AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series > Fate/ Series

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2008-05-31, 06:06   Link #1961
rastilin
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Quote:
Is twelve trials a passive or an active noble phantasm?
Passive

Quote:
Since archer fighting technique is based on the noble phantasm he use then is it safe to say his skill is determined by that too?
Not necessarily. He can wake the memories of a weapon to get it's skills, but by this point he has a few skills of his own. His skill is determined by his weapon in the sense that he's only trained with a few.

Quote:
How strong is a rank-d mana resistance?
It'll block Rin's Gand magic completely and weaken higher level techniques.
rastilin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-31, 06:18   Link #1962
Blade_Lord
Lord of Blades
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: in Unlimited Blade Works
Age: 23
Quote:
It'll block Rin's Gand magic completely and weaken higher level techniques.
Will servant of D-rank mana resistance be instantly petrified by Rider petrification eyes?
__________________

Emiya Shirou,the Counter Guardian.
Blade_Lord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-31, 07:11   Link #1963
rastilin
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Quote:
Will servant of D-rank mana resistance be instantly petrified by Rider petrification eyes?
Normally yes but Archer's immune. Or at least somewhat immune, powerful magii are highly resistant to Rider's petrification and True Assasin's instant kill. It's worth noting that Saber, who has magic resistance of A (almost no magic can touch her), takes full effect. So Mystic eyes might bypass magic resistance.
rastilin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-31, 08:28   Link #1964
iamandragon
Martian diplomat
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mars
Send a message via ICQ to iamandragon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade_Lord View Post
How strong is a rank-d mana resistance?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rastilin View Post
It'll block Rin's Gand magic completely and weaken higher level techniques.
Actually...rank D only nullifies 'single-action' shot magic. Gand magic is an example of it, however Rin's magic itself is so high that her gand actually his an output of a two-count magic--rank D can block a normal magi's gand, but probably not Rin's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade_Lord View Post
Will servant of D-rank mana resistance be instantly petrified by Rider petrification eyes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rastilin View Post
Normally yes but Archer's immune. Or at least somewhat immune, powerful magii are highly resistant to Rider's petrification and True Assasin's instant kill. It's worth noting that Saber, who has magic resistance of A (almost no magic can touch her), takes full effect. So Mystic eyes might bypass magic resistance.
Not instantly, but slowly. If Rider keeps her eye open Archer will eventually be petrified. However this has nothing to do with magic resistance, but mana.

Qubeley takes effect to the extreme if both Rider and victim's eyes make contact, however even if the victim keeps their eyes closed, Qubeley will still take effect at a slower rate. Archer was able to avoid being petrified instantly because he managed to come to a conclusion 'close eyes!' with his Mind's Eye.

Spoiler for True Assassin:
iamandragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-31, 21:51   Link #1965
OceanBlue
Not an expert on things
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
I came across an interesting idea while lurking in Koichan.

Quote:
>I don't think Archer was in love with Saber in his time.

Actually, he was. The prologue part in Fate/Stay Night is Archer's monologue!! (The ones about how beautiful Saber was and the part he could remember after being sent to hell. Makes me cry.) Nasu said it an interview for Fate/Hollow Ataraxia.
Quote:
>Nasu said it an interview for Fate/Hollow Ataraxia.

It was from his diary, Takebouki. My bad.
The monologue about Saber in this scene is actually Archer's memory. That made me cry...Archer is in "hell" and he still remembers that time he met Saber.
Was anyone else aware of this? Can someone else confirm this? It gives an interesting piece of evidence towards when Archer regained his memories.
OceanBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-05-31, 22:18   Link #1966
iamandragon
Martian diplomat
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mars
Send a message via ICQ to iamandragon
Quote:
Originally Posted by OceanBlue View Post
I came across an interesting idea while lurking in Koichan.





