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Old 2008-05-24, 01:33   Link #1061
Triddy
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The way I see it, two things could happen. Likely more, but I can only think of two.

1) The theory I remember reading (I don't remember if it's actually in volume 9 or not, it's been a while since I read it) turns out to be true. Kyon is the source of the power. Because Kyon has feelings for Mikuru (You may not agree, but damn, I'm sticking to it!), has great respect for Yuki, and at least accepts Koizumi, I doubt he would want them to go.

2) Kyon hasn't played the John Smith card in the real world. Doing that will pretty much ensure they stick around.

I don't think she will stop believing in them completely, ever. Take an attitude like Kyon at the beginning of the series, maybe.

One thing that occured to me, wouldn't this whole thing end up being an Endless Eight? Haruhi, at the end of this year, isn't going to want Mikuru to leave, which would break apart the SOS brigade.
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Old 2008-05-24, 04:33   Link #1062
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane View Post
Taking Haruhi's reality-altering powers into consideration, if she stopped believing in aliens, time-travelers, espers and whatnot, wouldn't those things cease to exist?
Even if she stop believing in alines espers time travelers (and etc...) I don't think we should worrie about the survival of Mikuru, Koizumi ,Nagato and other weirdo than made enought impression on Haruhi. Her perception of her world might be changing but she will never totally stopping beliving in the existence of the Weird Stuff outside. At the very least, they will remain in this world, but without being esper , time traveler or alien.
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Old 2008-05-24, 05:56   Link #1063
Kogetsu Shirogane
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Three unrelated things that I'm only putting together because I don't feel like either triple-posting or waiting for other people to post.

Ending commentary: To be honest, I think the only way that's guaranteed to make everyone mad is a "Then I woke up, it was all a dream" ending. Any other way will leave some people bitter, but I don't think it'll lead to any angry fanletters and/or death threats.

What'd happen if blah blah blah: If they suddenly did stop being the "alien," time-traveler and esper we all know and kinda-like/love, would they even remember they were those things at one point?

Volume 10 theory: Chances are, either the two stories will come to a literal crash, or one is just a false reality created by either Haruhi or whomever called Kyon in the real one. Regardless of how it turns out, this story going to be fun to see animated in about twenty years.
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Old 2008-05-24, 15:41   Link #1064
Kaisos Erranon
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Because I don't want to quote about five different posts here, I'll just post my thoughts in one go as well.
  • Assuming 8 books per school year, I can see a maximum of 24 or so books, if they last all three school years. I don't expect the story to last beyond that.

  • KyonxMikuru will never happen, mostly because it didn't happen, from Adult Mikuru's perspective. Also, Adult Mikuru is evil morally ambiguous.

  • The "Kyonism" theory would pretty much destroy both the premise of the series and Kyon's uniqueness. So, no.

  • Kyon/Haruhi is not cliche. How is it cliche? Also, though "siblings" is a nice thought and all, it's pretty clear Haruhi wants to get into Kyon's pants. And Haruhi always gets what she wants. >_>

  • Haruhi will never stop believing in the supernatural, and if her powers ever did stabilize entirely, you can be sure that Kyon would do something to destabilize them again. He likes his life being crazy, and I really think he'd miss it.

  • Vol. 10's Betaverse is pretty much doomed. That's a given. Also, given the appearance of slider(s), finally, it looks like we do indeed have alternate universes.

  • Yes, sliders are unconfirmed, however, sliders are the only beings that Haruhi mentioned in her opening speech that have not shown up yet. Hence, it makes sense that the mysterious girl would be a slider, and, perhaps, a replacement for Mikuru come third year.
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Old 2008-05-24, 19:54   Link #1065
OceanBlue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane View Post
But where would that leave Mikuru, Yuki and Itsuki? Would they revert to (roughly) their Disappearance selves or would they just disappear altogether? Taking Haruhi's reality-altering powers into consideration, if she stopped believing in aliens, time-travelers, espers and whatnot, wouldn't those things cease to exist?
The problem with them disappearing when she stops believing that they exist is that first, in order to believe that they don't exist, she would first have to establish that no one in the world is an alien et al. [Supernatural.], because she can't believe that they don't exist but still believe that people could be supernatural. Once she firmly believes that no one in the world is supernatural, I think that they're more likely to revert to their Disappearance-like versions if it were to ever happen, which I doubt.

