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Old 2008-05-18, 23:34   Link #181
Wesley84
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Earth/Pluto in isn't really that impressive since it only takes a few hours at c. to get there. That's less or more than two hundred times depending upon how much less than a second is. At what point do you think it is polite to out right say what fraction of a second you're dealing with?
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Old 2008-05-18, 23:36   Link #182
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It's also possible that it actually DID take them a while to fold to Galaxy's position, and it just shows the concert during all this for both dramatic effect and kick-ass battle music. Perhaps this theory is too far-fetched though.
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Old 2008-05-18, 23:43   Link #183
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Originally Posted by Blue Reverie View Post
It's also possible that it actually DID take them a while to fold to Galaxy's position, and it just shows the concert during all this for both dramatic effect and kick-ass battle music. Perhaps this theory is too far-fetched though.
No, the fact Sheryl's song was actually heard through the earring walks all over that idea. Everything implies a real time correlation, until it's said otherwise.
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Old 2008-05-19, 00:15   Link #184
4Tran
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I would say there weren't other songs though. We know for a fact Ranka saw them departing. The probable time between her seeing them leave and her finding her seat is the time it took for the fleet to cross 12 light years minus whatever amount of time would have been necessary for them to prepare for the battle.

And she was right outside the music hall when she saw them depart. Even as clumsy as she tends to be, Ranka wouldn't have spent more than ten minutes finding her seat, especially since she'd already been there at least once before.
Perhaps. But the only things that we know for sure are happening at the same time are that the rescue fleet left as Sheryl started the concert, and that Sheryl's last number conicided with Alto's Valkyrie going boom. All the other events in between may or may not have happened concurrently. Besides, I prefer using a conservative figure since it gives a good lower limit

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Originally Posted by SpaceDrake View Post
This is really pretty consistent with what we've seen before - from what episode 6 showed in the intro, the fold drive seems to work like the FTL drive proposed in Event Horizon - it essentially "pinches" two bits of space-time together, and shoots the object in question through the "hole". It obviously isn't quite instantaneous, but it would be damn fast - remember that in original Macross once it actually folded the SDF-1 traveled from Earth to Pluto in under a second. There are going to be some mind-bogglingly high multipliers of c in realspace involved with folding.
There's also a question of perceived time vs. real time. The Pluto trip was short enough that I don't think it provides enough information about the speed of fold-travel. Macross Frontier provided the first example that I can recall of both the distance and a rough travel time.

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Earth/Pluto in isn't really that impressive since it only takes a few hours at c. to get there. That's less or more than two hundred times depending upon how much less than a second is. At what point do you think it is polite to out right say what fraction of a second you're dealing with?
The exact length of time was never specified.

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No, the fact Sheryl's song was actually heard through the earring walks all over that idea. Everything implies a real time correlation, until it's said otherwise.
Precisely. In order for the scene to work, both events had to be concurrent.
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Old 2008-05-19, 00:34   Link #185
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Well, thats what I get for opening my mouth without having seen the episode, oh well. My apologies.
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Old 2008-05-19, 10:46   Link #186
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I'm surprised no one pointed out that the VF-27 seems to have built-in fold capabilities.
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Old 2008-05-19, 11:00   Link #187
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That would make a pretty dangerous long range strike craft. If you can fold without using fold boosters, then that also means that you can deploy further and carry more ammo and FAST packs instead of having to choose between FAST packs and fold boosters, like when Gamlin's team when chasing after City 7.
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Old 2008-05-19, 11:00   Link #188
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I'm surprised no one pointed out that the VF-27 seems to have built-in fold capabilities.
Not really surprising to me. Fold technology is becoming far more compact, so it was really only a matter of time before a fighter was developed with built-in fold capabilities.
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Old 2008-05-19, 11:08   Link #189
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here's a question / observation. Is Michel's sniper gun pod more powerful than the liquid plasma cannon attached to Klan's suit?

From ep 7 the sniper pod is clearly able to make quick work of a red, and had as decent rate of fire.

Part of me wants to say the sniper pod shots increase in speed the further it's in flight, ie constant acceleration in a frictionless environment.
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Old 2008-05-19, 11:10   Link #190
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My impression was that Klan's shot didn't do as much damage due to being slightly off-angle since she was in a hurry to get her shot off.

As for the sniper gunpod... isn't speed pretty much constant in a frictionless environment? If the shots are travelling at Mach 3, they'll remain at mach 3, or so I understand things.

That said if Mikhail's gunpod is determined to be more powerful than Klan's cannon, it blows holes into Tak's theory of Zent weapons being better; my interpretation of that scene was that Klan was wanting to assuage her wounded pride at getting saved by Alto the noob. "Sure, the noob saved me, but he did it with a zent gun, and zent guns are just that better!"
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Old 2008-05-19, 11:10   Link #191
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How bout built in sound boosters? Spiritia drainers?

Yeah the VF-27 appears to surpass previous tech limitations of Valkyries.
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Old 2008-05-19, 11:13   Link #192
Wild Goose
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Well, it is an enemy unit. Those tend to have more haxx than the heroes.
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Old 2008-05-19, 11:20   Link #193
squaresphere
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
As for the sniper gunpod... isn't speed pretty much constant in a frictionless environment? If the shots are travelling at Mach 3, they'll remain at mach 3, or so I understand things.
You're probably right, i don't know much about space physics :P

but then that's an even better argument. If speed is constant than the sniper pod could do max damage even at point blank range.
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Old 2008-05-19, 11:33   Link #194
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Originally Posted by squaresphere View Post
You're probably right, i don't know much about space physics :P

but then that's an even better argument. If speed is constant than the sniper pod could do max damage even at point blank range.
I'll have to check with my sources, but IIRC when a round leaves the barrel it's already at max muzzle velocity, which then drops off due to friction and shit.

