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Old 2008-05-24, 00:14   Link #81
Ledgem
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Join Date: Mar 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbduece View Post
If that 3am incident was some random thing and not a habitual thing then i think it should be forgotten.

I hope you are someone that goes out of thier way to stop smog and general pollution - activist (also lots of chimecals being dump around habitats by corporations) since you are so adamant on this subject.
I brought up the 3 AM incident to show that people can be pretty damn inconsiderate and because it pissed me off. People also honk their horns because they get impatient waiting for friends around here. It's called a cellphone - use it.

I also don't see where you're getting that I'm so adamant about the subject of pollution from this thread. As far as I know, smoking is not a major cause of pollution. I've said it before in this thread but I'll repeat it again: I'm against smoking because it takes advantage of people. It's a product that you use and then can't quit even if you want to, due to its addictive nature. The fact that it's harmful to your body and to those around you makes it doubly worse.

What I really took issue with was your statement:
Quote:
What ever we choose to spend $$ on or time on is arbutrary since importance of anything is for yourself to judge not others. What you think is "worth it" is not what the rest of world thinks
Which is fine, and a nice way for smokers to justify their rotten habit to themselves in the face of criticism over the habit. Self-justification and negating the opinions of others has its place, but be respectful of those around you. That's all. I don't care to breathe in second hand smoke because it is unpleasant and for health concerns. I think the reason we make the effort to go to the bathroom, rather than pissing on the floor in front of each other, is for a similar reason. So just be mindful of those around you, please.
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Last edited by Ledgem; 2008-05-25 at 01:46. Reason: Removed a semi-quoted area that I didn't respond to at the end of the post.
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Old 2008-05-24, 00:49   Link #82
bbduece
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You are sayin smoking is bad for the health and for people around them -agreed. And so is countless other chemicals in the air that cause health risk - chemicals cause by pollution.

The bases of your argument is health concerns for people around smokers so i thought i point out other factors in the air.

A lot of smokers avoid crowds and a lot dont but your argument generalize the whole smoking crowd are indecent people. But i cant stop you from what you belief. I am just going to point out other worst possible air pollutants that you will probably avoid because chewing out smokers is a lot easier than directing your concerns at other possible health risk. Smoking has been stigmatize so i dont blame you.

Cigarettes is my chaser for that congnac shot.

I am social smoker and that is that.

I dislike people who think they are high and mighty because they dont smoke.

And the reason we go the the bathroom instead of the near by tree is because at some point in our history human society decide it was disgusting. Why? because it is socially institutionalize. Not becasue its a health risk. Society for some reason dislike it and shuns it.

Not an activist for smokers, i'm just saying let us smoke in peace.

BTW i agree with you, people need to be considerate and avoid non smokers when they do smoke.

Last edited by bbduece; 2008-05-24 at 01:10.
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Old 2008-05-24, 00:55   Link #83
yezhanquan
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Smoking is not a health risk? Whoa...
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Old 2008-05-24, 01:14   Link #84
sa547
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Obviously, it seems that working in an enclosed work environment greatly reduces my daily cigarette consumption. It's because I greatly respect the sanctity of air-conditioning and consideration to other people's (especially non-smokers) personal space by smoking outside. Though I'm a smoker, I'm very annoyed when someone smokes inside the shop (and politely remind him and point the way to the door), and I don't smoke in close proximity to kids, pregnant women and those who have a strong aversion to smoking (just tell me nicely to back off and I'll keep my distance).

I smoked since I was 21 and I understand fully that while smoking is very harmful and thus I'm cutting down my lifespan (even on half a pack per day), I also remind myself that I have to drop it before I hit 40. Already I've sensed the bad effects recently, and I think that next week I'll get myself a checkup -- including a heart pressure check. Maybe I'll also get started on patches and Zyban, too, but with my teeth in bad shape and a cause for bad bite, chewing gum as a substitute is going to be out of the question.
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Old 2008-05-24, 01:23   Link #85
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbduece View Post
You are sayin smoking is bad for the health and for people around them -agreed. And so is countless other chemicals in the air that cause health risk - chemicals cause by pollution.

