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View Poll Results: Macross Frontier - Episode 07 Rating
Perfect 10 123 72.78%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 25 14.79%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 16 9.47%
7 out of 10 : Good 2 1.18%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 1.18%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.59%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 169. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-05-18, 03:06   Link #221
SymphonicRain
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I think SMS is considered a part of the military, not apart.

You can recall that Alto is given an option of joining the military or quarantined due to witnessing the alien first hand. It seems that by just joining SMS, its considered as military at least in Cathy's eyes.

So SMS must at least have some government sponsorship and influence. In addition it must also have a third party sponsorship that we do not know who is it yet that grants a mercenary group access to incredible resources like YF-25 planes that is supposedly to be still under testing, Reaction weapons, a Koenig Monster and a powerful Macross ship that despite being only a 1/4 size of a macross class, outclassed the two capital ships in this episode.

That's hell of a funding and I doubt a normal mercenary group could even access such resources.
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Old 2008-05-18, 03:27   Link #222
Haesslich
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You know, I could bring in the whole 'in a real military, when you trash a plane - whether it's pilot error or equipment failure, they hold a court martial' line... but since this is anime, I won't. Except that I do expect Ozma to chew him out again, just as he got chewed out in Episode 4 for 'wrecking valuable equipment'. Again.

Even if there's a government footing a bill, always losing your plane usually means losing your piloting job.
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Old 2008-05-18, 03:38   Link #223
ReddyRedWolf
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Well SMS seems to be owned by this mysterious Mr. Viller, whom both President Glass and Leon deffer to.

We know the was two previous contacts with the Vajra.

11 years ago with 117th Research fleet wiped out and 19 years before.

I'd venture to guess that Viller was there during first contact with the Vajra and has been readdying for a upcoming conflict.

Thus he formed SMS.
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Old 2008-05-18, 04:42   Link #224
Onizuka-GTO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SymphonicRain View Post
I think SMS is considered a part of the military, not apart.

You can recall that Alto is given an option of joining the military or quarantined due to witnessing the alien first hand. It seems that by just joining SMS, its considered as military at least in Cathy's eyes.

So SMS must at least have some government sponsorship and influence. In addition it must also have a third party sponsorship that we do not know who is it yet that grants a mercenary group access to incredible resources like YF-25 planes that is supposedly to be still under testing, Reaction weapons, a Koenig Monster and a powerful Macross ship that despite being only a 1/4 size of a macross class, outclassed the two capital ships in this episode.

That's hell of a funding and I doubt a normal mercenary group could even access such resources.
I think your over simplying the complexity of Militray Contracting i.e. Mercenary Force


S.M.S is contracted to the Frontier Civilian Government, not the Military of Frontier.

Hence the client is Howard Glass and any situation that might involve the Military, isn't a problem of S.M.S.

In this episode, they specifically mention a clause in there contract that state to the effect that if this article is invoked, all members of S.M.S is liable to a hefty fine and lost of livelihood if they refuse a contracted assignment by their client.

Since the Expedition Force outside of the fleet is outside the description of their work, which is primary to protect the client. i.e. Civilian Government of Frontier it was a questionable order that gave S.M.S a legal foothold if they were to object to it.

One of the things about Contractors is that they are whole independent of all government ties, this is the whole point of them, they cannot be held liable. This is one of their strong points, if things go ape-shape, plausible deniability.


But this doesn't stop contractors to be sponsored by large arms corporations, who more then like have industrial agenda, i.e. push new technology to be battlefield tested or......search for new alien technology for political Anti-UN agenda.....or maybe not.

In all, i wish they cut with the political correctness.

Just call a mercenary a mercenary.

Contractors sound like a dangerous form of legal solicitor
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Old 2008-05-18, 04:58   Link #225
SymphonicRain
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I admit.

This is bloody confusing for me -_-

Though surely the military will at least be somewhat concerned that SMS or other similar contractors having far more superior firearms than their own counterpart. This scenario resulting in prospects of possible colony revolts like The Republic of Zeon.

Oh well, hopefully it'll be clarified in one of the upcoming opening episodes that explains all about SMS as it had already done so for Fold technology.
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Old 2008-05-18, 04:58   Link #226
ReddyRedWolf
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Thing is by Pres. Glass publicly annoucing the existence of the Vajra he has effectively declared war on the Vajra by sending reinforcements including SMS.

