended nosecone and a less bulbous engine cowling, the new fighter may be a VF-11 descendant or redesign, if not an actual VF-11 itself. It's not like the series AVOIDS playing on nostalgia - if they weren't, we wouldn't have had as many homages as we've seen so far, the school Alto goes to wouldn't have to be designed to resemble the original ASS-1 in firing position, nor would they have had to bring back the Queadlunn-Rea/Rau's instead of just letting Klein and company pilot all-new Zentradi designs or VF's in miclone form.

Heck, they even brought the VB-6 in from Digital Mission VF-X-2 into the main show here; I don't see them being afraid to introduce old fighters from previous series, given this is a 25th anniversary series to celebrate the Macross franchise. However, the lines of the fighter do suggest the VF-11 as being the basis for the design, whether it is a homage to the 'classic' fighter of Macross Plus/Macross 7, or if it's a whole new design that we've yet to see deployed by the NUNS in the Frontier fleet. We know that various fleets have different standards and laws as well as mores, according to what Grace and Sheryl have revealed... so they may well have different companies supplying each fleet with their fighters, explaining the differences we've seen in deployed units across the various OVA's.

Well, on top of the whole 'it was a movie/dream' thing...
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Old 2008-05-07, 07:35   Link #71
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran
Heh. I heard that he originally wanted to make an anime version of Top Gun, but he got convinced into making it a Macross story as well.
I think he partially realized that part of hims dream with Mac Zero.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haesslich View Post
Given that the VF-171 looks almost identical to the VF-17 from Macross 7 with the addition of a slightly extended nosecone and a less bulbous engine cowling, the new fighter may be a VF-11 descendant or redesign, if not an actual VF-11 itself. It's not like the series AVOIDS playing on nostalgia - if they weren't, we wouldn't have had as many homages as we've seen so far, the school Alto goes to wouldn't have to be designed to resemble the original ASS-1 in firing position, nor would they have had to bring back the Queadlunn-Rea/Rau's instead of just letting Klein and company pilot all-new Zentradi designs or VF's in miclone form.
And yet, I think the de-folded unit is nothing more than a aerospace craft in its most simple form fitted with FTL equipment. Heck, I don't think its a frontline fighter, at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran
Heck, they even brought the VB-6 in from Digital Mission VF-X-2 into the main show here; I don't see them being afraid to introduce old fighters from previous series, given this is a 25th anniversary series to celebrate the Macross franchise.
The VB-6 wasn't exactly a fighter. It was more of a ground artillery support system. Its been upgraded into a variable equipment from its original form due to the need for mobility, and not intended for front-line engagement. Unless of course, one has a deathwish.

- Tak
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Old 2008-05-07, 08:21   Link #72
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Whoa, all this talk about Valkyries is overwhelming! I remember being drawn to SDF Macross because of the fighter planes, probably because I was influenced by relatives in the air force, and the fact that I had first watched Top Gun and Independence Day, and was glad that these movies would have an anime equivalent. To be honest, it was somewhat a minor letdown for me to discover that they transform into robots (not another mecha, I must've thought).

But of course Macross had a lot of other appealing things to offer, mainly the title ship itself, SDF-1. I'm a sucker for the lone kickass ship battling the odds, and the fact that SDF-1 had this real BIG GUN got me quite worked up.

I'm hoping that Episode 6, judging from the preview, would feature Battle-25 being deployed to action. With the way it's drawn, I think it'll have more moves than the Daedalus Punch. If it starts squishing--literally--the Vajra like the bugs that they really are, I'd be grinning ear to ear.
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Old 2008-05-07, 09:56   Link #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post

The VB-6 wasn't exactly a fighter. It was more of a ground artillery support system. Its been upgraded into a variable equipment from its original form due to the need for mobility, and not intended for front-line engagement. Unless of course, one has a deathwish.

- Tak

yeah. originally it was a heavy artillery destroid, you could see them walking on the SDF-1



VB-6 is mor or less it's successor, i'm glad it's goingto be animated.

it needs more love.

Plus it's battroid form is more or less bigger then a full size zentradi.

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Old 2008-05-07, 11:42   Link #74
pinoy78
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The VF-25 has finally been named.

VF-0 Phoenix
VF-1 Valkyrie
VF-4 Lightning
VF-11 Thunderbolt
VF-17 Nightmare
VF-19 Excalibur
VF-22 Sturmvogel
VF-25 MESSIAH

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Old 2008-05-07, 11:59   Link #75
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Messiah!? That's too bad - I was hoping for "Flanker" . Oh well, none of the variable fighters had their names used onscreen much (if at all) - the VF-0 was called the "Zero", and all subsequent fighters were called Valkyries. The obvious exception to this is the VF-1, but it doens't count for all sorts of reasons.
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Old 2008-05-07, 13:35   Link #76
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Messiah? That's a little...different from the others.
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Old 2008-05-07, 13:38   Link #77
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"Messiah" >_<, omg they shot down the Messiah!?!!

The name is pretty pretentious. With the throw back to the swept wings they should have called it the "Tomcat" :P
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Old 2008-05-07, 15:12   Link #78
Tak
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Let me first by making additions to pinoy78's list (because I can):

VF-0 Phoenix
VF-1 Valkyrie
VF-4 Lightning
VF-9 Cutlass *
VF-11 Thunderbolt
VF-14 Vampire *
VF-17 Nightmare
VF-19 Excalibur
VF-22 Sturmvogel
VF-25 MESSIAH
VF-171 _Insert Name Here_ *
VF-3000 Crusader *
VF-5000B Star Mirage *

You know, millions of names were submitted and Messiah was the one that got through.

Well, ok, I can accept it, albeit with some reluctance. I have to admit, it does sound uniquely different from others, although I doubt the name itself will ever be spoken in the anime.

- Tak (I was expecting something like 'Weissgrief", but meh...)

Last edited by Tak; 2008-05-07 at 16:56.
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Old 2008-05-07, 16:05   Link #79
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The sooner a "Messiah" gets blown up, the better.

...Valks have ejector seats right?
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Old 2008-05-07, 16:19   Link #80
Haesslich
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4Tran: I'm so tempted to drop in a C&C quote here after getting the VF-25's name... but I'll resist the temptation to quote Kane.

And yes, I'd have hoped for a 'Tomcat' or 'Fokker', or even 'Sabre' instead of 'Messiah' as a fighter name.

Tak: The VB-6 Konig isn't a fighter, but it IS a flying Monster... which solved the main mobility issue of the original. The point for me (and I quoted that, not 4Tran), wasn't that it was a fighter... but that it was brought out of a game to be dropped into the main universe, and definitely was a homage to the old Monster of the original Macross, so I can't see them being afraid to show earlier fighters in the series or designs which hearken back to them.

And at this point, the VF-11 wouldn't be a front-line fighter; given the VF-17 was supposed to be its replacement, and the VF-171 seems to have replaced the VF-17... it'd be like sending a VF-4 out to fight the Vajra.
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