The bases of your argument is health concerns for people around smokers so i thought i point out other factors in the air.
Yes, I know that there are other factors that are dangerous to our health in the air. They don't make smoking any better. We can focus on trying to improve overall air quality and making smoking either less prevalent or safer - there's no need to try and divert attention from the dangers/annoyances of smoking by pointing out that worse things exist.


Quote:
A lot of smokers avoid crowds and a lot dont but your argument generalize the whole smoking crowd are indecent people. But i cant stop you from what you belief. I am just going to point out other worst possible air pollutants that you will probably avoid because chewing out smokers is a lot easier than directing your concerns at other possible health risk. Smoking has been stigmatize so i dont blame you.
A lot of smokers avoid crowds, and a lot of them don't. We're both generalizing, and neither one of us can prove the other wrong.

I am concerned about other health risks - I studied environmental engineering, a lot of what I learned was about technologies designed to keep all sorts of crap, be it water or air pollutants, away from humans. Why are you bringing those up?

I am not stigmatized by smoking. I know of its physiological affects on the body and can go into detail if you'd like, but I'm guessing that you know them as well. They're not good. Then comes the fact that it stinks and it's damn expensive. For those reasons I will personally never take up smoking. The reason I dislike the tobacco industry is because I feel that people like you are being taken advantage of. If people could quit smoking whenever they wanted to then I wouldn't be bothered quite as much.

I've had friends who got hooked and struggled to break free, and it pains me to read that Solace is still struggling with the addiction. The tobacco industry is making money from people who don't want to give them money for their product anymore, but can't help but not to - the symptoms of withdrawl are too hard to bear otherwise. That's a disgusting and wrong way to make money, don't you agree? Don't mistake what I'm saying for being "high and mighty" for not smoking - I made my choice based on my knowledge, and I hope that you made your choice based on just as much knowledge. I also hope you never have to experience lung cancer or withdrawl. Life is too short to live with regret, and it'd be quite awful to regret a lifetime of smoking.

Quote:
And the reason we go the the bathroom instead of the near by tree is because at some point in our history human society decide it was disgusting. Why? because it is socially institutionalize. Not becasue its a health risk. Society for some reason dislike it and shuns it.
Oh, but it is a health risk. Do you know why we have wastewater treatment plants? Urine isn't nearly as bad as fecal contamination, but see what happens when hundreds of people are urinating in the streets and rivers and it's all left untreated.

Quote:
Not an activist for smokers, i'm just saying let us smoke in peace.

BTW i agree with you, people need to be considerate and avoid non smokers when they do smoke.
I have no problem with you smoking in peace. Again, I took issue with your initial statement about that. Do what you want, but be mindful of those around you. We agree on that. I think the only reason you're being set off by what I'm saying is because you perceive me as casting judgement on you for smoking at all, and that isn't the case. I hate the tobacco industry, but to me people like you aren't evil or idiots. You're victims, whether you realize it or not. I wish it didn't have to be that way.
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Old 2008-05-24, 01:37   Link #86
TinyRedLeaf
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What makes smoking a particularly pernicious habit is that it's more than a mere psychological addiction. It's also a physical addiction to nicotine. I once had a colleague who smoked a pack of cigarettes a day and we kept encouraging him to drop the habit. Eventually he tried cold turkey...and I ended up feeling sorry for him. He came to work looking like a broken man, nose dribbling, eyes bloodshot and generally looking very, very miserable. He tried to ameliorate the symptoms with nictone patches and a nicotine inhaler, but the craving overcame his resolve and he eventually went back to smoking. Heavily.

Yes, it's true, smokers are responsible for their own health. If they choose to smoke themselves to lung or throat cancer, that's their choice to make, and not for non-smokers to condemn. Bear in mind that many other people grow addicted to alcohol and other physical substances as well. So, if we're really concerned about other people's health, we should go around "banning" those substances too. Of course, we know where that would lead.

