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Old 2008-05-20, 21:42   Link #1221
wingdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
Actually, at his basest personality, Lelouch is pretty nice person in general. A little too nitpicky about things and with an ego, but nothing too big.

I think Suzaku may have thought he was helping Lelouch by getting rid of Zero.
Lulu's personality (Atleast as a teenager as shown in the first few eps of R1) was a facade of sorts...Fake smiles, sometimes tolerating his friends more than loving being around them because deep-down was a maddening obsession to get revenge...His true colors came out in ep1 when he was confronted with possible death and wanted everyone in that Britannia squad to die...Now imagine Suzaku in the same scenario as Lulu in ep1, you gotta be a certain kinda mofo to accept geass and casually kill or torment people like Lulu does...Lulu still isn't very nice IMO, but he does have a deliciously amusing way of dealing with people...Don't get me wrong he still cares about his buds, but the feelings he shows is sometimes after the fact, after he geass'd them or hid something from them and he feels bad about it...
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Old 2008-05-20, 21:47   Link #1222
Dann of Thursday
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That's being a bit harsh and doesn't really reflect what Taniguchi has said about the character. He did enjoy being around his friends and at his heart is a kind person. The first episode didn't reflect anything that wasn't already there. He dislikes Britannia and what it stands for, that's all.
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Old 2008-05-20, 21:58   Link #1223
wingdarkness
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^Again I never said he doesn't care for his friends, but he seemed very aloof to me in many interactions with them in r1...ONLY NOW (as of ep R2-7) is he showing a deep caring for them that isn't some dark-fuel he uses to power Zero...I too think he's prolly more good-hearted than I'm giving him credit, but he has shown some moral indifference that doesn't support the claim of his kind-heartedness...I mean Light was somewhat kind too before he got the note...Lulu let his caring for his friends and sis manifest into a monster...Again, only now is he really showing non-impulsive reflections on what they mean to him...
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Old 2008-05-20, 22:04   Link #1224
Dann of Thursday
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Well, for the record, Lelouch is nothing like Light in truth.

I'd agree that he is being a bit more honest about things like this now and isn't being so crazy anymore after the little stint in 7.

Enough about Lelouch though, this is the Suzaku thread.
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Old 2008-05-20, 22:17   Link #1225
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Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday View Post
Well, for the record, Lelouch is nothing like Light in truth.

That depends on how you choose to attack that analysis, which I think I 'm pretty good at doing, but I will digress...I'm just saying power corrupts...Nice guys on the outside show their true colors when corrupted with power...I now suspect Suzaku will go down a darker path now to balance the scales a bit while Lulu moves back to the center from his last episode deep-end...
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Old 2008-05-20, 22:55   Link #1226
Dann of Thursday
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Well, this season they plan on making Lelouch more likable and perhaps more of a hero than he seemed before. I don't know about Suzaku though. He could go either way depending on things. I haven't been getting any really hateful vibes off him, though that may sound strange.
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Old 2008-05-20, 23:04   Link #1227
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That's because there isn't. Suzaku is being very professional about the whole thing. The idea that he has uncontrolable hatred at Lelouch for killing Euphie and wouldn't be able to sit in the same room as him without trying to stab him although expected, didn't happen. Suzaku's yet to mention anger about Euphie at all this season. Same with Lelouch. He's not really as pissed about his capture as he could have been. (Possibly because he knows he hurt Suzaku much more than Suzaku hurt him)
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Old 2008-05-20, 23:08   Link #1228
Dann of Thursday
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He really has avoided the subject of Euphemia entirely except for those two scenes in 5. I think Lelouch is more pissed at his father than at Suzaku.
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Old 2008-05-20, 23:28   Link #1229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Lulu's personality (Atleast as a teenager as shown in the first few eps of R1) was a facade of sorts...Fake smiles, sometimes tolerating his friends more than loving being around them because deep-down was a maddening obsession to get revenge...
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^Again I never said he doesn't care for his friends, but he seemed very aloof to me in many interactions with them in r1...
Well, you can't really blame him, his whole life up till he got the geass was a facade. He is a britanian prince masquerading as a student, living the fake life of a student because he had no choice.

