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Old 2008-05-09, 12:40   Link #1801
iamandragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade_Lord View Post
That's true but the fact it can only take 7 lives out of Berserker...thats the limit of calliburn. Excallibur beam however can took out all of Berserker's life in one shot provided its fully charged if Im not mistaken.


Tsk.


If this is consider to be true the reason arturia heracles and other servants are strong is because of the famous legends spread to the extent of the FSN timeline in other words until the 5th holy grail war. If you don't know Hercules nor King Arthur theres still many others do and so one or two peeps not knowing wouldn't really make that much a difference. That being said you could say it is pretty much the reason 2 servant and shirou are needed to defeat the great Greek hero Hercules. Archer?! We don't know anything except he's the future shirou theres something bad happen to him that makes him act like that and he plays an important role in UBW route. Servant spirit are strong if their mana reserves is high their noble phantasm is of high rank and how well known that servant is.
And their master as well. A master will allow the stats of servants to rise/fall accordingly. For example, when Shirou is the master of Saber, her mana was only 'B' while Rin gave her 'A' in mana. Note that a better master does not always rise luck, though. (Saber with Emiya Kiritsugu as master had 'E' for luck...)

Quote:
Is lancer a womanizer??
No. He's just plain wild.

Quote:
Is it true that Nasu fell in love with Kanshou and Bakuya sword and thus they make debut in FSN??
Really? Where do you get this impression from?

Quote:
Avenger is an anti-hero and so is rider so how can they be summoned from the throne of heroes?
Due to the summon of angry mayo in the third HGWar, the HG is tainted, and thus resulting in the possibility of the summoning of anti-heros.
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Old 2008-05-09, 18:27   Link #1802
OceanBlue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade_Lord View Post
Avenger is an anti-hero and so is rider so how can they be summoned from the throne of heroes?
Because the Holy Grail, like the Magic Association, does not make the distinction between good or evil when choosing 'heroes'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Type-Moon Wikia
Heroes are those who have achieved greatness. Regardless of the authenticity, they are supermen whose feats are firmly believed in and have been transmitted in legends.
It is to be noted that this implies a Heroic Spirit doesn't necessarily follow the common understanding of the word "hero": Heroic Spirits can be evil-aligned as long as they are legendary. Hence, Gilles de Rais, Medusa and Medea are indeed Heroic Spirits.
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Heroic_Spirit
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Old 2008-05-10, 01:22   Link #1803
Blade_Lord
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Quote:
Overedge

See: Shirou vs Black Saber - END (scene translation)

During the Sakura route, Emiya Shirou makes great usage of Kanshou and Bakuya in his fight against Black Saber.


But if their legitimate owner -Archer- was doing it, the Overedges would be the result. In the serial Tracing, the third and last pair of Kanshou and Bakuya would assume this shape when reinforced.

The design comes from the animated version of the fight between Archer and Berserker, and was created by Koyama Toshihisa (art director for the Fate/stay night anime); Nasu Kinoko fell in love with the dangerous look of the knives.

The blade is twice as tall as the regular Kanshou & Bakuya, but splinters cover the blade from the ridge to the edge. The original usage of the triple pair of wings is three consecutive X-shaped strikes, without any flying or leaping.

Source: the Character Material encyclopedia entry (p.53)
I dunno about this part being reliable since peeps tend to exaggerate their stories.

Quote:
Due to the summon of angry mayo in the third HGWar, the HG is tainted, and thus resulting in the possibility of the summoning of anti-heros.
She strikes again:P

More question coming up:

So if Arthuria a.k.a Saber encounter Cu Chulain in 4th holy grail war she'll be dead by his Gae Bolg??

What determines the luck of the servant?? The holy grail or the master??

Did Nasu said anything about Archer's age??

In the game did fake assassin said that he's a fictional hero or is it another thing which the anime makes up with??

Is Saber invisible sword an excallibur with an invisibility sheath or a sword made up of compressed air??

How long can archer and shirou maintain their Unlimited Blade Works??

Is the shape of command mantra based on the master, the servant or the class of the servant??
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Old 2008-05-10, 07:11   Link #1804
iamandragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OceanBlue View Post
Because the Holy Grail, like the Magic Association, does not make the distinction between good or evil when choosing 'heroes'.



http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Heroic_Spirit
That's a good point you've made. However, since the original HG was made of elements on the 'light' side, it was only capable of summoning positive heros. It was until the third HG war where Angra Mainya(not angry mayo :P) tainted the grail when it was defeated and absorbed into the grail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade_Lord View Post
I dunno about this part being reliable since peeps tend to exaggerate their stories.
Should be reliable--they even cited their reference, so you can go and check it out yourself.