But nicotine addiction makes the issue more complicated. We now know that it is a highly addictive substance, so in a sense, it is true to say that Big Tobacco is actively selling a product that effectively binds customers to them. Big Tobacco doesn't even have to try very hard to advertise cigarettes - they already have a horde of "loyal" puffers, who are likely to attract even more smokers through peer pressure. Seen from this angle, it's hard not to see this as an unethical business that needs to be heavily controlled, if not outright destroyed.

So, the discussion comes full circle. Smoking creates avoidable health risks. However, tobacco companies will continue selling cigarettes as long as consumers are addicted to them. To solve one problem (health risks), you necessarily need to stop as many people from picking up the habit or encouraging more to drop the addiction. Hence the anti-smoking legislation and peer pressure to stop smoking.

If smokers don't like the nagging, well, sure we can't force you to listen. But it'll also be very wrong for us to stop trying.

Personally, I strongly dislike the smell of cigarette smoke and I find many smokers to be very inconsiderate, not caring how they blow second-hand smoke into people walking behind them. I've never tried cigarettes and never intend to, but I've tried smoking weed and cigars. Weed, because it's university and it's supposed to be non-addictive (well, it's certainly non-addictive in my case - I've never tried again after I've graduated).

Cigars because, hmm, strangely enough, cigar smoke smells alot better than cigarettes. I don't know why that is the case, especially considering how cigars pack a far heavier punch than cigarettes. In any case, I tried because it was college and because my housemate received a box of big, fat Havana cigars from his girlfriend's dad. Once again, I've almost not touched cigars again after I've graduated. The last time I tried, it was with cheap, nasty cigars, mixed with lots of whisky drinking ('twas a stag party; 'nuff said). I crashed out so badly that I've not been tempted to try again.
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Old 2008-05-24, 01:51   Link #87
Solace
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Actually one of the major reasons for the development of modern sanitation systems was the Black Plague. People literally dumped their crap out the window and onto the street, combined with other animal manures and rains it produced the perfect environment for diseases and the creatures that carried them (namely rats and other rodents). People take indoor plumbing and the like for granted but there's a lot of effort that goes into making your life as clean as possible.

I appreciate your sentiments Ledgem, and I also agree that the hypocrisy that society places on drugs is frustrating. Marijuana is less dangerous and more beneficial than tobacco but illegal. Alcohol and tobacco related problems contribute to a substantial amount of taxpayer expense. Although alcohol at least has some redeemable uses, tobacco serves no purpose at all. But they're legal.

Ironically, it was easier for me to quit smoking pot than it ever was quitting smoking. Go figure.

That said, I don't regret the things I've done with my life and if I were to die tomorrow, well....I'd be dead and things would go on. I'm not all that afraid of death, except the pain, and the things I regret are more wistful reminiscing than anything. I tend not to dwell on the past too much except to learn from mistakes.

I'm a one day at a time kind of person which tends to frustrate a lot of people. As you say, life is short. So enjoy every moment while it lasts. You could be a smoker for 30 years and die because a piano crashed on you....life's funny like that.
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Old 2008-05-24, 08:42   Link #88
HayashiTakara
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People die from cars more than anything else in the world. There should be a ban of cars, and we need to campaign heavily against people's right to drive!!

Seriously, this is ridiculous, I use to be a smoker some time ago and it annoyed the crap out of me when I hear people trying to tell me what I should be doing, especially when I can think of a million other things that are just as bad or if not worse. T.V., Video Games, Personal Computers, all are addictive media that leads to kids growing up to fat, unhealthy both mentally and physically, anti-social, dysfunctional human beings, why not bann these things too? Simply allow people to make their own decisions, allow the informations of the risks available to those who want it and let them decide. Anything and everything can be addictive, and basically all addictions are basically bad for you, if the person don't want to resolve themselves to overcome that addiction, thats that person's decision. Unless that person is bumping uglies with you, mind your business and live your own life.
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Old 2008-05-24, 09:43   Link #89
Kakashi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
People die from cars more than anything else in the world. There should be a ban of cars, and we need to campaign heavily against people's right to drive!!