Quote:
His true colors came out in ep1 when he was confronted with possible death and wanted everyone in that Britannia squad to die...Now imagine Suzaku in the same scenario as Lulu in ep1, you gotta be a certain kinda mofo to accept geass and casually kill or torment people like Lulu does...Lulu still isn't very nice IMO, but he does have a deliciously amusing way of dealing with people...Don't get me wrong he still cares about his buds, but the feelings he shows is sometimes after the fact, after he geass'd them or hid something from them and he feels bad about it...
I think that might have been involuntary, based on his rather stunned expression when the soldiers just drop dead in front of him.
After all he just got the geass, it probably auto activated bring to life his thoughts at that time - after see the soldiers commit genicide at random & the situation he was in, he wishing they would shoot themselves isn't out of the ordinary.

Although through out the 1st season, he might have taken the geass a little too lightly, as pointed out by C.C, hence him geassing people when he feels it's convenient.

Quote:
I too think he's prolly more good-hearted than I'm giving him credit, but he has shown some moral indifference that doesn't support the claim of his kind-heartedness...I mean Light was somewhat kind too before he got the note...Lulu let his caring for his friends and sis manifest into a monster...Again, only now is he really showing non-impulsive reflections on what they mean to him...
It's safe to say, he definitely has a sense of right and wrong.

But for the sake of his sister and to find the truth behind his mother assassination. He made the decision to become the devil himself, and to in his words "walk the road of destruction".
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Old 2008-05-20, 23:55   Link #1230
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He is not becoming more evil, but emo instead

p.s. i wonder how emo can he get went nanaully dies
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Old 2008-05-21, 17:21   Link #1231
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Well, you can't really blame him, his whole life up till he got the geass was a facade. He is a britanian prince masquerading as a student, living the fake life of a student because he had no choice.
I'm not placing any blame or taking any away, I was just trying to solidify my position on how Lulu acted toward his friends in R1...It wasn't this loving, kind-heartedness Dann of Thurs was talking about IMO, not that that didn't exist under the surface...It was alot of disjointed aloofness, and quite honestly it was alot of tolerant-acting (Something he has shown in R2 aswell)...I mean in his mind he used to have so much more important things to do (In-terms of his revenge, before and after Geass), so he would put on his "friend-face" just to facilitate whatever interaction he had to do with them (Just like in R2-5)...

Clearly the staff felt like ep 7 was the perfect chance to take him out of the anti-villain mode and turn him into an anti-hero...I expect Suzaku to have a similiar effect just like Lulu, only it will be visa versa...
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Old 2008-05-21, 21:29   Link #1232
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He is not becoming more evil, but emo instead

p.s. i wonder how emo can he get went nanaully dies
Emo to the point where my characters from my Code Geass fanfiction take advantage and kill him.

Anyways, when did Suzaku learn to command a ship/forces?
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Old 2008-05-21, 21:37   Link #1233
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Originally Posted by blitz1/2 View Post
Emo to the point where my characters from my Code Geass fanfiction take advantage and kill him.

Anyways, when did Suzaku learn to command a ship/forces?
The same way Roman generals does; the army itself is so well trained, armed, and obeident that they can generally take care of themselves unless the commander is mentally insane.
(Or if they walk into a trap, which happens for Romans once in a while too.)
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Old 2008-05-21, 23:13   Link #1234
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-After watching all the episodes currently available within the last 2 days (hoorah for lack of sleep) I got to say that I am not impressed with Suzaku at the moment. On the one hand he is certainly in love with an admirable idea but at the same time his methods are not at all compatible with that idea. He claimed recently that he wants to become a "Knight of 1" so that he can gain control of Area 11 and therefore, in his opinion, freedom for the Japanese. However there is a slight problem with that. No matter how high his rank as a soldier grows he will always be bound to Britania. Becoming Area 11's ruler will not change anything for the Japanese outside of receiving a new face for their government. At it's core Japan would still be under Britanian rule since their ruler is already a Britanian servant. And let's not rule out the possibility that if Britania decided to wage war on another country they can very easily demand that Suzaku send his people to fight someone else's battles (kind of like how several countries were pulled into WWI due to political/diplomatic reasons). In conclusion, Suzaku's goal is admirable albeit very long and strenuous and might be even doomed to failure considering the current emperor of Britania.
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Old 2008-05-22, 00:56   Link #1235
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The best stories with friends becoming enemies have the two friends being together for a long time with great camaraderie. Through these interactions, you can see a rivalry brewing and even jealousy spring up, where one overshadows the other or their relationship tips the other way and the other starts to hate that fact.