I never thought about the idea that Kyon's alternate-future sister is the Slider, but I wonder about the possibility only because of this line.
Spoiler for Novel 9:

Not to mention that Kyon's sister doesn't have a name yet. It's odd that Miyoko has a name and Kyon's sister doesn't, and I'm more comfortable with the idea of using a character who barely has a purpose yet has a name instead of suddenly giving a name to Kyon's sister.
Then again, things aren't decided by what I'm comfortable with, so it's just my thoughts. I haven't heard anything support Miyoko either, so I don't really have a strong conviction [Or even a conviction at all.] that it's Miyoko. Do their personalities even match [I don't remember anything about Miyoko, so forgive me if it's not mentioned.].
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Old 2008-05-24, 20:03   Link #1066
Triddy
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24 books? No, I would say 16. Remember, regardless of what ship you sail on, Mikuru is both a year higher and part of the SOS Brigade. After the end of the second year, Mikuru is going to have to go away. Not very fitting for one of the most important characters.

Quote:
KyonxMikuru will never happen, mostly because it didn't happen, from Adult Mikuru's perspective. Also, Adult Mikuru is evil morally ambiguous.
Not trying to attack anyone: How do we/you know? Legit question, because I honestly can't remember if it was brought up in the books, it's been too long since I've read them. I know Asahina-san (big) said something like "Don't get to close to me," but that can go either way.
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Old 2008-05-24, 20:35   Link #1067
Tunafishisgood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triddy View Post
Not trying to attack anyone: How do we/you know? Legit question, because I honestly can't remember if it was brought up in the books, it's been too long since I've read them. I know Asahina-san (big) said something like "Don't get to close to me," but that can go either way.
XD Well if Kyon got too close to Mikuru, Mikuru and Kyon won't survive. (Jealously is very powerful)

Now being serious, it's all up to the author, he has the god like powers in Haruhi's world. XD he can do anything, however do have to watch out for audiance's responses.
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Old 2008-05-24, 21:10   Link #1068
Triddy
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Define survive?

I mean, she may go the The Melancholy of Asahina Mikuru route. Imply a punishment so inhumane that it scars them for life, without actually destroying the world.

Man, I want to see that story animated more than anything else, just for two scenes. This being one of them.
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Old 2008-05-24, 22:36   Link #1069
Reckoner
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I want to know Kyon's real name really badly. Will we ever learn it? Sasaki knows it.
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Old 2008-05-24, 22:57   Link #1070
Sute443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Vol. 10's Betaverse is pretty much doomed. That's a given. Also, given the appearance of slider(s), finally, it looks like we do indeed have alternate universes.
But it's the fun universe! Aw, why do the fun things never last?

...

Yes, I AM cheering for the Anti-SOS Dan. Maybe it's because I'm inexplicably drawn to doomed things, or maybe because the idea of someone like Suzumiya having her power in real life terrifies me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Yes, sliders are unconfirmed, however, sliders are the only beings that Haruhi mentioned in her opening speech that have not shown up yet. Hence, it makes sense that the mysterious girl would be a slider, and, perhaps, a replacement for Mikuru come third year.
Does that thought not strike anyone else as incredibly dark? For Suzumiya to just replace one of her friends like she was of no importance... it would seem like she hadn't learned anything from Volume 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner
I want to know Kyon's real name really badly. Will we ever learn it? Sasaki knows it.
We'll probably learn it in the final volume.