Seriously, this is ridiculous, I use to be a smoker some time ago and it annoyed the crap out of me when I hear people trying to tell me what I should be doing, especially when I can think of a million other things that are just as bad or if not worse. T.V., Video Games, Personal Computers, all are addictive media that leads to kids growing up to fat, unhealthy both mentally and physically, anti-social, dysfunctional human beings, why not bann these things too? Simply allow people to make their own decisions, allow the informations of the risks available to those who want it and let them decide. Anything and everything can be addictive, and basically all addictions are basically bad for you, if the person don't want to resolve themselves to overcome that addiction, thats that person's decision. Unless that person is bumping uglies with you, mind your business and live your own life.
I think the problem stems from smoking harming others around you. While I think it's fine to smoke if the person finds it acceptable but people shouldn't make assumptions that everyone around them is comfortable. Now a few of my friends smoke but they make an effort not to smoke as much around me especially since I'm asmatic. I'm asmatic in the first place because my mother smoked while she was pregnant and then another 14 years after I was born.

I don't think badly of people who smoke because I understand the principles of addiction and it applies to everything. Most watch tv every day, log onto msn everyday, browse the internet etc. I don't blame smokers for anything but I was angered at my mother for smoking while I was still a foetus. A child should be given priority over an addiction to smoking. Mind I'm talking about parents smoking. I'm not affected by a friend of mine having 10 minute smoke next to me since it hardly matters and nor does it bother me. It's just the feeling of breathing cigarette smoke whilst you're sleeping, when you get up in the morning, when you're having breakfast, lunch, dinner. Can you imagine how bad it is for a child to live like that for 14 years? Luckily I was a fit boy who went swimming twice a week, did marathons and played all types of sport. Still I wondered why I wasn't quite as fit as others who trained just as hard as me. Now I'm pretty sure it was because I went home to somewhat reverse my efforts by inhaling cigarette smoke.

That's what I frown upon.

I pretty much agree with Ledgem but I wouldn't have my mother shot She was and is the best mother I could ever wish for, even if she smoked while we were growing up. She stopped for us eventually and she regrets doing it. I don't hold a grudge but I am to this day very dissapointed in her.

But the looks Doctors gave her for smoking with three children...lets just say I never want to recieve such a look!

edit: In the UK some of you guys have no idea how quickly people are stopping smoking. It's banned in all public places now and it seems people have been affected by all the advertising. Good news for the UK but I know Italians are still heavy smokers and Slavs continue to smoke non-stop. Overall though there are less and less people smoking. At least 10 people I know have given up, after having smoked for a good 20 years.

Last edited by Kakashi; 2008-05-24 at 10:08.
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Old 2008-05-24, 09:48   Link #90
NightbatŪ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
Facts.

I'm not really an anti-smoking crusader (dropped that addiction long ago), but I'll take on this one in their stead.

1) The money that you "gained" from not smoking, or more exactly not losing to smoking, *is* there. If people choose, in your anecdotal example, to spend the money on something else, then they *did* gain that something else in return.

...even if it's another addiction.

2) Less than getting stuck in traffic? Riiight. You need to post scientific sources or color me unconvinced.

3) And?

4) You also forgot to mention that because they lived a significant number of years less, they also happen to contribute to the economy almost in as many number of years less, minus the retirement time.

And I'm even being generous by applying the broken window fallacy on myself, or I would've said they would contribute to the economy in that much less time rather than almost.

