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Old 2008-05-17, 15:06   Link #241
nanafan
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ohhh those screenies want me to see the next episode even more thanks for the screenies..yay for more actionhttp://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGybpmbQKmU
pv's out for the opening of library war, really good song, love hitomi takahashi
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Last edited by nanafan; 2008-05-17 at 16:52. Reason: pv
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Old 2008-05-17, 22:46   Link #242
TinyRedLeaf
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Nice! I especially love the parts where Hitomi's voice catches in her throat.

Atashi no Machi, Ashita no Machi would be the first song by Hitomi Takahashi that I've actually enjoyed. Her earlier songs, such as the first OP for Blood+ sounded too ear-jarringly J-Pop for my liking.

While going through the lyrics, I've noticed that both the OP and ED for Toshokan Sensou are incredibly well suited for the show, especially from Kasahara's perspective. For example, these lines from Hitomi's song: "I want to be a person / Who says 'pretty' to pretty things / I want my heart to beat faster now" (Euthanasia's translation) describe Kasahara's naive but cute desire to pursue her passion very well. And then, there is the chorus line from Base Ball Bear's Changes: "Ch-ch-changes, it's changing / So long to my old self", which describes how Kasahara is growing throughout the show.

Hmm, so I'm a bit torn when it comes to deciding which are my favourite OP/ED for this season. Kaiba scores well for dreamily surreal music, while Toshokan Sensou's OP/ED are addictively catchy. When it comes to BGM/OST, on the other hand, I think Kure-nai is easily my favourite for now, thanks to its melancholic jazz / shamisen tunes. All in all, it's been a great season so far, aurally speaking.
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Old 2008-05-17, 23:54   Link #243
nanafan
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i really like this song, i loved her earlier stuff but this song is even better. the ed is also good too.
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Old 2008-05-18, 16:30   Link #244
LiberLibri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Guess what I found?

Statement on Intellectual Freedom in Libraries
- Japanese Library Association (1979)RAAAAWWWRRR!!!!!
The legal basis on which the librarians take arms is the Statute concerning Libraries as amended by the Statement. In reality, the latter is not a law enacted by the Parliament but JLA's self-binding document.

The counterpart, MIB has also the footing legislation, the model of which is taken from wartime censorship directives.

The interesting point in this series is that each party takes (or tries to take) only "legitimate" measures in performing its tasks. Sometimes some kids in either side commit ultra vires actions, but generally they function as lawful public agents.

I am interested in the background of Media Improvement Committee/Brigade. The original novel is described only from the perspective of librarians.
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Old 2008-05-18, 22:54   Link #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiberLibri
The legal basis on which the librarians take arms is the Statute concerning Libraries as amended by the Statement. In reality, the latter is not a law enacted by the Parliament but JLA's self-binding document.
Lol. Care to either translate or point us to an online English version? Not all of us can read Japanese you know.

I feel the point is not so much whether the statement has legal binding status, but rather that it even exists in the first place. The idea that librarians and like-minded people have formally stated their values and ideals in an official document is what makes it so cool.

To paraphrase Charlton Heston: "You can pry this book from my cold, dead hands!!!" RAWWWRRR!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiberLibri
The interesting point in this series is that each party takes (or tries to take) only "legitimate" measures in performing its tasks. Sometimes some kids in either side commit ultra vires actions, but generally they function as lawful public agents.
Yup. Ultimately, victory would be decided by winning the hearts and minds of the public, and in order to do this, both sides must appear to take legitimate actions. More importantly, they must avoid inflicting collateral damage, or their popularity and public image would plummet.

As for the more radical elements in the MIB, I felt this was quite realistic. If you observe the history of similar civil wars in modern times, most major factions tend to be rife with splinter groups that may or may not toe the official line. In Palestine, we have Hamas breaking away from the Palestinian Liberation Organisation. I'm not familiar with Northern Ireland, but I believe for a long time, much of the violence there (and the rest of the UK) was propagated by radical elements within Seinn Fein. (Back then, there were observers who speculated that violence had gone on for so long that an entire generation of Irish youth had become desensitised to it, and see no option other than using violence to achieve their objectives. Ironically, some of their objectives might not even have included Irish independence.)

Within Japan during the Meiji Era and during the immediate pre-war years, there were constant factional struggles between junior officers (who tended to be more nationalistic and reactionary) and the senior officers in the military junta that eventually seized control of government.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiberLibri
I am interested in the background of Media Improvement Committee/Brigade. The original novel is described only from the perspective of librarians.
Which volume did you read? I would hope that the political background in Toshokan Sensou is elaborated in the later volumes. More recently, I've been speculating on the true identity of Kasahara's Prince Charming, and I suspect she'd be disillusioned if she ever meets him in person.