Quote:
So if Arthuria a.k.a Saber encounter Cu Chulain in 4th holy grail war she'll be dead by his Gae Bolg??
Not neccessary. There are many things that would otherwise affect the outcome of a battle. Masters play a huge roles in the HG Wars too.

Quote:
What determines the luck of the servant?? The holy grail or the master??
The servant itself as well as the master. Add Nasu's mind in it if you want to.

Quote:
Did Nasu said anything about Archer's age??
So far as I remember, no.

Quote:
In the game did fake assassin said that he's a fictional hero or is it another thing which the anime makes up with??
Yes he did tell Saber that he is not real, in both routes.

Quote:
Is Saber invisible sword an excallibur with an invisibility sheath or a sword made up of compressed air??
Invisible Sword is a wind-type enchantment put around Excalibur(not an excalibur, it's not a catagory!) which bends the light away in a way such that others cannot see the sword itself.

Quote:
How long can archer and shirou maintain their Unlimited Blade Works??
No idea.

Quote:
Is the shape of command mantra based on the master, the servant or the class of the servant??
No idea. I guess it's random?
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Old 2008-05-10, 07:37   Link #1805
Blade_Lord
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Spoiler for Fate Zero:


So the invisible sword is actually an Excallibur with a wind sheath??

How does Illya know about Caster losing her master in the anime??

How long is it does it take for Gilgamesh to summon out his NP which shirou not traced yet??Okay Im asking this because Im trying to figure out how long does Shirou took to trace the weapon and project it...
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Old 2008-05-10, 10:26   Link #1806
Blade_Reaper387
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[QUOTE=Blade_Lord;1584959]
Spoiler for Fate Zero:


http://img131.imageshack.us/my.php?i...mbolqs1eo5.png
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Old 2008-05-10, 10:37   Link #1807
iamandragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade_Lord View Post
Spoiler for Fate Zero:
Emiya senior and Emiya junior's command mantras are different. My assumption is that the magician's magic circuit's shape and their magic property affects the shape--look how Tohsaka senior and Tohsaka junior's command mantra look so alike!
If you can someone befriend(not the Nanoha way) Nasu you can ask him how the shape of them are determined...
Here's an image of all the known command mantras:
Spoiler for size:

Quote:
So the invisible sword is actually an Excallibur with a wind sheath??
No. Invisible sword is the name of the enchantment around Excalibur.

Quote:
How does Illya know about Caster losing her master in the anime??
No.

Quote:
How long is it does it take for Gilgamesh to summon out his NP which shirou not traced yet??Okay Im asking this because Im trying to figure out how long does Shirou took to trace the weapon and project it...
That was my intention too, to calculate how fast Archer can trace. Unfortunately I cannot find out. If you have any clues, please let us know.

Last edited by iamandragon; 2008-05-10 at 11:11.
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Old 2008-05-10, 12:26   Link #1808
Blade_Lord
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Quote:
No.
The question is reasoning question not a yes or no question or is it something that the anime make up again??

If we use anime as basis then he should be able to take it out in 3 second at the most. Unless there is something in the game which nasu show then its pretty much 3 secs and Shirou took about what 2.9 sec at the most?? And I don't really think it'll take more than that unless the Noble phantasm is a huge one about the size of Berserker 'blade'

Spoiler for Fate Zero:


Is it possible to activate the reality marble without saying the incantation and just the name of reality marble??
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Old 2008-05-10, 15:54   Link #1809
iamandragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade_Lord View Post
The question is reasoning question not a yes or no question or is it something that the anime make up again??
My apologies on the mistake--she doesn't know about Caster's previous master.

Quote:
If we use anime as basis then he should be able to take it out in 3 second at the most. Unless there is something in the game which nasu show then its pretty much 3 secs and Shirou took about what 2.9 sec at the most?? And I don't really think it'll take more than that unless the Noble phantasm is a huge one about the size of Berserker 'blade'
Problem is, the anime is inaccurate. If only there's a CG of Gilgamesh firing his swords at Saber in the game(please note that I only take the PC game as accurate), then I can deduce how fast Gilgamesh can take out and shoot his swords. With that I can then deduce how fast Saber charges, which would allow me to deduce how fast Archer trace at maximum speed.

Spoiler for Fate Zero:

Diarmuid Ua Duibhne

Quote:
Is it possible to activate the reality marble without saying the incantation and just the name of reality marble??
Yes. Apparantly Shirou is the only one who need to say incantation. All the other characters in the T-Moon universe that possess a reality marble are powerful enough to activate it without chanting.
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Old 2008-05-11, 09:27   Link #1810
Blade_Lord
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I need to confirm something....

Quote:
My apologies on the mistake--she doesn't know about Caster's previous master.
In the anime she knows that caster loses her master and reside in Ryudouji. Is that just a deduction of hers??

The swords that is in UBW...can Shirou or archer unleash each and every swords true power?? Or are they just like Gilgamesh Gate of Babylon's Noble phantasm to be used to shoot at the enemy and finally finish the off with Enuma Ealish??