Was anyone else aware of this? Can someone else confirm this? It gives an interesting piece of evidence towards when Archer regained his memories.
That's only assuming if he really lost his memories...but yes the rest is in the right...
iamandragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-01, 03:34   Link #1967
alamarco
Why hello there!
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Canada
Do you guys have a link to this diary or FAQ, preferably translated? I'm about to start UBW so I won't be reading it right away, but I'd love to read it sometime after.
alamarco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-01, 05:36   Link #1968
Blade_Lord
Lord of Blades
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: in Unlimited Blade Works
Age: 23
Quote:
Qubeley takes effect to the extreme if both Rider and victim's eyes make contact, however even if the victim keeps their eyes closed, Qubeley will still take effect at a slower rate. Archer was able to avoid being petrified instantly because he managed to come to a conclusion 'close eyes!' with his Mind's Eye.
Uhh Qubeley?

Can archer counter Rider Bellerophon?

I got this from wikipedia:

* Protection from Arrows

Rank: B
Improved defense against ranged attacks due to accurate prediction of its trajectory by extraordinaire means such as hearing the sound of the projectile cutting the wind or feeling the enemy's killing intent. At the current level, as long as the shooter is within his field of vision, Lancer can track down the shot with his eyes and defend against it. This does not apply to attacks from super long range or that have a large area-of-effect.

So if archer want to kill lancer in lancer field of vision he should kill him with a broken phantasm caladbolg 2?I ask this because caladbolg 2 have a wide range of effect.

Quote:
Not necessarily. He can wake the memories of a weapon to get it's skills, but by this point he has a few skills of his own. His skill is determined by his weapon in the sense that he's only trained with a few.
So that mean he got a few skill + the skill awakens from using that noble phantasm?

Can archer fight on par with a servant by tracing the servant's noble phantasm(assuming it can be traced) and use it against that servant?
__________________

Emiya Shirou,the Counter Guardian.
Blade_Lord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-01, 06:13   Link #1969
rastilin
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Quote:
Uhh Qubeley?
Rider's mystic eyes are called Qubeley.

Quote:
Can archer counter Rider Bellerophon?
One would assume he has something, Hrunting might do the job. Or trapping Rider inside the reality marble and just filling the air with millions of swords. If nothing else works, Excalibur would do it.

Quote:
So if archer want to kill lancer in lancer field of vision he should kill him with a broken phantasm caladbolg 2?I ask this because caladbolg 2 have a wide range of effect.
Yes, but not for that reason. Lancer has sworn to be killed by Caldbolg. His ancient promise still binds him to die by that sword, even if it's fired from a bow.

Quote:
Can archer fight on par with a servant by tracing the servant's noble phantasm(assuming it can be traced) and use it against that servant?
Probably not. I'm not sure how complete the information transfer would be, but stat wise Archer's ranked pretty low, he'd get hammered. On the other hand, the shock from seeing their priceless irreplaceable weapon appear in the hands of the enemy would be worth something.
rastilin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-01, 07:06   Link #1970
iamandragon
Martian diplomat
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mars
Send a message via ICQ to iamandragon
Quote:
Originally Posted by alamarco View Post
Do you guys have a link to this diary or FAQ, preferably translated? I'm about to start UBW so I won't be reading it right away, but I'd love to read it sometime after.
Diary? Directory? Don't think we even have one...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade_Lord View Post
Can archer counter Rider Bellerophon?
Depends. Like rastilin said, there has to be a way...

Quote:
So if archer want to kill lancer in lancer field of vision he should kill him with a broken phantasm caladbolg 2?I ask this because caladbolg 2 have a wide range of effect.
Well that's why he's been slashing away with a sword like mad. Now that you remind it, isn't Lancer cheating when he asked Archer to fire arrows in the prologue?
Actually it's still possible to shoot Lancer--if Archer can manage to have millions of swords rain down on Lancer the way Gilgamesh do, it'll be all over. His ability 'protection from arrow' actually simply enhances his senses against projectiles so he can deflect them. But if the arrow is simply un-deflect-able/avoid-able...

Quote:
So that mean he got a few skill + the skill awakens from using that noble phantasm?
Quite right, but not so--Archer can choose to awaken the memories from the blade, but he'd rather not, as the weapon's memories sometimes get in the way.

