Kure-nai

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Benika states clearly that she only intended for Murasaki to remain outside for a while, long enough so that she will be changed before she returns. I don't know what Benika expects the result of this change will be, though, if she has any expectations at all. Perhaps she kidnapped Murasaki solely for money, though I had a sense there was some deeper relationship between Benika and Murasaki's mother. Benika obviously has a history with Renjou; perhaps she met the mother when visiting him. I sense both hostility and commonality in their quite powerful scene together.

Let's give Benika the benefit of the doubt and ask why she might have sent Shinkarou and Murasaki (and Yayoi for that matter) to their obvious fate. Perhaps she has a longer-term view than just whether Murasaki is removed from the apartment. She might want to force Shinkarou to experience a complete defeat as the protector of someone he's so obviously grown to cherish. Benika might think that event would force Shinkarou to grow and become more useful to her in the future. Maybe she expects that he'll decide to complete his mission to protect Murasaki by freeing her again on his own accord. That would be consistent with her willingness to bet on Shinkarou. I don't know what's in her mind, but I doubt she has many altruistic strands to her character. Perhaps she, too, sees Murasaki as a tool, one that can help perfect her "precious pupil."

I think I've taken a more positive approach towards the action of Benika if I were to quote myself from before.

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

I believe that is was a serious miscalculation on her part. Like I've mentioned before she probably put way too much faith in Shinkurou, so much so that she was even willing to make a bet with Renjou. But look at it another way. I think another reason why Benika allowed Shinkurou to take Murasaki back for a last goodbye as it were, was that she wanted this to be a test for shinkurou (and Murasaki).

Think of it as a test in life. Shinkurou has never experienced the need to protect someone like this before and so Benika is helping him "grow up" through experience effectively. So by allowing him to make the choice of whether to fight back or not and then sholving his own messups, she is being a lot more than just someone who gives out orders and I think that is rather deep for Benika, we know that she is an intelligent woman.

From what I've seen I believe that Benika is more of a motherly figure for Shinkurou. Where Shinkurou has needed the guidance, she seems to be the one who can give him the most support but in the end it is up to him to carry out what he believes is right. I would also say that Benika seems like that Type to have a completely different outside image to her inside one so it can work either way, though I would like to think that she is one of the "good guys". She is complex as a character but her appearence so far has led me to believe that she cares for Shinkurou and doesn't just him like a tool. Though her method is what you would call "tough love" ~ the best way to grow up is to just dump them into the deep end as they were.

As for the bet and those heavy words towards Renjou, I tend to see them as more of a provoke for him. She doesn't like her and he doesn't like him, there isn't any need to be kind to one another when you could jsut stab them with heavy words. Hence what I think is that her words carry no reflection towards what she thinks and is marely a jab at the opposition (we see this happen everyday ).

[DragoonKain3]

And here I thought Benika was the most transparent of all the characters in eps 9.

Reason why she let Murasaki back in the apartment? Because Shinkurou has shown his own will.

Originally Posted by Benika, eps 9

Shinkurou himself said he wanted to do it. It was rare, but he gave me his own opinion... [The job] might be impossible for him, depending on who the Kuhoins send... Even so, I will believe in Shinkurou.

Sometimes, the simplest explanation is the right one. She let Kurenai take Murasaki back to the apartment because he simply convinced her to do so.

Do note that believing in others doing what they will also is repeated with Yayoi. There is a reason why she asked 'If any enemy appears before me, it's my job to fight them, right?' After that, she mentions she will be in her usual spot, giving evidence that she isn't sent there by Benika as an order, but that because she herself wants to protect Murasaki. (Yayoi makes a good foil to Kurenai btw, as even though both are protecting Murasaki because of their own free will, Kurenai does it more because of it's his duty while Yayoi is the opposite)

So yeah, there is no greater conspiracy here within Benika. Renjou already said that Ryuuji was already on his way, thus implying that Ryuuji went out to get Murasaki back before Benika even arrived. After all, the Kuhoins did NOT know Benika already planned for the two to leave the country the next day, and as such they might have very well planned to get Murasaki back for good that night.