Can Gate of Babylon be considered as Noble phantasm?? Now that I mention it does all noble phantasm in Gate of Babylon an offensive type?? Cause I can't really imagine a god hand or Rho Aias to be shoot out like other Noble phantasm or to be pulled out from the Gate of babylon....

Spoiler for Heaven's feel:


Different archer from different timeline should vary in strength right?? The shirou in Fate Stay Night will probably become an archer who can use 'avalon' and shirou from UBW should be able to master UBW by the time he's archer age right??

What does Caster mean "A servant from the 3 knight class servant should be able to defeat me but it's impossible for you rider."

What unchivalrously act that Arturia commit that causes her to lost that sword??

Quote:
Problem is, the anime is inaccurate. If only there's a CG of Gilgamesh firing his swords at Saber in the game(please note that I only take the PC game as accurate), then I can deduce how fast Gilgamesh can take out and shoot his swords. With that I can then deduce how fast Saber charges, which would allow me to deduce how fast Archer trace at maximum speed.
That is true but if gilgamesh took longer than five second to summon the noble phantasm he would most certainly die when using it against servant saber....

What is the catalyst needed to summon Cu Chulainn??

Fragarach isn't it a sword that belongs to Cu Chulain which is forged by the gods??

Enkidu are meant to restrain the servant with a high divinity right?? Can a servant struggle of the Enkidu if he does not have any divinity running in his blood?

What is the lowest rank needed to dodge Cu Chulainn Gae Bolg ?

Can assassin's Tsubame Gaeshi hurt Berserker??

I've seen a trailer about FSN and there's something in there that's missing in Fate Stay Night anime like Lancer coming through the ceiling to fight Shirou and also the fight against saber, in the anime Lancer doesn't look that much but I'm having second thought just from seeing the review...Why do they cut this scene??
Perhaps I ask too much...

Last edited by Blade_Lord; 2008-05-11 at 10:18.
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Old 2008-05-11, 11:02   Link #1811
iamandragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade_Lord View Post
In the anime she knows that caster loses her master and reside in Ryudouji. Is that just a deduction of hers??
Most likely--but there's a chance that she, as one of the three core families of the HG War, she might just as well as her own source of information. Nothing about that was mentioned in the original story(PC game), though.

Quote:
The swords that is in UBW...can Shirou or archer unleash each and every swords true power?? Or are they just like Gilgamesh Gate of Babylon's Noble phantasm to be used to shoot at the enemy and finally finish the off with Enuma Ealish??
They can unleash partially the power of the swords, but not the true power, unlike Gilgamesh who can only hold them at its best. IF Enuma Ealish can be traced, that they might be able to unleash it, as well.

Quote:
Can Gate of Babylon be considered as Noble phantasm?? Now that I mention it does all noble phantasm in Gate of Babylon an offensive type?? Cause I can't really imagine a god hand or Rho Aias to be shoot out like other Noble phantasm or to be pulled out from the Gate of babylon....
Actually, the noble phantasm is the 'key' that opens the Gate of Babylon, not the gate itself. He owns all the 'artifact type' Noble Phantasms' prototype. So Noble Phantasms that are not an artifact, he doesn't own them. The amount Gilgamesh can take out from his Gate of Babylon is proportional to his master's wealth, so the richer the master, the better equipment he can take out.(one can say he is weaker in the 5th HG war due to the incapability to take out most of his weapons)


Quote:
Spoiler for Heaven's feel:
The unlocking is done with an incantation, not the true name. Kansha and Bakuya doesn't have much to unleash themselves(unlike Excalibur).
If not, how can he fight the oncoming battle?

Quote:
Different archer from different timeline should vary in strength right?? The shirou in Fate Stay Night will probably become an archer who can use 'avalon' and shirou from UBW should be able to master UBW by the time he's archer age right??
Much argument here, but if Archer is Shirou from one of the three routes(not another timeline), then the only Shirou capable of becoming Archer is the Fate route Shirou. pm me for more information as this would take long.

Quote:
What does Caster mean "A servant from the 3 knight class servant should be able to defeat me but it's impossible for you rider."
The three knight class servants are Saber, Archer and Lancer. They are considered more 'noble' than other servants and granted more abilities. Possibility is that this is inserted in the beginning of the creation of HG War so the three families can summon the 3 knight classes and defeat all other servants the easy way. These 3 servant classes all have natural magic resistance themselves unlike other servants.

Quote:
That is true but if gilgamesh took longer than five second to summon the noble phantasm he would most certainly die when using it against servant saber....
That's the 'possible maximum time', but it's inaccurate. I have already calculated how long it takes for Ea, and I want to do this in that fashion too--with facts and prooves.