Quote:
Can archer fight on par with a servant by tracing the servant's noble phantasm(assuming it can be traced) and use it against that servant?
Archer will loose if they match head on with plain brute force due to the de-rank of his Noble Phantasm. That's what Mind's Eye for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rastilin View Post
On the other hand, the shock from seeing their priceless irreplaceable weapon appear in the hands of the enemy would be worth something.
Poor Gilgamesh...
iamandragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-01, 08:32   Link #1971
rastilin
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Quote:
Well that's why he's been slashing away with a sword like mad. Now that you remind it, isn't Lancer cheating when he asked Archer to fire arrows in the prologue?
I always thought that Archer was just messing with him, like he does in UBW. Because from what I've heard, in HF Archer takes him out in a single shot from his bow at close range. Using the "Fake Spiral Sword". It's specifically mentioned that Lancer is destined to be killed by that sword.
rastilin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-01, 09:17   Link #1972
Blade_Lord
Lord of Blades
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: in Unlimited Blade Works
Age: 23
Quote:
I always thought that Archer was just messing with him, like he does in UBW. Because from what I've heard, in HF Archer takes him out in a single shot from his bow at close range. Using the "Fake Spiral Sword". It's specifically mentioned that Lancer is destined to be killed by that sword.
Then how come Archer got hold up by Lancer if he's that easy to beat in Unlimited Blade Works. I mean he could just leap back, trace his bow and caladbolg 2 and snipe it at Lancer. End of story.
__________________

Emiya Shirou,the Counter Guardian.
Blade_Lord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-01, 09:21   Link #1973
rastilin
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Well, because he was messing with him. Why only use swords at all, why not whack out the Reality Marble instead of blocking Lancer's NP and just walking away, because he wanted to stall things until it was time to stop fighting.
rastilin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-01, 09:26   Link #1974
Blade_Lord
Lord of Blades
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: in Unlimited Blade Works
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by rastilin View Post
Well, because he was messing with him. Why only use swords at all, why not whack out the Reality Marble instead of blocking Lancer's NP and just walking away, because he wanted to stall things until it was time to stop fighting.
Why did he want to stall things, isn't he on caster side? Then again he betrays caster...what is archer planning anyway??
__________________

Emiya Shirou,the Counter Guardian.
Blade_Lord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-01, 09:26   Link #1975
Village Idiot
Fate/ Stay Night
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Quote:
Can archer fight on par with a servant by tracing the servant's noble phantasm(assuming it can be traced) and use it against that servant?
In a fight with Archer only using his opponents weapon(s), no for the following reasons:

1) His traced weapons are all one rank downgraded (unless he broken phantasms them).
2) Even though he can possess his opponents skills, Archer have very low stats, so he'll almost always be inferior to his opponent.
3) He's an Archer, and specializes in long range combat. Whereas he can fight another Archer in the same playing field, if he tries to fight a non-Archer using their style, he'll have to fight against them with all their advantages, whereas he wouldn't have them.
4) Like Gilgamesh, he's an "owner", not a "welder".

Though like Gilgamesh, he'll likely possess a Noble Phantasm that his enemy hero is weak against and use it to take them out.

I'm not sure though if he has Enkido in his UBW though, if he did, he could use it to immobolize divine-type opponents.

Quote:
Can archer counter Rider Bellerophon?
Maybe with Hrunting, though he'll probably try using Harpe before Rider uses Bellerphon (According to legend, Medusa was killed via Harpe)

Quote:
Why did he want to stall things, isn't he on caster side? Then again he betrays caster...what is archer planning anyway??
The only reason he didn't kill Caster right off the bat during their first encounter was because he wanted Caster to Rule Breaker him and sever his contract with Rin. Rin's first accidental use of her command mantra forces Archer to obey her orders. Then it was just finding an opportune moment to join Caster.

His original plan was to kill figure out a way to kill Shirou, let Saber make a contract with Rin, then probably help Rin win the war by helping Saber take out Gilgamesh out of nowhere when the time was right.
__________________
Sig removed by Mod (xris) because at 65,726 bytes it exceeds the limits as requested in the forum rules.
Village Idiot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-01, 09:29   Link #1976
Blade_Lord
Lord of Blades
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: in Unlimited Blade Works
Age: 23
Quote:
I'm not sure though if he has Enkido in his UBW though, if he did, he could use it to immobolize divine-type opponents.
Firstly it's enkidu, and archer don't have it or else beating Berserker will be a piece of cake. How?
First enkidu, then use Unlimited Blade Work, then trace Excallibur, change it into broken noble phantasm and use excallibur beam at Berserker or snipe him with it instead.
__________________

Emiya Shirou,the Counter Guardian.
Blade_Lord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-01, 09:41   Link #1977
rastilin
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
He could have, but using Excalibur in that situation would have hit Illiya, there's lots of things he could have done. He wouldn't need UBW to create Excalibur either, he uses Rio Aius without UBW and that too is a NP.