If it's anyone to blame, it would be Shinkurou, since he was the one who brought the subject of going back to the apartment, and he was the one who convinced Benika to let him do so. I mean yeah, Benika was easier to convince because she hasn't planned for Murasaki to be forever outside, but in the end it's really Shinkurou who allowed Murasaki in danger because of sentimental reasons.

Originally Posted by aliasxn

Well, the poor woman didn't have much of a choice...

Doesn't change the fact that she was willing and happy to bear Renjou's children. If that is considered rape, then one might as well consider all the arranged marriages in the world as rape as well.

[Chrono Helix]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

For me, one of the high points of episode 8 was this scene where Yayoi asks Benika whether Murasaki can visit the shrine. We find Benika deep in the middle of torturing some anonymous guy for unspecified reasons. It just reinforced the notion that despite being both beautiful and intelligent, and despite being Ginko's and Shinkarou's savior and the latter's employer, and despite her apparently having rescued Murasaki from a horrible fate, Benika is still engaged in some very dark activities. For me the jury's still out on Benika and whether she's a "good," or perhaps at best a "not so evil" character.

That scene made me immediately think of Balalaika from Black Lagoon.

[MakubeX2]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Doesn't change the fact that she was willing and happy to bear Renjou's children. If that is considered rape, then one might as well consider all the arranged marriages in the world as rape as well.

Whether the Kuhouin female were subjected to rape is a touchy subject. The fact that they, according to the novel, were kept in the inner sanctum since birth, seperated from the world.

They recieve no formal education and were taught and conditioned to be be submissive to the male Kuhouin since young and likewise do the same to any other female offspring. The more rebellion and awared ones were subjected to drugs as well as more severe form of brainwashing.

But on the positive side, they were treated as valueable resources and not to be touch except for procreational purposes. So they are not exactly sex slaves.

[vio5555]

Originally Posted by MakubeX2

Whether the Kuhouin female were subjected to rape is a touchy subject. The fact that they, according to the novel, were kept in the inner sanctum since birth, seperated from the world.

They recieve no formal education and were taught and conditioned to be be submissive to the male Kuhouin since young and likewise do the same to any other female offspring. The more rebellion and awared ones were subjected to drugs as well as more severe form of brainwashing.

But on the positive side, they were treated as valueable resources and not to be touch except for procreational purposes. So they are not exactly sex slaves.

Legally it probably doesn't pass muster for rape in the current generations.

The Kuhouins seem to be following the age of consent laws (if it is 13 in that area), and it seemed as if the girls consent knowing that it is their place in society regardless of how narrow their worldview or education is. Souju seemed to have consented since she loved him, but with Murasaki that might be far more questionable since she seems to love Shinkurou as kids her age love...

Overall, I don't know how positive a spin you can really put on it considering that they do seem to be mistreated by the actual wives in some sense as in Souju being abused. Like Benika did say, all of the women are tools of sorts; the actual wives are usually probably jealous of the Kuhouin women and the Kuhouin women don't get to raise their children as their own.

Each of the women gets a "half" of the marriage in some sense (childrearing vs childbearing), and in exchange they get the safety and security of the Kuhouins' resources. The main difference is that the woman marrying in gets the dowry aspect (of political/economic connections etc.) as well as the "choice" to marry into it, which usually is not a choice considering that these girls seem to be raised to be married off...

[aliasxn]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Doesn't change the fact that she was willing and happy to bear Renjou's children. If that is considered rape, then one might as well consider all the arranged marriages in the world as rape as well.

It's not just the rape, it's the way they treat their women. It’s just wrong.