Apparently SMS Macross Quarter is part of a deal between Glass and Viller.

From what Capt. Wilbur said Viller is the owner of SMS.
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Old 2008-05-18, 07:19   Link #227
herbert
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Originally Posted by Haesslich View Post
Except that I do expect Ozma to chew him out again, just as he got chewed out in Episode 4 for 'wrecking valuable equipment'. Again.
How can Ozma blames Alto for 'wrecking valuable equipment?' Alto exchanges his VF-25 for Luca's VF-25 and life, the net income is positive here.
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Old 2008-05-18, 08:03   Link #228
encia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SymphonicRain View Post
I think SMS is considered a part of the military, not apart.

You can recall that Alto is given an option of joining the military or quarantined due to witnessing the alien first hand. It seems that by just joining SMS, its considered as military at least in Cathy's eyes.

So SMS must at least have some government sponsorship and influence. In addition it must also have a third party sponsorship that we do not know who is it yet that grants a mercenary group access to incredible resources like YF-25 planes
(EP2 15:31) At the manufacture's request, SMS has the evaluation contract.
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Old 2008-05-18, 08:18   Link #229
Wesley84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haesslich View Post
You know, I could bring in the whole 'in a real military, when you trash a plane - whether it's pilot error or equipment failure, they hold a court martial' line... but since this is anime, I won't. Except that I do expect Ozma to chew him out again, just as he got chewed out in Episode 4 for 'wrecking valuable equipment'. Again.

Even if there's a government footing a bill, always losing your plane usually means losing your piloting job.
The SMS probably has more in common with a NASCAR Franchise, then a government-sponsored military.

And I guess they were fully prepared to lose Luca for whatever knowledge they hoped to gain. If I'm to understand it, sensors work both ways. He might have been checking out the ship, but in doing so he gave them perfect targeting data. And he went in without any cover. I haven't seen a move that stupid since Slippy took on the Base-Y boss in Starfox 64.
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Old 2008-05-18, 09:21   Link #230
CaptGloval
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Originally Posted by Wesley84 View Post
He might have been checking out the ship, but in doing so he gave them perfect targeting data. And he went in without any cover. I haven't seen a move that stupid since Slippy took on the Base-Y boss in Starfox 64.
I think Luca relied too much on his three Ghost drones. Poor boy must've grown fond of them to even name 'em
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Old 2008-05-18, 09:42   Link #231
Onizuka-GTO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SymphonicRain View Post
Though surely the military will at least be somewhat concerned that SMS or other similar contractors having far more superior firearms than their own counterpart.

surely? try "obviously"

It's actually one of the oldest known bias since the concept of paid mercenaries were recorded.

Those who are honoured bound, distrust those who's honour can be bought.

These days it's more or less along the lines of, "They get paid more, don't have to follow orders, but are not accountable to the military Code of Justice which government oath military are"

Which is actually a myth, as contractors are indeed held to the military code of conduct, but also to civilian armed regulation as well.

And even if they do have a far greater degree of freedom in their operations, they are restricted to the client and type of work.

As for the pay...well yeah....that is true.



Either way, there will certainly be conflict between government military personal and contractors, but they know they cannot exist without each other.

They fact that the fleets are for all purposes autonomous mobile states, i doubt anything like a "Gundam" rebellion would happen. There is no "Homeworld Fraction" versus "New Colony" mentality.

Earth is just one of the "nations" of the NUNS, while it holds more of a sentimental value then more then anything political.

The thing with humanity in the Macross universe is that they cannot afford to be centralized in one place, lease the genocide of Space War I happens again.

Hence political power is decentralized as well as everything else.

Think of the human race as a genetic internet, knock off one branch, and the civilization will continue. Ultimate survival is the unifying goal in this hostile universe full of Zentradi, Aliens, and protoculture knows what.
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Old 2008-05-18, 09:49   Link #232
Westlo
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Originally Posted by SymphonicRain View Post
I admit.