We know that Suzaku and Lelouch were friends a long time ago, but you don't really see much of that time. Right from the get go in the earliest episodes, you know that the two will be opposing each other from the start. Lelouch was already becoming Zero from the first episode, and Suzaku was already piloting the Lancelot.

It would have been really nice if the story had the two together from the beginning, and show the cracks starting to form within their friendship, and then finally splinter.
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Old 2008-05-22, 01:48   Link #1236
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...uh, but there weren't any cracks within their friendship. Lelouch and Suzaku started out hating each other, so the only way to go was up. The only got one summer together anyway.

Besides, there's isn't really a basis for jealousy or 'overshadowing' between them anyway. To compare Lelouch and Suzaku in tactical ability, or Suzaku and Lelouch in physical ability, would be ridiculous, and they both knew this from the start. There's friendly teasing on that basis from both fronts, but in fact the extreme seperation in their abilities actually enhances their bond, to the point where they both believe "We can achieve anything together". Add that to the fact that Lelouch and Suzaku have the same goals (happiness, a kind world), and you end up with what should have been an unbreakable bond.
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Old 2008-05-22, 01:52   Link #1237
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Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto View Post
-After watching all the episodes currently available within the last 2 days (hoorah for lack of sleep) I got to say that I am not impressed with Suzaku at the moment. On the one hand he is certainly in love with an admirable idea but at the same time his methods are not at all compatible with that idea. He claimed recently that he wants to become a "Knight of 1" so that he can gain control of Area 11 and therefore, in his opinion, freedom for the Japanese. However there is a slight problem with that. No matter how high his rank as a soldier grows he will always be bound to Britania. Becoming Area 11's ruler will not change anything for the Japanese outside of receiving a new face for their government. At it's core Japan would still be under Britanian rule since their ruler is already a Britanian servant. And let's not rule out the possibility that if Britania decided to wage war on another country they can very easily demand that Suzaku send his people to fight someone else's battles (kind of like how several countries were pulled into WWI due to political/diplomatic reasons). In conclusion, Suzaku's goal is admirable albeit very long and strenuous and might be even doomed to failure considering the current emperor of Britania.
I think the biggest flaw in Suzaku's plan is whether or not he can become the "knight of one",after that is pretty easy. He can even cut tie with Britania after a few year,now that Japanese can make their own Knightmare, having the best knight of Britania as their leader and all the Sakuradite in the world (70%) Britania wouldn't want to mess with them anymore.

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send his people to fight someone else's battles
Actually this only might happen if Suzaku is in charge, but if Lelouch win then the Japanese will surely going to fight someone else's battle.

Btw, the emperor won't be around forever and someone else will replace him(if only "prince" Lelouch realize that to geass his way to the throne is much easier than to start a rebellion)
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Old 2008-05-22, 02:08   Link #1238
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And it's not like it's certain the Emperor is a bad guy anyways. Everything he's done has been to 'destroy the gods', he's been pretty reasonable (if not kind) otherwise, and until we find out what that means him being a hero is still just as likely as him being a villain.

Fukitsu Naruto, you mentioned in the other thread that Lelouch knows what kind of man he's dealing with, knows what kind of man is ruling Britannia but as far as I'm concerned Suzaku might actually have seen the bigger picture. Lelouch is obviously biased against his father for not caring about his perfect, innocent mother and still believes the Emperor is motivated purely by the Darwinist views he's espoused. Suzaku, on the other hand, knows the world isn't a happy place and has been shown the Emperor's true plans. The Emperor might not be a bad guy, and Suzaku knows that better than Lelouch.
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Old 2008-05-22, 08:25   Link #1239
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And it's not like it's certain the Emperor is a bad guy anyways. Everything he's done has been to 'destroy the gods', he's been pretty reasonable (if not kind) otherwise, and until we find out what that means him being a hero is still just as likely as him being a villain.