[MakubeX2]

Originally Posted by vio5555

Overall, I don't know how positive a spin you can really put on it considering that they do seem to be mistreated by the actual wives in some sense as in Souju being abused. Like Benika did say, all of the women are tools of sorts; the actual wives are usually probably jealous of the Kuhouin women and the Kuhouin women don't get to raise their children as their own....

This is an anime-only fact. In the novel, female Kuhouin has always been raised by other female Kuhouin in the inner sanctum.

The novel didn't dive into how the surface marraige works, but it is assume that everything is on paper and the legal wife is kept away from the Inner Sanctum. (Murasaki makes mention that she sees only male Kuhouin visiting the place from time to time when she was there) and perhaps get a good allowance to keep their mouth shut from the media on top of threats (Novel said that anyone who knew too much will be eleminated by the secret service the Kuhouin employ)

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by MakubeX2

This is an anime-only fact. In the novel, female Kuhouin has always been raised by other female Kuhouin in the inner sanctum.

The novel didn't dive into how the surface marraige works, but it is assume that everything is on paper and the legal wife is kept away from the Inner Sanctum. (Murasaki makes mention that she sees only male Kuhouin visiting the place from time to time when she was there) and perhaps get a good allowance to keep their mouth shut from the media on top of threats (Novel said that anyone who knew too much will be eleminated by the secret service the Kuhouin employ)

And the another subtle difference proves that this series shouldn't be judged on heavily by what happens in the novel despite being similar they are both diverging into different paths and provides different depth.

But Ginko also mentioned about the handy eraser group from the Kuhouins .

On the matter of this being an act of rape it obviously depends on the situation. While it is unjustful to be locking up woman for the sole purpose of breeding then masking it all with a grand wedding for another woman, Souju really did seem like he loved Renjou.

But then again, how much of that was brainwashing is unknown but it also seems like he does treat her like a woman, human unlike his bastard son.

[monir]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

And here I thought Benika was the most transparent of all the characters in eps 9.

Reason why she let Murasaki back in the apartment? Because Shinkurou has shown his own will.


Sometimes, the simplest explanation is the right one. She let Kurenai take Murasaki back to the apartment because he simply convinced her to do so.

Do note that believing in others doing what they will also is repeated with Yayoi. There is a reason why she asked 'If any enemy appears before me, it's my job to fight them, right?' After that, she mentions she will be in her usual spot, giving evidence that she isn't sent there by Benika as an order, but that because she herself wants to protect Murasaki. (Yayoi makes a good foil to Kurenai btw, as even though both are protecting Murasaki because of their own free will, Kurenai does it more because of it's his duty while Yayoi is the opposite)

So yeah, there is no greater conspiracy here within Benika. Renjou already said that Ryuuji was already on his way, thus implying that Ryuuji went out to get Murasaki back before Benika even arrived. After all, the Kuhoins did NOT know Benika already planned for the two to leave the country the next day, and as such they might have very well planned to get Murasaki back for good that night.

If it's anyone to blame, it would be Shinkurou, since he was the one who brought the subject of going back to the apartment, and he was the one who convinced Benika to let him do so. I mean yeah, Benika was easier to convince because she hasn't planned for Murasaki to be forever outside, but in the end it's really Shinkurou who allowed Murasaki in danger because of sentimental reasons.

Well said! Absolutely. Pretty much what I've got out of this episode as well.

Shinkurou will need to redeem himself big time. I just wonder if his action will draw any parallelism to what happen to him in his childhood in the context of cleansing of that family's view.

Doesn't change the fact that she was willing and happy to bear Renjou's children. If that is considered rape, then one might as well consider all the arranged marriages in the world as rape as well.

*gives a sheepish side glance*

I raise my hand and acknowledge and appreciate the great term I've come to learn, "cultural differences"... but.... but it doesn't take away the incredible opressive environtment the women in that family grow into. The "ritual" in that family involving its women is pretty extreme. Fortunately human can get used to and adapt to any environment, but when the option is given to grow and prosper and the room for choices by taking of the set-limitation....... well...