So they're still waaay more expensive once you count that in.
1) Gained nothing else, it's still gone, not smoking or quitting, you won't see any financial benefit

2) http://www.news-medical.net/?id=28273
...But I admit I was wrong on the trafficpollution http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle473742.ece
Then again, I'd rather be stuck in a garage with 3 smokers for a day than 1 running Mondeo diesel

3) My point was that some people here believe Governments are stand up, idealistic organisations, think again: they won't ban smoking, it's too lucrative

4) Smokers die 6 years earlier than non-smokers, with an average age of 81 in my country
and a retirement age of 65
1 person recieving a pension of around €12000 a year, do the math


Here's some more info:
http://apha.confex.com/apha/128am/te...aper_14898.htm
especially this line is funny:
Quote:
These costs equate to a lifetime health care expense of over $0.30-0.60/pack of cigarettes sold in the US in 1995.
since taxes on tobacco already far exceeded those 30-60cts in '95 it basically means medical costs are already payed for

Like I said, if smoking didn't give a profit, it would have been banned ages ago
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Old 2008-05-24, 10:40   Link #91
HayashiTakara
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I wholly agree that parents who smoke with their children indoors is sheer negligence. I don't believe in smoking indoors, if you're gonna smoke take a step outside and have your smoke.

Funny thing is.. if you're stuck in a garage with the car running you're 100% surely going to die, while the cigarettes won't kill you then and there.
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Old 2008-05-24, 11:05   Link #92
Ichihara Asako
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Never seen the appeal myself. My parents were smokers, and I never felt compelled to do it myself, though my brother ended up becoming one too. All the health and 'politeness' reasons aside, I just think the cost is absurd. I saw packets over $15 at my local corner store a few days ago, and my mother goes through 2-3 packets a week, so if she pays that sort of price where she lives, I need to smack her. >.<

But then, I never saw the appeal of alcohol for the same reasons. Too high a cost for such little (if any) benefit. Even when I was on a six figure income, I never thought about wasting my money in such a manner. But I've always been frugal. ^^;;
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Old 2008-05-24, 12:01   Link #93
HayashiTakara
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15 bucks a pack? that must be some really good cigarettes... or are you from Canada? I heard in Canada cigarettes are insanely expensive.

Alcohol is straight up poison, its why your body rejects it so violently, I always thought it was funny how people who gets drunk every friday/saturday night criticise smokers, when they're consuming high volumes of poison and killing the only cells in your body that doesn't reproduce. And yeah, Alcohol is insanely expensive, especially if you go out to drink. Like in a bar it averages to about 5 bucks for a beer on tap, 8 ~ 16 bucks for a mix drink or shot of hard liquor, and multiply that by like 10 or more to get wasted, you're looking at between 50 to 160 dollars plus in one night, just to tank yourself on poison.
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Old 2008-05-24, 12:22   Link #94
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Quote:
Alcohol is straight up poison, its why your body rejects it so violently, I always thought it was funny how people who gets drunk every friday/saturday night criticise smokers, when they're consuming high volumes of poison and killing the only cells in your body that doesn't reproduce.
For me, alcohol is a different experience altogether. It's similar to the experience of passing a joint around a room, it's the social feeling of sharing something with other people. Though I dislike party drinking (the only time I got really badly wasted because of alcohol was at a party), the experience of being in a bar with a lot of friends and have a toast, lifting your mug into the air and cheering at the same time is something unique and priceless.

I write this after having the best bar night I've had in months
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Old 2008-05-24, 13:37   Link #95
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
People die from cars more than anything else in the world. There should be a ban of cars, and we need to campaign heavily against people's right to drive!!
This sort of reasoning is nothing more than an excuse that people engaging in dangerous behavior rely on. It's no different than bbdeuce's mention that there are worse air pollutants in existence. Neither this fact nor that fact make smoking any better. Does it bother you to know that your habit of smoking is putting toxins directly into your body, and into the bodies of those around you? Sure, people die in car accidents, people breathe in car fumes, but generally neither of those result from voluntary actions. We all recognize it for what it is, so let's not get into this game of trying to make smoking seem any less worse than it is.