Last edited by TinyRedLeaf; 2008-05-19 at 01:11. Reason: arrgh, typo errors
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Old 2008-05-19, 04:23   Link #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
I feel the point is not so much whether the statement has legal binding status, but rather that it even exists in the first place. The idea that librarians and like-minded people have formally stated their values and ideals in an official document is what makes it so cool.
Agreed. I meant that the way Ms. Arikawa connected her fictious world with the reality is quite sophisticated. I had already known the Statement when I first read the novel, so I could not stop smiling.

Japanese librarians regret the fact that once they assisted the military government by limiting information to the public. That's why JLA oathed its values in the written text, taking the model from ALA Bill of Rights. However, in these days, the value often conflicts with other public interests such as privacy, hate speech or dangerous cults. Toshokan Sensou is a good stimulus for the discussion on what libraries shoud be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Which volume did you read? I would hope that the political background in Toshokan Sensou is elaborated in the later volumes. More recently, I've been speculating on the true identity of Kasahara's Prince Charming, and I suspect she'd be disillusioned if she ever meets him in person.
I've read the four main volumes. (Toshokan Sensou / Nairan / Kiki / Kakumei)
Volume 4 focuses on the political background of the librarians' side, but Arikawa does not touch the opposite side so much. As for the prince charming I won't tell anything to keep your fun.
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Old 2008-05-19, 16:34   Link #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post

Yup. Ultimately, victory would be decided by winning the hearts and minds of the public, and in order to do this, both sides must appear to take legitimate actions. More importantly, they must avoid inflicting collateral damage, or their popularity and public image would plummet.

As for the more radical elements in the MIB, I felt this was quite realistic. If you observe the history of similar civil wars in modern times, most major factions tend to be rife with splinter groups that may or may not toe the official line. In Palestine, we have Hamas breaking away from the Palestinian Liberation Organisation. I'm not familiar with Northern Ireland, but I believe for a long time, much of the violence there (and the rest of the UK) was propagated by radical elements within Seinn Fein. (Back then, there were observers who speculated that violence had gone on for so long that an entire generation of Irish youth had become desensitised to it, and see no option other than using violence to achieve their objectives. Ironically, some of their objectives might not even have included Irish independence.)
Just to be a bit correct, HAMAS was for a short time an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood.

As for the history of Northern Ireland, I agree with you. There are paramilitaries in both Protestant and Roman Catholic factions that do go for violence instead of being with the rest of the mainstream forces. Examples include the Ulster Volunteer Force and the Loyalist Volunteer Force for pro-Britain forces while pro-unification ones include the Real IRA and the Irish People's Liberation Organization.
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Old 2008-05-19, 16:45   Link #248
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subs are out:

1)It seems that the book of prophecy is fahrenheit 451.It was indeed adapted by the famous french director François Truffaut.The thing that I don't understand is why did they change the title?

2)Komaki said at one point:"If we were observed by people whose world has no MEA or library freedom act, we would have looked absolutely ridiculous." Indeed, I really like this show.


There's one thing that disappoint me, so far we have seen how brutal the MIB can be.But I would be suprised if there's no fanatics on the other side willing to kill.I wonder if we will see them.
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Old 2008-05-19, 19:19   Link #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeusIrae View Post
There's one thing that disappoint me, so far we have seen how brutal the MIB can be.But I would be suprised if there's no fanatics on the other side willing to kill.I wonder if we will see them.
We might be arguing about the snipers on the MIB side in ep3, they were (trying) to shoot to kill.

TiniRedLeaf you could had used Black September for your example , they were a branch from the OLP
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Old 2008-05-19, 19:37   Link #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeusIrae View Post
1)It seems that the book of prophecy is fahrenheit 451.It was indeed adapted by the famous french director François Truffaut.The thing that I don't understand is why did they change the title?
Japan doesn't use the Fahrenheit scale, and 505K is equivalent to 451º F. I assume that the title shown is what Fahrenheit 451 is known as in Japan (just like the Count of Monte Cristo is known as Gankutsuou there).
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Old 2008-05-19, 19:58   Link #251
Slice of Life
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No! Both books have the same (i.e. more or less literally translated) title in Japanese.

"505K" was either a joke or ... well ... censorship.
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Old 2008-05-20, 07:17   Link #252
TinyRedLeaf
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*chuckle* What's with the sudden flurry of responses?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life
No! Both books have the same (i.e. more or less literally translated) title in Japanese.
Nah, I think 4Tran got it partially right. The anime is making a direct reference to Farenheit 451 (did the author make the same reference in her novel? that would be cool, because the parallels are clearly there), but probably due to copyright/licensing reasons, they cannot name the book by its actual title. Same as how "Casio" became "Ocasi" in Byousoku 5 Centimetre, for example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yu Ominae
Just to be a bit correct, HAMAS was for a short time an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru
TiniRedLeaf you could had used Black September for your example , they were a branch from the OLP
Lol. I was dropping names without doing any fact checking. My bad. It's been well over 15 years since I've covered this part of current history at junior college. Some names stuck, but most of the details about the Arab-Israeli conflict have become a grey blur. In any case, yes, history is replete with examples of broad revolutionary movements that splintered into smaller groups that each pursued its own agenda, starting as far back as the French Revolution.