Murasaki has tasted it. She now needs Shinkuro to come through for her.

Love this series!

[WanderingKnight]

Murasaki has tasted it. She now needs Shinkuro to come through for her.

I swear I'm not a pervert, but it took me a while to notice the final "for"...

[FlareKnight]

Even if Souju was in love with Renjou its not like we can use that one relationship to generalize everything within that family. After all both parents gave off a feeling of being abnormal. Renjou not being 100% with the Kuhouin's way of doing things.

Considering the way they were raised as well probably wouldn't have seen it in the same way we are looking at it. Emotions certainly can be messed around with depending on the situation at hand.

[ReddyRedWolf]

But in the end though Souju commited suicide because she could not take it anymore.

Murasaki is the last generation of Kuhoin if she disappears or dies it will be the end of their way of life.

Thing is despite being taught manners befiting a princess Kuhoin women never did have power in the family.

They are sex slaves despite all the illusions of tradition.

If Murasaki is to live her life as wants to be she will need considerable influence.

Influence that only Renjou can give.

We all know Murasaki's brother is not the one she wants to be bride of when she grows up.

Murasaki wants to be Shikurou's bride.

[aliasxn]

Originally Posted by monir

Shinkurou will need to redeem himself big time.

Seriously. They gotta make Murasaki's rescue like the last episode of Cowboy Bebop, when Spike takes on the entire martian mafia by himself. Shinkurou goes to where Murasaki is and beats the living crap out of everyone.

[mdauben]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Reason why she let Murasaki back in the apartment? Because Shinkurou has shown his own will.

Perhaps. Then again, perhaps not?

If Benika's first and only goal was to free Murasaki from her fate, letting Shimurou take her back to the appartment was obviously a huge mistake. But what if Benika's goal was more than just freeing her?

Up to this point, Murasaki and Shinurou could perhaps have gotten away with running and hiding. I think in order to free her now, Shikurou is going to have cut loose (pardon the pun!) and leave dead bodies scattered in his wake (including quite possibly some of Murasaki's male family). That's the only way she will ever be really free now; for him to basically destroy the Kuhoin family.

Could that be what Benika's ultimate goal is? To totally destroy that twisted family and free not only Murasaki but future generations of young girls from the same fate?

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by Guppy

If I understood the conversation between Benika and Renjou correctly, Benika's objective was never really about keeping Murasaki out of the Kuhouins' house forever; instead, she only wanted to ensure that Murasaki gained experiences of the outside world which would leave her unable to go back to living the way she was.

That seems to be the only possible explanation for why she's tolerated all Shinkurou's screwups, culminating in allowing him to do such an incredibly stupid thing as to go back with Murasaki.

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

I believe that is was a serious miscalculation on [Benika's] part. Like I've mentioned before she probably put way too much faith in Shinkurou, so much so that she was even willing to make a bet with Renjou. But look at it another way. I think another reason why Benika allowed Shinkurou to take Murasaki back for a last goodbye as it were, was that she wanted this to be a test for shinkurou (and Murasaki).

Much has been made about Shinkuro's alleged weakness and Benika's supposed lapse of judgement, but few deny that Episode 9 was anything but powerful. To inject my own interpretation of events, everything has gone according to the writers' plans, that is, the plot development has served to reinforce a few key themes running throughout the show.

(1)
Kurenai has been a very feminist show in a subversive way. There is a deliberate contrast between the Kuhoin women, who are mere tools to be used and discarded, versus the Samidare women, who are Murasaki's family more than the Kuhoin ever were.

If you think about it, Kurenai has been exploring feminist themes from various angles, through Ginko's repressed desire for Shinkuro, Yuuno's difficulty in accepting her lineage, Tamaki's search for the perfect man and Yayoi's attempts to exert her judgement independently of her superior.