Quote:
Seriously, this is ridiculous, I use to be a smoker some time ago and it annoyed the crap out of me when I hear people trying to tell me what I should be doing, especially when I can think of a million other things that are just as bad or if not worse. T.V., Video Games, Personal Computers, all are addictive media that leads to kids growing up to fat, unhealthy both mentally and physically, anti-social, dysfunctional human beings, why not bann these things too? Simply allow people to make their own decisions, allow the informations of the risks available to those who want it and let them decide. Anything and everything can be addictive, and basically all addictions are basically bad for you, if the person don't want to resolve themselves to overcome that addiction, thats that person's decision. Unless that person is bumping uglies with you, mind your business and live your own life.
Your comparisons are a bit more of the same of what I mentioned above, but I'll tell you why smoking is different from these other addictions. In general, the addictions that you've mentioned are psychological and/or habitual. If a person suddenly can't watch television, play games, or use their computer and they previously engaged in those activities very heavily, they are not going to suffer physical withdrawl. And this is what makes smoking so dangerous.

To any smoker reading this: do you doubt me? Do me the favor of a little experiment, then. If you smoke regularly and have been doing so for at least a year, don't smoke for about a month. Report back to us what it felt like to not smoke. If you don't want to go through it for yourself you can very easily find out what it was like from accounts on the internet. Solace has details of it in his post, as did TinyRedLeaf.

Can people be addicted to video games and have negative impacts on their lives? Certainly. Comparing it to smoking doesn't make it any better or worse, just as it doesn't make smoking any better or worse. There's a key difference, however. Not everyone who plays videogames, watches television, or uses computers becomes addicted to it. However we are all similar physiologically, and it has been established over and over again that nicotine, a substance in cigarettes, is physically addictive. There are some people who, whether by low-frequency usage or slightly altered physiology, do not become addicted to cigarettes. These people are in the minority, if not the extreme minority, of cigarette smokers. You can't say the same about any other group of addicts except for drug addicts.

If you recognize it for what it is and can accept it, good. I still feel sorrow for you, but it shows that you can take responsibility for what you're doing. If you're making excuses and trying to show that there are worse things in the world than smoking, and that as a result smoking should be given a free pass, I view that as an inability to accept that you're spending a lot of money on a habit that offers next to no health benefits. The tobacco companies probably love that, because you and people like you will spout rhetoric that attempts to make cigarettes seem harmless or even like something good.
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Old 2008-05-24, 15:47   Link #96
Echoes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
15 bucks a pack? that must be some really good cigarettes... or are you from Canada? I heard in Canada cigarettes are insanely expensive.
In some parts of Europe tobacco is insanely expensive. (I don't know about Canada, but perhaps there too.) The warning labels on them are huge here as well, covering like 60% of the package and warn you about everything from cancer to impotence. 15 dollars is still a lot. The country I live in has the most expensive cigarettes in the world, a pack will cost you roughly 8 euro (around 12 US dollars according to Yahoo Finance) on average. (Of course, buying them at small shops or gas stations will generally be more expensive)

Smoking is also prohibited in bars and restaurants, so the government has done just about everything in their power to discourage people from smoking.

Still, a lot of people pick up the habit.
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Old 2008-05-24, 17:49   Link #97
Cerradura
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*in the voice of mr makey* smoking is bad mmk?
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Old 2008-05-24, 18:14   Link #98
HayashiTakara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
This sort of reasoning is nothing more than an excuse that people engaging in dangerous behavior rely on. It's no different than bbdeuce's mention that there are worse air pollutants in existence. Neither this fact nor that fact make smoking any better. Does it bother you to know that your habit of smoking is putting toxins directly into your body, and into the bodies of those around you? Sure, people die in car accidents, people breathe in car fumes, but generally neither of those result from voluntary actions. We all recognize it for what it is, so let's not get into this game of trying to make smoking seem any less worse than it is.


Your comparisons are a bit more of the same of what I mentioned above, but I'll tell you why smoking is different from these other addictions. In general, the addictions that you've mentioned are psychological and/or habitual. If a person suddenly can't watch television, play games, or use their computer and they previously engaged in those activities very heavily, they are not going to suffer physical withdrawl. And this is what makes smoking so dangerous.