Which brings me to my next pertinent point:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeusIrae
There's one thing that disappoint me, so far we have seen how brutal the MIB can be.But I would be suprised if there's no fanatics on the other side willing to kill.I wonder if we will see them.
Indeed. I wouldn't be surprised if the Library Corps has its own hidden, ultra-revolutionary factions. In fact, I expect it would, hence my speculation about Kasahara's potential disllusionment in the future. The very titles of the later volumes suggest how the plot may grow darker in the future.

For example, Toshokan Nairan (図書館内乱) [Vol 2] translates literally into Library In-fighting, which worsens into a Library Crisis (Toshokan Kiki / 図書館危機) [Vol 3] and finally into a full-blown Library Revolution (Toshokan Kakume / 図書館革命) [Vol 4].

Last edited by TinyRedLeaf; 2008-05-23 at 09:11. Reason: Added the kanji titles
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Old 2008-05-20, 08:18   Link #253
Slice of Life
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Nah, I think 4Tran got it partially right.
No, you got both of us wrong, I think, or you're mixing us up. According to Wikipedia

1. "Fahrenheit 451" is known under the same title in Japan, as "華氏451度" to be exact, i.e. "Fahrenheit 451 degrees", and not under "505K" as 4Tran guessed. (So not ファーレンハイト or something to that effect. Interesting. I didn't know that there is a Kanji combination for Fahrenheit until I looked it up.)

2. "Le Comte de Monte-Cristo" is "モンテ・クリスト伯" ("Monte Kuristo Haku") in Japanese, but I correct myself as 4Tran seems to to be indeed partially right here insofar as "Gankutsuou" seems to be an older title for the novel as much as I gather and not solely Gonzo's invention as I would have thought.

So bottom line, to repeat myself
Quote:
Both books have the same (i.e. more or less literally translated) title in Japanese.
So the book title "505K" in the anime is either a little joke or (self-)censorship out of fear over being sued, as you say. I really hope for the former because when even mentioning titles of famous books in other works has become illegal we're living in a sad world. It's doubleplus-sad, considering what this anime is about.

(Add 1000 lines of rambling about 'intellectual' property rights here.)
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Last edited by Slice of Life; 2008-05-20 at 08:33.
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Old 2008-05-20, 15:14   Link #254
nanafan
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another good episode! i love this show
Spoiler for episode 6:
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Old 2008-05-20, 15:20   Link #255
TinyRedLeaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life
So the book title "505K" in the anime is either a little joke or (self-)censorship out of fear over being sued, as you say. I really hope for the former because when even mentioning titles of famous books in other works has become illegal we're living in a sad world. It's doubleplus-sad, considering what this anime is about.
Hmm, maybe I.G deliberately wants to create that irony?

But thinking over it, I think it was probably an easter egg after all, as you've suggested. Plenty of people have already taken note of Toshokan Sensou's similarity to Farenheit 451, so even if that book hadn't been directly referenced in the novel, I can imagine the guys at I.G adding clever little details like that to the anime.

To extend ZeusIrae's point a bit further, I liked how Komaki observed, "Fairy tales bring out the ironies often neglected by adults using simple and easily understood words." (Ocha! translation.) Komaki could have said the same about Toshokan Sensou - it's also a "fairy tale" that communicates a complex idea through simple words and shoujo romance.

One last thing - I think Shibasaki was watching Saw II. Heeheehee, who would have thought she is a fan of horror films? Man, the more we know about Shibasaki, the more I wish I could date her in real life.

Last edited by TinyRedLeaf; 2008-05-20 at 15:45. Reason: doh, didn't notice I had repeated ZeusIrae's point
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Old 2008-05-20, 15:23   Link #256
nanafan
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yeah shibasaki was watching saw 2 lol, she is one interesting chick.
komaki also mentions the movie that was based on the book. i don't know if library war is completely similar but some of the ideas are the same like books being a threat, etc
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Old 2008-05-20, 15:32   Link #257
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Interestingly, IMDB lists another Farenheit 451 movie in production. A Hollywood remake of the French original, I suppose. What year does Seika 31 correspond to? If Komaki's remark is reliable, the year would then be 2026, sixty years after the French movie was released.
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Old 2008-05-20, 16:03   Link #258
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Looks like I wasnt the only one who noticed the saw 2 reference
Anyways, when Doujou charged the guy, i had a good laugh, and then to follow up, Genda said " don't let Doujou take all the fun" ahaha
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Old 2008-05-20, 18:00   Link #259
nanafan
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yeah i shouldn't be shocked that genda let the others get in on it too. lol orly? that's wierd, a remake of the french one...hmm interesting
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Old 2008-05-20, 20:13   Link #260
ganbaru
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Anyways, when Doujou charged the guy, i had a good laugh, and then to follow up, Genda said " don't let Doujou take all the fun" ahaha
When all the MIB and the librarian were figning in front of all the people in the bus, I was thinking about all the bad publicity than would be coming after that for both side.
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