Quote:
His original plan was to kill figure out a way to kill Shirou, let Saber make a contract with Rin, then probably help Rin win the war by helping Saber take out Gilgamesh out of nowhere when the time was right.
That's pretty much right however I doubt he'd plan to do anything after killing Shirou. His plan was to kill Shirou and cause a time paradox that would require his erasure from the throne of heroes to heal. There wasn't supposed to be any "After Shirou". Later he realizes that reality is too resilient for this to occur and the required paradox simply wouldn't happen.

EDIT: When I was choosing my avatar, I found this...

Spoiler for Archer:


But it just seemed too cruel.
rastilin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-01, 09:59   Link #1978
iamandragon
Martian diplomat
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mars
Send a message via ICQ to iamandragon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Village Idiot View Post
The only reason he didn't kill Caster right off the bat during their first encounter was because he wanted Caster to Rule Breaker him and sever his contract with Rin. Rin's first accidental use of her command mantra forces Archer to obey her orders. Then it was just finding an opportune moment to join Caster.
He broken the contract off with Rin because Rin ordered him 'do not attack Shirou and Saber' so he as long as Rin is her master, he cannot accomplish his goals by killing Shirou.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade_Lord View Post
Firstly it's enkidu, and archer don't have it or else beating Berserker will be a piece of cake. How?
First enkidu, then use Unlimited Blade Work, then trace Excallibur, change it into broken noble phantasm and use excallibur beam at Berserker or snipe him with it instead.
Unleashing Excalibur itself drains Acher's mana completely in a way that he disappears immediately. Not to mention that Broken Phantasm breaks the weapon instantly like a bomb without unleashing its power. And you're thinking of him use enkidu, UBW, Excali-beam PLUS broken phantasm? No overtime pay will cut that!
And not to mention Archer doesn't want Illya die...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rastilin View Post
EDIT: When I was choosing my avatar, I found this...

Spoiler for Archer:
KYAAAAAAAAAA!

Archeeeeeeeer! Sooooooo cuuuuuute!

*hugs rastilin*
iamandragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-01, 10:03   Link #1979
Blade_Lord
Lord of Blades
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: in Unlimited Blade Works
Age: 23
Quote:
Unleashing Excalibur itself drains Acher's mana completely in a way that he disappears immediately. Not to mention that Broken Phantasm breaks the weapon instantly like a bomb without unleashing its power. And you're thinking of him use enkidu, UBW, Excali-beam PLUS broken phantasm? No overtime pay will cut that!
And not to mention Archer doesn't want Illya die..
So your saying archer would've kick Berserker ** if his master isn't Illya??

BTW can archer traced enkidu? your saying it as if he can use them.
__________________

Emiya Shirou,the Counter Guardian.
Blade_Lord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-01, 10:16   Link #1980
rastilin
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Since Eknidu is an object and tracing can reproduce any object then a sufficiently empowered mage could trace Eknidu. But that mage would pay the full mana cost, whatever that cost happened to be. Same for Archer, he'd have to pay something like 50 times the normal cost of summoning a sword NP.

Quote:
Unleashing Excalibur itself drains Acher's mana completely in a way that he disappears immediately. Not to mention that Broken Phantasm breaks the weapon instantly like a bomb without unleashing its power. And you're thinking of him use enkidu, UBW, Excali-beam PLUS broken phantasm? No overtime pay will cut that!
And not to mention Archer doesn't want Illya die...
Excalibur probably won't completely nuke Archer's mana. He has about as much mana as Saber and it takes up something like 2/3rd her total, so if he's on full it probably won't kill him. Also UBW takes up almost no mana in the scheme of things, Archer uses it when he's almost tapped out after his fight with Lancer and then he sticks around for two more days.
rastilin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:51.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.