To any smoker reading this: do you doubt me? Do me the favor of a little experiment, then. If you smoke regularly and have been doing so for at least a year, don't smoke for about a month. Report back to us what it felt like to not smoke. If you don't want to go through it for yourself you can very easily find out what it was like from accounts on the internet. Solace has details of it in his post, as did TinyRedLeaf.

Can people be addicted to video games and have negative impacts on their lives? Certainly. Comparing it to smoking doesn't make it any better or worse, just as it doesn't make smoking any better or worse. There's a key difference, however. Not everyone who plays videogames, watches television, or uses computers becomes addicted to it. However we are all similar physiologically, and it has been established over and over again that nicotine, a substance in cigarettes, is physically addictive. There are some people who, whether by low-frequency usage or slightly altered physiology, do not become addicted to cigarettes. These people are in the minority, if not the extreme minority, of cigarette smokers. You can't say the same about any other group of addicts except for drug addicts.

If you recognize it for what it is and can accept it, good. I still feel sorrow for you, but it shows that you can take responsibility for what you're doing. If you're making excuses and trying to show that there are worse things in the world than smoking, and that as a result smoking should be given a free pass, I view that as an inability to accept that you're spending a lot of money on a habit that offers next to no health benefits. The tobacco companies probably love that, because you and people like you will spout rhetoric that attempts to make cigarettes seem harmless or even like something good.
All addictions are psychological and habitual, thats why its part of the definition of addiction. Nothing else causes withdrawls? I've seen people who haven't get their daily fix of WoW go through withdrawls its not a pretty sight. Every addiction causes withdrawls if taken away from the source. There was a thread on here about anime addiction and how people were saying that they were going through withdrawls when they don't watch anime for a period of time. You're deluding yourself if you truly believe other addictions don't cause withdrawls.

Video Games, are a major problem in asia, its a major cause of death among young people. They would get so addicted that they ignore personal hygene and even forget to eat, drink and sleep, and eventually would just die in front of their computers. Morbid Obesity is worse than smoking, sorry. Smoking shaves off 6 ~ 7 years off the end of your life, while eating potato chips and hamburgers 24/7 in front of the computer screen/tv screen cause death at the age of 30 from cardiac arrest.

And no, not everyone who smokes gets addicted, I've known many people who have smoked and never got addicted. Social smokers are a good example, they only smoke when they around friends who smoke, otherwise they don't have the urge to light one up.
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Old 2008-05-24, 19:21   Link #99
Irenicus
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
All addictions are psychological and habitual, thats why its part of the definition of addiction. Nothing else causes withdrawls? I've seen people who haven't get their daily fix of WoW go through withdrawls its not a pretty sight. Every addiction causes withdrawls if taken away from the source. There was a thread on here about anime addiction and how people were saying that they were going through withdrawls when they don't watch anime for a period of time. You're deluding yourself if you truly believe other addictions don't cause withdrawls.
You seriously believe that?

Look, nicotine is physically addictive. It's scientifically proven beyond reasonable doubt. Video games aren't. They aren't sending chemicals flooding into your body and messing up your nervous system in some crazy way to force your body to demand the substance. They don't create withdrawal symptoms except perhaps in an insanely small number of extreme cases where the psychological obsession was to the point that something in the body responded as well, and even then never as harsh and real as a smoker's withdrawal.

Oh, and the whole "anime withdrawal," except again in those extra-rare cases where the skewed mind affect the body, is just otaku masturbation, "I'm in on this more than you." Nothing more.

This is seriously bullshit man.
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Old 2008-05-24, 19:40   Link #100
Ledgem
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
All addictions are psychological and habitual, thats why its part of the definition of addiction. Nothing else causes withdrawls? I've seen people who haven't get their daily fix of WoW go through withdrawls its not a pretty sight. Every addiction causes withdrawls if taken away from the source. There was a thread on here about anime addiction and how people were saying that they were going through withdrawls when they don't watch anime for a period of time. You're deluding yourself if you truly believe other addictions don't cause withdrawls.
I understand you're reacting very defensively because most anti-smokers act as though they're leading the next crusade against you in person, but please don't give me the same treatment. Re-read my post. There are multiple forms of addiction, but the one behind smoking is a physical addiction. Your body begins to develop a dependency to nicotine, not to cigarettes. For this reason many products that claim to help people quit smoking consist of nicotine-related products, whether in the form of patches or gum. The idea is to do what Solace is doing: slowly decrease the amount of nicotine that the body is exposed to in order to minimize symptoms of withdrawl.

