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Old 2008-05-29, 15:23   Link #61
Awakened
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Those of you that believe Irene is still alive, explain why Clare felt something from Irene arm right after Irene and Raphaela met?
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Old 2008-05-29, 15:24   Link #62
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So, who do we have to sacrifice to summon chapter 80? I volunter.
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Old 2008-05-29, 15:29   Link #63
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I suggest my friends little brother
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Old 2008-05-29, 15:45   Link #64
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To be clear, in the manga Irene was not concerned about her lack of arms, saying that fate makes its own plans or something like that (mainly as a reference to the fact that she didn't need to fight anymore, and the arm was given to someone who could make use of it). In the anime, she made the comment that even with both arms she'd probably have a tough time fighting Rafaela.

As for why Rafaela was there, it had been close to two weeks since Clare was supposed to have met up with Ophelia for the hunt (1 week asleep plus at least several days training), and no word had come back. Rubel undoubtedly had her go check things out. The only question is whether he had any particular standing orders for Rafaela regarding Irene, or if Rafaela was simply carrying out the existing execution order.

Rubel being one who plays his cards very close to his chest, I suspect he wouldn't be giving special orders that could easily be traced to him. He might give 'suggestions', though. While Rafaela generally seems to be pretty heartless aside from her issues with her sister, she was still relieved when she found out that Teresa didn't have a sister (and was thus not part of the soul link experiments). There are still a few small windows of opportunity to allow for Irene to still be alive, but we have nothing to either support or disprove whether those windows exist. Until then, Irene stays cuddled up with the cat, both alive and dead at the same time.
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Old 2008-05-29, 16:49   Link #65
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@ the doubters
my thinking is that someone of Irene's considerable power would be able to escape such a situation if she needed to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinematics View Post
Until then, Irene stays cuddled up with the cat, both alive and dead at the same time.
I LOLed when i read that, awesome use of Schroedinger's example
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Old 2008-05-29, 16:55   Link #66
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we've already seen what happens when a number two (plus three others) tries to fight the number one, or someone equal to a number one. Raphaela.
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Old 2008-05-29, 16:55   Link #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonova View Post
Fake spoiler from tsstory.com XD

Spoiler for size:
LOL So thats the big secret about where there claymore swords come from.
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Old 2008-05-29, 17:02   Link #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinak View Post
we've already seen what happens when a number two (plus three others) tries to fight the number one, or someone equal to a number one. Raphaela.
i didn't mean that Irene would be fighting (no argument that she without her arms would lose) but that Irene would have found some way to escape (given that she is also one of the most intelligent claymores, on par with Miria and Galatea id say)
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Old 2008-05-29, 17:17   Link #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awakened View Post
Those of you that believe Irene is still alive, explain why Clare felt something from Irene arm right after Irene and Raphaela met?
That could have been Irene dropping her yoki level so that she couldn't be senced by anyone in the org. Raphaela could of told her to do so, so she wouldn't have to kill her because Irene probably told her something valuable.

But then again she could be dead, but I hope not because Irene is one of my favourite charaters. I won't believe she is dead unless Raphaela shows up and says she killed her, or if Clare goes to look for Irene, because remember when Clare left Irene she said she would come back to give her back her arm.
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Old 2008-05-29, 17:36   Link #70
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LOL So thats the big secret about where there claymore swords come from.
Those evil Chinese. So they are behind the Org...

Just kidding. I'm also Chinese. Claymore is quite a hit in Hong Kong.
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Old 2008-05-29, 18:07   Link #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awakened View Post
Those of you that believe Irene is still alive, explain why Clare felt something from Irene arm right after Irene and Raphaela met?
That's because the arm sensed that its former master is under threat. What we do not know is what happens after that.
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Old 2008-05-29, 18:28   Link #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awakened View Post
Those of you that believe Irene is still alive, explain why Clare felt something from Irene arm right after Irene and Raphaela met?
There was an theory a long time saying that Irene Awakened or Half Awakended or something
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Old 2008-05-29, 18:47   Link #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awakened
Those of you that believe Irene is still alive, explain why Clare felt something from Irene arm right after Irene and Raphaela met?
Possibilities:
  1. Rafaela just killed Irene
  2. Rafaela just began her attack, and Irene's body reacted to the threat
  3. The arm is reacting to the presense of an awakened being (Ophelia)
  4. Irene just sealed her own youki
  5. Irene's youki was forcibly sealed by Rafaela (possible special technique?)
  6. Soul link/soul transfer - beyond sisters, beyond twins, the transfer of the soul to the only still-living portion of the body. Possibly assisted by Rafaela.

In all honesty, the real question is why is Irene's arm reacting to anything at all? It's been separated from the original body, and so there should be no way for anything affecting Irene to carry through to the arm. We accept it and try to find a cause, but what we should explain first is the effect. Only #'s 3 and 6 explain the effect as well as the cause.

