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Old 2008-05-13, 22:05   Link #1081
Kang Seung Jae
神聖カルル帝国の 皇帝
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenken627 View Post
Really. Explain to me how?
Call me cynical, but most people in this world say things that contradict each other. They act in a certain way that contradicts with their words. And they doesn't even notice it.


I see no difference between that and Suzaku. Suzaku seems abnormal because most of the characters in anime are just "perfect" compared to rality.
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Old 2008-05-13, 22:07   Link #1082
Dann of Thursday
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Yeah, Suzaku is probably the most realistic character in this show. He probably reminds some people of themselves and that's why some may hate him.
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Old 2008-05-13, 22:10   Link #1083
tenken627
what Yagi said
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae View Post
Call me cynical, but most people in this world say things that contradict each other. They act in a certain way that contradicts with their words. And they doesn't even notice it.


I see no difference between that and Suzaku. Suzaku seems abnormal because most of the characters in anime are just "perfect" compared to rality.
I agree with you. We all say things that contradict each other. That's part of human nature.

That is not what I meant when I wrote that.

What I mean is that the creators of Suzaku just really didn't put much thought into Suzaku's thought process.

It's like me saying to you "I hate apples, and the reason why I still eat them is because they are disgusting."

So, you know I hate apples, but the reasoning that I use for still eating them when I hate them is just totally illogical.

Hating apples and finding them disgusting is fine by itself. But, why in my actions do I eat them?
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Old 2008-05-13, 22:11   Link #1084
DarkLordOfkichiku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
Yeah, but there wouldn't be these stupid arguments and people trying to convince themselves that Lelouch is actually a good person and someone who should win.
Well, both Lelouch AND Suzaku ARE good persons at heart
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Old 2008-05-13, 22:13   Link #1085
Lowell1025
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realistic as in....don't know what they are saying and doing what they think they are doing but not doing?

sorry I couldnt resist
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Old 2008-05-13, 22:14   Link #1086
Lowell1025
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenken627 View Post
I agree with you. We all say things that contradict each other. That's part of human nature.

That is not what I meant when I wrote that.

What I mean is that the creators of Suzaku just really didn't put much thought into Suzaku's thought process.

It's like me saying to you "I hate apples, and the reason why I still eat them is because they are disgusting."

So, you know I hate apples, but the reasoning that I use for still eating them when I hate them is just totally illogical.

Hating apples and finding them disgusting is fine by itself. But, why in my actions do I eat them?
because actually you are very hungry?
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Old 2008-05-13, 22:15   Link #1087
Ice_Bullet
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Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
I just see him as a rather sad character honestly because of how he is.
how is he sad then? the lost of lelouch? the lost of euphy?
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Old 2008-05-13, 22:16   Link #1088
tenken627
what Yagi said
 
 
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Originally Posted by Lowell1025 View Post
because actually you are very hungry?
LOL, touche touche
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Old 2008-05-13, 22:18   Link #1089
Kang Seung Jae
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenken627 View Post
What I mean is that the creators of Suzaku just really didn't put much thought into Suzaku's thought process.

It's like me saying to you "I hate apples, and the reason why I still eat them is because they are disgusting."

So, you know I hate apples, but the reasoning that I use for still eating them when I hate them is just totally illogical.

Hating apples and finding them disgusting is fine by itself. But, why in my actions do I eat them?
The comparison cannot be made because we're talking about killing here.


Remember what Suzaku said during the Narita fight: "I am a soldier to prevent more killing, even if I hate killing."

That's the dilemna that a soldier can have when he is on the battlefield. Although he himself may not want to kill, that act of "restraint" can lead to more deathes by allowing "terrorists" to do damage. Examples such as the stealing of the "poison gas" capsle shows what Suzaku is against.