Fukitsu Naruto, you mentioned in the other thread that Lelouch knows what kind of man he's dealing with, knows what kind of man is ruling Britannia but as far as I'm concerned Suzaku might actually have seen the bigger picture. Lelouch is obviously biased against his father for not caring about his perfect, innocent mother and still believes the Emperor is motivated purely by the Darwinist views he's espoused. Suzaku, on the other hand, knows the world isn't a happy place and has been shown the Emperor's true plans. The Emperor might not be a bad guy, and Suzaku knows that better than Lelouch.
You have a great argument there mainly due to the fact that unlike the governor generals that have ruled Area 11 in the past plus the military officials we have seen we've yet to see any form of cruelty towards Charles himself, all the time he's seem busy with bigger plans than dealing with the Black Knights, everything else is either handle by the current governor general or the Britannia military, if he saw them as a threat I bet he could take them out in a snap of his finger but he seems too busy for a grand scheme with V.V. that we are all left in the dark with for now. Our only sort of glimpse we may have seen for him being an antagonist is the speech he gave in season 1 and R2 episode 7, his abandonment of Lelouch and Nunnally, and him laughing at Euphie's demise. If anything he to could be a pawn to V.V. and not just know it yet. With Suzaku its always hard to really point out what his true intentions are with all the hate he gets, the only time we got to see what was in his mind was with the Mao incident, he might also get the big picture as well but I think Lelouch got the big picure in the latest episode where in the next turn he might go bring down the Britannia's influence throughout the entire world with China's help.
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Old 2008-05-22, 08:54   Link #1240
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Originally Posted by DN24 View Post
Actually this only might happen if Suzaku is in charge, but if Lelouch win then the Japanese will surely going to fight someone else's battle.

Btw, the emperor won't be around forever and someone else will replace him(if only "prince" Lelouch realize that to geass his way to the throne is much easier than to start a rebellion)
-Allow me to clarify then. With Suzaku in charge Japan will never be freed from Britanian influence. Everything will continue like it has been at the start of the series: Britanians will still be held in higher regard, the Japanese are still going to be referred to as dirt (with the exception of Suzaku himself). In other words, Britania would always keep Japan on a leash. Lelouch on the other hand wants all Britanian influence gone from Japan, or at least influence that his father has. The only difference between these 2 is that Lelouch's followers willingly set forth into battle believing he can grant them the Japan of the past. Whether this is the wrong method or not remains to be seen however.

-Why does something tell me that just because he is old he can be kept young and healthy with cyber-technology? Just look at Orange-kun...pardon me Jeremiah.

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And it's not like it's certain the Emperor is a bad guy anyways. Everything he's done has been to 'destroy the gods', he's been pretty reasonable (if not kind) otherwise, and until we find out what that means him being a hero is still just as likely as him being a villain.

Fukitsu Naruto, you mentioned in the other thread that Lelouch knows what kind of man he's dealing with, knows what kind of man is ruling Britannia but as far as I'm concerned Suzaku might actually have seen the bigger picture. Lelouch is obviously biased against his father for not caring about his perfect, innocent mother and still believes the Emperor is motivated purely by the Darwinist views he's espoused. Suzaku, on the other hand, knows the world isn't a happy place and has been shown the Emperor's true plans. The Emperor might not be a bad guy, and Suzaku knows that better than Lelouch.
-I don't recall mentioning that the emperor was evil, just that Lelouch knows from personal encounters with him of his way of thinking (let's recall why both Lelouch and Nunnaly are in Japan). Not that I disagree with the notion that the emperor may not be evil but there are certainly a few things make me think otherwise. For the one part, he encourages his children to kill each other senseless to "prove their worth" in order to ascend the throne. But that's not evil considering he never told them openly to slaughter each other. He upholds inequality in the view of "only the strong survive". Last time I checked, the Code Geass world is not a jungle with humans being tormented by providence to the point where survival is an issue. Then again by that same notion, the moment Lelouch decided to wage war on Britania everything became fair game. Of course I might just be thinking too much and inputing real-life into a fantasy.
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