There has been no indication since that time that the arm provides any sort of special sensitivity to youki, and that wasn't Irene's specialty anyway. It's highly unlikely that #3 is valid.

#6 just came to mind while making this list, and the possibility that Rafaela has some unusual techniques available to her due to her part in the experiment. We've never seen her fight, so have no idea of what she can really do.

Or it could be #1, and just simple dramatic effect.
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Old 2008-05-29, 19:10   Link #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinematics View Post
Possibilities:
  1. Rafaela just killed Irene
  2. Rafaela just began her attack, and Irene's body reacted to the threat
  3. The arm is reacting to the presense of an awakened being (Ophelia)
  4. Irene just sealed her own youki
  5. Irene's youki was forcibly sealed by Rafaela (possible special technique?)
  6. Soul link/soul transfer - beyond sisters, beyond twins, the transfer of the soul to the only still-living portion of the body. Possibly assisted by Rafaela.
I thought of another one:

What if Irene somehow managed to regenerate her arm really fast and it made the other one react to it because it was on someone else's body, then she started to fight Raphaela.

I think Irene's arm on Clare reacted because whatever happened to Irene, her yoki must of acted like a soul link between Irene and her arm, and mabye thats what Clare felt.
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Old 2008-05-29, 19:48   Link #75
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Hmmm. Irene's arm almost seems to have a mind of its own to some extent. Clare has asked for Irene's help in dire situations like with the youki manipulating AB in the north. It certainly maintains some of its original youki (or something like that) as it can still do the quicksword/windcutter and others can sense that it is borrowed. As the same AB said, "only her right arm is on a completely different level!?". Clare carries a piece of Irene with her on several levels. So I am not sure what reasoning the arm had to react. I think it was intentionally ambiguous but I am led to believe it has most to do with Irene's fate, whatever it may be. I also liked the cat comment for Irene.

It is interesting to note that we do not know exactly why Raphaela was there. Did they give her a hit list? If so how did she know Irene's youki? Or did she stumble upon her... Raphaela is really a fairly mysterious character as well as one that fascinates me. When she reappears, which she will, we will most likely be given some closure to what happened to Irene.
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Old 2008-05-29, 19:55   Link #76
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When Rapaheala comes back and see's Clare she'll probably say something like this. "Oh its you, you were the one that Irene gave her arm to. That was her name wasn't it? Or at least that was her name." Indicating that she killed Irene, or she is just trying to piss off Clare by saying something like that to make her think she is dead. Then Clare will go berserk just like she did in the anime when she was saying Teresa's name when she was getting angry at Priscilla except she will be saying Irene's name instead.
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Old 2008-05-29, 20:01   Link #77
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._.well i really hope that Yagi can just tell us if Irene is dead or alive lol cause this suspense is killing me o_O
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Old 2008-05-29, 20:04   Link #78
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I know what you mean, its been killing me sence Clare had that reaction in her arm. Thats a long time.
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Old 2008-05-29, 21:20   Link #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Lycan View Post
._.well i really hope that Yagi can just tell us if Irene is dead or alive lol cause this suspense is killing me o_O
No suspence. She's dead. Clare had no tea cup that could crack, so the hand twitch was the next best thing :P

It's quite obvious to those that read between the lines that Luciella ate Irene shortly after Raphaela, Luciella and Irene started travelling together after Isley fight. I mean, seriously, what else could Luciella eat? She wouldn't eat her sister!
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Old 2008-05-29, 21:23   Link #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinematics View Post
Possibilities:
  1. Rafaela just killed Irene
  2. Rafaela just began her attack, and Irene's body reacted to the threat
  3. The arm is reacting to the presense of an awakened being (Ophelia)
  4. Irene just sealed her own youki
  5. Irene's youki was forcibly sealed by Rafaela (possible special technique?)
  6. Soul link/soul transfer - beyond sisters, beyond twins, the transfer of the soul to the only still-living portion of the body. Possibly assisted by Rafaela.

#6 just came to mind while making this list, and the possibility that Rafaela has some unusual techniques available to her due to her part in the experiment. We've never seen her fight, so have no idea of what she can really do.

Or it could be #1, and just simple dramatic effect.

After thinking about it, I give Irene 50/50 chance of been alive.

At first I thought Irene was dead, but Rafaela using soul-link on Irene got me thinking.

1) Rafaela must be really heartless to kill someone with no arms.

2) Yagi has never been shy when it comes to killing a character, so why leave Irene fate unknown? He used that same trick after the war in the North, with Priscilla talking about lights going out.

So if Irene is alive Rafaela needed to seal her yoki so no one else finds her. If Irene is alive I think she has one of Rafaela's arms.
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