Suzaku, unlike your regular civilian who mostly wouldn't have to kill in the first place, is a soldier. His "twisted" logic is the things that any soldiers might face while doing their duty.
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Old 2008-05-13, 22:21   Link #1090
orangejuicetang
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Well, both Lelouch AND Suzaku ARE good persons at heart
Agreed. They both have good intentions at heart, and I'm sure they wouldn't delibrately go out of thier way to make someone else's life miserable. The problem is that the actions they do for these intentions often have consequences that make others miserable, whether intentional or not. And for him hating to kill but killing anyway, I thought that it was because that if he didn't kill those specefic people, those specfic people will eventually end up killing more people. So it's kind of like the kill few to save many mentaility.
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Old 2008-05-13, 22:22   Link #1091
thedonkiluminati
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I hate suzaku because he joined the people who took over his country, and slaughtered many of his people both soldier and civilian. That and he killed the leader of his country during the war, putting Japan in the position it's in right now.
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Old 2008-05-13, 22:25   Link #1092
Kang Seung Jae
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedonkiluminati View Post
I hate suzaku because he joined the people who took over his country, and slaughtered many of his people both soldier and civilian.
That could be better than the alternative of complete destruction of everything.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thedonkiluminati View Post
That and he killed the leader of his country during the war, putting Japan in the position it's in right now.
Perhaps Japan is in a better situation now because it surrendered so quickly.



Such simple thinking will not get anywhere when you consider the geopolitical situation.
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Old 2008-05-13, 22:28   Link #1093
thedonkiluminati
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae View Post
That could be better than the alternative of complete destruction of everything.




Perhaps Japan is in a better situation now because it surrendered so quickly.



Such simple thinking will not get anywhere when you consider the geopolitical situation.

Well, my opinion there are some fates worse than death. And you look out how the people are treated now, have to bow down to britannians and live in fear, i would choose death. But that's just me.
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Old 2008-05-13, 22:31   Link #1094
orangejuicetang
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I think the word slaughtered is a little too harsh. Maybe he's killed some in the line of work, but it's not like he wakes up everyday and thinks "oh boy, I wonder how many Japenese I get to kill today." And like it has been said, most of the people that Suzuku has killed are terrorists or soliders who were trying to kill him at the moment. I don't recall Suzuku specifically killing any civilians. In fact, he gets shot in the very first episode for not shooting LeLouch, since he feels that Lelouch was an innocent civilian who did nothing wrong. And I think it's been stated in the series that if he didn't kill his father, Japan would be in a much worse situation than it is right now, as it would simply be a battleground for all three superpowers, which would have killed much more Japenese and left it much more desolate and barren.
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Old 2008-05-13, 22:32   Link #1095
thedonkiluminati
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orangejuicetang View Post
I think the word slaughtered is a little too harsh. Maybe he's killed some in the line of work, but it's not like he wakes up everyday and thinks "oh boy, I wonder how many Japenese I get to kill today." And like it has been said, most of the people that Suzuku has killed are terrorists or soliders who were trying to kill him at the moment. I don't recall Suzuku specifically killing any civilians. In fact, he gets shot in the very first episode for not shooting LeLouch, since he feels that Lelouch was an innocent civilian who did nothing wrong. And I think it's been stated in the series that if he didn't kill his father, Japan would be in a much worse situation than it is right now, as it would simply be a battleground for all three superpowers, which would have killed much more Japenese and left it much more desolate and barren.
I was saying he joined the the enemy which slaughtered soldiers and civilians.
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Old 2008-05-13, 22:33   Link #1096
DarkLordOfkichiku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orangejuicetang View Post
Agreed. They both have good intentions at heart, and I'm sure they wouldn't delibrately go out of thier way to make someone else's life miserable. The problem is that the actions they do for these intentions often have consequences that make others miserable, whether intentional or not.
Well, that's basically it; they don't want to make anyone's life miserable as such (well, expect for perhaps their enemies ) and they both want to make the world a better place in their own way. The thing is of course that both of their ways means more suffering to people in general before they can be reached...
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Old 2008-05-13, 22:34   Link #1097
Lowell1025
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae View Post
That could be better than the alternative of complete destruction of everything.




Perhaps Japan is in a better situation now because it surrendered so quickly.