In a way, Kurenai's women (pardon the pun) are living the choices enjoyed by modern women in Japan, while agonising over the limitations of their apparent freedom at the same time.

The events of Ep9 bring this contrast into much sharper focus, as the show reveals, for the first time, the twisted extent of Kuhoin tradition - an ironclad rule that makes prisoners out of their women, all in the name of maintaining their bloodline's purity.

Compared to Murasaki's fate, a relic of feudal Japan, the problems faced by each Samidare woman suddenly become trivial. In a single episode, Kurenai successfully portrayed the sheer stubborn power of wrong-headed tradition in the face of social change. In this sense, the show has actually made an extremely powerful social statement about the way things are in Japan at the moment - a country in drastic need of change, but too stuck in its ossifying traditions to realise what it has to do.

(2)
Amid change and the need to adapt to a different paradigm, it is normal to face great uncertainty. Shinkuro experienced a similar crisis of confidence in this episode.

He might have repeatedly proclaimed his desire to protect Murasaki, but deep down inside, his words must have sounded hollow, even to himself. As late as the evening of Murasaki's capture, he revealed this lack of self-confidence very clearly: "I'm still weak. I don't have confidence in myself, and have no one to rely on."

Ginko's revelation about the true extent of Kuhoin power had shaken Shinkuro's resolve. Much as he wanted to protect Murasaki, he had succumbed to the belief that he was too insignificant to stand against a mighty zaibatsu on his own.

His repeated claims of wanting to protect Murasaki ought therefore to be seen as his attempts to psyche himself, not unlike how a boxer prepares mentally for a prize fight. Unfortunately, Shinkuro went into the match already believing that he had lost. So, it's not surprising that he performed pitifully against the Kuhoin thugs, superpowers not withstanding. He believed he had lost, and that belief became a self-fulfilling prophecy.

(3)
Being a highly intuitive woman, Benika was well-aware of Shinkuro's achilles' heel. ("My pupil has unreliable traits," she confessed to Renjou.) In the meantime, she was also keenly aware of a unique dilemma.

Even before she had set out to fulfil Souju's last wish, Benika must have realised that freeing Murasaki from the Inner Sanctuary would ironically mean exchanging one form of imprisonment with another. What is the point of breaking Murasaki out of the Kuhoin household if it leads to a lifetime of furtive hiding in return?

Recognising this problem, Benika arrived at a plan to kill two birds with one stone. She would try to teach Shinkuro to believe in his own strength while maximising every opportunity to give Murasaki the freedom to live as she chooses, whatever the cost.

Is it an act of good judgement? Probably not. But as Benika admitted from the beginning, she does not make decisions based on logic, but on her feelings instead.

It is the feminine thing to do.

(4)
Benika had actually devised a very daring gambit to deal with the inevitable recapture of Murasaki - she would "poison" the prize. She's a lot smarter than many viewers give her credit for.

Bear in mind that if she so desires, Benika could probably break into the Kuhoin residence anytime she wants to (her "trade secret".) In her conversation with Renjou, she clearly revealed she had not expected to keep Murasaki away from the Kuhoin in perpetuity.

So she chose a different strategy - she'd engage in a duel of faiths instead. She would pit her faith in change against Renjou's belief in the absolute law of his family. She would change the family from within, through the last female of the Kuhoin bloodline.

Her faith in change would be meaningless if she countermanded Shinkuro's decision to return to Samidare for a final farewell. To carry through her plans, Benika had to wholeheartedly believe in Shinkuro's ability to rise above his flaws. Otherwise, she would be no more than a hypocrite who merely pays lip-service to the concept of change.

Hence her advice to Shinkuro: "In the course of a person's life, one must make many choices. Whether that choice is right or wrong, no one knows. That's why people believe that the choices they make are the right ones."