Of course if you're going to be shooting at point blank range it defeats the whole purpose of a sniper gunpod Muzzle velocity is also merely one aspect of how stopping power is calculated; for example a 9mm pistol round has a higer muzzle velocity than a .45ACP round fired from the Holy Pistol built by St. John Moses Browning, but the .45 does more damage due to being a larger round, having a heavier and bigger slug, and being of a Holy and Pure Union blessed by God. (Sorta an in-joke among some guys I know. The full line went, "This union of .45ACP and 1911 is a Pure and Holy one, blessed by God, for verily while the 9mm might expandeth, the .45, being blessed by God, shall never shrinketh.")

But yes, generally speaking, with ballistic weapons you'd want it to be able to do damage at all ranges, as it should. Of course depending on your ammo firing at point-blank range isn't really a good idea; first you've got to get into point blank range, absorbing god knows how much damage there, then you've got to fire, and if you're using HE ammo or API shells or DU or, god forbid, the "inhumane" HE/API Raufoss Mk 211 rounds, it's not a good idea to be at point blank range, because you could pwn yourself by your own ammo. There are recorded instances of German BF-109s and -110s getting pwnt by the bombs they dropped because they were too close to the explosion.

Besides, again, it defeats the whole purpose of a gun if you're going to use it at point blank range: the gun is for ranged combat, for staying away from the enemy. If you're going to close the distance and get up close and personal you might as well junk it for a melee weapon.
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Old 2008-05-19, 11:35   Link #195
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Originally Posted by squaresphere View Post
I'm surprised no one pointed out that the VF-27 seems to have built-in fold capabilities.
This is first seen in Macross Plus with Guld's YF-21.


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Originally Posted by squaresphere View Post
here's a question / observation. Is Michel's sniper gun pod more powerful than the liquid plasma cannon attached to Klan's suit?
Well, you have to consider that Mikhail was aiming at a more vulnerable part (the head and underbelly) and he still had to shoot more than once while Klan fired at the tougher outer shell.
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Old 2008-05-19, 11:41   Link #196
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Originally Posted by CaptGloval View Post
This is first seen in Macross Plus with Guld's YF-21.
He and Isamu mounted fold boosters on their units. That, IMO, is what's a big deal; not that a valk can fold - any valk can, so long as they mount fold boosters, we've seen it happening - but rather than this valk can do so without fold boosters.

As to whether Mikhail's greater rate of fire is advantageous over the possible greater individual power of Klan's cannon, it's worth noting that when the US military had the option between single-shot/hi-power and rapid-fire/low-power, they went with option 2, choosing the M16 over the M14.
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Old 2008-05-19, 11:44   Link #197
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Yeah I'm positive Guld used a fold booster.

Yep

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Old 2008-05-19, 12:14   Link #198
squaresphere
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
As to whether Mikhail's greater rate of fire is advantageous over the possible greater individual power of Klan's cannon, it's worth noting that when the US military had the option between single-shot/hi-power and rapid-fire/low-power, they went with option 2, choosing the M16 over the M14.
Not really talking about replacing the gattling gun pods on the VFs but on the Queadluun-Rea as opposed to the liquid plasma cannons. Better penetration at close range and over comes the suit's weakness from lack of long range weaponry.
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Old 2008-05-19, 18:24   Link #199
Haesslich
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Originally Posted by SpaceDrake View Post
This is really pretty consistent with what we've seen before - from what episode 6 showed in the intro, the fold drive seems to work like the FTL drive proposed in Event Horizon - it essentially "pinches" two bits of space-time together, and shoots the object in question through the "hole". It obviously isn't quite instantaneous, but it would be damn fast - remember that in original Macross once it actually folded the SDF-1 traveled from Earth to Pluto in under a second. There are going to be some mind-bogglingly high multipliers of c in realspace involved with folding.
Under a second in elapsed time on the Macross - in real-time, it was a few days, IIRC. The fold to the planetoid took a few weeks real-time, even though in elapsed time it was like a day or two. The fold-distortion they discuss is based on real-universe, objective time... which means that while it's a few seconds for the crew of the Macross Quarter or those VF-171 pilots, it can be hours or days for those who aren't there. This means that they had time for two concerts if there were two of them, and even if spacefold drives are faster than they used to be (per Macross 7), this doesn't mean that events on the Macross Frontier have to unfold at the same time as they did with the battle SMS had by the Galaxy fleet's remains.
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Old 2008-05-19, 18:27   Link #200
Wild Goose
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Originally Posted by squaresphere View Post
Not really talking about replacing the gattling gun pods on the VFs but on the Queadluun-Rea as opposed to the liquid plasma cannons. Better penetration at close range and over comes the suit's weakness from lack of long range weaponry.
Hmmm.... I dunno. It hasn't been conclusively shown as to which is more powerful. If Klan's using energy cannons, however, I'd think that she might have more power compare to Mikhail; on the other hand Mikhail has better accuraccy and rate of fire.

But a sniper gunpod on the Queadluun-Rea.... heresy! Quads are for close range missile spam!
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