Such simple thinking will not get anywhere when you consider the geopolitical situation.
well we have to ask now,
such "simple" thinking is what many would also think. Obviously, they didnt take many factors into account when they thought this way. But should they be held accountable for thinking this way? I mean, most of these people are just citizens, their livelihood and concerns are not as large and as complicated as those politicians. From their perspective its a simple fact as to not betray your friends, not to destroy a part of how you live. Whats wrong in that?


Maybe Something is wrong if a person who's always lived like that are suddenly thrusted into that kind of decision making...........It's like, a farmer who lived in a small village where everyone is friendly all his life, the only way to live he knows is tend to the fields. One day suddenly an Army Major comes in takes him away and 1 day later he's got a gun in his hand and hes in situation to either shoot another guy or be shot. What is the force that made him lose his once timid life? Does anyone have the right to do that to him? Instead of blaming him that his comrades are dying because he cant shoot, perhaps we should also think on blaming the force that placed him in that situation?
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Old 2008-05-13, 22:37   Link #1098
Kang Seung Jae
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowell1025 View Post
well we have to ask now,
such "simple" thinking is what many would also think. Obviously, they didnt take many factors into account when they thought this way. But should they be held accountable for thinking this way? I mean, most of these people are just citizens, their livelihood and concerns are not as large and as complicated as those politicians. From their perspective its a simple fact as to not betray your friends, not to destroy a part of how you live. Whats wrong in that?
Something is wrong if a person who's always lived like that are suddenly thrusted into that kind of decision making...........
I was talking about the viewers who are saying "I HATE SUZAKU SINCE HE IS A BLOODY BACKSTABBING TRAITOR WHO BETRAYS HIS OWN PEOPLE!!!", not the people in the anime.


Unlike the characters, we are allowed to have hindersight and judge based on what we know.
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Old 2008-05-13, 22:39   Link #1099
tenken627
what Yagi said
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae View Post
The comparison cannot be made because we're talking about killing here.


Remember what Suzaku said during the Narita fight: "I am a soldier to prevent more killing, even if I hate killing."

That's the dilemna that a soldier can have when he is on the battlefield. Although he himself may not want to kill, that act of "restraint" can lead to more deathes by allowing "terrorists" to do damage. Examples such as the stealing of the "poison gas" capsle shows what Suzaku is against.

Suzaku, unlike your regular civilian who mostly wouldn't have to kill in the first place, is a soldier. His "twisted" logic is the things that any soldiers might face while doing their duty.
That's still not what I'm saying. Using your "killing" reference, it's like this:

Suzaku hates the killing of his own people. So in order to stop the killing of his own people, he is willing to kill more of his own people.

Or

Suzaku hates killing of his own people by the Britannians. So, in order to stop the killing of his own people by the Britannians, he kills his dad, who is one of his own people.

Or

Suzaku hates the usage of innocent people, so in order to stop the usage of innocent people, he uses innocent people in order to protect them from being used.
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Old 2008-05-13, 22:40   Link #1100
SoldierOfDarkness
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Something just occurred to me.

Suzaku's goal is to govern Area 11....yet Nunnally is the one taking over and in no way in hell is he going to backstab her.

For the sake of the argument, let's guarantee that Nunnally's position is to stay if she proves herself to be a capable ruler (As Vallen pointed out, the Emperor is pretty apethetic so I doubt he'll go to the lengths of assassinating her later).

So is there any point to Suzaku becoming the Knight of One to govern Area 11? If Nunnally does a good job and stays then there's little point.

THough the thing that baffles me is how Nunnally/Suzaku argue about changing the world and they are using Japan to do it. Those poor people

Quote:
Suzaku hates killing of his own people by the Britannians. So, in order to stop the killing of his own people by the Britannians, he kills his dad, who is one of his own people.
Pretty sure it's Suzaku hates people dying. period.

He's never shown any joy in killing his own kind either.

When he was participating in the JLF operation he was casting doubt on himself to even fire on the JLF soldiers but it wasn't because they were japanese, it was because it was literally a massacre. Since we say Lelouch is a good person because he hesitates or admits its evil to murder people, we should give Suzaku some benefit on his side.
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