Benika's words could well apply to everyone, Shinkuro, Murasaki, Yayoi, and yes, even Renjou Kuhoin. Life's a gamble, but you must believe fully in every choice you make, whatever the outcome - that is the true lesson she wanted to teach.

In effect, Benika wanted to give Murasaki a taste of freedom, and by extension, she wanted to grant the same boon to her precious disciple.

Again, it's hardly logical. But then again, Benika is all-woman, logic be damned.

(5)
Ultimately though, how is Shinkuro supposed to find resolve out of little hope? His salvation lies with Murasaki. Benika guessed correctly from the beginning that Shinkuro and Murasaki are two lonely individuals who needed each other.

As she expected, Shinkuro would draw strength from his desire to protect Murasaki. But for Shinkuro, protecting Murasaki had become more than just keeping her away from the Kuhoins - it had also become important to protect the sanctity of her childhood innocence as well.

Hence his conviction of the need for Murasaki to make a proper farewell to Samidare. Benika well understood the foolishness of his decision, but on reflection, it goes according to her plan - Shinkuro was finally exerting his own opinion, instead of passively going with the flow, as he nearly did as a child before she rescued him from the clutches of a gun-toting terrorist.

And so she lets him go, against better judgement. The outcome was inevitable anyway - might as well make the most of it.

Interestingly, Shinkuro is not the only person to show this new assertiveness. Even the normally stoical Yayoi felt compelled by events to stick to her own decisions. Not surprisingly, Benika is privately pleased, for the both of them.

The problem for Shinkuro now is that Murasaki has been his crutch. As long as Murasaki proclaimed her desire to be free ("I don't want to die like my mother. I want to...I want to live as freely as I can"), he'd do anything for her. But the moment she walked out of his life, everything crumbles around him. After all, he never truly believed in himself, not without Murasaki's support.

We see the outcome in the previews of Ep10. This will be Shinkuro's moment of reckoning, his moment to discover that he first needs to cherish himself before he can cherish others. Therein lies the true strength he seeks.

[TinyRedLeaf]

It is interesting that my two favourite shows in Spring '08 deal with freedom from two different angles. Kurenai is by far the greater drama of the two, but Toshokan Sensou's passion resonates much more strongly with me, perhaps because of my personal environment.

I had mentioned that Benika chose to "poison" the prize. The metaphor is apt in that she is attempting to destroy the "purity" of Kuhoin tradition - the acceptance of arbitrary laws despite personal objection.

Because of their cloistered lives, Renjou and Souju Kuhoin never realised that they have always had the power to choose. Particularly Souju, who might have caught on a bit towards her tragic end.

Why does Benika believe her gambit can work? Because Murasaki is the last of the Kuhoin females. Should Murasaki choose not to bear her brother's children, what can the Kuhoin do? They would not dare to harm their last woman. As a last resort, Murasaki could even follow her mother's example, and threaten suicide to get her way. Either way, the Kuhoin would be forced to abandon their tradition. Circumstances have changed beyond their closeted imagination.

It remains to be seen if Murasaki would realise the power she wields. Her mother possessed it, but because of a lifetime of subservience, she never knew that an alternative was possible. Murasaki now knows that life exists outside the Inner Sanctuary - a desirable life. She need only to choose.

She chose to return to the Kuhoin. She can choose to walk out again. I suspect we would not need to see Shinkuro pulling a "Charles Bronson" in order to rescue Murasaki.

Ideas. They are powerful weapons indeed.

[monir]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

I swear I'm not a pervert, but it took me a while to notice the final "for"...

Hey... I've got nothing against perverts aka.. people with very active imagination. You've got a healthy, active brain.

And besides, this is the wrong show to get my imagination running in any wrong direction. I've Kanokon for that... speaking of Kanokon.. I need to catch up to it.

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

It is interesting that my two favourite shows in Spring '08 deal with freedom from two different angles. Kurenai is by far the greater drama of the two, but Toshokan Sensou's passion resonates much more strongly with me, ..........

