AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Claymore

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2008-05-29, 21:35   Link #81
Cyclone
Transient Guest
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canada
You know, I find this patently unfair to Luciella.
I think Luciella was as cool a character as Irene, if not more so. Her trash talk and inuendo to Isley was hilarious. Meanwhile Irene was the leader of the party responsible for Teresa's death - a crime beyond forgiveness.

Irene and Luciella have fates uncertain, but all anyone cares about is Irene. I mean, like, really... what wrong with everyone? Luciella *IS* prettier, *HAS* better fashion sense, and a much more like-able personality.

Besides, if Irene was truely sorry, she could have swapped legs with Clare too, for an added power up... but did she? Nooooooooo! I mean how selfish and self centered can you get?
Cyclone is offline  
Old 2008-05-29, 21:45   Link #82
Awakened
Clare's #1 fan
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Florida
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
You know, I find this patently unfair to Luciella.
I think Luciella was as cool a character as Irene, if not more so. Her trash talk and inuendo to Isley was hilarious. Meanwhile Irene was the leader of the party responsible for Teresa's death - a crime beyond forgiveness.

Irene and Luciella have fates uncertain, but all anyone cares about is Irene. I mean, like, really... what wrong with everyone? Luciella *IS* prettier, *HAS* better fashion sense, and a much more like-able personality.

Besides, if Irene was truely sorry, she could have swapped legs with Clare too, for an added power up... but did she? Nooooooooo! I mean how selfish and self centered can you get?
Sorry, but I think Luciella is dead. She lost all her yoki, so she is as was as weak as a human. No yoki equal no regeneration, no healing, no AB powers equal a dead Luciella.

Unlike Irene, we saw Luciella's lifeless arm falling to her sister’s side.


lol, Clare does not need Irene's legs, she need Miria's. PHANTOM CLARE
__________________
Miria is alive
Awakened is offline  
Old 2008-05-29, 22:23   Link #83
Cyclone
Transient Guest
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by Awakened View Post
Sorry, but I think Luciella is dead. She lost all her yoki, so she is as was as weak as a human. No yoki equal no regeneration, no healing, no AB powers equal a dead Luciella.

Unlike Irene, we saw Luciella's lifeless arm falling to her sisterís side.


lol, Clare does not need Irene's legs, she need Miria's. PHANTOM CLARE
In your list of "no"s you forgot a couple important ones: 1) NO injury! and with Raphaela being the party involved it's likely that 2) NO ONE WILLING TO KILL HER.

Luciella's alive. More so than some NO name rookie (to Raphaela at least) with NO arms and NO reason to be left alive... like say... Irene at least. Or do you get the impression that Raphaela, the Org's cleanup crew, often disobeyed orders about killing those she was sent to erase?
Cyclone is offline  
Old 2008-05-29, 22:43   Link #84
weirdo487
Kousokuken!
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Its not that Raphaela didn't try, its just that Irene (who needs to be able to move on par with Miria (over short distances at least) to use the flash sword) could probably use that speed to haul butt some where she was safe. And the arm could have been reacting to that instead of her death. and if thats not how she got away then she managed some how ( as i said she is in my opinion one of the smarter claymores and thus probably had an escape route.)
__________________
master of the world to come
weirdo487 is offline  
Old 2008-05-30, 01:03   Link #85
NoSanninWa
Weapon of Mass Discussion
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York, USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinematics View Post
In all honesty, the real question is why is Irene's arm reacting to anything at all?
Everyone is paying way too much attention to this. Asking why Irene's arm reacts to anything is like asking why dishes break or pictures fall from tables when someone is in trouble. I'm sure you've all seen an anime or ten where someone gets such an intimation of doom when a beloved person is harmed. This is exactly the same thing. It's just an arm twinge instead of a broken teacup.

Her arm feels a twinge because its original owner is harmed simply because that makes sense when viewed through a lens of Japanese folklore.
__________________

There's not that fine a line between willing suspension of disbelief and something just being stupid.
NoSanninWa is offline  
Old 2008-05-30, 01:07   Link #86
yezhanquan
Observer/Bookman wannabe
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 29
*clap hands* NSW sure helped clear that up among the newbies.

Anyway, no luck with the Chinese subs at point of writing. The wait continues.
yezhanquan is offline  
Old 2008-05-30, 02:27   Link #87
Kinematics
Let's play a game!
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
@NSW:

As I said, it could simply be dramatic effect. However, how often does Yagi employ such cliches?

I think I might remember a single "sneezing when someone's talking about you" moment in the entire run of Angel Densetsu (and I'm not entirely sure about that; memory's a bit fuzzy). Yagi seems to assiduously avoid a lot of the common cliches in anime, part of what I love about his work. In any other series I'd dismiss it as just such a gimmick. In Claymore, though, there seems to be a reason for everything that happens, and a very solid grounding in the realism of his world. As such, I'm not entirely willing to disbelieve that there might be some alternate purpose for it.