Or when this scenario plays out:

Random person: *Calls Kyon by his real name.*
Suzumiya: Eh? <Kyon's real name>? Who's that?
Kyon: Me. Wait, you don't even know my name?
Suzumiya: *Realizes she knows very little about her love interest. Bad stuff may or may not happen.*

Which could be the same thing, I suppose.
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Old 2008-05-25, 00:16   Link #1071
BobaLunatic
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Haruhi would already know Kyon's name since he introduced himself with it at the beginning of the first year (unless she erased from her mind because he wasn't an alien/time traveller/esper lol).

I actually hope that we never learn Kyon's real name. I (and many others) identify Kyon as "Kyon". To label him with a real name, especially at the very end, would feel tacked on and a little disorienting.

To add on to that "they won't disappear" thing, even if she completely banished the thought of supernatural entities, she still believes that Koizumi, Yuki, and Mikuru exist, right? So they would probably just lose their unique abilities... That's a bit sad for Mikuru, though, since she mentions that she identifies the future as her home and would miss it.
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Old 2008-05-25, 00:39   Link #1072
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OceanBlue View Post
Not to mention that Kyon's sister doesn't have a name yet. It's odd that Miyoko has a name and Kyon's sister doesn't, and I'm more comfortable with the idea of using a character who barely has a purpose yet has a name instead of suddenly giving a name to Kyon's sister.
Then again, things aren't decided by what I'm comfortable with, so it's just my thoughts. I haven't heard anything support Miyoko either, so I don't really have a strong conviction [Or even a conviction at all.] that it's Miyoko. Do their personalities even match [I don't remember anything about Miyoko, so forgive me if it's not mentioned.].
Miyoko will probably serve some purpose, but she doesn't resemble Slider-tan much. Different hair, different looks... seems much less shy and much more outgoing.

You know, like Kyon's Sister. >_>


Quote:
Originally Posted by Triddy View Post
24 books? No, I would say 16. Remember, regardless of what ship you sail on, Mikuru is both a year higher and part of the SOS Brigade. After the end of the second year, Mikuru is going to have to go away. Not very fitting for one of the most important characters.
She's not plot important, not at all (well, at least the younger one isn't). She serves no other purpose other than a quasi-love interest, fanservice machine, and the promise that at least one member of the SOS Brigade survives.

If it isn't obvious, I really, really hate Mikuru.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triddy View Post
Not trying to attack anyone: How do we/you know? Legit question, because I honestly can't remember if it was brought up in the books, it's been too long since I've read them. I know Asahina-san (big) said something like "Don't get to close to me," but that can go either way.
I think it's pretty obvious from her behavior that she still likes Kyon, but never got close to him like she wanted to, and now can't. But that's just me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I want to know Kyon's real name really badly. Will we ever learn it? Sasaki knows it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sute443 View Post
We'll probably learn it in the final volume.
Author has said he will reveal it eventually, and that it will not be a last minute thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sute443 View Post
Does that thought not strike anyone else as incredibly dark? For Suzumiya to just replace one of her friends like she was of no importance... it would seem like she hadn't learned anything from Volume 2.
I meant plot-wise, not character-wise. She'll fill the role that Mikuru did. Or maybe another first-year will join for that role.

I'd like to see a succubus join the SOS Brigade...
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Old 2008-05-25, 00:59   Link #1073
Triddy
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Quote:
She's not plot important, not at all (well, at least the younger one isn't). She serves no other purpose other than a quasi-love interest, fanservice machine, and the promise that at least one member of the SOS Brigade survives.

Guess I worded it wrong. Mikuru, herself, is not important to to the story at all, you're right. The presence of a time-traveler is what is indispensable, and it just happens to be Mikuru. Time traveler allowed for Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody, which got Kyon out of Disappearance and essentially puts him in the hot seat as the most powerful being in the universe.