Really!!! I'll take a look into Toshokan Sensou as well.

[DragoonKain3]

Originally Posted by aliasxn

It's not just the rape, it's the way they treat their women. It’s just wrong.

For the record, 'rape' was your word, not mine. The way the Kuhoins treat their women is wrong, yes, you won't see any disagreements with me. But rape? Not really. Just clarifying exactly what that word meant.

In all honesty, I just dislike the word to the nth degree, and as much as possible I try not to use it at all especially in a serious discussion such as this thread. Even it's euphemism (sexual assault) gives me the heeby jeebies. Needless to say, having such a strong word such as 'rape' misused in that manner thoroughly annoys me.

Originally Posted by mdauben

Perhaps. Then again, perhaps not?

If Benika's first and only goal was to free Murasaki from her fate, letting Shimurou take her back to the appartment was obviously a huge mistake. But what if Benika's goal was more than just freeing her?

Up to this point, Murasaki and Shinurou could perhaps have gotten away with running and hiding. I think in order to free her now, Shikurou is going to have cut loose (pardon the pun!) and leave dead bodies scattered in his wake (including quite possibly some of Murasaki's male family). That's the only way she will ever be really free now; for him to basically destroy the Kuhoin family.

Could that be what Benika's ultimate goal is? To totally destroy that twisted family and free not only Murasaki but future generations of young girls from the same fate?

Unless people are arguing that Benika is the next Lelouche/Light who can see 100 steps of their plan in the future, she did not expect Kurenai to want to have Murasaki give a proper farewell to the people of the dorm.

I'm not trying to argue that Benika had some other underlying reason for freeing Murasaki. (Clearly she does, since she mentioned herself that Murasaki's outdoor experience is only temporary) What I'm trying to argue is that the blame for Murasaki's capture lies with Shinkurou. Clearly, Benika had the two ready to be shipped overseas to safety (of which we can safely assume she will be out of reach from the Kuhoins, as its Benika we're talking about), but Kurenai messed that up. It was he who brought up that topic all by himself, and so in the case if he did NOT, Murasaki would've been still free.

The fact that Benika planned for Murasaki to return to the Kuhoins in the near future anyway is irrelevant. After all, plans often change in the long run (the very fact that she actually let Murasaki back to the dorm is proof she actually changes her plan), and Murasaki might not have had to go back to that God awful place if Benika so changes her mind later on. But it was Kurenai's 'plan' that allowed Murasaki's capture NOW, thus removing any chance (however slim it might be) for Murasaki to be forever free from the Kuhoins without resorting to being in contact with them again. And as much as possible, I for one would have Murasaki spend as little time as possible with her relatives, preferably none at all.

[KholdStare]

Hm, I got to admit. Up until episode 9, I have never even thought of the idea of romance developing between the two (mostly due to the story's mood), but I hope that it won't develop.

[Sorrow-K]

I really can't say all too much now, since I'd pretty much be repeating a small fraction of the stuff TinyRedLeaf has already posted. Applause for a fantastic post. (IOU reps).

As far as ep 9 is concerned, I have no problems with the direction the plot went in, and we've had enough posts justifying why this direction makes sense, but I did think the "kidnap" scene could have been executed better. There's no way Shinkurou and Yayoi could have done more than they did... both were soundly beaten. And Benika has almost certainly anticipated and planned for this. Ultimately, the way they handled that scene was a minor blemish, and the rest of the episode was fantastic.

The biggest thing that strikes me about this show, and the thing that's really starting to define it, is the overall commentary on the role of the female, and the life choices she takes. The Kuhoins act as an extreme example, where women aren't people, but merely tools, with each of the other female characters in this forming a range of alternative examples. As TRL points out, this episode also raises this question of choice, and how the path one follow in life is determined by the choices one makes. It's all very, very interesting.

There's so much depth to this show, particularly in the underlying themes. This continues to be a very impressive show.