In any case, I've run through just about everything I can speculate about over the last few weeks, and very few seem willing to argue counterpoints against me (though I'm very grateful to those who keep the discussions going in other ways). I'll allow for an "Irene is dead until blatantly shown otherwise" conclusion based on the cliche effect if you can show at least a few more samples of such writing (not just this technique, but any general cliche fallback) in the series for me. Otherwise I'll leave her in the "probably dead, but waiting for some real proof" box.
Kinematics is offline  
Old 2008-05-30, 04:27   Link #88
NoSanninWa
Weapon of Mass Discussion
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York, USA
A cliche can be used without being overused. I'm quite convinced that the reason for the twinge is rooted in the Japanese belief that people are connected regardless of distance.

It doesn't prove anything though. I agree that she is in the "probably dead, but waiting for some real proof" box. Even if the twinge in the arm was the equivalent of a broken picture frame all it implies is that Irene was in danger of her life, not necessarily that she died.
__________________

There's not that fine a line between willing suspension of disbelief and something just being stupid.
NoSanninWa is offline  
Old 2008-05-30, 05:49   Link #89
Sleepy Speculator
sleepy
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Marshland
Can't everyone just agree to disagree...

@Cyclone, i hear what your saying

But to help i'd say the quantum nature of all of this means the box schrodinger put his cat in is getting pretty crowded, since Irene and Luciella are in there too, oh well at least it won't get lonely...

Irene can't have Rapheala's arms, she's an offensive type, she'd have no arms herself if she gave them to Irene, even one would be noticably missing when she later met Clare and Jean, and she's not likely to say anything about Irene cos she didn't even seem to put two and two together when she met that time as to why Clare's arm was different, or to the fact that Clare's yoki signature had been in the area where she 'killed' Irene, and she still had to ask which of the two claymores was Clare.
__________________
Everything i've said up to now is speculation... remember that.

Biki Biki Biki Biki... (raaarrrggghhh!!! i need some coffee!)
Sleepy Speculator is offline  
Old 2008-05-30, 11:25   Link #90
King Lycan
User Title eaten by ravenous bunnies
*IT Support
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Zeon
Age: 23
._. you guys are saying that Raph gave Irene her arms...um we saw her when she gave her sister the fatal huge
__________________
King Lycan is online now  
Old 2008-05-30, 11:34   Link #91
Awakened
Clare's #1 fan
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Florida
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Lycan View Post
._. you guys are saying that Raph gave Irene her arms...um we saw her when she gave her sister the fatal huge
She could have given it to her after she huged her sister.
__________________
Miria is alive
Awakened is offline  
Old 2008-05-30, 12:08   Link #92
King Lycan
User Title eaten by ravenous bunnies
*IT Support
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Zeon
Age: 23
._. she killed irene first
__________________
King Lycan is online now  
Old 2008-05-30, 14:17   Link #93
racjona
Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: somewhere in space
Age: 31
that's right - Irene kaputt
Raphaela's and Luciella's status of living are not confirmed
hope they're alive and show us their possibilities soon
racjona is offline  
Old 2008-05-30, 14:54   Link #94
chibamonster
'S' Class Fairy Tail
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
I put Raphaela living right now at 100%. Yagi has even mentioned her several times to remind us that she is still in the story for foreshadowing reasons (I think). The ghosts mention that Raphaela might be able to locate them. They call her the other claymore who can suppress her youki but that means Raphaela. Then the MiB's mentioned that they no longer have use of Raphaela. Could mean her death but I do not think so.

As for Luciella I would not mind seeing her again. She had pretty hair and a cool dress which makes Riful's potato sack look pathetic in comparison. She was witty like Riful and defeated Isley in verbal kung fu. For a relatively minor character she got quite a nice entrance and exit from the story. Clean cut finish. As of right now there is nothing she still has to do in the story as all her ends are tied up. Her story was the motivation behind Raphaela; a much more important character to the series. I do not expect to see her again but could be pleasantly surprised.

As for Irene I would not mind seeing her leather clad elf yoda like self again. She seems more likely to be alive than Luciella for me because she did not get a visual death scene but I am not holding my breath for her. If yagi brings her back I am sure he would do it in a good way.
__________________
Tests for my graphic novel -> http://dragonfury0.deviantart.com/ <-
chibamonster is offline  
Old 2008-05-30, 15:59   Link #95
tenken627
what Yagi said
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
I don't know about Irene surviving. Her words at the camp fire seemed to be ominous, that Clare staying alive will be the only proof that Teresa ever existed.

Priscilla barely knew Teresa, Raphaela barely knew Teresa, and every other Claymore from that time is long dead.

Besides the MiBs, only Clare and Irene would be considered to have spent some time with Teresa and know her somewhat. Now, it would only be Clare.

The current ranks like Audrey, Miata, Clarice, probably do not know who Teresa is. Even the older ranks like Galatea, Helen, Miria and Deneve probably have only heard of Teresa in tales or myths or they may never have heard of Teresa at all as well, which is kinda sad considering how powerful Teresa was.