This is bloody confusing for me -_-

Though surely the military will at least be somewhat concerned that SMS or other similar contractors having far more superior firearms than their own counterpart. This scenario resulting in prospects of possible colony revolts like The Republic of Zeon.
SMS are testing the vf-25 though remember... and the Frontier fleets Battle Frontier/25 should be spectacular later in the series...
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Old 2008-05-18, 10:33   Link #233
Haesslich
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Originally Posted by herbert View Post
How can Ozma blames Alto for 'wrecking valuable equipment?' Alto exchanges his VF-25 for Luca's VF-25 and life, the net income is positive here.
Doing so once us understandable. The problem isn't that he did it here - it is that he's done it three times in a row - out of three missions he's flown (one unofficially). Even if Shinsen or whoever is sponsoring them, if he has a record of trashing planes, Ozma has to at least yell at him. This is to let him know he can't expect to spend his whole SMS career blowing up his own fighter without any consequences.

Or, to put it another way, would you like to always have to replace expensive equipment everytime a certain person did a job, when you can do the same job without blowing up your gear, and everyone else but that employee also avoids trashing stuff while on the same mission? Or would you hire someone else who can get a job done but without the constant wreckage? And, IIRC, Alto went in without orders. This makes him insubordinate as well as 'can be relied upon to wreck his own stuff' - bad combo there, especially as this isn't his first time disobeying orders (he was supposed to retreat in episode 4). With his track record, I'll be disappointed if we don't hear about him getting chewed out.

Even if they are testing the Messiah, it isn't free for the manufacturer to make... and since it isn't standard equipment the industries of scale won't apply yet (aka 'high cost per unit') - so SMS will have to answer the 'So, what happened to the plane THIS time?' questions... and Ozma will probably make Alto answer the question this time. I'd hate to have his rep right now.

Last edited by Haesslich; 2008-05-18 at 10:49.
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Old 2008-05-18, 10:40   Link #234
ReddyRedWolf
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Originally Posted by Haesslich View Post
Doing so once us understandable. The problem isn't that he did it here - it is that he's done it three times in a row. Even if Shinsen or whoever is sponsoring them, if he has a record of trashing planes, Ozma has to at least yell at him. This is to lerlt him know he can't expect to spend his whole SMS career blowing up his own fighter without any consequences. Or, to put it another way, would you like to always have to replace expensive equipment everytime a certain person did a job, when you can do the same job without blowing up your gear, and everyone else but that employee also avoids trashing stuff while getting the job done? Or would you hire someone else who can get a job done but without the constant wreckage?
So test piloting is perfect for him. Macross universe's Launchpad McQuack.

Coming out unscathed every time.
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Old 2008-05-18, 10:42   Link #235
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The fact they've been drafted probably means the UN Spacy is footing the bill for every operation and whatever losses are incured from combat.
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Old 2008-05-18, 10:54   Link #236
Haesslich
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The fact they've been drafted probably means the UN Spacy is footing the bill for every operation and whatever losses are incured from combat.
And if a contractor becomes too expensive, you replace them. Or ask them politely (read: quietly threaten to pull contract/not cover all the costs) to not wreck the gear, since you can't afford to replace your own fighters as well as those expensive VF-25 planes every time you ask them to do something. They still have to account for the costs.
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Old 2008-05-18, 11:07   Link #237
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by Haesslich View Post
And if a contractor becomes too expensive, you replace them. Or ask them politely (read: quietly threaten to pull contract/not cover all the costs) to not wreck the gear, since you can't afford to replace your own fighters as well as those expensive VF-25 planes every time you ask them to do something. They still have to account for the costs.
They aren't contracted. They've been drafted. Worse case scenario, the UN Spacy demands to have more direct oversight and control of the SMS's operations, and considering how they seem to be top-heavy with paperwork, the series would be over before they actually get it.
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Old 2008-05-18, 11:25   Link #238
ReddyRedWolf
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Both actually SMS is contracted to their client the Frontier government and in essence their employee and staff is drafted by their contracts. (Damn the fine print.)

SMS joined the NUNS fleet not because they were legally overidden but because their client asked them to.

Besides Mr. Viller owner of SMS has some sort of stake when it comes to the Vajra.
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Old 2008-05-18, 12:25   Link #239
glyph
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I think Luca relied too much on his three Ghost drones. Poor boy must've grown fond of them to even name 'em
Luca Angelioni should name his drones Giovanni, Matteo, and Marco (instead of Giovanni, Simon and Pietro), then he can call his RVF-25 + Ghosts 'Team UAV-ngelioni'.

Last edited by glyph; 2008-05-18 at 12:40.
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Old 2008-05-18, 13:42   Link #240
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no he shouldve named them Marine, Firebat, and Medic, because his micro skills are akin to that
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