Hopefully, there is no disputes with that last line.
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Old 2008-05-25, 01:05   Link #1074
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triddy View Post
Guess I worded it wrong. Mikuru, herself, is not important to to the story at all, you're right. The presence of a time-traveler is what is indispensable, and it just happens to be Mikuru. Time traveler allowed for Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody, which got Kyon out of Disappearance and essentially puts him in the hot seat as the most powerful being in the universe.

Hopefully, there is no disputes with that last line.
Nope, no disputes, although I'd more say Kyon is the most powerful HUMAN in the universe. Haruhi and the aliens still have more sheer power than he does. He just has a vast influence.

You know, even if Mikuru graduates, it's not like she or Tsuruya have to leave the story entirely. There's at least one university in Nishinomiya. Actually, the author attended it in real life.

As for the presence of a time traveler, it's not like Big Mikuru isn't going to show up every so often and offer cryptic hints, ya know.
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Old 2008-05-25, 01:18   Link #1075
Sute443
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Originally Posted by BobaLunatic View Post
Haruhi would already know Kyon's name since he introduced himself with it at the beginning of the first year (unless she erased from her mind because he wasn't an alien/time traveller/esper lol).
I kind of think that she wasn't paying much attention to it because it was before he reminded her of John Smith. Of course we know that Suzumiya once knew Kyon's real name, since there's some dialogue between them in which she says something like "Kyon is more fun to say." But that was a long time ago story-wise, and really, how much effort does Suzumiya put into remembering stuff she doesn't think is fun?
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Old 2008-05-25, 01:27   Link #1076
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Sute443 View Post
I kind of think that she wasn't paying much attention to it because it was before he reminded her of John Smith. Of course we know that Suzumiya once knew Kyon's real name, since there's some dialogue between them in which she says something like "Kyon is more fun to say." But that was a long time ago story-wise, and really, how much effort does Suzumiya put into remembering stuff she doesn't think is fun?
They all know his real name. Koizumi uses it, and it's how Kyon normally introduces himself.

It's just being deliberately cut out of the dialogue.

Besides, I'm sure Kyon's teachers and parents don't call him that.
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Old 2008-05-25, 01:33   Link #1077
Kogetsu Shirogane
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I honestly expect that, if she really wanted to, Haruhi could probably make it so Mikuru ends up failing miserably and repeating the third year(it was actually stated as a possibility, albeit for second year)... of course, unless Haruhi realizes her true potential by then, she'll probably just pass it off as a rather beneficial coincidence.

And I'm still against the "slider girl"=Kyon's Sister thing, if not for what I mused about earlier, then only due to the fact that she'd also have to be temporally displaced... if anything, it's just a big red herring thrown in simply to confuse the hell out of people.
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Old 2008-05-25, 01:40   Link #1078
Kaisos Erranon
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And I'm still against the "slider girl"=Kyon's Sister thing, if not for what I mused about earlier, then only due to the fact that she'd also have to be temporally displaced... if anything, it's just a big red herring thrown in simply to confuse the hell out of people.
Maybe in the world she's from, she's the older sibling? Or maybe time flows faster?
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Old 2008-05-25, 02:00   Link #1079
Kogetsu Shirogane
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The only one of those ideas that seems feasible is the older sibling one. And even then, it seems a bit unlikely. I'm still of the believe that at the very least, the girl in the clubroom was a red herring.
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Old 2008-05-25, 02:03   Link #1080
Kaisos Erranon
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The only one of those ideas that seems feasible is the older sibling one. And even then, it seems a bit unlikely. I'm still of the believe that at the very least, the girl in the clubroom was a red herring.
No, no way she is. She's the girl who called Kyon on the phone and is probably partly responsible for the dimensional split.

Haruhi mentioned sliders waaay back when and Kyon's drawn attention to their lack of sliders several times, once in Vol. 9's prologue.

Also, she appeared out of nowhere.

She's most certainly a slider, and I'd be very surprised if she wasn't.
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