Last edited by tenken627; 2008-05-30 at 16:31.
tenken627 is offline  
Old 2008-05-30, 17:01   Link #96
chibamonster
'S' Class Fairy Tail
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Raphaela met Teresa and knows something about her, but apparently did not make the connection between Clare's youki and Teresa's youki when she met her. Irene so far has been the only person to piece together Clare's past and all that from knowing Teresa from before. Sensing Teresa in Clare drew her out of hiding. I do not think anyone else even knows that Clare is not 1/2 youma. I doubt that most members of the organization know about Priscilla either. Many knew about the 3 abyssals but no one, including the abyssals knew about Priscilla until they met her.
__________________
Tests for my graphic novel -> http://dragonfury0.deviantart.com/ <-
chibamonster is offline  
Old 2008-05-30, 17:15   Link #97
tenken627
what Yagi said
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Well to be fair, Irene did know Teresa for a long time it seems. Raphaela only briefly met Teresa while she was a child.

Irene may have seen Teresa as a rival, and may not even have liked her much during their Claymore days. But, she deeply respected Teresa. And Irene genuinely sounded pleased that Teresa was happy with Clare, if only for a brief time. At least Teresa had something, even if Irene herself had nothing.

Irene knew beforehand that the moment she uses Quicksword to teach Clare, she would be hunted and killed. And yet, not only did she teach Clare, she also willingly gave her only arm, when she knew that she was being hunted. Deep down inside, why would she do that?

I believe Irene didn't do it for herself or Clare. She did it for Teresa. And it meant more to her than her own life.


About anyone knowing Clare is 1/2 yoma, I'm not sure. The other trainee that bullied Clare knew that she had Teresa's flesh in her. Other trainees at that time probably knew as well.

But, that was a long time ago, with all of them dead. Galatea, Miria, Helen, and Deneve all seemed to be Claymores already when Clare was in training, so they probably wouldn't have heard about that kind of experiment. None of the new Claymores would know.
tenken627 is offline  
Old 2008-05-30, 19:05   Link #98
MalakTawus
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Italy
I think Irene is alive because:
1.She could have made a deal with Raph
2.She can't beat Raph without arms,but I'm sure she could easily escape(it's very possible:come on!Riful is way stronger than Raph,but Helen and Denev could escape from her!.....and we all know that they are no match for her.....moral:if you are stonger you can win the battle, but only IF you are enought fast to corner the enemy into the battle.Irene has no arms but HAS legs.....).

About Claire,i bet in the future we'll find out that in reality she is hiding her real powers(Teresa's powers maybe...).If she has to kill Priscilla she has to aweken her real strenght,there's no training that can make her strong enought if she has no potential.....and she obviously has that......
MalakTawus is offline  
Old 2008-05-30, 19:23   Link #99
Cyclone
Transient Guest
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by chibamonster View Post
As for Luciella I would not mind seeing her again. She had pretty hair and a cool dress which makes Riful's potato sack look pathetic in comparison. She was witty like Riful and defeated Isley in verbal kung fu. For a relatively minor character she got quite a nice entrance and exit from the story. Clean cut finish. As of right now there is nothing she still has to do in the story as all her ends are tied up. Her story was the motivation behind Raphaela; a much more important character to the series. I do not expect to see her again but could be pleasantly surprised.
I'm not exactly betting the house on it either, but I don't think her role is over. You said on several occassions that the soul link with Raphaela will come into play again, I think. With who did you mean? Clare?
I find it unlikely that Clare - no matter how special - could learn to soul link with Raphaela (nor after finding out about Irene would she probably want to). Soul link was something both sets of sisters were taught since early childhood, and for anyone else to master it within the course of a week seems impossible.
So if you want to see Raphaella do a soul link, then Luciella will have to be alive.

Now that I think about it though - maybe we're looking at the whole soul link thing wrong. Afterall, as cool as it be to watch the Alica v. Luciella fight, there is probably more to it than that. What if soul link holds the secret to something else - like getting rid of that pesky flesh eating habbit ABs have. It could provide a means of de-threatifying those that do over their limits - even without returning.
Cyclone is offline  
Old 2008-05-30, 20:53   Link #100
Torri_fay_torren@hot
Former # 47
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In the forgotten past
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenken627 View Post

About anyone knowing Clare is 1/2 yoma, I'm not sure. The other trainee that bullied Clare knew that she had Teresa's flesh in her. Other trainees at that time probably knew as well.

But, that was a long time ago, with all of them dead. Galatea, Miria, Helen, and Deneve all seemed to be Claymores already when Clare was in training, so they probably wouldn't have heard about that kind of experiment. None of the new Claymores would know.
Tenken I'm somewhat confused. How did the other Claymores know that she was only 1/4 a Claymore. I had assumed that they just knew that she was very weak, which was obvious to anyone. The organisation makes failures sometimes. Several people have mentioned it. So why would they think that Clare was any different then a normal failure? Her hair even changed color she was just weak. That Clare was 1/4 Claymore seems to have been some secret. Thats what I got at least. And even if it wasn't, Clare would not mention it.
__________________
I am not obsessed with Claymore. I just can't stop reading it. There's nothing wrong with that right?
Torri_fay_torren@hot is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
manga

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 13:41.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.