If it were smoking in general that were viewed as terrible then items like water pipes (hookahs) would also be looked down upon. As far as I know water pipes do not contain any addictive substances. If anyone becomes addicted to water pipes it will be a psychological addiction. While psychological addictions are no less serious than any form of addiction, you simply can't compare the two equally in the manner that you're doing. Yes, they're harmful to your life, we agree on that. But the withdrawls that people experience are not going to be the same.

Quote:
Video Games, are a major problem in asia, its a major cause of death among young people. They would get so addicted that they ignore personal hygene and even forget to eat, drink and sleep, and eventually would just die in front of their computers. Morbid Obesity is worse than smoking, sorry. Smoking shaves off 6 ~ 7 years off the end of your life, while eating potato chips and hamburgers 24/7 in front of the computer screen/tv screen cause death at the age of 30 from cardiac arrest.
A major cause of death, is it? I've heard the stories of people dying by videogames in the manner you described. The fact that it makes headlines each time means to me that it's still a unique manner of death. When's the last time you heard of someone dying in a car accident on world news? You don't, because it is unfortunately all too common.

Furthermore, your reasoning about what way of dying is worse is, frankly, ridiculous, and please don't feel insulted by that. I'm not endorsing an unhealthy lifestyle of eating potato chips and hamburgers, and to say that videogames/television cause cardiac arrest because poor eating and television go hand in hand is nonsense. I don't particularly want to die by a cardiac arrest at age 30, nor do I particularly want to die while struggling for breath on a breathing machine. It's easy to be high and mighty about smoking and stating how you're willing to face the consequences, but trust me on this - when people are at the end of their (shorter than expected) life and their lungs are failing on them, they all too rarely have that haughty attitude.

Quote:
And no, not everyone who smokes gets addicted, I've known many people who have smoked and never got addicted. Social smokers are a good example, they only smoke when they around friends who smoke, otherwise they don't have the urge to light one up.
I made a mention of this in my post, and WanderingKnight is our living example of someone who isn't addicted to smoking but does it in social situations. Yes, it happens.

But this isn't what happens to the majority. If it were, how do you explain the prominence of all of those programs and products designed to help smokers quit? If it were so easy for people to quit, or if there weren't so many people struggling with the addiction, then such businesses should be pretty small and low-profile.

The reason I continue to respond to your posts is because I feel that you're doing everyone who reads your posts a disservice. You're essentially telling them that they shouldn't feel bad about harming their bodies because there are worse things in the world; that the addiction caused by smoking isn't so bad or is overblown; that there are worse ways to die than lung, lip, or throat cancer (in your opinion); that you should ultimately do what you want and not let others tell you otherwise.

If a person smokes and they know what they're doing to their body, they know that they're lowering their quality of life, they know that they're risking addiction to a very expensive habit, they know that they may be harming the lungs of those around them - if they know all of that, I am very sorry for them, but I can't say anything to them. It's your decision if you want to take up such an activity. Yet there are countless people who get into the habit without fully realizing the implications of what they are doing. My posts are for the people who would fall into that category. I have to wonder whether many of the pro-smoking posters don't fall into that category, as well, as I have yet to see many of them endorse smoking while simply admitting that what I'm posting is true and that they can accept it. HayashiTakara, trying to tell me that there are worse addictions is no different than bbduece saying that there are worse air pollutants in the world than cigarette smoke - it attempts to sideline the issues around smoking or make them seem insignificant compared to a different issue. If I am factually incorrect about smoking, then please correct me. If I'm correct, don't try to show the facts in a different light so as to mitigate them. Leave that to the marketers of the tobacco corporations.
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