[quote]What is the catalyst needed to summon Cu Chulainn??
One of his belongings during his life time? Cu Chulainn, however, was probably summoned without a catalyst in the 5th HG War.

Quote:
Enkidu are meant to restrain the servant with a high divinity right?? Can a servant struggle of the Enkidu if he does not have any divinity running in his blood?
Given enough power, anyone can struggle it off...

Quote:
What is the lowest rank needed to dodge Cu Chulainn Gae Bolg ?
No idea. Saber is the only one who dodged it with 'B' luck, so you can make an estimation?

Quote:
Can assassin's Tsubame Gaeshi hurt Berserker??
No. It's only powerful in terms of skill, but the rank is not high enough.

Quote:
I've seen a trailer about FSN and there's something in there that's missing in Fate Stay Night anime like Lancer coming through the ceiling to fight Shirou and also the fight against saber, in the anime Lancer doesn't look that much but I'm having second thought just from seeing the review...Why do they cut this scene??
Perhaps I ask too much...
Abandoned? To begin with these scenes did not happen at all in the game. My guess is that they made theses scenes without enough in the game, and later was corrected by T-Moon staff saying 'these didn't happen!'
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Old 2008-05-11, 13:42   Link #1812
Gortaur
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Quote:
What unchivalrously act that Arturia commit that causes her to lost that sword??
Killing unarmed enemy causes the sword to shatter ,correct me if i am wrong.
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Old 2008-05-12, 10:57   Link #1813
Blade_Lord
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Found the image on Caster Command Mantra after using rule Breaker....If this pic is true then I think the Command mantra is based on the servants.....or Shirou is under the same lineage as Medea which is very unlikely....
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Old 2008-05-12, 11:43   Link #1814
iamandragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade_Lord View Post
Found the image on Caster Command Mantra after using rule Breaker....If this pic is true then I think the Command mantra is based on the servants.....or Shirou is under the same lineage as Medea which is very unlikely....
This picture is true, but you have made a slight blunder here--Caster robbed the command mantras from Shirou, so it has to be of the same shape. For example, if you take my felt pen, there is no way it is going to turn into a pencil, right?
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Old 2008-05-12, 12:12   Link #1815
Blade_Lord
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Your analogy is correct but we're talking bout command mantra here...it may change shape due to master's circuit... For example if I stole your ice cube and brings it to the desert it will melt and transform into water right??
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Old 2008-05-12, 12:59   Link #1816
iamandragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade_Lord View Post
Your analogy is correct but we're talking bout command mantra here...it may change shape due to master's circuit... For example if I stole your ice cube and brings it to the desert it will melt and transform into water right??
Command Mantras does not change shape. It has been explained in the beginning where they can be exchanged among masters. Also in Fate/Zero, it has been demonstrated that command mantras remain their own shape when transferred.(I always do my homework and look up references >< )
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Old 2008-05-12, 14:43   Link #1817
OceanBlue
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Why are you guys trying to make incomplete comparisons between command mantras and <Insert Other>? The thing you have to remember is that when you're making comparisions, you have to be aware of the objects you're comparing and be sure that they're the same.

For example, if I took the ice cube analogy and changed 'ice cube' with 'ink pen', do you think the phrase would still be true? Of course not, because ice cubes are not the same as ink pens. Only compare items when you're sure the qualities you're comparing are the same.

I light a bomb, and it blows up. Does that mean if I light the universe, it'll blow up?
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Old 2008-05-12, 15:05   Link #1818
iamandragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OceanBlue View Post
Why are you guys trying to make incomplete comparisons between command mantras and <Insert Other>? The thing you have to remember is that when you're making comparisions, you have to be aware of the objects you're comparing and be sure that they're the same.

For example, if I took the ice cube analogy and changed 'ice cube' with 'ink pen', do you think the phrase would still be true? Of course not, because ice cubes are not the same as ink pens. Only compare items when you're sure the qualities you're comparing are the same.

I light a bomb, and it blows up. Does that mean if I light the universe, it'll blow up?
Don't worry, OceanBlue, I just made a pretty bad metaphor(which rose a lot of misunderstanding, my apologies on that), but I've proved with facts that Command Mantras does not change shape upon transferral, so it's all good now.
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Old 2008-05-12, 15:15   Link #1819
OceanBlue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamandragon View Post
Don't worry, OceanBlue, I just made a pretty bad metaphor(which rose a lot of misunderstanding, my apologies on that), but I've proved with facts that Command Mantras does not change shape upon transferral, so it's all good now.
It wasn't just you, but if you've proven it then it's fine.
[Didn't know about the Command Mantra thing.]
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Old 2008-05-12, 16:12   Link #1820
Shana
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I feel like I'm getting in the middle of a conversation, but nevermind. I am curious, so I'll say:

Spoiler for Game:


kthxs!!!!
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